Found father after almost 30 years, unsure about his personality

[Sappho11]

Hi everyone. I came to this board a couple of years ago because I was in a relationship with a BPD man. I've also had friends diagnosed with the disorder so I've had my share of grief with it.

Lately I've been worried, because I'm seeing a lot of the patterns with my father, and I wanted to run it by you to see whether I'm imagining things or not.

I recently reconnected with my old man after almost three decades (I'm in my early 30s) and thankfully, it was a happy reunion for both sides. My mother and he had a decades-long affair since their youth, which was largely hindered by class difference and the fact that they were living in different countries. My father has always been impulsive, reactive, exuberant. Also very extroverted and warm-hearted to those closest to him. But also prone to self-pity and flighty, albeit non-violent rage.

I never learnt why my mother (who was incredibly resilient psychologically and an eternal optimist) never married him. In large parts, life got in the way, but it seems in the end she just didn't want to. At least that's his side of the story. She was indubitably his great love in any case.

It might be worth mentioning that my father's other daughter (my half-sister) broke off all contact with him when she was in her early 20s.

I can see why. Knowing him now, as an adult, I'm able to set boundaries with him, even though it is difficult. He can be controlling and possessive, though he generally backs off when told no. Growing up with that kind of enmeshment would certainly have been very difficult. He does make efforts to better himself, though I'm never sure whether that's out of genuine concern for my wellbeing or because he's scared of losing me, as I bolster his value within his family structure (today he's married to a happy, lovely, stable, securely-attached woman who has children and grandchildren of her own, and he's often felt alienated because of this; I feel he's often ungrateful towards that lovely, caring woman, by the way).

I'll try to get to the point...

The first weeks after reuniting (I'd last seen him when I was a little girl, four or five years of age) were intense. We exchanged long messages daily, he was incredibly enthusiastic, and when we met in person, it was as if not a second had passed. It was a whirlwind. I was never sure whether this was normal given the circumstances – we were both extremely happy, me finally having a family (I'd thought I was an orphan for most of my life), and my father finally having a daughter again. But I must admit I was also constantly reminded of the lovebombing phase in narcissistic/BPD relationships, because it was just as intense. Already here I do not know whether I'm being overly suspicious or not, and whether it's just my own trauma hindering me to enjoy something truly good.

I noticed that my father has certain outbursts that remind me a lot of the "BPD mask slipping". He'll generally overreact to even the smallest disappointments – usually me setting a normal boundary. Example, I didn't want to stay over at his and his new wife's house because they don't have a guest room and it would have troubled them, and I explained to him that I'd stay at a hotel instead. His response to this was a full-blown, emotional tirade on how quickly all happiness could vanish, that he was useless, that there was nothing to add... We eventually worked it out but it was extremely exhausting. (He also ended up driving to my hotel three times in advance of my stay to make sure it was a decent place, which I found excessive.)

Another example was when he talked about recognising his paternity officially (which I do want too), he mentioned that I'd be changing my name to his. I'm a grown woman, I raised myself, I have my own last name, and I calmly explained to him in detail why it was important for me to keep it. Again, he launched into a horrifying tirade, questioning everything, telling me there was no point in continuing with the recognition because his "name seemed hostile" to me, and that he wouldn't even read anything beyond that point. He also went on at length what a terrible father he was, that he was a complete failure, that he should kill himself, etc. Needless to say, more agitation, also for me. (He eventually calmed down and we worked out that I still would be his daughter despite not carrying his name, but the project has since stalled.)

Whenever he gets into these states, he is completely resistent to any kind of rational argumentation. No logical explanation of why something has nothing to do with him, that it's just a difference of opinion, will reach him. He generally calms down after a day or two, and then he can finally be reasoned with, but only ever after a lot of drama.

One thing that I noticed early, he never, ever apologises. He just brushes things over and moves on. He does feel bad for some of it (you can feel the guilt) but he sweeps it under the rug. His favourite sentence in this case is: "Can we pretend this never happened?" He is 70+ years old so maybe this is a generational thing, I have no idea.

The other day we had a hefty argument about my birthday. I've never celebrated my birthday in my life (as mentioned, I effectively grew up an orphan) and I am uneasy to do so, which I communicated. My father thought it was a good idea to arrange a celebration with one of my cousins whom I don't know, whose birthday it is several days later, and invite about 10 family members whom I also don't know. I'm extremely introverted so this is my horror scenario on a normal day, let alone my birthday which I've never made a fuss about. There will likely be tears and I don't want them to be public, I am very private emotionally and this is a vulnerable issue.

So I told my father I couldn't go through with it, and explained why like above, also stressing that it was not that I didn't like family, that I do want to meet all of them, just little by little, and on a normal day, please! My father responded by saying that these days, he often thinks about how the honourable thing to do for him would be to shoot himself, that this would make things easier for everyone etc.

I was a complete mess that day and had to cancel my business appointments that afternoon. We eventually worked it out, but again, it was exhausting.

The next day, I met him in person (we live 300 miles apart so there's a buffer zone). We spent a great day together. At dinner in a restaurant he suddenly asks: "You know... if I drive off the road tomorrow and kill myself, would you go to my funeral?" I was shocked and said of course! "But there will be many people there, too, you know... and you said you don't like going to events with many people..." I felt manipulated and could hardly speak. Here is this man whose existence I've had to do without for all my life, and he talks about killing himself! He retorted: "You've barely been alive half a life, you have no right to say "all your life"." He can be surprisingly unempathetic (also to strangers, which I've noticed before). The whole thing reminded me so much of BPD arguments that I excused myself to go cry in the restroom. I barely took two minutes and there were messages on my phone: "Where are you?" "I've paid, I'm waiting outside."

So I did my walk of shame back through the restaurant and out to the streets, where he was waiting. He seemed really destabilised. I finally managed to speak and tell him, as calmly as possible, that I was hurt by his careless remarks about killing himself. That I had lived so long without him and now he was using the possibility of his death so nonchalantly! – The worst happened: We had one of those classic word salad arguments. He started berating me for making a scene in the restaurant, that I had stood him up, that he had felt humiliated by the waiter; also that I shouldn't be talking to him like that, that he was my father and that I owed him respect, that I couldn't be calling him an arsehole. I had never done so, I had merely said his words had hurt me. "Yes, and who says hurtful things? Arseholes! So you're calling me an arsehole." I repeated I had only said his words had hurt me, and he abandoned this line of argument. Then the whole familiar phrases started: "You're so sensitive, I can barely say anything around you", "I never said I was going to kill myself" (he did), "that never happened", "calm down" (even though I was calm and he wasn't), and "I'm getting to know a completely different side of you tonight, where is that sweet, tender girl you've been?". Then he made the entire conversation about himself, how he had once planned to kill himself and almost done it. I retorted, "Well, you've done it once, while I've been living with that intention for thirty years because I had no-one, because you weren't there". He had nothing left to say after that. We hugged and he brought me to my train, and then he did the usual thing: gloss things over and pretend they never happened.

One other thing to mention, like my BPD ex-boyfriend, my father always makes a big point of my alleged "fragility". Problem is, I am in fact the opposite of fragile, and my entire life apart from him is a testament to that. I don't know why he keeps bringing it up.

Ever since mentioned meeting/word salad argument, he has noticeably pulled back, and I wonder if I am now in the devaluation phase. Only time will tell and it's making me uneasy.

Sorry for the Tolstoi-sized account of events... but am I going crazy, am I overreacting, or is something wrong here? It's a complicated situation, to be fair, I'm under a lot of stress (I moved to a foreign country six months ago, I don't speak the language perfectly, and all these conversations with my father are done in the new language to boot). But I have this mental list of red flags and I feel the more time passes, the more it grows.

What do I do?

My friends are naturally overwhelmed with the situation too: I mean, there's no manual for suddenly finding your father three decades later when you didn't even think he existed... in the beginning I considered moving (to a less attractive city) to be closer to him, but I now appreciate the advice of one particularly level-headed friend who's always sceptic and who told me to wait and see. (I'm definitely NOT moving now.)

The whole thing smacks of enmeshment at least (which would be a plausible reason for why my half-sister cut off ties) and I guess I'm just looking for some orientation on what to do. I'd love to have a father to confide in but I hesitate with certain things in my past because I'm scared it might get weaponised one day, as has often happened in relationships with disordered people.

What do you think?

[Methuen]

Lately I've been worried, because I'm seeing a lot of the patterns with my father, and I wanted to run it by you to see whether I'm imagining things or not.
… am I going crazy, am I overreacting, or is something wrong here? It's a complicated situation, to be fair, I'm under a lot of stress (I moved to a foreign country six months ago, I don't speak the language perfectly, and all these conversations with my father are done in the new language to boot). But I have this mental list of red flags and I feel the more time passes, the more it grows.

What do I do?

The whole thing smacks of enmeshment at least (which would be a plausible reason for why my half-sister cut off ties) and I guess I'm just looking for some orientation on what to do. I'd love to have a father to confide in but I hesitate with certain things in my past because I'm scared it might get weaponised one day, as has often happened in relationships with disordered people.

From everything you have written here, my advice would be to trust your instincts.  Your dad is not an emotionally stable person if he repeatedly talks about killing himself to the daughter he just found after 30 years.

Perhaps you already know inside why your mother never married him…

You are not crazy. You are not over reacting, and yes it smacks of enmeshment and a disturbed person.

I am sorry.  After finding your father after 30 years, you weren’t expecting this, which sounds like it is coming as a disappointment.

Trust your instincts.  They are protecting you.

As for what to do, I would slow things down.  Don’t spend as much time together, take longer to respond to messages, reduce contact time by just being busy with life and work.  

I would not expressly tell him why.  Instead, just give him the space to self soothe.  He’s an adult.  Remember that. You are not responsible for his feelings.

With all these red flags I would not share anything personal with him.  You are fairly assessing that it could get weaponized against you in the future.  

Friendly and cordial, but with restraint.  

And the next time he says he should kill himself, call him on it and tell him if he says it again you will call the authorities for obvious reasons.  

My friend, it is time to set boundaries.

It is sad and unfortunate, but your concerns are real.

I am so sorry.

[Sappho11]

Thank you Methuen. I think you make a lot of good points.

From everything you have written here, my advice would be to trust your instincts.  Your dad is not an emotionally stable person if he repeatedly talks about killing himself to the daughter he just found after 30 years.

You are right, and I've told him that, too. He's since played it down as a "joke". I'm beginning to think he might not have a personality-, but a mood disorder. He does have severe depressive tendencies that have gone untreated for the better part of 70+ years. I'm not optimistic there'd be any way to convince him to seek treatment now. He blocks any kind of conversation that gets near topics that are vulnerable to him – such as his upbringing (classic: he had a domineering, critical father; my father was the scapegoat of the family; and he replayed that victim pattern in most of his relationships in his adult life) so there's probably nothing one can do.

Perhaps you already know inside why your mother never married him…

Definitely, I realised that early on. My mother wasn't a saint but she was stable. She had a way of talking to my father that didn't enable him; when he went through one of his antics, she'd say: "Oh you my silly little thing", with compassion of course, and laugh. That calmed him down. She just didn't take him seriously (which was good for her emotionally but probably also why she never married him). I don't have that kind of composure though, nor do I feel it is my place.

You are not crazy. You are not over reacting, and yes it smacks of enmeshment and a disturbed person.

I am sorry.  After finding your father after 30 years, you weren’t expecting this, which sounds like it is coming as a disappointment.

Trust your instincts.  They are protecting you.

Thank you. That is very validating. Yes, it is a disappointment. I've spent most of my life in the typical orphan fantasy of "if only I had parents, everything would be perfect". As a result, that made me quite impatient with the vast majority of people who do have them; I always thought, at least they have relatives, why are they complaining? Now I realise how arrogant and stupid that sentiment was. It's a learning curve which hopefully leads me to better empathise with others (and not be such an insufferable self-pitying jerk myself). So that is a major silver lining, too.

As for what to do, I would slow things down.  Don’t spend as much time together, take longer to respond to messages, reduce contact time by just being busy with life and work.  

Probably good advice. I'll be saving hundreds of Euros in train and hotel fares per month, too.

I would not expressly tell him why.  Instead, just give him the space to self soothe.  He’s an adult.  Remember that. You are not responsible for his feelings.

Indeed. I started doing this last week, after the big argument. I told him "I'm going away for two days without internet and my phone, I'll be back on Sunday". To my surprise, he didn't have a meltdown. Or if he did, he didn't show me. I do feel as if he's trying to emotionally punish me by being more withholding now, but I'm trying to ignore it.

With all these red flags I would not share anything personal with him.  You are fairly assessing that it could get weaponized against you in the future.  

Friendly and cordial, but with restraint.  

And the next time he says he should kill himself, call him on it and tell him if he says it again you will call the authorities for obvious reasons.  

My friend, it is time to set boundaries.

It is sad and unfortunate, but your concerns are real.

I am so sorry.

Not at all, thank you for your levelheaded perspective and good advice. It helps.

[Sappho11]

I've noticed that in all the photographs that my father takes of me when we're together, I look like a different person, like a worse version of myself. I've also been ill constantly these past few weeks, on average a day a week with some kind of cold, runny nose, fever, everything. It's like an allergy to dysfunction.

So there's a new layer to the birthday drama. My father has now told me that he'll spend my birthday with his niece after all, who's celebrating hers early on that very day. Of course he's playing it all down as a misunderstanding but I know full well it isn't. So it's either one of two scenarios:

1) He wanted to go to her birthday all along, and all the drama that has ensued was due to the fact that he just couldn't say: "I want to spend your birthday with you but I also want to go to my niece's birthday. Yes you are my daughter, but we've only just met, and I have this years-long tradition with my niece which I don't want to cancel." I wouldn't have been happy but I'd have understood. I'd probably even have gone to this party just to make everyone happy.

I'm disappointed now because of all of the wasted tears and emotions for nothing, the fact that I've now got no plans for my birthday, and that I'll be spending it alone, once again, as usual. I'll try to find something else to do but I already know that self-pity will get the better of me once the day comes around, and I resent that.

Possible scenario 2:

2) He's subconsciously trying to punish me for the recent argument which he started. Actually, the more I think of it, the more that seems likely. I offered him a compromise: To have breakfast together on my birthday and then him going to his niece's party, which only starts at lunch. But he's giving me flimsy excuses for why that's not possible, when in fact, if he wanted to, he would.

He's also been weird in the past couple of days, though I can't exactly put my finger on it. Just some remarks he makes here and there and a general reduction in communication.

Oh, no, now that I type it all out, I do see it. This again... makes me think of a third scenario:

3) He's hoping to get more narcissistic supply from her than from me since I've recently proved I'm not the unconditional source he thought.

So at best, he's emotionally immature and/or depressed; at worst, he's disordered. No telling yet. I'll be on my guard from now on.

Well, here's to another half a lifetime without a father. I've really got to re-read the "How to heal from emotionally immature parents" book, especially the chapter on how to deal with them in the future, a chapter I never thought I'd need.

I'm trying to remind myself it's a bad day, not a bad life. Off to work on my own issues now.

[Methuen]

Maybe his decision to spend your birthday elsewhere provides you with the opportunity to move on and forward.

In one of your posts you mentioned a level headed friend.  Is this a friend you could arrange to do something with on or around your birthday?  They don’t even have to know it’s your birthday.

We once treated two couples friends to a dinner out at a fun restaurant with great food.  We had the best time.  We never told them it was our anniversary until it was over.  They thought it was pretty special.

If that doesn’t fit, then think of something you’ve always wanted to do, and do it.    A class of some kind?  A performance?  A road trip?  Treat yourself and go do it.  It’s a way we can parent ourselves since our parents can’t or didn’t do nice things for us.  

Treat little Sappho11 (your inner child) to something she will enjoy with you.

In the past, I have gone for a hike with a friend on my birthday.  For me, it still recognized the day, and was something I enjoyed doing.  Sometimes it makes sense to honour ourselves intrinsically, even if the external attention we wished for from a parent isn’t there.  

On my last B-day, my daughter picked up my mom and brought her to our house for the dinner H and I cooked on my B-day.  Drama ensued with my mom saying she didn’t want to be with us, and saying she just wanted to die.  She got on the couch and wouldn’t stop complaining and fighting and saying how sick she was, so someone took her home. Then she was happy and felt better.  Go figure.  Sometimes our parent just can’t be present for us.

Honestly, if this is the way your dad is, better to know it now, cut your losses, grieve it, and move on.  

Then you can plan something nice  for your day that he can’t ruin.  

It’s ok to spend your B-day doing something you enjoy and being kind to yourself, or, spend it with friends.  Many people do this for one reason or another. It’s ok.

[Methuen]

 

3) He's hoping to get more narcissistic supply from her than from me since I've recently proved I'm not the unconditional source he thought.

If I was a betting person, I would put my money on this one.

[Notwendy]

This, to me, shows how significant a parent is- that even if there's been no contact with them for 30 years- there's still the desire to connect with that parent, if possible.

But maybe the connection we wish we have isn't possible? For that to happen - the parent needs to be capable of that.

The other aspect of this is that our ideas of our parents are formed when we are children. We don't see them as humans with both strong points and imperfect too- as children we don't have the capacity to understand adult relationships. You have probably had ideas about your father based on what you were able to comprehend.

Now that you have met him, you can see him from the adult perspective. There's no bond formed in childhood- you are as if two adults are meeting. What seems to be going on here is a sort of pulling "Daddy" expectations without having been a father to you and a sense of you meeting his needs. I think your boundary of a hotel makes sense- staying overnight with essentially strangers would not be comfortable unless you knew them better. Dumping his feelings on you.

For those of us who have parents with BPD- it's hard to know what "normal" is when it comes to these relationships. But your gut is telling you this isn't OK. Your heart wants a father- understandable- that is what a child wants but I will also propose that if this man was the kind of father you wish for, he'd have done all he could to find you during this time.

Parents with PD's tend to see their children's purpose as serving their needs. Is that what you see here?

Your father may be genuinely happy to see you, but I think you see his limitations too. I think it's good that you have reconnected in the sense that you can see the father you have from the perspective of an adult. Before, you had a child's version of him. In a way, you see him similarly to how your mother did - not romantically of course- but as a person who can be charismatic, but also has his other side- and perhaps with the understanding why your mother loved him at first- but then decided to keep her distance.

I agree with Methuen- this isn't someone to get close to, or vulnerable with. He seems to have either NPD characteristics or is emotionally immature and limited in his capacity to act in the way you wish a father would act towards you. Your gut tells you to be cautious. I think it's OK to trust your gut with this.

[Sappho11]

Maybe his decision to spend your birthday elsewhere provides you with the opportunity to move on and forward.

In one of your posts you mentioned a level headed friend.  Is this a friend you could arrange to do something with on or around your birthday?  They don’t even have to know it’s your birthday.

We once treated two couples friends to a dinner out at a fun restaurant with great food.  We had the best time.  We never told them it was our anniversary until it was over.  They thought it was pretty special.

If that doesn’t fit, then think of something you’ve always wanted to do, and do it.    A class of some kind?  A performance?  A road trip?  Treat yourself and go do it.  It’s a way we can parent ourselves since our parents can’t or didn’t do nice things for us.  

Treat little Sappho11 (your inner child) to something she will enjoy with you.

In the past, I have gone for a hike with a friend on my birthday.  For me, it still recognized the day, and was something I enjoyed doing.  Sometimes it makes sense to honour ourselves intrinsically, even if the external attention we wished for from a parent isn’t there.  

On my last B-day, my daughter picked up my mom and brought her to our house for the dinner H and I cooked on my B-day.  Drama ensued with my mom saying she didn’t want to be with us, and saying she just wanted to die.  She got on the couch and wouldn’t stop complaining and fighting and saying how sick she was, so someone took her home. Then she was happy and felt better.  Go figure.  Sometimes our parent just can’t be present for us.

Honestly, if this is the way your dad is, better to know it now, cut your losses, grieve it, and move on.  

Then you can plan something nice  for your day that he can’t ruin.  

It’s ok to spend your B-day doing something you enjoy and being kind to yourself, or, spend it with friends.  Many people do this for one reason or another. It’s ok.

Thank you, yes. I am not married or have children, so my father and everyone tied to him are the only family I have. I am not going to renounce that. This might be difficult to understand, but I have been on my own, and by that I mean completely, almost all my life. Trust me when I say it is not a pleasant way to live. You're constantly living on the edge – not just emotionally, but in very practical matters too. People need other people. And right now it is even worse, because I moved to a new country six months ago and so far I do not have a local social net in place yet.

I'm not going to cut ties because the pros still far outweigh the cons. I'm reasonably versed in radical acceptance, so I'll enforce the necessary boundaries with my father. I'll happily spend time with him when he acts like a normal human being, and when he has his tantrums, I won't engage, I'll withdraw. He'll get the picture eventually. And if he doesn't, I'm willing to repeat the process.

Attached to him are also a grandmother, an aunt, an uncle, cousins, all of whom I'd love to get to know... not to mention his lovely wife, my new "step-mother", her daughters and grandchildren. I'm already very fond of both her, the one step-sister I have met and her husband, and I do want all of these people to be in my life.

As for my father's behaviour, I've made an analytical table with all of them and I've figured it out now. We have had about five or six of these bizarre "incidents" so far and his algorithm is always the same whenever I set a boundary with him:

1) React impulsively and hurt and make the matter worse. Be completely resistant to calm explanations or rational argument.

2) Accuse me of attacking him, of being unreasonable and violent, even when I just calmly explain the situation. Favourite methods:

- "You are violent/upset about nothing/too sensitive/capricious“
- "You are hurting me“
- "There are two different Sapphos, a loving one and this one“ etc.

These are always the same, so easy enough to tune out that particular signal with a bit of practice.

3) Pretend to be understanding and sweet to manipulate me into doing what he wants. (Sometimes this step happens earlier.)

4) If I still don't oblige, try to do it with guilt-tripping.

5) If this doesn't succeed and I continue in my calm reasoning, slowly relent and find "reasons" on why he couldn't have agreed earlier, to deflect the shame. Does not accept responsibility for his overreaction, unless it is to self-flagellate in a hope to elicit a change of mind in me.

6) Call everything a "misunderstanding" and ask to gloss it over, to move on as if nothing happened.

7) Be regretful and go back to being sweet and kind. At this point he respects my boundary and it (generally) isn't questioned again.

Dysfunctional? Yes. But there are two key points that make me willing to give him the benefit of the doubt: He never actively tears me down, he doesn't use invective or insult, contrarily, he always stresses he still loves me, but he just sinks into a spiral of self-loathing and fear of abandonment which completely blinds him. After two hours or so, he's out of it and begins thinking clearly again. He then actually accepts the boundary. Apart from these outbursts, he actually is a loving and caring father.

Solution: In the future, state a boundary, let him deal with his emotions for a day, then resume communication the day afterwards. And see whether that improves things. – I'm willing to give it a try. I just feel sorry for his lovely wife because I know he'll chew her ear off in the meantime. She's a strong lady though, I think she can handle it – like my mother, she doesn't enable him.

[Sappho11]

This, to me, shows how significant a parent is- that even if there's been no contact with them for 30 years- there's still the desire to connect with that parent, if possible.

That's very true. I haven't had any other parent during that time either, which makes it worse. Finally, he's the very person I wanted as a father when I was a little girl – so that desire goes back a long time.

But maybe the connection we wish we have isn't possible? For that to happen - the parent needs to be capable of that.

Indeed. I think for the large part he is. He generally is good what concerns sensitive conversations. He can be gentle, caring and kind. I even think that he truly does do his best within his limitations. But a stable, unshakeable bedrock, he is NOT. That's fine.

The other aspect of this is that our ideas of our parents are formed when we are children. We don't see them as humans with both strong points and imperfect too- as children we don't have the capacity to understand adult relationships. You have probably had ideas about your father based on what you were able to comprehend.

Now that you have met him, you can see him from the adult perspective.

Yes, that helps a lot. I've frequently thought that the whole separation might have been a blessing in disguise. I'm certain he was very domineering towards my half-sister who grew up with him and who cut ties with him. If I had grown up with him, I don't think we'd be in touch today either. A child/teenager doesn't have the rational defenses not to internalise everything the parent says. I need to switch out of child mode and into adult mode.

There's no bond formed in childhood- you are as if two adults are meeting.

I might not have stated this, but I do remember him from childhood (even though we didn't spend much time together). When we met again, it was as if not a second had passed, it was unsettling. So the expectation of a father-daughter dynamic is not entirely unreasonable.

What seems to be going on here is a sort of pulling "Daddy" expectations without having been a father to you and a sense of you meeting his needs.

Yes, that's definitely a problem.

I think your boundary of a hotel makes sense- staying overnight with essentially strangers would not be comfortable unless you knew them better. Dumping his feelings on you.

For those of us who have parents with BPD- it's hard to know what "normal" is when it comes to these relationships. But your gut is telling you this isn't OK. Your heart wants a father- understandable- that is what a child wants but I will also propose that if this man was the kind of father you wish for, he'd have done all he could to find you during this time.

It's a long and sad story but it would indeed have been impossible to find me. My father lived in one country, my mother and I in another, and when she passed away, I was sent to a third with people who actively undermined him finding me. My last name was also changed several times by foster and step families. To boot, this was all during a time before the Internet was what it is today. He did try to find me but he failed, which is also a source of tremendous guilt and shame for him. I'm not making excuses but here he doesn't deserve all the blame.

Parents with PD's tend to see their children's purpose as serving their needs. Is that what you see here?

There's definitely a strong component of that. It's not entirely malignant however. My father has been struggling to give meaning to his life, and has openly talked about it. Clearly it's not healthy for me to be the sole reason for his existence, which I have told him. He always does back off when I tell him something is too much (he's old now and I do think he's learnt from the case with my half-sister). If he manages to keep this up, I do believe a good relationship is possible.

Your father may be genuinely happy to see you, but I think you see his limitations too. I think it's good that you have reconnected in the sense that you can see the father you have from the perspective of an adult. Before, you had a child's version of him. In a way, you see him similarly to how your mother did - not romantically of course- but as a person who can be charismatic, but also has his other side- and perhaps with the understanding why your mother loved him at first- but then decided to keep her distance.

I agree with Methuen- this isn't someone to get close to, or vulnerable with. He seems to have either NPD characteristics or is emotionally immature and limited in his capacity to act in the way you wish a father would act towards you. Your gut tells you to be cautious. I think it's OK to trust your gut with this.

Thank you.

[Sappho11]

It just occurs to me that none of what I'm saying might be applicable, based on the simple fact that I have no idea what a normal parent-child relationship is like, what a child can reasonably expect from a parent (especially an adult child), and vice versa. Are there any resources for this where one can read up on this?

[Sappho11]

I've turned off notifications for his text messages and that has already done me a world of good. I still check them, but when it's convenient. I should probably find a similar way to tune out his emails, maybe hide them in a subfolder or automatically mark them as read. That way I only see them when he's long cooled down and I spare myself endless explanation matches. Hopefully.

[SinisterComplex]

Perhaps some of these tools will be of use to you ;-)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329745.0

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Sappho11]

Thank you SC, I'll have a look!

So something curious happened. After ripe deliberation, I wrote my father an email asking him to in the future tell me things directly instead of trying to influence me indirectly. I told him that I loved him and that he had every right to utter his wishes flat out, without having to dissemble them. That I would not always fulfil them but that I'd endeavour to do so if it was within my own possibilities. That his recent actions caused me a lot of grief that could have been avoided, that this certainly wasn't his intention, that he was probably only afraid of me saying "no". That he would have to learn to deal with that because me saying "no" was always a possibility since we're both adults, but that it didn't mean I love him less, it just means I have a different view of things in certain regards.

I expected a meltdown over this in BPD fashion, but what happened?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He completely ignored the email (we've exchanged normal, daily-life texts since). The only messages of mine he ignores are the ones that touch upon his childhood in some regard, especially when I hint at possible wounds he carries from that time. He's usually a huge extrovert but he goes all quiet when that happens. From what I gather, he grew up in a household with a domineering, criticising father who constantly tore him down and sabotaged his aspirations. My father was the oldest son, but sensitive and artistic, and his stern father seems to have tried to beat that out of him (we're talking about an upbringing in an impoverished, polluted industrial ghetto in the 1950s). So my father's coping strategy, to this day, is to pretend not to have any wishes, instead trying to either strongarm (in his profession, where he was quite successful) or coax (in his private life) people into doing what he wants.

I'm beginning to think my father isn't personality-disordered, he just has a lot of stuff in his own past that he never faced up to. I'm not his therapist and won't attempt to drag it out of him, nor attempt to "cure" him. That's his business. My business is to set boundaries against behaviour I don't tolerate.

Takeaway from the story: Never thought I'd be grateful about my horror relationship with my diagnosed BPD ex. The psychology deep dive that ensued is sure coming in handy now.

I guess there's always a silver lining.

[Notwendy]

People can have traits that may overlap with those of PD's while not meeting the criteria for diagnoses. I think the main thing is to pay attention to your feelings in the relationship and have boundaries when you feel you need to.

I don't think anyone has suggested you don't have a relationship with him- I think it's more about boundaries and how close a relationship. Time will tell on this one. I think it's good that you have reconnected- so that you get to know him. You've wondered about him since you were a child. You will now get to know who he is.

In some way, the feeling of wanting a parent can happen even if that parent is present. I don't think it's the same as how you have felt with an absent parent- but I think there's similarities- because a disordered parent can also be absent emotionally and behaviorally due to their disorder. My father has acted as a parent to me but my mother doesn't act like a mother. So I would notice how other mothers acted with their children. I understand the wish you have for a relationship with your father.

As you know, any relationship involves both people. BPD is on a spectrum and for my mother, the extent of her BPD limits her relationships with anyone. Your father will be able to relate to you to the extent that he can- whether or not he has a PD. You've already seen his reluctance to discuss some topics- maybe he will in time and maybe not- but you are aware that this is off the table for him now.

I think you are right that the relationship tools we have are helpful in relationships- you gained experience with your ex.

[Sappho11]

More drama.

My father wants to legally acknowledge me as his daughter, but there have been roadblocks. I have nationality A, was born in country B, and my birth certificate still lists my mother's ex-husband as my father. Country B is unwilling to erase that guy from the record which makes the formal acknowledgment impossible in Country C, where I live and which is my father's home and nationality.

My father, on the other hand, thought everything would be super-easy and kept going on for months on how this legal acknowledgment was his absolute priority, that he'd do everything to make it happen, etc. And I do believe him: I think he does really want that. Frankly he didn't know what he was up against. When he realised that there would be difficulties, he nearly immediately threw in the towel (but not without writing me a morose two-page letter on how disappointing this all was).

Thanks to Herculean efforts and pulling every trick in the book with my home country's authorities, I've managed to clear the massive roadblocks myself: Country A is now even willing to furnish me with a new birth certificate even though I wasn't even born there. You've read that right. This document can then be used to legalise the paternity in my father's (and my current) country. In other words, I've made the impossible possible.

My father only needs to do two things: get a passport and an international birth certificate for himself, something that's easily done with taking a short trip to his local registrar's office. And guess what! He's now bickering about having to go through these banal, low-effort formalities. The most bizarre aspect of this is his unexplained refusal to get a passport. I've seen the ID he uses – it's his driving licence from the 1960s. I kid you not. I know he's concerned about his age but it's like he's unwilling to face up to the fact that his youth has passed and he happens to be a septuagenarian now. A bit like a reverse Dorian Gray. His vanity is such that it is now actively in the way of what he described as his "greatest wish" for which he "would do anything".

That reminds me, one of the first thing that struck me as unpleasant about him was his habit of making rude remarks about passersby and their looks, their age, their weight. I once reprimanded him to at least do it quietly, since those people have feelings, too. His cheery response: "Yeah, but I don't care." That was the first thing I found concerning.

He had about ten years in his youth where he was quite good-looking, but he's mostly been overweight, overworked, depressed and all that has left traces. Some old folks look charming and cute. My father's wife does. He doesn't. Yet he goes around arbiting moral judgement on the subject of physical beauty whenever he can. It's probably his own insecurity talking but that's no excuse.

Anyway... after the birthday drama, I've lately dialled back communication. Also because I have a massive backlog of work to clear up, which will probably take me until early December. I've told my father that. Yet every day he keeps asking: "Still so much work?" Yesterday he even sent me a long text telling me that I should tell him if she should stop writing, if he was getting on my nerves, and so on and so forth... it's exhausting.

I'm getting the sense that if I don't constantly and effusively communicate with him, he'll change his mind. At this point, I'm beginning to wonder why I am going through all of this trouble. If he does, so be it. I'm done with these antics.

[Sappho11]

Also, regarding the birthday, one of my favourite friends happens to be passing through town that day, so we're going to meet up. I was very happy about this and told my father. I got the sense that he resented that. It did remind me of my BPD ex-boyfriend though: unwilling to inconvenience himself for me, and then being annoyed when other people do.

And I'm having the same thoughts again: Maybe I'm being ungrateful... he's doing a lot of other things... etc. etc. The thing that keeps me grounded are friends who see the whole thing with a healthy dose of scepticism. The problem is that I still have absolutely no benchmark for what a normal reciprocal parent-child relationship looks like.

[Sappho11]

Sometimes I wonder whether it is I who is the crazy one.

My birthday is coming up, and in the drama that unfolded, my father once asked whether he could at least send me flowers. I didn't reply because it was asked in a flurry of other questions, because I didn't like the idea and because I knew he'd have another meltdown if I turned it down. I mostly didn't like it for practical reasons (I own no vase and have nowhere to put a big bouquet in my tiny metropolitan apartment), but most of all I resented it because it seemed it wasn't a gesture of kindness, but something for him to assuage his guilt about the whole birthday drama, as well as something to potentially hold over my head later.

This morning (it isn't my birthday) he texts me to stay in at morning, because "it is cold until the afternoon". I thought that was odd but he often has odd ideas.

Turns out he was trying to get me to stay home to receive a delivery of flowers. You do not believe what a soap opera such a simple thing can turn into.

I should preface this by saying that I hate having my day interrupted by unannounced visitors, I hate talking on the phone, especially to strangers, and after working 70+ hour work weeks lately, I just wanted to be alone and in peace. My father knows all of this.

Nonetheless, he tried to send me flowers, but of course that didn't pan out. I live in a big city, deliverers are usually both exploited and poorly educated here, and mixups happen all the time. On top of that, the delivery guy had the wrong street (likely my father's fault, as there's another similarly-named one nearby and they're easily mixed up). I spent half an hour on the phone with this guy who spoke neither the local language nor English, unsuccessfully trying to tell him that he had the wrong street. It also tied me to the house for hours, waiting to see if he'd show up or not. Eventually I got so frustrated and told him "just keep the flowers, I don't want them anyway, just tell them you've delivered them".

Of course that's not how it went down, and instead I ended up in a bizarre loop trying to mediate between my father (who was in a rage at this point about the innocent florist and delivery guy), the poor florist and the hapless delivery guy for several hours. In between, a dozen phone calls, just as many messages on my voicemail, and a phone that doesn't stop ringing. Introvert nightmare. I've now turned off my phone because I'm frankly overwhelmed. The day started off nice and quiet, but the whole thing stirred considerable anxiety in me.

The crown of this was my father: "Can you take a picture of what you've received? I want to see whether it's what I ordered." Followed by complaints of how terrible he was feeling physically today (unrelated to this, and due to actions which were entirely his fault).

At this point I frankly just want to be left alone.

[Methuen]

Classic.  Just classic.

My metaphor for this type of chaos is being in the eye of a storm.

Sometimes I wonder whether it is I who is the crazy one.

I think the BPD behaviors make us all a bit crazy. But remember that "crazy" didn't start with you in this case.  That's where we have to stop and check ourselves.  We can't let the blame/gaslighting win.

I can just totally relate.  Not to a flower to delivery, but a lifetime of other incidents causing the same chaos and frustration and distress and energy sucking drain you have just described.

Everybody has to respond in their own way.  I would never suggest what someone else should do, as everybody's situations and personalities are completely unique.

What I would do (knowing nothing else but what you've described) is block him until you are feeling better.  It is time to look after your own nervous system (on/around your birthday). This is self care.

1) He asked if he could send flowers.  You never replied.  The implied answer to his question, is "no" because he asked and you never gave consent.

2) You are not obligated to send a picture of the flowers.  Whose need would this be meeting?  Not yours, and it's your birthday.  If I substitute my mom for your dad in this story, if she is in a rage, it's probably because she already spoke to the florist and knows something is amiss.  Why else would she be in a rage?  Communicating with her at this point would only add fuel to the fire.  pwBPD like a big fight.  I am not obligated to have that difficult and emotional conversation with her just because she sent flowers I never consented to (since she asked).

At this point I frankly just want to be left alone.

I think it's good that you acknowledge this.  Honour yourself, practice self-compassion, and let yourself be alone, and do things that calm you, relax you, and help you to get back to your baseline.

If things change, and you decide you want to talk to your dad, that's ok too.  

Look inside, and do whatever is best for little Sappho.  She needs some parenting and nurturing from big Sappho right now.

[Methuen]

Another thought, this is exactly the kind of thing that gets me ruminating.  Ruminating is a way to try to resolve the chaos, but it's kinda hard to resolve anything where BPD is involved, so I personally find ruminating more harmful than helpful.

Maybe you don't do this, and if you don't, hats off to you because you've got things figured out.  If you don't ruminate, you can stop reading now.  If you do, I'm working hard to address this in myself, so I'm going to go out on a limb and share a couple of things, because I don't want your birth day/weekend to be ruined by this.

1) Grounding exercise.  Someone on this board a while back share 5-4-3-2-1.  I find it helps interrupt the ruminating somewhat.

2) Tapping.  There have been conversations about "tapping" therapy.  I googled this recently, and tried it yesterday (there's a pdf online I printed off that shows the meridians and tapping points).  It worked for me.  Again, it interrupted the ruminating, especially since I preceded it with the grounding 54321 exercise.

3) Yesterday my T suggested another strategy.  She said to write down (or word process) what happened and my resulting feelings.  Get it "all out". Then crumple up the paper, and put it at the back of top corner of the highest and most inconvenient shelf in my kitchen.  Every time I start ruminating again, I can only ruminate if I go get the crumpled piece of paper and take it out.  You get the idea.  Might not work for everyone.  But I like this.  I'm short, and I'll be darned if I'm going to go get a ladder every time I find myself sinking into ruminating. 

I just thought I would share.

I hope you are feeling better, and can enjoy the rest of your weekend.

[Notwendy]

The creepy part of this is that the interaction on his part is coupled with an emotional need on his part. Gifts from my BPD mother are like this. So the interaction feels creepy.  She rarely sends me anything and actually it's more comfortable for me when she doesn't.

I think there's some good that is coming out of your reconnecting with your father in that- I think if you had not done this- you'd have this imaginary father and wondering what he's like. Now, you have the opportunity to know who he is and while it's a possibly difficult situation- the boundaries are yours to decide on. Before this- you were a child- he made the choices and you had no say in this. The choice of how much contact to have with him is your choice now too.

[Sappho11]

Classic.  Just classic.

My metaphor for this type of chaos is being in the eye of a storm.

Thank you. That's exactly what it feels like.
 

I think the BPD behaviors make us all a bit crazy. But remember that "crazy" didn't start with you in this case.  That's where we have to stop and check ourselves.  We can't let the blame/gaslighting win.

Agreed. I've been through this scenario with several people now. It's time to apply the lessons learnt.

I can just totally relate.  Not to a flower to delivery, but a lifetime of other incidents causing the same chaos and frustration and distress and energy sucking drain you have just described.

I honestly feel foolish because why is such a simple thing so complicated and energy-consuming? But I guess that's just the nature of dysfunction. With my BPD high school friend and BPD ex, it was the same thing – the smallest things becoming huge problems.

Everybody has to respond in their own way.  I would never suggest what someone else should do, as everybody's situations and personalities are completely unique.

What I would do (knowing nothing else but what you've described) is block him until you are feeling better.  It is time to look after your own nervous system (on/around your birthday). This is self care.

I've turned off his notifications and I only check whether he's written a couple of times a day. That has already helped.

1) He asked if he could send flowers.  You never replied.  The implied answer to his question, is "no" because he asked and you never gave consent.

2) You are not obligated to send a picture of the flowers.  Whose need would this be meeting?  Not yours, and it's your birthday.  If I substitute my mom for your dad in this story, if she is in a rage, it's probably because she already spoke to the florist and knows something is amiss.  Why else would she be in a rage?  Communicating with her at this point would only add fuel to the fire.  pwBPD like a big fight.  I am not obligated to have that difficult and emotional conversation with her just because she sent flowers I never consented to (since she asked).
 I think it's good that you acknowledge this.  Honour yourself, practice self-compassion, and let yourself be alone, and do things that calm you, relax you, and help you to get back to your baseline.

If things change, and you decide you want to talk to your dad, that's ok too.  

Look inside, and do whatever is best for little Sappho.  She needs some parenting and nurturing from big Sappho right now.

Thank you. All very helpful. I'm often at a loss because I grew up in dysfunctional foster homes (all much worse than this scenario)  and I really have no idea on what is reasonable or not.

[Sappho11]

Another thought, this is exactly the kind of thing that gets me ruminating.  Ruminating is a way to try to resolve the chaos, but it's kinda hard to resolve anything where BPD is involved, so I personally find ruminating more harmful than helpful.

Maybe you don't do this, and if you don't, hats off to you because you've got things figured out.  If you don't ruminate, you can stop reading now.  If you do, I'm working hard to address this in myself, so I'm going to go out on a limb and share a couple of things, because I don't want your birth day/weekend to be ruined by this.

1) Grounding exercise.  Someone on this board a while back share 5-4-3-2-1.  I find it helps interrupt the ruminating somewhat.

2) Tapping.  There have been conversations about "tapping" therapy.  I googled this recently, and tried it yesterday (there's a pdf online I printed off that shows the meridians and tapping points).  It worked for me.  Again, it interrupted the ruminating, especially since I preceded it with the grounding 54321 exercise.

3) Yesterday my T suggested another strategy.  She said to write down (or word process) what happened and my resulting feelings.  Get it "all out". Then crumple up the paper, and put it at the back of top corner of the highest and most inconvenient shelf in my kitchen.  Every time I start ruminating again, I can only ruminate if I go get the crumpled piece of paper and take it out.  You get the idea.  Might not work for everyone.  But I like this.  I'm short, and I'll be darned if I'm going to go get a ladder every time I find myself sinking into ruminating. 

I just thought I would share.

I hope you are feeling better, and can enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Also thank you for this. Grounding exercises are good. I've been doing Zen meditation for most of my adult life which has a similar effect.

My method when I'm upset is usually to open a word processor and type "What am I feeling?" Then I type out adjectives, stream-of-consciousness style. Followed by: "Why am I feeling this way?" and describe the situation. Usually it turns out that it isn't just one little thing, it's a dozen little things that add up to a big thing. Lastly, "Is this reasonable?" and "Solution:" where I try to look at my interpretation of things objectively and figure out a way to proceed. Agency helps a lot.

[Sappho11]

The creepy part of this is that the interaction on his part is coupled with an emotional need on his part. Gifts from my BPD mother are like this. So the interaction feels creepy.  She rarely sends me anything and actually it's more comfortable for me when she doesn't.

Yes, exactly. Seeing this from the other side explains so much to me, though: Why I don't get along with other "nice" people of the same sort, and also how I myself made the same mistake for years. The line between being giving and being emotionally needy is very thin, and sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference.

I think there's some good that is coming out of your reconnecting with your father in that- I think if you had not done this- you'd have this imaginary father and wondering what he's like. Now, you have the opportunity to know who he is and while it's a possibly difficult situation- the boundaries are yours to decide on. Before this- you were a child- he made the choices and you had no say in this. The choice of how much contact to have with him is your choice now too.

There's a lot of good coming out of reconnecting with my father. He can be very sweet and loving. I'm just beginning to wonder whether that was a temporary state.

[Sappho11]

So my birthday came and went. My father sent me a text first thing in the morning, wishing me a happy birthday. I said thank you and wished him a nice day. Half an hour later: "So were the chocolates and the flowers delivered?" Bloody hell, not this again. I told him I hadn't received anything. He replied with a rant, that he was really angry, that he had ordered a big bouquet of colourful flowers with a box of chocolates, that he would make a complaint etc.

I didn't reply. I knew he would be out pre-celebrating his niece's upcoming birthday with his niece and the rest of the family instead so I didn't expect any other messages that day anyway.

My own day was so-so. I met up with one of my closest friends, who happened to be passing through town that day (he still lives in my home country). We hadn't seen one another for over half a year, so that was nice. He's not the sentimental type and had no idea it was my birthday (which is fine, he's affectionate and a great friend in other ways) and, after having asked if I would mind, brought his new girlfriend along. The three of us actually had a nice chat over coffee, but I left them to their own business after an hour or two (he'd flown in for her sake after all).

When I got home, I got quite sad and uncharacteristically lonely, which I'd already anticipated. I tried to cheer myself up in the usual ways: making a decent meal, taking it easy, completing simple to-dos, watching a couple of videos on a cheer-up playlist I've made for such situations. That worked a little. After that, I took one of the best naps of my life. I hadn't even realised how tired I've been lately, I laid down and I was out like a light within ten seconds.

When I got up in the late afternoon, I realised I had received a few birthday messages from several people, which was nice.

At night, my friend from earlier that day called, asking me what I thought about his new girlfriend. (He'd been a tremendous source of support when I was with my BPD ex and he himself has a years-long battle of living with a BPD girlfriend behind him, so we're kind of each other's unbiased lookout against personality-disordered love interests now.) We had a good chat, and when we said good-bye, it slipped my tongue that his stop in town had been a nice birthday surprise today. I felt really silly – that I should have kept it to myself!

Far from that causing a big drama, my friend actually was shocked: "It was WHAT today? Oh my God. I didn't know!" As I've said, he's not the type to celebrate birthdays, he doesn't even celebrate his own. I ended up having a good laugh because last year, we had met up on my birthday for a work thing and he'd suggested to go to a French restaurant (with his little son in tow) in the evening. I'd thought at the time that it was a special gesture on his part, but it now turns out it was really just a coincidence! I guess you know you've got a good friend when you think they're giving you a birthday surprise but in fact it's just them being nice on a normal day.   Anyway, he was super-embarrassed even though I told him he didn't have to be.

Three minutes later, his girlfriend texts me: "[Our friend] just wrote me – oh my God, Happy Birthday! We should have celebrated today! If it's not too late for you, I could come over with some birthday cake?" I was close to tears when I read that. All day I'd been walking around with this nebula of vague discontent and feeling overlooked, then I beat myself up for eventually having mentioned it – and here was someone not belittling it, but acknowledging it and doing something about it. It was already quite late and I didn't want to trouble the girlfriend, so I ended up arranging going for drinks with her the next day.

No news from my father after his rant about the flowers and chocolates, no "How was your day?" "What did you end up doing?" (which he often used to send even on normal days), no nothing. I wished him a good night and he replied "good night" two hours later and sent a cool "good morning and have a nice day" this morning. I replied "you too" to which he responded telling me he would try, he'd been a lot of pain on Saturday and Sunday etc. When I asked him how he was today, he left me on read. No answer. I'm wondering whether he's really too ill to write (unlikely) or whether I'm in the devaluing phase now.

Also, pure conjecture, but I get the sense that he isn't asking about my day because it would make him feel small and even more guilty. He's often been strangely offended when I tell him about my friends, even though he tries to hide it. I just always feel that something is off.

It's a mess. I'm just happy for the people in my life who I know I can rely on. I try to remind myself that I'm an adult, that none of this is life-threatening – even if the worst were to happen, and, I don't know, I lost my livelihood, it would never again be a matter of mere survival because I 1) can rely on myself (and have, for most of my life) and 2) have at least four people in my life, one of them the friend above, who'd be willing to help in their own idiosyncratic ways.

...I really need to read that darn "Emotionally Immature Parents" book again.

[Sappho11]

From another angle, it just occurred to me that my friend, who's in the picture that it's been difficult with my father lately, but who is completely unaware of the whole birthday drama, might have put two and two together and figured out that if I wasn't celebrating my birthday with my only surviving family whom I found after almost thirty years of separation, something must be wrong. That would also explain my friend going out of his way to ask his girlfriend to be the harbinger of cake, since he's usually not the type for overtly emotional gestures. Also quite a gutsy thing to ask a new girlfriend, and lovely for the girlfriend to be so understanding and accommodating, too.

Looking at the matter from my friend's point of view: If he or any of my friends had been in the same situation, they had dropped everything to go celebrate their long-lost father's birthday, but the father hadn't so much as made time for them on theirs (even though they would even have travelled to be in his part of the country and had organised everything to do so), my reaction would have been a "What the  !" to put it mildly.

Perhaps I should look at things from the "What if this happened to a friend" angle more often.

[Notwendy]

Seems to me that you have a great friend and - that girlfriend who stepped in to help make your day a bit brighter- sounds like two kind people found each other.

I can't say what is going on with your father but my BPD mother can also be very nice and charming but a relationship with her involves meeting her own needs of source. She has sent checks to my kids. They won't accept them anymore since learning she has financial issues- but the checks  came with the expectation that they'd contact her. It's a mixed thing- they are polite - they know that good manners means saying thank you for a gift- but there's a sense of obligation there, somehow, beyond that.

Kind of like sending you flowers and candy. Nothing wrong with that ( even if you didn't want them- the act of sending isn't of itself a problem) it's that somehow this gesture didn't sit right with you- there was more to it - an obligation, wanting credit- and you could sense that.

Both your friend and your father did something we consider to be "nice" for your birthday. It felt different when your friend did it.

[livednlearned]

Happy belated birthday Sappho11  

If it's any consolation, I grew up in a home with two parents and my mother treated birthdays like an afterthought. She even complains when people celebrate birthdays. Last time she was here was my birthday and they must've realized at the last minute. In front of me they pulled out a card with no envelope, an impersonal kind that they hadn't signed. Honestly, it would feel better for them to not acknowledge my birthday than go through a charade like that.

I don't like birthdays because of the emotional pressure, but I do have a close friend who loves to give gifts and she's beyond thoughtful. She's a bit younger than my parents and if I'm being honest she's probably more of a mother figure than friend. She's hosted my parents over the years when they're on long road trips and my mother feels very threatened by her. I imagine your father may have some of this, too. He can't show up, so when other people do, he doesn't like that it shows up his own shortcomings. My mother wants the relationship I have with this friend, but because she lacks a mature personality, and she doesn't really understand intimacy, she is always out in the cold looking in. Sometimes I think it makes her mad when other people acknowledge my birthday in thoughtful ways. She apparently told my aunt to stop sending me gifts because then all the aunts had to send something.

I'm often at a loss because I grew up in dysfunctional foster homes (all much worse than this scenario)  and I really have no idea on what is reasonable or not.

I get the sense from your posts that you have excellent instincts and do know what's reasonable. It might take you some processing to get there and sort through the b.s., and you may doubt yourself, but given what you've had to survive, you're good at this. I also sense you've learned a lot from extricating yourself from your BPDx even though I'm sorry for what you had to endure to gain those bits of wisdom. I married and divorced a man with BPD and would not wish that hell on anyone.

Is it more about what to do with the information you have? Now that you know your father is emotionally immature, and probably can't consistently be a proper parent, where to go from here?

That's a similar question I have had. It took me many years to figure out how to keep myself safe so I could have a relationship on my terms with a family that has no regard for my safety or well-being. It shows up in so many dysfunctional ways that sometimes I just have to unplug my head to get a little distance and return to my own planet.

Last time I saw my mother she was winding up for a bit of weeping, which is her #1 favorite go-to when she has an agenda for me. I very politely ignored her. It's awful to look at a crying woman in her 80s and feel nothing, but her tears have no impact on me emotionally after years of using tears as a ploy to essentially put me in harm's way.

I am working on having self-love for myself in moments when someone who is supposed to love me pulls emotional stunts that repeatedly cause me harm. I no longer feel crippling guilt -- I've healed that part. But I still feel a complex bunch of emotions that I wish I could manage more ... effectively. I don't want to ignore how I feel, and I also don't want to second-guess myself. I'm not sure that conflict will ever go away, though.  

I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe it's more simple to say that I want a relationship with my dysfunctional parents, and I know they aren't going to change, and I also want there to be some kind of peace with the decision, which might be asking a bit much. I still have to interact with them, I just bring all of my skills and the whole tool belt with me when we engage. Venting is part of that but not ruminating or wishful thinking. I'm glad you have a good friend who gets what you've been through and is there for you. I have that in my H whose parents were even more toxic than mine. We can laugh about some of the behaviors that are absurd, but more importantly, he is there when I'm straight up angry, validating my outrage. And vice versa.

You also have all of us here. To a person, people are going to understand the dilemma, including how to navigate the emotions when a parent is failing at their job.

[Sappho11]

Seems to me that you have a great friend and - that girlfriend who stepped in to help make your day a bit brighter- sounds like two kind people found each other.

Agreed. I have confidence in the girl and I hope my friend doesn't mess up 

I can't say what is going on with your father but my BPD mother can also be very nice and charming but a relationship with her involves meeting her own needs of source. She has sent checks to my kids. They won't accept them anymore since learning she has financial issues- but the checks  came with the expectation that they'd contact her. It's a mixed thing- they are polite - they know that good manners means saying thank you for a gift- but there's a sense of obligation there, somehow, beyond that.

Kind of like sending you flowers and candy. Nothing wrong with that ( even if you didn't want them- the act of sending isn't of itself a problem) it's that somehow this gesture didn't sit right with you- there was more to it - an obligation, wanting credit- and you could sense that.

Both your friend and your father did something we consider to be "nice" for your birthday. It felt different when your friend did it.

Yes, thank you. Excellent point. And very true.

[Sappho11]

Happy belated birthday Sappho11  

Thank you!

If it's any consolation, I grew up in a home with two parents and my mother treated birthdays like an afterthought. She even complains when people celebrate birthdays. Last time she was here was my birthday and they must've realized at the last minute. In front of me they pulled out a card with no envelope, an impersonal kind that they hadn't signed. Honestly, it would feel better for them to not acknowledge my birthday than go through a charade like that.

I don't like birthdays because of the emotional pressure, but I do have a close friend who loves to give gifts and she's beyond thoughtful. She's a bit younger than my parents and if I'm being honest she's probably more of a mother figure than friend. She's hosted my parents over the years when they're on long road trips and my mother feels very threatened by her. I imagine your father may have some of this, too. He can't show up, so when other people do, he doesn't like that it shows up his own shortcomings. My mother wants the relationship I have with this friend, but because she lacks a mature personality, and she doesn't really understand intimacy, she is always out in the cold looking in. Sometimes I think it makes her mad when other people acknowledge my birthday in thoughtful ways. She apparently told my aunt to stop sending me gifts because then all the aunts had to send something.

That sounds terrible. I'm sorry you had to grow up like that. I get why a perfunctory gesture would be even worse – because it's not performed for your sake, but theirs. I'm glad you had a good friend who was able to fill in the role of a mother a bit.

I get the sense from your posts that you have excellent instincts and do know what's reasonable. It might take you some processing to get there and sort through the b.s., and you may doubt yourself, but given what you've had to survive, you're good at this. I also sense you've learned a lot from extricating yourself from your BPDx even though I'm sorry for what you had to endure to gain those bits of wisdom. I married and divorced a man with BPD and would not wish that hell on anyone.

Is it more about what to do with the information you have? Now that you know your father is emotionally immature, and probably can't consistently be a proper parent, where to go from here?

That's it exactly. I think I'm going through a kind of grieving process without consciously realising it. I'm not really losing a father – I've spent my entire life without him anyway – but I'm definitely losing the lifelong idea that everything would be well, if I only had a living relative. It was a nice fantasy to cling to and now needs to be let go.

That's a similar question I have had. It took me many years to figure out how to keep myself safe so I could have a relationship on my terms with a family that has no regard for my safety or well-being. It shows up in so many dysfunctional ways that sometimes I just have to unplug my head to get a little distance and return to my own planet.

Last time I saw my mother she was winding up for a bit of weeping, which is her #1 favorite go-to when she has an agenda for me. I very politely ignored her. It's awful to look at a crying woman in her 80s and feel nothing, but her tears have no impact on me emotionally after years of using tears as a ploy to essentially put me in harm's way.

I am working on having self-love for myself in moments when someone who is supposed to love me pulls emotional stunts that repeatedly cause me harm. I no longer feel crippling guilt -- I've healed that part. But I still feel a complex bunch of emotions that I wish I could manage more ... effectively. I don't want to ignore how I feel, and I also don't want to second-guess myself. I'm not sure that conflict will ever go away, though.  

I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe it's more simple to say that I want a relationship with my dysfunctional parents, and I know they aren't going to change, and I also want there to be some kind of peace with the decision, which might be asking a bit much. I still have to interact with them, I just bring all of my skills and the whole tool belt with me when we engage. Venting is part of that but not ruminating or wishful thinking. I'm glad you have a good friend who gets what you've been through and is there for you. I have that in my H whose parents were even more toxic than mine. We can laugh about some of the behaviors that are absurd, but more importantly, he is there when I'm straight up angry, validating my outrage. And vice versa.

You also have all of us here. To a person, people are going to understand the dilemma, including how to navigate the emotions when a parent is failing at their job.

Thank you for your compassion.

[Sappho11]

Last night I went for drinks with my friend's new girlfriend. She's absolutely lovely (even asked the waiter for a candle to stick on my cake, to celebrate after all). She and my friend are complete opposite personalities – think cat vs Golden Retriever energy (and my friend is the cat) but they really mellow one another out, and I hope it works out for them.

News from my father. He asked me how I was but didn't at all react to my answer. Instead, he told me he's been in a lot of physical pain in the past three days. The reason has varied: first it was overtraining, then lumbago, then the kidneys, now it's I don't know what. Well I do, it's psychosomatic. This morning, cleverly sandwiched-in after a charming message, he tells of how ill he felt the past three days, that he couldn't move at all... so I asked him whether he hadn't gone to celebrate with his niece? "Oh no, I felt so ill, it would have been impossible to make the journey..." I don't know if he's lying or not. I thought about going on Facebook to see whether his nieces posted pictures but I remembered he deactivated all his public records about half a year ago (incidentally when I first sent him a message there, which he claimed he never received), and we're not connected on FB, so if such photos exist, I wouldn't know. At this point I wouldn't put it past him that he really went there, had a good time, and now cranks up the pity mill so that I'll feel bad for him. Perhaps he really didn't go because a subconscious part of him knows he acted like a jackass towards de-facto the only daughter he still has, and it manifested psychosomatically, which wouldn't be improbable. Either way, I have very little compassion for him at this point. He also mentioned several times how scared he is of an upcoming colonoscopy and added today how afraid he was that doctors might find cancer. (It's a routine checkup, he's in good health and has zero reason to assume this.) Yeah, I'm not going down that line of argument.

Maybe it's petty, but the more distance I have from him, the more I see how unacceptable his entire behaviour has been. I went to huge troubles to find him, to spend time with him, to surprise him on his birthday, took time off during the week, travelled to his part of the country multiple times to spend time with him etc. I consented to spending my birthday with him because he asked me to, I organised everything, booked trains and hotel, etc. Then he changes his mind because I don't 100% go along with what he wants and as a result, he suddenly can't even give me the time of day on my own birthday, leaving me to shoulder now-wasted travel and accommodation costs on top of everything. In between, he tries to manipulate me by hinting at suicide multiple times, and causes trouble by imposing his ideas on what little shred of agency had left for that day. My birthday ends up botched and lonely because it was too short notice to make other plans. Now, after the fact, he still doesn't ask what I ended up doing, how I felt the day of.

Even I can't reason away the dysfunction, the blatant disregard for my feelings, the lack of empathy.

I'm now also beginning to question what happened to all the online messages I sent him on Facebook and other portals over the years, which he claims he's never received. He only replied when I sent him a physical letter – which his wife would have seen – but even so, I never received his first reply (which he allegedly sent), only the second, in which he berated and insulted me for not replying to his supposed first letter swiftly. The whole thing made absolutely no sense at the time, especially since he was so lovely and enthusiastic at the beginning, when we finally did meet. Looking at it from the "possibly disordered" angle however, I'm now seeing the possibility that maybe he did receive everything, maybe he did read everything, but he wasn't able to face up to his own shortcomings as a father until they were threatened to be revealed to his surroundings, and then he put on this elaborate act which lasted for a good two months – possibly fuelled by the circumstance that I do resemble my mother, whom he did revere, and the fact that I get along well with people in this country and he thought I was boosting his value in the family. Eventually he exhausted himself and the mask slipped. Now it's difficult to put it back on. At least that's the sense that I'm getting.

[Sappho11]

There's always something.

I decided to be compassionate in the face of my father's health fears and told him I was thinking of that Zen proverb "It is nonsensical to fear that which we do not yet know". I've always found this a comforting thought.

He replied with a huge rant of what an arsehole quote this was, that I was calling him an idiot, that my mother (who suffered of stomach cancer almost all her life, was a model of courage, optimism and self-possession and never once complained, even in her final days) would have feared cancer (which is completely untrue and a highly inappropriate claim), etc.

In short, it's well-crafted disordered argument bait, the way only disordered people can fashion it. My heart was racing for a good minute. I suddenly thought "Oh! Physiological trauma response" and it calmed down. I replied "You're trying to start an argument, but I'm not participating. I told you something comforting, not insulting. The remark about my mother is completely inappropriate and you know it. Have a nice day."

He replied a weird word salad of an unrelated Confucious quote, called me "little daughter", that his life had been too long and too difficult, that he would never provoke arguments which hurt him so much, that he was beyond that, etc. etc. Ah, the self-victimisation stage again.

I'm not going to respond.

Also I'm going to go for a little Zen walk now to get rid of that cortisol in my system. And next time he starts with that pity-grabbing health bullPLEASE READ, I'm just going to ignore it. There is no point.

Radical acceptance, radical acceptance...

[Sappho11]

There's also another thing I've been thinking about. My father and I have been planning to go through with a legal, formal acknowledgement of his paternity. At the beginning I thought it would be nice to be legally integrated into a family. Also I'd be getting citizenship of this country by descent and would avoid paying 60% inheritance tax when my father passes away one day.

I've now been thinking. I don't really need citizenship here; I have citizenship of another European state, and if I wanted this one, I could apply for it myself in a couple of years' time. The tax benefit might not even be applicable, there's not much to inherit anyway and if, I can see my father giving it all to his nieces since they seem to be more pliable.

On the other hand, going through with that legalisation would open me up to a huge liability. By an ancient historic law, this country charges first-degree relatives for maintenance costs before social security steps in. In other words, if my father goes down the road of dementia (which isn't unlikely given what I'm seeing), has to go to a care facility, and lives as long as my grandmother (who's suffering from dementia but is still alive at 93), I am possibly exposing myself to considerable financial trouble a few years down the line, which might last for decades. From what I've read, courts here are merciless, and they have no problem sending entire families to their economic doom to save the broke state a few pennies. I don't think they'd have much compassion for me, unmarried, no dependents, earning a decent living off (now comfortable, but hard-earned) self-employment. Imagine getting shafted like that, and having to sacrifice the life you've wrested from a hostile fate to spend decades paying for a dysfunctional father who didn't even raise you. I really have to think this over well, and if I go through with it, cover all my bases.

I think it might be time to get in touch with my estranged half-sister who hasn't spoken to our father in fifteen years.

[Sappho11]

Checked my messages. My father added to his rant: "I still always love you though, my daughter. Do you?"

No inclination to reply, since 1) he's trying to pin his meltdown on me once again, 2) his declaration of affection is conditional once again, and 3) he's looking for validation, nothing else.

Don't know what to say because I sure won't enable him any longer.

[Sappho11]

I'm slowly uncovering the reason for my father's dysfunction.

After some careful questioning, it turns out that his own father was the classic post-war family despot. A decorated war hero and certainly a good soldier, not so great at home. No tenderness, a lot of domination, emotional overpruning and strict discipline, and my father clung to women for consolation as a result. Most of all, a great emphasis on role-playing in the family, the father was not to be questioned under any circumstance, hence my father has no male model regarding apologies and saying "I'm wrong". His father was an absolutist ruler, and my father firmly believes that this privilege is now owed to him as well, by mere merit of role.

It hasn't occurred to him once to ask whether I, for my part, really owe him any of this, seeing as he was absent all my life and I raised myself. To him, I call him "father", so he's automatically entitled to all the privileges of a father – which includes not questioning him and doing everything he says. This is what constitutes "respect" in his eyes and that's how it works.

It gets worse. My father's father was universally revered, and for good reason, as he was a model of resilience and strength which was of supreme importance in the war and post-war years. My father constantly battles against the subconscious knowledge of not measuring up to that ideal in the slightest: he's artistic and sensitive, but he doesn't see that as strengths, and he has had neither the emotional intelligence nor the perseverance necessary to have developed these talents. Instead, he went the way of least resistance and chose a career as a businessman, in which he was reasonably successful, and most of all, could play the role of being a leader, a "strong" man. All his life he's mistaken steamrolling others with drama for actual strength, and he's listened to nobody who'd have pointed it out (like his ex-wife and his estranged other daughter). In truth, he's incredibly fragile, and whenever things don't go his way 100% because somebody sets a boundary, not only is his psychosis of omnipotence shattered, but he's also immediately, emotionally confronted with the fact that he's sensitive and far from being the calm stoic his father was. Hence the acting out. Classic narcissistic injury.

Somehow he's also clad this "I am so great and strong" delusion into another of being limitlessly altruistic, warm and loving, which is his personal way of "outdoing" his strong but cold father. In situations that show him that this isn't actually the case (such as him being less popular, or having a much worse 70th birthday than his father did), he completely melts down and blames it on his "unfair" surroundings.

Conclusion: Because he's constantly playing a role (a contradicting one, and also very poorly), it's impossible to connect with him on a true, emotional level. There's just nothing there. Shame, but that's how it is.

I can only pray that I take after my mother. She, too, had a father who was professional military and dominating at home. But she was very rational herself, also flexible, and found clever ways of standing up to him, which led to a relationship of mutual respect rather than the one of oppression as between my father and his family. A man like my father would have seemed cute and harmless in comparison: hence her way of bypassing his antics with a simple "oh, silly you" and her skill in not engaging. But I also understand why she would have thought "Yeah, I'm not going to marry that".

There's a silver lining to all of this: I'm glad I didn't grow up with my father. Yes, I had a bloody awful childhood, violence, abuse, alcoholism of caregivers, poverty, the lot. But at least I was always able to say "Those aren't your parents. What these people do or say doesn't matter", which eventually saved me. Growing up enmeshed with my dysfunctional father would certainly have turned me into a nutcase myself.

There's always some good.

[Sappho11]

I'm kind of using this thread as a notepad. I hope this is all right.

So many things are making sense now. In speaking to my father, I've often felt as if I am talking to a wall. For instance, he once asked about my friends, so I described three of them: one a penniless, womanising jazz pianist, one a sedate middle-class lawyer with a family, one a high-achieving banker who runs businesses for a sense of purpose at this point; all by chance different nationalities and in different places on the political spectrum.

My father replied with his own list of past (!) friends and said: "Contrary to you, I've always had friends from different classes and backgrounds, with all kinds of opinions." I was confused and asked him what he meant, since my friends were from different classes and backgrounds? He just repeated himself: "Well, yours are all from the same background, mine were all different." He went on to list a bunch of trades which were all remarkably similar.

Considering his role issues, he probably subconsciously thinks: "I can be friends with anybody, which makes me special" and "A father always outdoes his child". So anything that I do just as "well" as him threatens his shaky foundation, even if it's something completely ridiculous as diversity of friends (which is mostly happenstance and hardly a virtue). The only ways in which he grants me "talent" are in things that do not touch his sphere of action: female physical beauty, sartorial style, the technical part of my profession. Anything that "rivals" with his role: thoughts, economic theories, business strategies, emotional composure – he discounts, because they belong to him and him alone in his mind.

I'm now thinking I'm also pushing his buttons because due to my introversion and a "freeze" rather than "fight" response, I generally appear to stay detached from his outbursts. Nothing riles him up like a calm and quiet response to his antics. He'll use escalatingly egregious tactics to try and lure you into emotional contagion and becoming as hysterical as he is: pouting, being passive-aggressive, then being outwardly aggressive, projecting, making inappropriate remarks about my late mother, eventually threatening suicide.

I'm not taking the bait anymore.

[livednlearned]

Something that has helped me when interacting with people with traits similar to your father is that they are often fighting for position. It can be about anything.

It can make for a perpetually aggressive way of being. Aggression is often covert, sometimes passive, at times overt, because the potential for injury is near constant. The contest is relentless and it's fought in the mind. Goal posts move constantly and you never know when the game starts and finishes.

With my BPD family members, I assume the fight for position is part of who they are. It means not letting down my guard, having short visits, not sharing too much, and essentially doing what I can to not make things worse.

[Sappho11]

Something that has helped me when interacting with people with traits similar to your father is that they are often fighting for position. It can be about anything.

Yes, this is it exactly. Fighting for the position of omniscient, omnipotent patriarch.

It can make for a perpetually aggressive way of being. Aggression is often covert, sometimes passive, at times overt, because the potential for injury is near constant. The contest is relentless and it's fought in the mind. Goal posts move constantly and you never know when the game starts and finishes.

With my BPD family members, I assume the fight for position is part of who they are. It means not letting down my guard, having short visits, not sharing too much, and essentially doing what I can to not make things worse.

These are all true and good advice. Another thing I've read is to focus on the outcome you can control, not the relationship. For example, state a boundary and follow through with it. Don't get dragged into the other person's emotional spiral, just let them be. What's important is that you've said what you want to say, because that's what you can manage. The other person's reaction is beyond that.

By the way, I was in the middle of a meeting, when the phone rang (I couldn't pick up). It was the florist again, no kidding. Several days after my birthday, and my father is still trying to have those damn flowers delivered. At this point it's beyond question for whose emotional sake they really are.

I've now texted him asking him to call off the florist. No explanation, no justification, just that. Give him nothing to argue about.

Guess what? "Ok, I'll try" (plus a complaint about how they didn't respect his order etc.)

Getting there. Slowly.

[Sappho11]

Day 5 of my father trying to have the flowers delivered.

I'm beginning to understand the effect of Chinese water torture.

[Sappho11]

I've been burying myself in work lately so that I don't have to think about all this.

It's been difficult. I live a very isolated life thanks to my recent emigration and I haven't told anyone in person about the problems I am going through with my father.

Last night I talked on the phone with an old friend of mine. He comes from a severely dysfunctional family himself and instead of listening to my concerns, he kept interrupting me to talk about his own trauma. I tried to tell him of my father's BPD traits, of the toxic arguments, of the constant emotional drain, and my friend's response was pretty much: "You wanted a family, now you have it. It's your own fault. All of that is normal", when it is very much not. He made me feel like I was being ungrateful and I left the phone call feeling 1) ashamed to have opened up to him and 2) lonelier than before.

I've been feeling very isolated in general lately because while people were quick to congratulate me on the fairytale story of having found my father after such a long time, most of them tell me I am making a mountain out of a molehill when I am very much not. And it makes me feel really stupid. I never complain, ever; and now that I do it once, when something serious is up, people not only brush it off, they actively tell me I am being ungrateful, that I'm being a bad daughter (often "compassionately" adding that I simply can't know any better having grown up an orphan), that I shouldn't complain etc.

It's strange how having family can you make you feel lonelier than having none at all. That latter absolute loneliness nobody understands, even though most people pretend to. But now that I have one, it's even worse, because now people feel qualified to present themselves as moral arbiters.

Anyway. Back to work now.

[Sappho11]

After a good month of carrying all of this around, I finally broke down tonight on a Zoom call (of all things) and told a friend who's actually a work contact. I was already in tears before I could tell her anything, because she was so genuinely warm and concerned, and actually listened. She's been in my life for years and is an absolute treasure. Interacting with her always reminds me that normal, calm, reliable people and relationships exist and I am deeply grateful for that.

[Methuen]

Sappho11, I just caught up reading your posts from p2.  I really just want to give you an encouraging hug, and say that I think you are managing so well with all you are dealing with.  Your posts show you working through the pragmatics of the situation, and it seems to me that is your WISEMIND at work as you process and analyze all this.  

Your last post sounds like you've most past acceptance and entered into the grieving stage.  E. Kubler Ross would call that progress.  It's so hard, but it's progress.

I admire you.  I really do.  Reading your posts, I hear courage, clear thinking, disappointment, hard work (working through all this) and determination, and inner strength.  Even if it doesn't feel like it to you right now, that's what I hear when I read your posts.

Keep posting.  We support you!

 

[Sappho11]

Thank you Methuen. That is a lovely thing to say. We're all trying our best at the end of the day.

I've started applying the advice of "focus on the outcome, not on the relationship". That is, to get clear about one's own needs, state them clearly, and then let the other person manage their own emotions. I keep reminding myself that my father's emotional reaction is not my problem, it's his. Boundaries, boundaries.

I don't want to jinx it but it recently worked. He's been sending me articles about a country I used to live in, which was an unhappy time and which I do not want to be reminded of, which he knows. So I asked him to please stop sending me articles about that particular country, unless it had to do with the country we live in.

In the past this would have sparked a meltdown along the lines of "now you don't even want to read articles I send you, I thought I was doing you a favour, how else are we going to stay in touch, should I censor myself" etc.

His response now: "Ok I won't send any more". Good! Followed by "I just sent you these because that country's decisions always have an effect on or country". I'm realising just now that this is a poor attempt at trying to weaken my boundary again. Whatever. I just replied "Thank you".

If he sends any more, I'll restate the boundary and tell him I'll have the messages deleted if he keeps sending them.

-----

I have to admit the distance is doing me some good. I haven't seen him in six weeks and I am slowly beginning to feel like myself again, without having to bury myself in work. Last night I even went out and socialised a little. I went to a new restaurant alone and the waiter gave me a very warm welcome, which felt like a cure of the soul. This country doesn't tip, so there was nothing in it for him, he was clearly having a good night (with other patrons too) and wanted to share the good vibes. There is something deeply heartening about seeing healthy, happy people interact without apprehension, with ease and with peace. Self-possession and warmth in relating to others. This is how things should be.

[Sappho11]

Thought there was a rapprochement, but apparently not.

Lately things have been good. I'd been planning to go visit my father again, but he's been evasive.

Yesterday I asked him about Christmas. I was really looking forward to it this year. I haven't celebrated Christmas since I was five years old. This year, after having found my father, I thought we'd all celebrate together.

My father is now telling me he's been having a "couple's crisis" with his wife and that they're going away at the end of the year, and that there is "nothing he can do". Not a word about what the rest of the family is doing either.

The message is clear though: I am not part of the family.

I'm looking at yet another Christmas alone.

I've been having trouble lately, a decades-old problem has cropped up again, and my biggest client hasn't paid me in over three months. All around terrible. It seems there is no end to bad news this season.

[Sappho11]

Just saw that my father wrote me a novel-length text regarding something unrelated in the middle of the night last night. Lots of problems all around. I do get the sense that if I am to be a part of this family, it will be as part of the parent, not child. A parent with no agency however. That isn't what I want my life to be.

Spent the morning looking at volunteer options over Christmas. There's no way I'm spending those days alone this year. Surely there must be something better to do.

[Red Admiral]

Hi I really don't know where to begin after reading your post, although this is so sad I had to message you. I have looked on this site and posted only twice but have never felt the need to share my story which is unusual and precisely the same as yours. Although the incidents are not verbatim the thoughts and feelings could have been written by the same person. However my story began twenty years ago when I found my father at the age of 37. He had never been in my life and had left my mother when she was pregnant. Which of course was terribly sad but my mother was actually diagnosed with having Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is a rarity. I was the scapegoat in the family dynamic and I considered her parents as my own, they were my rocks during a very unsettled childhood. Before my grandfather passed he told me to try and locate my natural father as he was worried that I would have no one in my corner when he died. Three years later I did and that is where our initial stories become as one. No one can truly understand what it is like when you find a natural parent as an adult, there are so many expectations and as you described it, it can only be described as a whirlwind. I know that it is recommended that before finding a natural parent you should get counselling to prepare you for all of the emotions that are brought to the surface. I wish I had sought professional help prior to finding my dad as my childhood had left scars that needed to be addressed. You want so much a happy ending that you choose to ignore your initial gut instinct and red flags. My gut instinct was precisely the same as yours but sadly I knew nothing about BPD and I thought with time things would settle, how wrong could I be. When I first spoke to him on the phone my first red flag was that he spoke constantly about himself. He didn't ask about me or how my life had been over the years, but I put it down to nerves.  This could be of epic proportions so I will try to remove any padding which is a little difficult. I  immediately noticed that conversations which should have had a tone of empathy had none and I told him during an early conversation that I had noticed this, however I knew by his reaction he had no clue what I was talking about. Before I found him I was terribly unhappy and was in a marriage that was on it's last legs. I had married very young essentially to leave the home that I shared with my mother. When I found my dad he was struggling with his life at home and I thought his moods were related to external problems and not a serious personality disorder. It never occurred to me for one moment that both my parents would have a Cluster B disorder. After talking for a while foolishly we moved in together, thinking that we could somehow fast track memories and make up for lost years. And immediately more red flags came into the equation, in fact enough to adorn a circus ring!  After my divorce had come through he thought it would be nice if I changed my surname to his, because it should have been on my birth certificate. I didn't really see the need but he was pretty insistent and as the name was actually nicer than my married name I did. During conversations about the past pretty much everything that had happened to him he was not responsible for, he negated responsibility for everything. And I considered from what he told me about his life that he was reckless in many ways. He always spoke very effusively about himself but seemed disinterested in others feelings or emotions. If I ever highlighted something he had said that had been unacceptable he would deny it, or use word soup to try and deflect and confuse. It seemed that he also had a mental rule book that he expected everyone to understand without actually communicating what was in it. He would sulk for days if anything annoyed him whether at home or an external stress. His moods swung between anger, spaced out, depression and normal. I would be his lifeline one minute and then persona non grata the very next, there was absolutely no middle ground. But there where days of clarity and genuine kindness which confused me  I knew that something was terribly wrong. My head told me to run for the hills but my stubborn streak and pride kept me stuck in the situation. I didn't want to have yet another unhappy ending, and thought that I could somehow turn things around, failure was not an option. And so the situation went on for years with me being on a rollercoaster ride one that I didn't understand. At times when he was spaced out I knew that he had no control over his thoughts and emotions and as an empath this saddened me and guilt would also render me inert. I tried to find an answer as to what was wrong with him, and it was only by chance 16 years later that the final piece of the jigsaw was put in place. I read a story of a mother describing he son in a BPD rage, and it was dad to a tee. Apart from one criteria self harming dad meets every DSM criteria. When he is in a calm headspace he will acknowledge that he has BPD but he calls it "Berserker Syndrome". I have read a great deal about BPD and it is possible to stay in the life of someone who has the disorder, but it does require an awful lot of patience. I should have trusted my first gut reaction and acted on it, you have and from what you have experienced already you should proceed with caution. In my case hindsight is a wonderful thing and I wish I had information at the time to help me. I have learnt how to communicate effectively with him and and there are good days. He is 80 years old now and I am glad I met him, I accept that he has an illness and although difficult at times hence my earlier "sound off" post. You have the buffer of mileage between you and healthy advice and input from others. I would say if you want to remain in touch with him, don't expect anything to change, and accept that he has deregulated and disordered thinking. Although difficult do not allow guilt trips to be played on you and set boundaries that you keep to. You will undoubtedly experience more of the crazy stuff but if there are a few good times in the mix and you can remain mentally healthy you may be able to have a father in your life. I wish you all the very best for the future and thank you for your post it was the first one that I could completely and utterly identify with. 

[beatricex]

hi Sappho,
OMG, this sounds absolutely horrible.  It reminded of my earlier days of internet dating, where I would talk to a guy for months and months, it all got built up....then when we would finally meet it was nothing but fighting, drama, horrible horrible misunderstandings and me wondering how people could be so different and desperately seeking to find a way out!  How could I be so wrong about someone?


I think this is just some stranger you discovered was your sperm donor?  I mean really, family is what is familiar to you and you don't really know this dude so he's just a mentally ill guy you kind of wish you hadn't found right?  It was probably good for you to know the history between him and your Mom though right?  And also to meet him so you could stop wondering how he turned out?

This is troubling and I'm so sorry it happened to you.  I think you are strong and will recover, though.  Think of it as one big "test" which I believe you are passing by the way!  How to have boundaries with someone who will never get it.  great job
 

b

[Sappho11]

Hi I really don't know where to begin after reading your post, although this is so sad I had to message you. I have looked on this site and posted only twice but have never felt the need to share my story which is unusual and precisely the same as yours. Although the incidents are not verbatim the thoughts and feelings could have been written by the same person. However my story began twenty years ago when I found my father at the age of 37. He had never been in my life and had left my mother when she was pregnant. Which of course was terribly sad but my mother was actually diagnosed with having Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is a rarity. I was the scapegoat in the family dynamic and I considered her parents as my own, they were my rocks during a very unsettled childhood. Before my grandfather passed he told me to try and locate my natural father as he was worried that I would have no one in my corner when he died. Three years later I did and that is where our initial stories become as one. No one can truly understand what it is like when you find a natural parent as an adult, there are so many expectations and as you described it, it can only be described as a whirlwind. I know that it is recommended that before finding a natural parent you should get counselling to prepare you for all of the emotions that are brought to the surface. I wish I had sought professional help prior to finding my dad as my childhood had left scars that needed to be addressed. You want so much a happy ending that you choose to ignore your initial gut instinct and red flags. My gut instinct was precisely the same as yours but sadly I knew nothing about BPD and I thought with time things would settle, how wrong could I be. When I first spoke to him on the phone my first red flag was that he spoke constantly about himself. He didn't ask about me or how my life had been over the years, but I put it down to nerves.  This could be of epic proportions so I will try to remove any padding which is a little difficult. I  immediately noticed that conversations which should have had a tone of empathy had none and I told him during an early conversation that I had noticed this, however I knew by his reaction he had no clue what I was talking about. Before I found him I was terribly unhappy and was in a marriage that was on it's last legs. I had married very young essentially to leave the home that I shared with my mother. When I found my dad he was struggling with his life at home and I thought his moods were related to external problems and not a serious personality disorder. It never occurred to me for one moment that both my parents would have a Cluster B disorder. After talking for a while foolishly we moved in together, thinking that we could somehow fast track memories and make up for lost years. And immediately more red flags came into the equation, in fact enough to adorn a circus ring!  After my divorce had come through he thought it would be nice if I changed my surname to his, because it should have been on my birth certificate. I didn't really see the need but he was pretty insistent and as the name was actually nicer than my married name I did. During conversations about the past pretty much everything that had happened to him he was not responsible for, he negated responsibility for everything. And I considered from what he told me about his life that he was reckless in many ways. He always spoke very effusively about himself but seemed disinterested in others feelings or emotions. If I ever highlighted something he had said that had been unacceptable he would deny it, or use word soup to try and deflect and confuse. It seemed that he also had a mental rule book that he expected everyone to understand without actually communicating what was in it. He would sulk for days if anything annoyed him whether at home or an external stress. His moods swung between anger, spaced out, depression and normal. I would be his lifeline one minute and then persona non grata the very next, there was absolutely no middle ground. But there where days of clarity and genuine kindness which confused me  I knew that something was terribly wrong. My head told me to run for the hills but my stubborn streak and pride kept me stuck in the situation. I didn't want to have yet another unhappy ending, and thought that I could somehow turn things around, failure was not an option. And so the situation went on for years with me being on a rollercoaster ride one that I didn't understand. At times when he was spaced out I knew that he had no control over his thoughts and emotions and as an empath this saddened me and guilt would also render me inert. I tried to find an answer as to what was wrong with him, and it was only by chance 16 years later that the final piece of the jigsaw was put in place. I read a story of a mother describing he son in a BPD rage, and it was dad to a tee. Apart from one criteria self harming dad meets every DSM criteria. When he is in a calm headspace he will acknowledge that he has BPD but he calls it "Berserker Syndrome". I have read a great deal about BPD and it is possible to stay in the life of someone who has the disorder, but it does require an awful lot of patience. I should have trusted my first gut reaction and acted on it, you have and from what you have experienced already you should proceed with caution. In my case hindsight is a wonderful thing and I wish I had information at the time to help me. I have learnt how to communicate effectively with him and and there are good days. He is 80 years old now and I am glad I met him, I accept that he has an illness and although difficult at times hence my earlier "sound off" post. You have the buffer of mileage between you and healthy advice and input from others. I would say if you want to remain in touch with him, don't expect anything to change, and accept that he has deregulated and disordered thinking. Although difficult do not allow guilt trips to be played on you and set boundaries that you keep to. You will undoubtedly experience more of the crazy stuff but if there are a few good times in the mix and you can remain mentally healthy you may be able to have a father in your life. I wish you all the very best for the future and thank you for your post it was the first one that I could completely and utterly identify with. 

Thank you for your response, Red Admiral. You are right, the similarities are striking, uncanny even. The talking about himself the first time you reconnected, and you putting it down to nerves. The way your father seemed strangely unempathetic. Things moving at a breakneck pace. Him insisting that you, an adult woman, change your name to his. The unaccountability, the word salad. I am so sorry you are going through this. And you're being a living warning to me.

My father has mentioned repeatedly that he's been having problems with his wife. I am not surprised, given the ungrateful manner in which he acts towards that lovely woman. A part of me is wondering whether he wants to acknowledge me as his daughter in official documents so that he'll have a safety net when he needs care. I am not entirely sure his wife will stick around.

You've not only shared a massively relatable story, you've also given me a glimpse into a potential future of mine. Thank you.

[Sappho11]

hi Sappho,
OMG, this sounds absolutely horrible.  It reminded of my earlier days of internet dating, where I would talk to a guy for months and months, it all got built up....then when we would finally meet it was nothing but fighting, drama, horrible horrible misunderstandings and me wondering how people could be so different and desperately seeking to find a way out!  How could I be so wrong about someone?

I know you mean well but I daresay those aren't exactly comparable scenarios.

I think this is just some stranger you discovered was your sperm donor? 

No, my father was an on-and-off fixture in my mother's household when I was a child up until I was around five years old. He was the only boyfriend she had, to the point that I asked her at the time whether I was allowed to call him "Papa". So he's not some rando, he's the father I've wanted for three decades. He's also from a different country than the one I grew up in and I identify with his nationality a lot more than with my own (to the point that I chose to live in his country even before I found out he was my father). We also have a great number of idiosyncratic traits in common – traits that I have never encountered in anyone else. So I can't just say "oh well, too bad".

Also I have no other relatives at all. I went from being a lifelong orphan to having at least someone. The marginal utility of "having one relative" vs "having no relatives" is immense, both in social and practical matters. This is something that is very difficult to explain to people in normal social networks.

There are a great many aspects to be salvaged here even if the relationship itself is less than perfect.

I mean really, family is what is familiar to you and you don't really know this dude so he's just a mentally ill guy you kind of wish you hadn't found right?

No, see above.

It was probably good for you to know the history between him and your Mom though right?  And also to meet him so you could stop wondering how he turned out?

Yes I am grateful about his stories about my mother, but they are secondary. Mostly I want a father. And I can assert from experience that having a loopy, undependable father is still better than having no relative at all. If this wasn't so, I'd have thrown in the towel long ago and gone NC. Finally, at the end of the day, I am still a naive believer in family. So I am willing to put in a reasonable (not self-annihilating!) effort to make things work, even if the path is littered with disappointments.

This is troubling and I'm so sorry it happened to you.  I think you are strong and will recover, though.  Think of it as one big "test" which I believe you are passing by the way!  How to have boundaries with someone who will never get it.  great job
 

b

Thank you, if you say so. I don't really believe in "tests", only in obstacles of our own making, so I am trying to figure out how to navigate this whole thing. Sometimes I get tired and then I rant on here.

[Sappho11]

Another little tidbit. I think I may have mentioned that my father never added me on Facebook, which he extensively uses. I asked him to add me today and found that I can still see – nothing. No list of family or friends, barely any posts.

I remember when I tried to reach out to him a year ago, I could see a great many of those posts – I remember because I was curious and looked up a couple of people back then. Now we're connected and I can't even see that. It also looks as if he's cleaned out his feed so that I can't see any interactions.

My original plan was to go on Facebook, look at his connections, and see whether any family members have tagged him in pictures, for example on the date of my birthday when he claimed to have been "in too much pain to go out", even though I suspect he secretly spent the day with his niece and had a great time. At this point I wouldn't be surprised. Same about potential upcoming Christmas pictures.

I'm also wondering what he told his wife about me. The way he rants about this lovely woman to me, I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same thing about me to her.


One bizarre silver lining. There is one thing I did see on my father's Facebook profile: a veritable onslaught of tasteless, below-the-belt memes, generally directed against youth and women. I'm not so much bothered by the misogyny as by the cheapness as well as the complete lack of common propriety and decency. I knew that my mother, who was from a genteel, bourgeois home wasn't allowed to marry him, the son of a poor factory worker, when they were both seventeen. Looking at the things my father posts, I now realise that must truly have been worlds colliding. It sure is a collision with mine. He may have worked himself out of his beginnings financially, but he certainly never did so in terms of personality; inside he's still the kid from the slum, hiding behind a very thin veneer indeed.

I've noticed this before in certain things, though of course I've been trying my darndest not to let it on.  I now wonder whether certain outbursts of his are now due to my accidentally having triggered such insecurities. The day we last met, when we had this big row about him threatening suicide, he had shown me around his hometown, acting like a tour guide. And I mean this literally: he spoke like an actor portraying a tour guide, strangely stiff and rehearsed, often stopping to stand in awkward places to spool off his text (complete with awkward, flawed Latin quotes). I feigned enthusiasm, of course, asking him how he knew all these wonderful things. "Oh, one reads" he said. Except... he doesn't.

I'm now thinking of so many little moments that are making sense. He once ranted about being invited to dinner by his erudite neighbours and complained to me how he'd get "bored to death" listening to their discussions of Kant. I laughed and told him to send me over next time instead, I love Kant and would love to chat with the other "bores"! – He immediately changed the subject and never brought it up again.

He's also asked me how many aristocrats I know, how many wealthy people, etc., which I found rather bizarre. His class anxiety is through the roof in so many ways. He loves to pretend, but he doesn't really know how, which makes the whole thing almost comical in nature. He pretends to have read all kinds of things yet doesn't recognise the most obvious allusion. He goes to expensive restaurants but feels ill at ease there to the point he doesn't even remember how to make conversation. He goes on about how many hundreds of ties he used to own but dresses very poorly (in a country where clothes are central to national identity). It's a laughable charade, obvious to anyone, and yet he carries with him a tremendous fear of being found out.

Layers upon layers. I'm kind of beginning to smile at the whole thing now. Maybe my Christmas really is better spent reading Schopenhauer and cutting cheese the proper way. Maybe that's still lonely, maybe that's not a lot, but at least it's something, and something that nobody can take from me.

[Mommydoc]

Sappho11, I just read your posts from beginning to last and I am so impressed with your knowledge of BPD, your self awareness and balanced approach.  It sounds like you are committed to an ongoing relationship with your father and you are learning who he is.  It sounds like you may be grappling with the dissonance between what you hoped and fantasized about versus the reality of who he is.  The distancing is healthy and will help, but it will be important to continue to adjust your hopes and expectations.  I am happy that you seem to have great friends who really came through on your birthday.  Your fatheris unlikely at this point to change.  You have a lot of tools and a supportive audience here to help you stay focused on yourself and your needs.  Please keep posting and keep us updated as you navigate a very complex and difficult situation. I don’t know what the best course is in terms of legalizing his paternity.  It sounds like there are a lot of potential down sides, so I encourage you to wait to move forward.  I just lost my last parent, my mom and am about to “divorce” my only sibling, so my FOO is essentially gone.  I have only a few living distant second cousins who I don’t have a relationship with, so I am focusing on my “chosen” family and realizing how special these relationships can be.  I hope you will surround yourself with those who can give you love in a healthy way. 

[Sappho11]

Sappho11, I just read your posts from beginning to last and I am so impressed with your knowledge of BPD, your self awareness and balanced approach.  It sounds like you are committed to an ongoing relationship with your father and you are learning who he is.  It sounds like you may be grappling with the dissonance between what you hoped and fantasized about versus the reality of who he is.  The distancing is healthy and will help, but it will be important to continue to adjust your hopes and expectations.  I am happy that you seem to have great friends who really came through on your birthday.  Your fatheris unlikely at this point to change.  You have a lot of tools and a supportive audience here to help you stay focused on yourself and your needs.  Please keep posting and keep us updated as you navigate a very complex and difficult situation. I don’t know what the best course is in terms of legalizing his paternity.  It sounds like there are a lot of potential down sides, so I encourage you to wait to move forward.  I just lost my last parent, my mom and am about to “divorce” my only sibling, so my FOO is essentially gone.  I have only a few living distant second cousins who I don’t have a relationship with, so I am focusing on my “chosen” family and realizing how special these relationships can be.  I hope you will surround yourself with those who can give you love in a healthy way. 

Thank you Mommydoc. That was a heartening encouragement. You are absolutely correct about holding off on the legalisation of paternity. All good advice.

I am sorry for your recent loss. And I am glad that you have lovely people to rely on. I'm sorry, I just got more bad news, I struggle to say what I want to say.

[Sappho11]

So this morning I received a long email from my father. Apparently his wife has seriously talked to him about divorce. They're on the rocks.

Absolute catastrophe in so many ways. Though I don't blame the poor woman.

I absolutely adore her and her family; I actually get along with better with them than with my father's. We celebrated my father's birthday with his wife, one of her daughters and the daughter's husband. Very warm, empathetic people, kind, genuine (even though my father thought little of them, as usual). I couldn't remember ever having felt so happy in my life – to finally be part of such a loving family!

And of course there's the fate of my father; I don't think it would do him well to suddenly be left alone at 73. I don't know what he would do.

In typical fashion, he blames it all on his wife. Tells me she went off the rails from one day to the next, that she is "loving one moment and cold and arrogant the next". I'd take this seriously if I didn't know he's said the same thing to me about myself. His dysfunction is now painting her as the crazy one. I feel just so, so much compassion for the woman – and I have no way of telling her that. It's a nightmare. My father's antics have recently caused yet another rift when he wasn't invited to the very intimate wedding of his wife's grand-daughter, and his wife was summoned there in secret. Instead of understanding (there were only 15 guests on each side of the marrying couple) or at most enquiring what it is that made them not want him there, he completely went off the rails and now blames it on everyone else.

I sent a sober yet compassionate email to my father trying to tell him that he needs to take a good long look at himself and realise he is playing a part in all of this. That this might well be the last chance. That talk of divorce is serious and that women don't "go crazy overnight". That he needs to start owning up to his own part in all these affairs. That a therapist would be a good idea in this point.

All I can do.

I just wish I could contact my step-mother. I want so badly to hug this lovely woman and say "I understand, I understand; you're not crazy, there is nothing wrong with you or your family". But I can't.

[Sappho11]

I just re-read the last email my father sent and even the syntax reads eerily similar to my BPD ex's writing, even though they were different ages, different nationalities, speaking entirely different languages.

In his long rant, he mentions me in one sentence: "However, for once I would have liked to be with you. Fate has decided otherwise for this year." Sure, "fate". I'm reminded of the quote that what people call fate is mostly just their own foolish deeds. Never has this been more applicable than here.

He also says that he's always hated Christmas but doesn't know why. I have a pretty good idea: because those days are about family and not all about him.

One thing that's unintentionally comical: He says it is "idiotic" for his wife to make such a fuss, considering that they "have so little time left on this Earth".

All I thought was: That's exactly why that poor woman is "making such a fuss". And I can't blame her. She's raised two daughters and has grandchildren and even great-grandchildren now. They are the light of her life. She's 76 years old and still dresses well, does her hair, puts on makeup every single day. She's got an admirable grip on herself, yet is warm and empathetic towards others. A female role model if I ever saw one.

I should also add at this point that this woman never met her own father. She looked for him herself as a young woman but found him only after he had passed away. Despite or because of this, she has been incredibly gracious and understanding towards me from the start.

It's not looking good for my father. I couldn't blame his wife for wanting to spend the rest of her life in peace, dedicating herself to her family.

[Sappho11]

It's only occurred to me now that, same as with my birthday, my father has paid not one thought to me and what I am going to do over Christmas, especially alone in a foreign country.

Is that too much to ask of a parent? I have no idea. I think at least expressing concern or compassion towards one's child would be appropriate.

I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and I can see no scenario in which I would not fight tooth and nail to spend Christmas with my long-lost daughter who managed life alone and eventually tracked me down after 30 years – and who also happens to be the only daughter willing to be in touch with me. But of course I might be biased.

I haven't seen him since the day we had this horrible word salad row about him threatening suicide, and I get the sense that he is still subconsciously trying to punish me for that argument and my not giving in to his manipulations anymore.

[Sappho11]

My father responded to my email telling him he needs to take a good long look at himself.

It was pretty much pseudo-intellectual drivel. My BPD ex had the same gear. No civilised conversation to get out of him, but when directly challenged, he turned into a wannabe Shakespeare on the moral high horse, like someone benevolently preaching down from a pulpit.

In this case, it was my father talking about how everyone around him has "the wrong perception of things". My favourite bits are his assertions that

1) everyone owes him "respect" because he's older (and by "respect", he means everyone unquestioningly doing what he says)
2) his wife's grand-daughter should have invited him to his wedding because he bought one or two gifts for the great grand-daughter and
3) his wife's children "owe him gratitude" because he's taking care of their mother financially (which is a ridiculous thing to claim to begin with, and which I even doubt – she lives in his small house but that's about it, and she seems to have her own money).

Funnily enough, apparently the grand-daughter even provided him with reasons why she didn't want him there. He said these were "distorted and hardly credible".

Since I have nothing to lose – as I see it, I don't really have a father anyway – I poked the bear and responded that he had overlooked the main point of my message: that it was his lack of self-reflection causing all these problems; that he couldn't go around acting like a despot; that he had to respect people in order to be respected; and that he better listen to the warnings, pointers and reasons he's being given by his wife's family before it is too late and he's miserable and alone.

One thing is for certain: I definitely won't be going through with the legalisation of paternity. All I see at the moment is a massive, massive liability that, as of now, is easy enough to avoid. I'd be a bloody fool.

[Mommydoc]

It is amazing to witness your clarity. It is so clear you really wanted to make this work and yet you have been honest with yourself and accepted the reality of your situation. I think it takes many of us a lot longer. You might consider taking a break from your father, allowing yourself to refocus your energy on other relationships and personal goals. You don’t have to abandon him or the relationship. Given the discussion of divorce, at minimum he will be needy and demanding, but he could also dysregulate  and things get worse. Be cautious. My therapist calls it “love from a safe distance.”

[Sappho11]

It is amazing to witness your clarity. It is so clear you really wanted to make this work and yet you have been honest with yourself and accepted the reality of your situation. I think it takes many of us a lot longer. You might consider taking a break from your father, allowing yourself to refocus your energy on other relationships and personal goals. You don’t have to abandon him or the relationship. Given the discussion of divorce, at minimum he will be needy and demanding, but he could also dysregulate  and things get worse. Be cautious. My therapist calls it “love from a safe distance.”

Thank you Mommydoc. You are being so kind. It has taken me a long time to catch on myself – my first experiences with BPD were in childhood, with a diagnosed BPD best friend. The households I grew up in had similar patterns. So if I managed to see it here, it's only because I've been seeing the same things elsewhere for almost thirty years. Better late than never!

A break certainly is a good idea. I just feel sorry about my step-family. They were so kind and welcoming and I wish I could celebrate Christmas with them. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if my father told them I was "busy", the way he lied to his relatives about my birthday.

Distance certainly is in order.

[Sappho11]

As outlined in the recent thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357078.0), my father keeps inventing increasingly absurd stories in order to get sympathy or attention. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole "my wife has gone crazy" shtick is completely fabricated, things are as usual at home, and he just doesn't want me around for Christmas because then he won't be the centre of attention (I haven't met much of my family yet, so it would be an introduction). – Of course, the other, perhaps more likely scenario is that his poor wife has really been worn down by his psychotic ways; I wouldn't blame her.

A couple of little things have happened recently that make me question whether my father been lying to me from day one. He makes up things so nonchalantly that I no longer know what to believe – even inventing entire people who've supposedly died recently. If the dying continues at this rate, my country will face a serious degree of depopulation by the end of the year.

He finally accepted my friend request on Facebook which I sent him a good year ago. He's always claimed to never have received the messages I sent back then, nor my messages to him in 2016 (when I was still thinking he was only my mother's boyfriend), nor those I sent in 2008. Last Christmas I wrote to him on another platform – a message which I believe gave me a read receipt back then. It also never reached him – allegedly. He only responded when I sent him a physical letter to his address this summer (and which his new wife saw). I have not mentioned this before: His first response was an angry letter in return, calling me by the formal form of address, stating that I had to be a fraud, that I had acquired his address by illegal means (it was on of his social media profiles...), that I couldn't be who I was claiming to be since I hadn't replied to his first letter in three weeks, that my mother would have been disappointed in me (!), but that he wished me all the best.

Well now that I read that back, knowing it comes from someone who is mentally ill, it sure makes a lot more sense than it did at that moment.

It's true that I hadn't replied to his "first letter", the reply to mine – because I had never received it. Had he even sent it? We will never know. He claimed it had been returned to him eventually; but I never saw it.

Of course, a normal person might have sent a letter saying: "I have not heard back from you, did you get my first letter?" But no. He sent that angry tirade of slander and insult instead. Perhaps he was hoping that I'd abandon ship.

When I read that letter, I cried my eyes out. It was the first sign of life of him in 30 years – and it was that! A friend happened to ring at that very moment. He had never heard me cry and was overwhelmed with the situation. "Your father is an arsehole. Forget him." Solid advice. But, of course, I didn't know whether he really was my father or not at the time. I needed certainty. So I wrote an angry response myself – with measure and restraint of course. I also added my email address. Then I sent the letter by registered post.

My father sent a short email the same evening the letter arrived. "What a lot of misunderstandings" he wrote. Then he started asking me about my mother. I spent a good two or three weeks furnishing him with all the details that he wanted to know about her, as his curiosity was insatiable; he wanted to know everything, how her life had been without him, what years she had married and whom etc. He didn't ask about me until much later.

I suggested to meet up. He agreed and told me to come visit – but then gave me a choice of dates one month out. I didn't understand the long wait, and still don't. Maybe he thought it would be easier to manipulate me via email. The messages went from detective-like probing about my mother to being sappy about me within the span of few weeks.

There are many things that were odd even from the first meeting – one of them being that he didn't admit to being my father until he had met me – but I'm noticing that I completely veered off course in this post. Perhaps this is for another time.

tl;dr My father lies so prolifically, I no longer know what to believe.

[Sappho11]

I'm reading back some of the emails from the beginning now and I find them nauseating. Was I so blinkered? So in need of a father? I must do better. How did not see the red flags? The histrionic tone? The love bombing – and cranked up the max whenever he's startled me with some angry, unexpectedly aggressive message?

Some of those things give me the chills:

I'm perfectly willing to act and react as you wish, and I want you to know that in addition to your love, I need your trust, because trust is a great proof of love and I'd rather die than betray it.

Have you understood that you are now my most precious possession?

I want to die with you as my daughter, but please don't ever question the love I have for you, or the admiration for what [sic!] you are, totally unconditionally.

I also noticed that he started talking of "tragic deaths in the family" about a month in and how much he has been suffering. Back then, I offered to drop everything and come visit right away. (I do not even recognise myself in these emails I wrote scarcely three months ago.) And again his suddenly nonchalant response: "Yes I am touched by all these deaths, but they are normal. They have close families that take care of everything, don't worry."

When I failed to reply for a day or two, he sent a message talking of me as "a little bird that mustn't be caged, mustn't be suffocated". And when I did reply: "You're not ordinary! Your complex character fascinates me. I must be crazy, it's true!"

It doesn't even make sense. Not to mention an entire undercurrent from the very start suggesting I was "fragile", "capricious", in need of protection, and so on, and so forth... blimey, I can't even go on reading these, it is too creepy. What was I thinking?

 

[Sappho11]

Well the saga is nearing its inevitable end.

I've been tardy in replying to my father because I have been having considerable business trouble, and right now it looks as if I won't even be able to make rent at the end of December. At this point it's just as well that I have been told to stay away for Christmas, because I couldn't afford to go anyway, the roof is currently on fire and I'll be glad to have a day or two off once I've (hopefully) managed to find a way to solve this dilemma.

My father kept asking me why I wasn't replying and sent a message telling me I could confide in him, that I had a father now, that that counted for something etc. At this point I should really see the h00ver attempts for what they are but I thought "what the hell" and replied.

I told him I was glad he had sent me that email, because I had frankly begun to doubt whether he wanted to be a father at all. He had refused to see me on my birthday, had refused all compromises to meet up since, and had told me to not come for Christmas.

I said I was glad if we could put that behind us and told him about my current predicament that was worrying me.

BIG MISTAKE.

He responded with his usual "it's all a misunderstanding" and I knew the rest would just be dysfunctional nonsense. He inadvertently admitted that he had uninvited me for Christmas because of the whole birthday drama he caused, and of course pinned the fault on me. According to him, I have only myself to blame, because I "failed" to cross a vital, sensitive and clearly-communicated boundary of mine for him. Of course this is ridiculous, and I at least know it. He then went on with the weirdest, typical BPD excuses that make no sense: that he couldn't "risk the same scenario for Christmas" (reminder: it was HE who had cancelled my visit on my own birthday even though I had already booked everything!); and almost hilariously absurdly, that I had once told him I was an agnostic and that he therefore didn't think I'd celebrate a "Christian tradition like Christmas" (this, by the way, from an atheistic father... who celebrates Christmas himself each year... and with whom I've visited several churches to light candles for my late mother... and whom I told several times that the worst thing about growing up an orphan was being alone for Christmas). None of it makes sense.

Oh and since that wasn't enough, concerning my business worries, it was a whole paragraph of "told you so", telling me how to an "old fox" like him this was obvious from the start, that he knew all along this would happen, that he had told me "a million times" (reality: footage not found) etc., plus him panicking about how I am going to pay rent?!?!?! (You'd think it's his rent I'm paying!) Can't I ask some of my friends for help?! – The latter in particular reminded me of my BPD ex who always offered his "unconditional help, no matter when, no matter what", but no matter whether I needed the tiniest bit of assistance or was in great distress, his default answer ended up being a cold: "Don't you have friends you can ask?"

Long story short:

My father is completely and utterly useless as a father;
as a human being, he is a complacent, self-pitying, yet loud and boorish fool (as outlined in many posts above), selfish to the nth degree, which makes him a miserable pain in the arse to everyone in his surroundings, dragging everyone down;
he does nothing if it doesn't benefit himself, yet will insanely talk all day long about how "altruistic" he is and how the world "owes" him;

in short, he is a person I wouldn't even want as a friend, actually not even as an acquaintance, and if we weren't related, I'd have run for the hills long ago.

It's looking like LC in the new year; perhaps even NC.

[Sappho11]

I don't know what it is, maybe I see it's all going downhill so I might as well see things burn. I just poured oil into the fire responding to his dysfunctional email. I should know better by now: whenever he starts anything with "Ahhhhh, my daughter...", whatever follows is usually complete BS.

I told him in no unclear terms that it was he who spoilt my birthday, that he didn't even reimburse me for the cost; that it was doubly grating after the fuss I had made about him on his birthday (a two-day celebration no less); that his reason for not wanting me home for Christmas were ridiculous; that telling him about my worries was a mistake, that a father would ask "how can I help?", not "Can't any of your friends help?"

Also that I'll have no time for further discussion until I've solved that problem.

Maybe a part of me is cowardly hoping this will lead to a month of NC on its own.

[Sappho11]

Looking at the whole thing objectively, I'm finding it difficult not to see the humour in this whole affair – going from "meeting perfect family" to "absolute sh*tshow" with years of pettiness and resentment miraculously compacted into few months. If I was a dramatist, this would be great material for a play. Without the mental illness bit, of course. Got to keep things light and relatable.

On the other end of the spectrum, there is a song cycle by Schubert called Die Winterreise, A Winter's Journey. It starts: "A stranger I arrived here / A stranger I go hence." Very fitting. The whole work, quite lengthy, is a master study in melancholy.

Unfortunately there's no time for wallowing right now, so I might as well go with the comedy interpretation of this tragicomedy.

[Sappho11]

Was expecting an angry tirade from my father this morning, but so far nothing. Radio silence.

Maybe I've called him out one too many times.

The past couple of months got me thinking: He puts great emphasis on going through with the legal acknowledgement (which I'm expected to organise by the way), but none on actually having me around as a daughter. He doesn't want to see me on my birthday, nor for Christmas... and I'm beginning to think: What if he isn't my father at all?

In the beginning, when I first wrote to him, he wouldn't tell me if he was or not. Then, after we'd met, he said he was. Even more curious: He told his wife, who was unconvinced, that I had in my possession a letter from my mother proving that he was my father, and asked me to go along with the story. Problem: That "letter" is complete fiction. I never understood why he made it up.

He's also always skirted any questions of a paternity test. I thought we had a great deal of things in common, but when I read back our initial emails, I see it is mostly me being detailed, and him going along with everything, saying he is "the same". Just mirroring from start to finish. Yes, we do have some things in common, but to the degree that any two people might have something in common.

Maybe this is just copium. Maybe not. Maybe his wife has caught on to the story, which is why I cannot join the family for Christmas. Maybe he's playing me completely – telling one story to the people at home and another to me.

Well this is all a house of cards.

Once I get some time, I'll go through my mother's letters again. I remember never finding direct proof or confirmation that my father was my father. But perhaps I'll find a refutation.

[Sappho11]

He's replied. Took him 48 hours which is rare, and which probably means it's a novella-sized elegy of self-pity and blame-shifting.

I marked the email as read without reading it. I don't have the time or energy for this right now. Maybe in a week's time. Maybe next year. Maybe never.

[SaltyDawg]

Sappho,

You have been through a lot, and I sense it is quite overwhelming for you.

Be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you, even if it means not reading nor responding to novella e-mail.

Take care with self-care.

SaltyDawg

[Sappho11]

Thank you, SaltyDawg.

I clicked on the email to see whether it would be short or long. As predicted, it is a huge wall of text. Possibly the longest he's ever sent.

I'm not reading that.

I have bigger fish to fry at the moment (have to sort out considerable money worries) and won't deal with this until I am firmly sorted in life. Might take a month, might take a year. Until then, it's NC for me.

It's his wife's birthday in a few days, I'll send her a text to congratulate her and maybe also to tell her that I'm behind her whatever she does. My father will likely be taking my silence out on her, and that wonderful woman needs to know she's not the crazy one.

[Sappho11]

I've set up an automated email rule now that will mark his messages as read and sort them into a hidden folder, well out of sight. This way, I won't get that dreaded cortisol flash whenever I check my emails and see there's a new message.

His text conversations are archived too. (I turned off their notifications for him long ago.)

I've been around the block often enough that these aren't things that are necessary with good, safe people. I'm thankful to everyone, on the forum and in life, who told me to wait and see before going through with the acknowledgement of paternity. A few years ago, this forum made me realise I had dodged a major bullet in not getting married to my BPD ex. I'm feeling the same sense of relief about my (non-legal) father now. This could all have gone a lot worse, but it didn't. Gratitude.

[Sappho11]

My father has deleted me as a friend on Facebook. Incredible. You'd think you're dealing with a 13-year-old child.

Just as well. I don't need to see his disgusting woman- and youth-hating memes. If anything, I'd rather we're not associated at all.

I guess he can unhide all his family pictures and connections now.

[Sappho11]

Couldn't resist and did look into the email. Figured I might as well get it over with.

Long story short, my father has now discarded me.

Classic narcissistic rage, blame shifting, victim blaming. A lot of "I hate you, don't leave me". Goes on to lists all my "flaws": hysteria, hypersensitivity, speaking of things I don't understand, moralising (in "siding with [his] wife's family").

Lots of warming up of past conflicts with stilted arguments for why everything is my fault.

I'm glad I'm far away and know that it is nonsense.

He goes on that he knows now that I exist and that he'll keep loving me, but that I have become "toxic" and he has to "protect himself". He told me to not write again, that he'd feed all my future letters to the fire, unless he receives an email first beginning with the words "I ask for your forgiveness, Papa".

Yeah that's not going to happen. No contact it is.

[Sappho11]

I'm looking over my notes that I made on his dysfunction over a couple of months (contrasting his behaviour with normal behaviour), and it just occurs to me that the timing of the discard is probably not coincidental.

I find it very telling how he was pushing me towards the legal acknowledgment of the paternity for months; and as soon as I tell him that I have money troubles, he drops me like a hot potato. It's so absurd I'm finding it funny. I can't even be sad about it. I thought gold-diggers were supposed to be young, fit and handsome? I want my money back!

I'm now going to go through my things and clear out the things he gave me. It's not a lot to begin with: a coffee cup, a dictionary, and a magazine to which he contributed an article. Reminds me of my BPDex's gifts: a used CD of his despite my not having a CD player, and a teapot. Same dysfunction. I remember when my BPDex discarded me for good, I felt astoundingly good after only a day or two. I knew the horror was finally over. This feels similar.

[Sappho11]

In order not to worry anyone: I keep adding posts to this thread not because I'm in distress, but because I'm thinking of so many things now that are downright hilarious.

My father's rant (I only skimmed it) contained the sentence: "You are wrong, as always."

I'm smiling at the screen as I type this. It's supposed to be a damnation, but it's just so blatant, so outlandish, such an overt admission of his own narcissism, it strikes me as funny. Much needed comic relief. What does he expect me to say? It's so delulu (as the young ones say), it could be a meme.

[Tangled mangled]

Oh dear Sapho,

I’ve followed this thread since it started and was silently rooting for this to work for you.
Reading your latest post, you seem to have handled it like a boss.
Persons who haven’t been through trauma will find it shocking the kind of things survivors laugh at.

Hoping you can rest assured that you lost nothing even though the discard is from your own dad. It’s truly heartbreaking what you have been through but as a fellow survivor of trauma with disordered parents I’m proud of you.

[Sappho11]

Oh dear Sapho,

I’ve followed this thread since it started and was silently rooting for this to work for you.
Reading your latest post, you seem to have handled it like a boss.
Persons who haven’t been through trauma will find it shocking the kind of things survivors laugh at.

Hoping you can rest assured that you lost nothing even though the discard is from your own dad. It’s truly heartbreaking what you have been through but as a fellow survivor of trauma with disordered parents I’m proud of you.

Thank you, Tangled mangled. You are right in that nothing was lost.

I think I went through the whole grieving process in September. I remember when my father threatened suicide to manipulate me into going to his niece's party on my birthday to make him look good (God this sounds even worse when condensed into a single sentence ) – when I realised this was typical, pathological cluster B manipulation, and I felt suddenly hit as if by a freight train. The mask had come off completely for the first time that day. Having gone through this cycle with a BPDex before, something in me knew in that very moment that the whole thing was doomed, though of course I was hoping otherwise. So I started this thread... and three pages and almost three months later, here we are.

It's strange how these things mirror one another. The trajectory with my BPDex was similar. Whirlwind, and despite it, I knew in the first weeks that something was wrong. Increasing conflicts over nothing. Then, rapid devaluation. Inexplicable outbursts, crazymaking arguments, gaslighting. He, too, discarded me after four months. Two or three weeks later, he came crawling back and I took him back, for another, even worse four months of emotional abuse. This time, I'm not making the same mistake. I can already see my father penning tearful, disjointed emails trying to h00ver me. I expect them around Christmas. By that time his wife may already have left him. He too will be back, probably telling me about how miserable he is now that he is alone and things didn't magically pan out for him. But this time, I won't be there.

There are more parallels. Like my BPDex, my father refused to add me on social media. He paraded me around two or three select people in the beginning, but never introduced other family or friends to me. And even when he did, he made sure I was completely isolated from the people in his circle; that nobody got my phone number or contact details, and vice versa. It was all about controlling the narrative, of course.

Last night I made a list of early warning signs. Things that seem innocuous, but aren't. And because I was feeling good, I also made a counter-list: finding the opposite behaviour of the warning signs, a list of "green flags", to detect healthy people (such as affection growing slowly, in proportion to time spend together). To my surprise, I realised that I have many of those "good" traits myself; but that I could be less critical, more patient with others, more encouraging, and that's going to be something I will work on.

I'm not sad about how this all panned out. This time, I have enough self-esteem to walk away, which is a major milestone in my book. The whole thing isn't devastating or soul-crushing, like the separation from my BPDex. It just is. If anything, it's a pointer to not underestimate my own weaknesses, that I can still trip into these exploitative relationships if not careful. It's all a learning curve. And there are better things ahead.

[SaltyDawg]

Couldn't resist and did look into the email. Figured I might as well get it over with.

Long story short, my father has now discarded me.

Classic narcissistic rage, blame shifting, victim blaming. A lot of "I hate you, don't leave me". Goes on to lists all my "flaws": hysteria, hypersensitivity, speaking of things I don't understand, moralising (in "siding with [his] wife's family").

Lots of warming up of past conflicts with stilted arguments for why everything is my fault.

I'm glad I'm far away and know that it is nonsense.

He goes on that he knows now that I exist and that he'll keep loving me, but that I have become "toxic" and he has to "protect himself". He told me to not write again, that he'd feed all my future letters to the fire, unless he receives an email first beginning with the words "I ask for your forgiveness, Papa".

Yeah that's not going to happen. No contact it is.

He has done the classic "I will dump my daughter, before my daughter can abandon me" where is shifts the shame of blame on to you.  Based on the number of posts you have made, I can surmise that it is really affecting you in a negative way. 

Sappho, this is not your fault.  I know you wanted to have a relationship with your dad so badly, and he is not someone you wanted him to be, and that can be very unsettling to say the least.

Please be mindful in telling yourself the following:

I did not cause it.

I cannot control it.

I cannot cure it.

You can get more tips from www.margalistherapy.com/articles/borderline-and-narcissism-issues/handbook-for-dealing-with-a-bp-np/

I love your NC precautions, that way, if and when you are ready, you can read what he has wrote on your timetable, not his.

In the meantime, follow his advice, and don't write him.  However telling you not to ruminate on him, will only make you want to ruminate more.  Instead, I will offer up, with all of the stress you are under right now, take time to do some self-care.  I know money it tight, do some self-care that doesn't cost anything except your time and effort.  Go for a walk (run/jog) outside in the brisk autumn/winter air in the sun, I find between 1-2 hours it is ideal for me, figure out what is good for you.  Get lost in a good book, tv show/series/movie.  Take a nice long hot (or cold if that is your thing) shower/bath is another one of my favorites.  Continue to journal your feelings here on this thread to get it off your chest so it isn't internalized.  You can also Google "self-care" for more ideas.

Take care with self-care.

SD

P.S.  If you ever decide to write to him again, you can show him some 'radical acceptance' (DBT tool) by starting off your e-mail to him "I forgive you, Papa" (only if you mean it)

[Sappho11]

Hello SaltyDawg, thank you for the advice. I can assure you I am fine, no need to pathologise It's not my first rodeo and I already have solid self-care routines in place. These days I post a lot but I always have when there was something to think about – it's just the way I process things. It's not rumination, it's constructive and leads to resolution.

Yes, I am aware that my father's behaviour is not my fault, nor is it up to me to change him. The responsibility I do have is to not get lured into a codependent relationship again. I have no intention of resuming contact with him and can't see any scenario where I would be inclined to do so.

[SaltyDawg]

Hello SaltyDawg, thank you for the advice. I can assure you I am fine, no need to pathologise It's not my first rodeo and I already have solid self-care routines in place. These days I post a lot but I always have when there was something to think about – it's just the way I process things. It's not rumination, it's constructive and leads to resolution.

Yes, I am aware that my father's behaviour is not my fault, nor is it up to me to change him. The responsibility I do have is to not get lured into a codependent relationship again. I have no intention of resuming contact with him and can't see any scenario where I would be inclined to do so.

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, and your posting is more journaling than anything else - that's good.

Take care withe self-care.

[Sappho11]

The whole thing is having unexpected beneficial effects.

Yesterday I went out to buy wrapping paper for a friend's upcoming birthday, and I suddenly noticed that I was feeling really good. Just calm and cheerful. I thought about the past couple of weeks, about my father, yet the calmness and peace persisted. I realised I was happy. Not in a triumphant "Haha, I won the match" kind of way, but more like "I'm feeling really good about myself for some reason". Usually I'm self-critical so this cheerfulness was bit of a shock. I was worried it might be complacency, that I might be getting too full of myself.

This morning I woke up and tried thinking about the times in my life when I'd wronged people. I've always had this notion about myself as an insufferably arrogant child, a troubled teenager, and a self-absorbed, self-unaware loser well into my 20s. I've also always known that I grew up in abusive households – abusive in all meanings of the word; and that most of the people supposed to raise me after my (healthy) mother's death had manifest personality disorders. I thought of all the ways I had acted out back then, terrible things I'd said and done as a teenager, which I hadn't thought about for years and which now have me shaking my head at my past self. I also thought of the ways I had somehow held it together despite the difficulties (not going down the road of mental illness myself, still getting good grades, making some loyal friends despite my "troubled outcast" status at home and at school). And I realised I had neither been "all bad" nor the "all good poor abused child". I was a kid that grew up without love, with a whole lot of hatred projected towards me, and that I did the best I could at the time: looking out for myself when nobody else did, and as a consequence, having to figure out a lot of things by myself, including how to healthily relate to others. Most of my life I'd assumed I was defective somehow. Now I realise I simply went through certain social development stages later because I had to figure them out on my own (which, in social matters, is admittedly hard to do, do not recommend ). In my early to mid-20s, when I'd finally worked myself into safe living conditions, the pendulum swung from "self-absorption + survival" to "codependence + healing fantasy". Not good either. It took a disastrous romantic relationship with a BPD man (and my signing up to this board) to see where I was failing. The resulting course correction eventually eliminated the one-sided relationships in my life and led to formerly distant, healthy acquaintances becoming close, reliable friends. There's still a lot to learn, but the overall direction is the right one at last.

This morning when I was lying in bed thinking about all this, I realised that this was the reason for my sudden inner peace despite the recent storms. In the past week, something in me had finally fully caught on to a feeling of self-worth – that there were good parts and bad parts of mine, but they were all integrated into a whole. It was the strangest feeling: as if a ghostly something that had been walking beside me forever had suddenly become superimposed onto me and been fully absorbed. Yes, I'd made mistakes in the past and would probably continue making some in the future (hopefully not the same ones), but at the core I was all right with who I was, and nobody could take that away from me. The discard was the acid test that proved it beyond doubt. Even a year ago, perhaps even half a year ago, it would have wiped me out completely. Now it was barely a paper cut: irritating for about an hour and annoying once or twice thereafter, but eventually – inconsequential. Hence the cheer, the peace, the serenity of the past couple of days.

And then an even stranger thing happened: In realising I had integrated the good and the bad within myself, I thought of my father and suddenly felt a sense of pity. Not in a condescending, haughty manner, but in a compassionate "I see why he acts the way he does, yet I don't have to stand for it" way. I thought of some of the people in my life that had wronged or even abused me: and I saw that they were all fighting for their own survival, one way or another. Cognitively I had known this, but I hadn't actually understood it. I went through a dozen of different scenarios in my mind, and this understanding was suddenly immediate and intuitive. And understanding doesn't mean I condone these people's actions – some were criminal and could (and should) have got life in jail. But I now see how they got to where they ended up and why.

On an entirely different note, it also occurred to me why so many people here are conflicted about their parents, and whether or not they should go NC. I have it easy, my case is obvious and the verdict is too: "My father shunned his duty and never did anything for me, I had to grow up an orphan and still built a decent life all on my own. There is no reason to give him and his dysfunction a place in this self-built decent life. He has done nothing to earn it and everything not to deserve it, both then and now." But I realise now that this gets a lot more tangled and fuzzy when you're dealing with a parent with whom you may have grown up, who may have provided for you economically, or who might even have been a good parent some of the time. It's probably most people's experience so it may sound stupid to anyone who didn't grow up completely isolated, and cognitively it's obvious, but it took me until now to understand it intuitively, without the mental steps in between.


tl;dr
The whole father drama indirectly led to self-compassion and improved personality integration, which in turn led to increased understanding of and compassion for others. Major personal win.

[SaltyDawg]

And then an even stranger thing happened: In realising I had integrated the good and the bad within myself, I thought of my father and suddenly felt a sense of pity. Not in a condescending, haughty manner, but in a compassionate "I see why he acts the way he does, yet I don't have to stand for it" way. I thought of some of the people in my life that had wronged or even abused me: and I saw that they were all fighting for their own survival, one way or another. Cognitively I had known this, but I hadn't actually understood it. I went through a dozen of different scenarios in my mind, and this understanding was suddenly immediate and intuitive. And understanding doesn't mean I condone these people's actions – some were criminal and could (and should) have got life in jail. But I now see how they got to where they ended up and why.

[...]

The whole father drama indirectly led to self-compassion and improved personality integration, which in turn led to increased understanding of and compassion for others. Major personal win.

Sappho,

   That's awesome, that you got this so "immediate"ly.  For me it was more of a process.

   The first phase, was realizing that my wife was a borderline, that threw me into a full blown panic mode on I was with a person who was severely (at the time) literally a 'mental case' and I had been in denial for nearly two decades.  That was immediate after wracking my brains on it for about 10 days from the time I was introduced to the concept by my first individual therapist.

   I took me several months to figure out, and understand how the borderline mind worked, where I can more accurately predict their behaviors than a normal person's behaviors as they follow fairly rigid set of behavioural patterns, and are as predictable as a 3rd world train schedule.  You know the train is coming, you just don't know the precise time it is, or how bad it is going to be once it arrives.

   For me the realization was first anger, frustration, but also a preliminary understanding, I needed to stop the 'crazy' at any cost (including my relationship, if necessary), as it already cost my daughter some severe emotional outcomes, and my son was also being showing oppositional defiant tendencies.  I didn't even realize that I was being abused as it had come on so slowly, it wasn't perceptible to me - 'how could I be so, so... duped?' into being so complacent, for so long, for these unacceptable behaviors.  This is where I 'cognitively' knew what I needed to do.

   It wasn't until several months later after observing borderlines on their own 'facebook groups' on how they think, how they react, and how they process things.  It is pretty hard core being exposed to raw emotions being expressed in these groups - it was also extremely enlightening at the same time.  I later had a licensed counselor approach me who had borderline symptoms, and at one point when I asked her, she admitted to it (but later recanted) whose personality was nearly identical to my wife - I had access to a science fiction (fact) level psychological tool of 'mind reading by proxy' as I did not have the experience of being severely abused as a child - while my FOO has some mild abuse (disciplining by spankings and something similar to caning - only this was illegal, and some yelling - even though the public school system still used paddling, even though it has been made illegal as the parents demanded it).  That said, my childhood was mostly non-eventful when it came to me in comparison to others I have communicated with.  Most of my issues, have come from my romantic interests, as I didn't know any better at the time.

It wasn't until a month ago, when I started a volunteer job to help those in crisis, did I finally shift to a full understanding about a week ago which has led me to a much better understanding of what is going on, empathy, and compassion for others - and I find this understanding to be extremely rewarding, as I no longer have any 'anger', 'contempt', left in me for my specific scenarios or that of other people's scenarios that I am helping them out with.

To summarize, my understanding is a process, and not an epiphany which is what happened to me when I first logically realized the extent of the dysfunction my marriage was.  I hope this makes sense.

I am glad you have grown a better understanding of and an increased compassion for others.  I am there, but it took more than a year to get there for me.

Take care with self-care.

[Sappho11]

I have been having the nagging feeling that my father has been lying about a great many things, but since he's successfully isolated me from my step-family, I was wondering who else I could ask.

The other day I unearthed my mother's address book from 30 years ago. I started googling some names in it and eventually happened upon a lady who was friends with my mother for most of her life. She still lives in the same city, and I also found her new phone number.

I think I faintly remember her from my early childhood, so once I've mustered up enough courage, I'll call her and ask her about my mother. And if she's willing to talk, I'll ask her about my father, too.