My ex has finally snapped (and I'm scared)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Mutual friends told me that my ex is going to the courthouse today to file for a PPO against me.

He claimed to a friend (in writing) that he was fine with seeing me at gatherings.  Then I RSVPed to a gathering he was attending, he has called it stalking, and is pursuing legal action against me.  He is clearly very mentally unstable.  Fortunately, there is a lot of written evidence and at least one friend who is going to be a witness for me.

I am really scared, though, about what he will do when he gets humiliated in court . . .

[GreenEyedMonster]

Mutual friends told me that my ex is going to the courthouse today to file for a PPO against me.

He claimed to a friend (in writing) that he was fine with seeing me at gatherings.  Then I RSVPed to a gathering he was attending, he has called it stalking, and is pursuing legal action against me.  He is clearly very mentally unstable.  Fortunately, there is a lot of written evidence and at least one friend who is going to be a witness for me.

I am really scared, though, about what he will do when he gets humiliated in court . . .

[Rmbrworst]

That's messed up.  Sorry this is happening.  The silver lining is this only reinforces your decision to leave your BPD (or stay NC if he left you).

If you have been keeping records and have evidence you should be fine.  Do you have a lawyer?  Do you have a support system in place?  Someone who will go with you to court?

[steelwork]

I am really scared, though, about what he will do when he gets humiliated in court . . .

What are your fears? Do you feel unsafe?

[GreenEyedMonster]

Yes, I have evidence, both written and the testimony of friends, to help me in court.  I did contact him once against his wishes, but that was an e-mail asking him to just be friends.  In my state, the contact has to be something that would make a "reasonable" person scared.  I don't think that cuts it.  But still.  One wonders if he will perjure himself to get the PPO.

I am working on a decision about getting a lawyer.  I am going to call the lawyer tomorrow to learn more about fees.  I can defend against it without getting a lawyer, but I'm contemplating getting a PPO against my ex, for obvious reasons.

The narc injury that would inflict on him, though, might really set him on getting revenge.  He talked repeatedly of wanting to murder his other ex girlfriend.

[Mr. Magnet]

They seem to take on a different flavor of crazy after the relationship ends.  Mine has a harder time hiding the crazy.

[zeus123]

hi GEM. what do you think is the narcissistic injury that you might cause him can you elaborate.

[Rmbrworst]

it's very upsetting how people with Narc traits will go out of their way to make you seem like the crazy person, and slander you.

Be safe, be aware of your surroundings and keep your friends close. 

A restraining order against him may or may not improve things I'm not sure.  I'm really sorry you are going through this hell. 

[GreenEyedMonster]

hi GEM. what do you think is the narcissistic injury that you might cause him can you elaborate.

I don't know if you're aware of what narcissists are like, but for you and other readers, narcissists have a false image of themselves that is nearly perfect, or deal.  Narcissistic injury occurs when someone shatters that perfect image with evidence to the contrary.  Narcissists react to this with rage, revenge, decompensation (depression, collapse, paranoia, delusions).

At the beginning of the relationship, my ex described himself very inaccurately, but he didn't lie -- he described his ideal self, one which he is not.  He said, "I am very patient with people I care about.  People say I'm very patient."  So wrong.  He described himself as empathetic, kind, caring, etc.  In truth, he is ruthless, merciless, angry, vengeful, selfish, rude, arrogant, and a whole list of other things that are very much not how he envisions himself.

If he goes to court against me, it is entirely possible that the judge will inform him that he is harassing me, that he is abusing the court system, that he should seek mental health help, etc.  If that happens, he will feel his perfect image shattered . . . and it will be all my fault.  All hell could break loose.  That's what I'm worried about.

[steelwork]

All hell could break loose.  That's what I'm worried about.

You say he talked about wanting to kill his previous ex. Is this what you mean by "all hell"? If that is a real threat, can you relocate? Because if you really think he might act on those threats with you, it sounds like you need to start planning. Please take steps to keep yourself safe. I am getting worried.

[GreenEyedMonster]

All hell could break loose.  That's what I'm worried about.

You say he talked about wanting to kill his previous ex. Is this what you mean by "all hell"? If that is a real threat, can you relocate? Because if you really think he might act on those threats with you, it sounds like you need to start planning. Please take steps to keep yourself safe. I am getting worried.

I just bought a house and I can't change jobs easily at all, so relocating isn't really an option.  My parents are encouraging me to take a gun class, however . . .

[steelwork]

I just bought a house and I can't change jobs easily at all, so relocating isn't really an option.  My parents are encouraging me to take a gun class, however . . .

I just... .I feel a gun is not going to keep you safe. Is there any way to ameliorate the narcissistic injury? What would be the consequence of not fighting the PPO?

[apollotech]

steelwork:

What would be the consequence of not fighting the PPO?

That's ^^^^ my thought if being embarrassed in court will tip this guy over the edge. I am not sure about the laws in your state/area, but I believe in some states/areas PPO's work both ways. That is, for example, if he showed up at your house or work you could have him arrested. Of course, if he's mentally unstable, that might not be a good option. This is a mess GEM; I am sorry that you're caught in it.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I just bought a house and I can't change jobs easily at all, so relocating isn't really an option.  My parents are encouraging me to take a gun class, however . . .

I just... .I feel a gun is not going to keep you safe. Is there any way to ameliorate the narcissistic injury? What would be the consequence of not fighting the PPO?

PPOs in my state appear permanently in your criminal record.  I work in a career where this record is checked when I apply for a job.  So it could affect future employment opportunities.

I tried being nice to him and acting like nothing really bad happened, but then the next time I saw him I looked at him wrong -- he has a hair trigger -- and that set him off again.  It is too risky to try to be friends with him.  Believe me, that would have been my best option, and it isn't going to work.  Short of taking him back and acting like he's great, I think he'll remain injured.

The problem here is not whether or not I fight the PPO.  It is that he has no grounds for one, and will be rejected within 24-48 hours, unless he perjures himself.  The standard in my state is that a person's conduct has to make a "reasonable person" feel unsafe or threatened.  He told my friends in writing that he was fine with seeing me, and then changed his mind about that on two separate occasions.  Both times he showed up where he knew I would be, of his own volition.  I e-mailed him once after he asked me not to contact him, and posted once on a message board that was public, where he knew I would be able to respond.  Both were very friendly messages that were attempts to give him a little good supply.  It just made him angrier.

On the bright side, he has a deep fear of being labeled a criminal.  So I have that going for me.  I hope that means that he will not resort to any extralegal means to solve this problem, and his angry urges are just bluster.

I think my best hope is that he will not pursue the PPO because he does not want me to be able to tell my side of the story in court.  That idea would terrify him because it would be a public airing of everything he has done wrong, and it would make him out to be a total creep.  I hope and pray that when he realizes that's what's next, he will back off and disappear.

[Lou12]

Oh my word GEM I actually can't believe what I am reading!

As you know we have chatted about this lots, every interaction, I can categorically state that he is totally deluded.

I'm here if u need to chat X

[GreenEyedMonster]

Oh my word GEM I actually can't believe what I am reading!

As you know we have chatted about this lots, every interaction, I can categorically state that he is totally deluded.

I'm here if u need to chat X

Thanks Lou.  It's pretty clear that my ex is decompensating, i.e. his defense mechanisms are failing, so he is becoming deluded to protect himself from the hurt.  The unfortunate thing is that when he asks other people to validate his delusions, even those will be shattered, and then what?

My friends are discussing not inviting him back to any of our gatherings (finally) and he is going to be completely defeated in court.  So he'll have more narc injury.  He will either implode or explode at that point . . .

[Lou12]

My guess would be that he will pull out of going through with the PPO, he might be crazy but surely he'll have a pretty sane lawyer, therapist or friend who'll tell him he won't stand a chance.

The worrying thing though is where he is heading with this with you. He is clearly very emotional on how he feels about you hence why it is displayed in anger. I'd be inclined to talk to someone about the course his emotions are likely to take. Unfortunately as we've learned many times on this forum that strict NC seems to be the only way. The horrific part of that means you cutting out a lot of your social circle. Oh I really feel for you... .:'(

[GreenEyedMonster]

My guess would be that he will pull out of going through with the PPO, he might be crazy but surely he'll have a pretty sane lawyer, therapist or friend who'll tell him he won't stand a chance.

The worrying thing though is where he is heading with this with you. He is clearly very emotional on how he feels about you hence why it is displayed in anger. I'd be inclined to talk to someone about the course his emotions are likely to take. Unfortunately as we've learned many times on this forum that strict NC seems to be the only way. The horrific part of that means you cutting out a lot of your social circle. Oh I really feel for you... .:'(

My social circle is quickly catching on to his problems.  I think that when he understands that I can (and inevitably will) appeal the PPO and that he will have to hear his misdeeds read before a judge in a hearing, he will decide that isn't what he wants.  Right now I think he thinks the judge will issue one ex parte (without me present) and the whole thing will go down by mail.  No, crazy boy, it won't . . .

I called a lawyer today for a consultation and he said basically that heck will freeze over before this guy gets a PPO against me.

"This guy sounds a little crazy," remarks the lawyer.  Yes, yes he does.

[thisworld]

Oh, soo happy to hear that   (though I've had to check what "heck will freeze over" means before I could get happy

[GreenEyedMonster]

Oh, soo happy to hear that   (though I've had to check what "heck will freeze over" means before I could get happy

Yes, I have that from two lawyers now.  I'm just afraid of how angry he will become when he is denied.  His anger tends to come when he feels like a situation is out of his control, and this one is becoming more and more that way the more he tries to strong-arm it.  Incidentally, he RSVPed to an event I'm not going to, so he's apparently not afraid enough of me to hide his whereabouts.

[thisworld]

Oh, soo happy to hear that   (though I've had to check what "heck will freeze over" means before I could get happy

Yes, I have that from two lawyers now.  I'm just afraid of how angry he will become when he is denied.  His anger tends to come when he feels like a situation is out of his control, and this one is becoming more and more that way the more he tries to strong-arm it.  Incidentally, he RSVPed to an event I'm not going to, so he's apparently not afraid enough of me to hide his whereabouts.

He may be very angry but I think what matters is not how angry he feels but how much he acts out (violently). Someone may be very very angry but it doesn't automatically mean that they'll just lose it in extreme ways. Do you know of any incidents in his life where his anger resulted in something similar to what you are afraid of?

Why should he be afraid of you enough to hide his whereabouts? You have been nothing but polite and respectful to him.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Why should he be afraid of you enough to hide his whereabouts? You have been nothing but polite and respectful to him.

That's the whole problem.  If I were a terrible person, he could at least justify to himself the way he treated me!

[thisworld]

I remember a fruitful discussion about being painted white in a thread started by C.Stein. As far as I remember, we read being painted white along these lines.

However, if you think your ex has NPD, based on my personal experience I don't think he would need to justify anything to himself this way. The way you deem "good" or "terrible" has some founding in a framework of morals whereas for someone with NPD, what this person gives them (narcissistic supply) would be more relevant.Probably, NPD filters will do that for him already. Decompensation, from what I have seen, occurs when there is a major blow but this may be job related, a financial difficulty etc, too. Again, as far as I have seen in my life, this is not only due to something X does, but occurs when this cannot be compensated by other sources of supply. Basically,  this happens when they are depleted and the main regulatory supply (the "stable" relationship at home or wherever) is not there to provide supply through many methods. Then persecutory delusions begin - they are all out to get me!

So, I'd understand what's happening within the framework of his overall supply economy rather than trying to read it through the what is going on between you two only. Likewise, if he just finds a good supply, he may leave all of this at the speed of light - and ironically, then we may get a shock or an ego-wound because we are used to negative attention

I don't think a NPD's or BPD's whole mechanism can be understood solely from the perspective we have experienced as there will be an ego filter or a wall between them and us anyway - for instance, we may have been experiencing their feelings of helplessness as inconsideration.

If you have worries that he will go delusional and attempt to harm you, I'd suggest working with a therapist to find the right way to approach this - they may suggest different and even opposite ways after evaluating the situation. My T suggested gray rock and increasing supply and did wanted to spare other solutions for the future. My ex is now surprisingly out of my life and this happened very unexpectedly for me - so my anxiety subsided but I don't know if it should be there, which is anxiety making in itself    

[Turkish]

All hell could break loose.  That's what I'm worried about.

You say he talked about wanting to kill his previous ex. Is this what you mean by "all hell"? If that is a real threat, can you relocate? Because if you really think he might act on those threats with you, it sounds like you need to start planning. Please take steps to keep yourself safe. I am getting worried.

I just bought a house and I can't change jobs easily at all, so relocating isn't really an option.  My parents are encouraging me to take a gun class, however . . .

It sounds like your parents may fear for your life. That's them. How do you feel, apart from what they are saying?

[GreenEyedMonster]

All hell could break loose.  That's what I'm worried about.

You say he talked about wanting to kill his previous ex. Is this what you mean by "all hell"? If that is a real threat, can you relocate? Because if you really think he might act on those threats with you, it sounds like you need to start planning. Please take steps to keep yourself safe. I am getting worried.

I just bought a house and I can't change jobs easily at all, so relocating isn't really an option.  My parents are encouraging me to take a gun class, however . . .

It sounds like your parents may fear for your life. That's them. How do you feel, apart from what they are saying?

Well, now that a week has gone by, it feels more like this is going to go out with a whimper rather than a bang.  

I think one of two things happened:

-My ex applied for the PPO, got denied, and doesn't want to talk about it.

Or, more likely

-My ex got down to the courthouse and realized that getting a PPO isn't like getting a gumball out of a gumball machine.  Our county website neglects to mention that the other person can appeal the PPO in a court hearing.  I think that my ex's worst nightmare is losing control of the narrative that way.  Having to present his case in front of a judge, then listen to me list off all his misdeeds and how he has warped the information, would be his worst nightmare.  If the judge ruled in my favor -- which two lawyers say would definitely be the case -- then he would lose his defense mechanism security blanket.  As long as I am a "stalker," he is justified in what he did to me.  If a judge says I'm not a stalker, what then?  He has to deal with his own awfulness.  So he's not going to take me to court and risk losing his narrative.

He has started RSVPing to events on the fringes of our group of friends now.  I think that's a sign that he is realizing he has to find another way to deal with this.  It's entirely possible that thinking of me as a stalker will stop serving his purposes, and he'll change his mind.

The reason I was afraid is because my ex was plunging headlong into public humiliation, something he can't handle.  As long as he realizes this and backs off, I think this will eventually blow over.

[Suspicious1]

From what I can make of him, I'm not surprised this hasn't gone anywhere either. In your posts, you describe him as mostly a bit of an introvert, ok among a group of close friends on a surface level but unlikely to want to have deep and meaningfuls with anyone, particularly people he doesn't know. I can't imagine someone like that would be comfortable going to a court official and having to justify an accusation of stalking. Also, if he has a suspicion that the application might get turned down and you might hear about it, he can neither threaten you with a PPO anymore, nor tell people you're harassing him. In short, ALL his power disappears.

It seems like it's more useful to him to keep as a threat, like the Sword of Damocles. Hope you're less scared, though this must be far from comfortable for you.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Also, if he has a suspicion that the application might get turned down and you might hear about it, he can neither threaten you with a PPO anymore, nor tell people you're harassing him. In short, ALL his power disappears.

It seems like it's more useful to him to keep as a threat, like the Sword of Damocles. Hope you're less scared, though this must be far from comfortable for you.

Yes, absolutely.  I think he already knows that he's going to have to avoid me the old-fashioned way, because of the way his behavior has changed this week.  That makes him feel weak and controlled by me and he doesn't like it.  But he sure isn't going to share that the PPO isn't in the cards, because as you said, ALL his power disappears then.  He needs that threat both for himself and for others if he's not going to implode.

He's basically a narcissist, and I can't imagine the narcissistic injury that would occur if a judge lectured him on abusing the system!