Tonight was a break-through, although it's also really scaring me.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Tonight was REALLY bad. He had been dysregulating for about two hours during which I kept very calm,  not hooking into his tantrum. But this time he didn't just threaten to go to a massage parlour but went and got some condoms from our box and then left. He returned hour and a half later and threw the used condom on my lap. He then proceeded to get even more angry and told me that I need to watch my back cause he is going to pay someone to hurt me. After that last comment I broke. I began sobbing. He had gone into the living room and so I went in there and said that if he wanted me gone to just tell me, But that I didn't want to have someone hurt me. I was still sobbing and he rushed to me and began saying "no,no hunny. I'm not going to do that". As he was doing this I was gently trying to take his hands off me and saying please stop. He then began to tell me he only said what he did to get me to cry.  After saying a whole bunch of other things in that same vain he admitted that he didn't know why he does what he does. I then begged him to go to the Psychiatrist apt. that I have. I told him when he's angry in the future he could make the arrangement's to have someone hurt me. I said that he is a completely different person when he's in his rages. There have been few times in the last three years that he's admitted to having a problem, but hasn't admitted to it in a long time. Tonight was a break-through in a way. Although it's also really starting to scare me. If you read my last posting I stated that things are getting worse as we move closer to the Doc's apt date. He also continues to up the antie as we go too. I really need encouragement to stick to my goal of getting to the apt.

[NoSocks]

Tonight was REALLY bad. He had been dysregulating for about two hours during which I kept very calm,  not hooking into his tantrum. But this time he didn't just threaten to go to a massage parlour but went and got some condoms from our box and then left. He returned hour and a half later and threw the used condom on my lap. He then proceeded to get even more angry and told me that I need to watch my back cause he is going to pay someone to hurt me. After that last comment I broke. I began sobbing. He had gone into the living room and so I went in there and said that if he wanted me gone to just tell me, But that I didn't want to have someone hurt me. I was still sobbing and he rushed to me and began saying "no,no hunny. I'm not going to do that". As he was doing this I was gently trying to take his hands off me and saying please stop. He then began to tell me he only said what he did to get me to cry.  After saying a whole bunch of other things in that same vain he admitted that he didn't know why he does what he does. I then begged him to go to the Psychiatrist apt. that I have. I told him when he's angry in the future he could make the arrangement's to have someone hurt me. I said that he is a completely different person when he's in his rages. There have been few times in the last three years that he's admitted to having a problem, but hasn't admitted to it in a long time. Tonight was a break-through in a way. Although it's also really starting to scare me. If you read my last posting I stated that things are getting worse as we move closer to the Doc's apt date. He also continues to up the antie as we go too. I really need encouragement to stick to my goal of getting to the apt.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

You have at least two very big boundary issues there, and there were no consequences to him for crossing what should be two very firm boundaries.

I think you are relying too heavily on a T visit to fix him. You need to start working on your own boundaries now, or you are risking being devastated when you realize "someone else" is not going step in and fix him for you.

If something positive comes out of this appointment great, but you are putting too many eggs in a long shot.

You have to start protecting yourself and your own sanity first and regardless to what he may or may not do towards treatment. I wont kid you, you are in a hard place, but YOU are going to do the hard work for you, and it will be hard, no one else is likely to do it for you.

[NoSocks]

I feel that getting the diagnosis, at the very least moves us a baby-step closer to treatment. My H might very well discount the diagnosis and want to see another one. If this happens this puts us back another 6 months. But the Psychiatrist's that he is booked in with and where I am awaiting my appointment is one out of the two treatment clinics that offer DBT in our city. So these Doctor's will be able to confer with the BPD/DBT specialists as to my H diagnosis. I believe that treatment is THE ONLY answer for my H to get better. I know it is his choice. And in those little moments, those little windows of time that I get with the true him he tells me he doesn't want to be the way he is. I have done my research, joined my BPD support groups (both on-line and physically attending) and reached out to get a Registered Psychologist (just for me). I am trying my absolute best in this unchartered territory. I am trying to take care of myself and follow the help and coping skills given in the BPD books. Please understand that I am not pinning my hopes on a diagnosis. What I am doing is carrying my H while I am crawling on my knees to get to the Doctor's that know how to help us. Working through our medical system is taking time and taking it's toll on me, and in turn my H. My H condition has wrecked his whole life and now wants to do it to mine. The Doctor's are now my only hope of TRYING to fight this thing. If you know of a better way... . PLEASE TELL ME!

[arabella]

Yes, you need to go to the doctor's appts. Yes, he needs professional help. No, there is not a another solution that is going to make it better.

However... . A diagnosis could take weeks of consultations. If medication is prescribed, that often takes weeks, or even months, to become effective and to tweak doses/drug combinations. DBT therapy often makes a pwBPD worse before they get better (therapy can be, understandably, very triggering). So... . You need to start enforcing boundaries and taking care of yourself in the meantime.

Your H has escalated things to the level of threats of physical violence. He is throwing used condoms at you (this is disturbing on many levels). He is potentially risking your health through his sexual activities. What are you going to do about this? What are you doing to protect yourself? Have you reported his threats to the police? Are you still intimate with your H? Things are getting worse, not better - something needs to change!

[NoSocks]

Hi arabella. I do anticipate a very hard path with my H, but I need those therapists just as much as he does. Once we all know what we're dealing with, then I am sure I will be given the proper council. Because, as of right now all the medical staff that I see lean toward me leaving. And as you well know leaving a BPD is THE worst thing you can do. Having said that mouthful there is zero tolerance for violence and threats there of. What I don't know is what you do with a threatening of violence from a pre-diagnosed, never had a criminal record mentally ill husband that I love dearly and want to see make it to his Psychiatrists' appointment.  This is what kind of encouragement I need. We here on-line experience abuse of ALL SORTS, and still we ALL have a zero tolerance for it. But what happens when we can't go from A - Z and call the police (who will most likely treat my ill loved one terribly). What about going from A - B? That is a boundary I can handle in this can't-really-handle kind of situation.

[arabella]

When are your respective appointments? Will you be going to your H's appointment with him?

And as you well know leaving a BPD is THE worst thing you can do. Having said that mouthful there is zero tolerance for violence and threats there of.

Leaving is not the worst thing you can do. Escalating the situation, enabling, or allowing someone to be injured are the worst things you can do. Leaving can be implemented as a 'break' rather than abandonment and sometimes it is entirely necessary.

You say you have zero tolerence for abuse - yet he is clearly abusive and there are zero repercussions. This escalates the behaviour. Your H has even told you as much in saying that he keeps pushing "to get you to cry". He is willing to do whatever it takes, more and more each time, until you give him what he wants. You are reinforcing this behaviour.

Will the police treat your H poorly? Perhaps. But being threatened with violence and not having him take his hands off you when you ask IS being treated VERY poorly indeed. You could tell your H, when he is calm, that his recent behaviour is very disturbing to you and that you will have to call the police if it continues. If it does happen again, you MUST call the police, as you said you would. The fact that he has no prior record will work in his favour - for a little while. This forces your H to own his own behaviour and its consequences. This stuff is serious and it should be taken seriously.

Short of calling the police, you could also tell your H that, next time, you will be staying over at a friend's house for the evening in order to give yourself time to calm down. This is you removing yourself from harm's way. It gives you both time to think, keeps you safe, and it shows H that there are indeed consequences to his actions. If he treats you poorly, you will walk away from the situation and come back when things are more stable. You need to have plans in place well ahead of time (i.e. overnight bag packed, a place to go on short notice). If he tries to stop you - call the police. You may not want to tell him where you plan to stay if you think he might rage on your host in the future or follow you there.

[waverider]

As Arabella points out, doing whatever you can to get professional help is important, but it is only one cog in the whole procedure. In fact getting your H 'better" is only one part of the whole thing.

You must start having your own effective boundaries and consequences, along with learning to empower yourself so you are not cowed by his behavior. You will be in for a rough ride whether he attends treatment or not. You will need to work a lot on yourself regardless. You will both need YOU to be strong.

Even in therapy it gets worse before it gets better, and you are going to have to be cruel to be kind.

Many of us have been through this, it can get better, but it takes a long time and we have had to fix us first as like it or not you will have become dysfunctional by association.

I wish you all the best, and keep posting here. You will hear some hard opinions but you will learn more here than anywhere. This is your most valuable resource for regaining a healthy perspective on reality

[NoSocks]

This forces your H to own his own behaviour and its consequences. This stuff is serious and it should be taken seriously.

arabella, please help me to understand this concept that your trying to get across. Because if this stuff is so serious why haven't any of the medical community that I have seen done anything for my H and I's situation. I have been at Emergency rooms when H is wanting to commit suicide. And they send us away because H talks his way out of it. I have been directly told by a medical provider that "if your husband wants to commit suicide there's nothing you can do about, and nothing you can do to stop it". So if HARM is soo serious, and BPD is synonymous with violence against self and others, please tell me why everyone is leaving it up to us Non's that are beaten down, depressed and on the brink of a break-down to try and take a stand and do what we so clearly cannot do for our selves.

This is not pointed at you arabella, but at what us Non's face... . everyday!

[waverider]

This forces your H to own his own behaviour and its consequences. This stuff is serious and it should be taken seriously.

arabella, please help me to understand this concept that your trying to get across. Because if this stuff is so serious why haven't any of the medical community that I have seen done anything for my H and I's situation. I have been at Emergency rooms when H is wanting to commit suicide. And they send us away because H talks his way out of it. I have been directly told by a medical provider that "if your husband wants to commit suicide there's nothing you can do about, and nothing you can do to stop it". So if HARM is soo serious, and BPD is synonymous with violence against self and others, please tell me why everyone is leaving it up to us Non's that are beaten down, depressed and on the brink of a break-down to try and take a stand and do what we so clearly cannot do for our selves.

This is not pointed at you arabella, but at what us Non's face... . everyday!

Why indeed, with our case I got the same response after the 15th trip in an ambulance due to OD in a 4 month period. They monitor them recover from OD, then out the door again. These ODs were the result of her finally accepting diag of BPD.

Given the financial drain alone on the health system I have no idea why they continue to under resource this diosorder

[NoSocks]

All I'm trying to do is get my H and I to the appointment's that quite honestly can save our lives. (as you have pointed out, treatment is the answer to change for the better, even if that means worse first)  Please help me to do this. I am not asking you to spill every thought you have on the subject of coping skills, but more when I ask for the advise and at times just need to know you hear my pain. That's all. For now.

Thanks for being there. Walking one day at a time. One episode at a time.  : )

[Grey Kitty]

  I hope you can get the sort of help that will save you and your H's lives and your relationship. I know the feeling of being at the end of my rope.

This forces your H to own his own behaviour and its consequences. This stuff is serious and it should be taken seriously.

arabella, please help me to understand this concept that your trying to get across. Because if this stuff is so serious why haven't any of the medical community that I have seen done anything for my H and I's situation.

I also know that however much I *wanted* things to be fixed for me and my wife, I couldn't count on that. Yes, it is that serious. No, you can't count on anybody but yourself taking care of you.

I hit a place where I knew that if I didn't change things, there wouldn't be anything left of me to save, that I was on a path to becoming a shell of a person, and dangerously close to it. Fortunately around that time I found these forums, found the lessons here, and decided it was time for me to change things myself. I started enforcing some boundaries which did protect me from some things. Looking back, it was a turning point to getting where we are now.

We also had counseling and other help dealing with stuff. It wasn't just my boundaries. That was the start of a new chapter to me.

If nothing else, given the threats of physical violence, please look at the "safety first" link, or read about what you can do to protect yourself from domestic violence.

 GK

[Chosen]

First of all, I'm sorry you had to go through these rages and threats 

Even if he's in therapy, you can't be sure he will tell the therapist what happened, and knowing pwBPDs, he will probably try to hide anything that will paint him in a less-than-perfect light.  It will be a bonus if the T can help him, but are you willing to do nothing and wait for somebody else (your H, the T) to take action... . or not?

You say that going to the doc is your only hope.  I can tell you, it is not.  YOU are your hope.  Most pwBPDs of the nons here are not diganosed, or diagnosed but refusing treatment, me included.  That doesn't mean we're here waiting for doom, or for things to miraculously improve on their own.

If you are familiar with pwBPDs, you will know that they will do anything to get a reaction from you.  You sobbed, he won this round.  Sad to say, they do see any little argument as a me vs. you scenario, and they fight to win.  What boundaries can you put in place to protect yourself, so that the next time he threatened to go somewhere else for sex/ hurt you/ something else you don't need to just sit there and sob?

It is unfair that you are going through this treatment.  Please know that you have done nothing to deserve this.  But you also have to know that putting yourself in the "victim" mode will only make you weaker, and you need to be strong to withstand rages/ threate by a pwBPD.  Take care.

[waverider]

A full specialized course of treatment is probably best hope of a "cure', but it is still possible to have a relative calm RS without the BPD being cured. It can be managed, not for everyone, but can for some. The point being that a "cure" is not the only hope.

Do not give up on yourself if therapy appointment achieves little, they often have to be in the right mind space before it gets anywhere, which is why many Ts wont touch BPD as it often ends up going no where.

Bottom line is try everything, and don't give up if you dont at first succeed.

[MaybeSo]

RX,

In most homes were their is domestic violence, mental illness or substance use or both are almost always at play. Almost always.

Partners who are being abused are strengthened to make their safety and well being a priority, because the sickness pervades not just one, but both people, if safety is exchanged for rescuing and fixing of another person.

The disorders we deal with on this board are in many ways similar to an addiction model. If the drunk isn't really hurting anyone but himself, and doesn't want to be in recovery, the law, doctors, etc. Are limited in what they can do. If he hits someone or threatens his wife, she can call the police. But most don't call the police. So, the behavior isn't really met with natural consequences, and that is reinforcing.

There is an entire area of study surrounding the dependency issues of partners who hang around for abuse and chaos of the addict/mentally ill person. Wether it's temporary or permanent, part of getting healthy is about you getting more self directed and more involved with your own self care... . that includes leaving the scene when you are being abused. There is no good that comes from engaging and taking to heart or battling or personalizing the bizarre and hurtful behaviors of a ill person. Being there on the receiving end of such abusive behavior is not helping you or your husband. No therapist or doctor will allow him to behave that way in their office.  There would be very clear consequences.

You must take care of yourself in the moment; you must find away to unhook from all the angst and drama that these disorders create, and make your basic wellbeing and safety the top priority.  Your tears and staying while he  dysregulates (loses his mind)  in a most horrendous manner

may feel like love for him, but it is not helping.  it is reinforcing a sickness that affects both of you adversly. It would have been a blessing to both of you if you had not been there to have a dirty condom thrown at you. There are elements of this disorder that no doctor or institution can fix or rescue us from; it comes down to individuals taking basic, in the moment, steps to take care of themselves and rescue themselves.  It's not big and dramatic, it's lonely and very hard to do,  it's really really hard to do,  and it's the only thing

I know of guaranteed to actually  make things better.

[briefcase]

All I'm trying to do is get my H and I to the appointment's that quite honestly can save our lives. (as you have pointed out, treatment is the answer to change for the better, even if that means worse first)  Please help me to do this. I am not asking you to spill every thought you have on the subject of coping skills, but more when I ask for the advise and at times just need to know you hear my pain. That's all. For now.

Thanks for being there. Walking one day at a time. One episode at a time.  : )

We hear your pain.  

In fact, we've lived it.  We've been there.  We've had the same thoughts, hopes and fears that you are expressing here.  You aren't alone, not by a long shot.

There are a couple of ways life can improve.  Your husband might engage in the therapy, confront his own serious issues, work really hard for a period of years, and change in the ways that you want.  That's certainly possible, and we have members here who have seen this happen.  But, this path is your husband's to walk, it's his work to do, not yours.  You can support him along the way, but you can't walk this path for him.  Everyone here hopes that your husband chooses to do his work and that he gets better.

But, his path isn't the only path to a better life.  His recovery isn't the only hope for you.  There is a different path, one for you to walk regardless of what he does.  It's a path well worn by many of us before you.  It requires that you focus on yourself, that you take care of yourself, that you detach a bit emotionally from the rollercoaster emotions of your husband, that you learn new ways to listen and communicate with him, that you learn and enforce boundaries in your life.  A good place to start in by reading the Lessons.  

Because we can't control what our partners do and don't do, we don't spend very much time discussing the path we want our partners to walk.  We focus here on what we can control, which is ourselves.  What we're trying to tell you is that there are things you can do for yourself, right away, that will make your life better no matter what your husband does.  

We are here for you.  We are rooting for you (and your husband).  We're inviting you to walk a life-changing path that we've all chosen.  So, be assured we want your husband to make that doctor's appointment, but we want you to know there is more hope than that.  We're living proof.    

[yeeter]

Your H has escalated things to the level of threats of physical violence.

This jumps out at me.  I would recommend you call the DV hotline and discuss.  Perhaps make an escape plan, even if you never think you will need it. 

I understand that he came back and said he really didnt mean it, but who is to say that the next time he deregulates he wont take it to an even higher level? 

The DV services have other resources that can help you.

[Chosen]

I understand that he came back and said he really didnt mean it, but who is to say that the next time he deregulates he wont take it to an even higher level? 

He doesn't mean it when he's regulated, but he sure as heck meant it when he was dysregulated.  When he's dysregulated he won't remember whatever else he said/ promised when he was "sane".  I know it because I've lived with it.  He has gotten physical with me before and I had stayed.  He hit me then spent 2 days continuing to blame me. 

Then at the advice of my C I had set up my boundary.  I didn't have to wait till the next time he raises his hand.  He threatened to hit me, and I was out the door and only returned the next day.  He wasn't sorry for what he did.  He claimed because he didn't hit me I have no reason to leave, he provoked me by saying how would he know I didn't cheat on him?   I merely kept on repeating "I will leave the home when I feel that my safety is threatened, whether there was actual harm made to me or not.   I will go to a safe place."  Despite his asking and probing, I never told him where the place is (slept on the floor of my C's place, she lives near me).

[Blazing Star]

    

Sending you strength RX. You have been given some great advice by everyone here. We all care about you, have walked in your shoes, it is HARD.

So you will need strength, to be strong enough for you both.

And yes, as has been mentioned, be cruel to be kind. What are your thoughts around this? How would it feel to tell him that you love him, you are here to support him, and that it is no longer okay with you to be physically threatened, and that you will leave giving him time to calm down?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Love Blazing Star

[NoSocks]

It's very difficult with my H. He hates when I try to help him. He even goes as far as stops eating what I make for food. AND he doesn't cook for himself so this means he eats out for most of his meals. Although when this is happening he only eats pizza that he buys once a day. He has lost soo much weight, which he knows but will tell me it's because of me.

[NoSocks]

You see, the thing with my H is that he tells me, and he acts it out, that he really doesn't care if I stay or go. Apathy. Some of the things like this that he does also makes me think he has NPD. He is the only one to get the mail key, thus getting the mail. He will not let me pay bills. He won't even let me do his laundry because I do it wrong. He has been diagnosed with OCD. Anything that I tell him, like "pls don't speak to me disrespectfully." He will just say F you. Because he's dysregulated.

[MaybeSo]

He will just say F you. Because he's dysregulated.

and because there are no real consequences to his poor behavior and no motivation to learn to manage his own dysregulated states.  If as babies we were brought a bottle by a fretful mom every time we cried and this continued past the state of being able to get up on our own and get our own bottle... . ... . we would all still be dysregulated babies and would view the world as a place to find caretakers who feel their job is to witness our tantrums and tend to us at will no matter what. There is nothing magical or special about dyregulation, everyone dysregulates at times.  We would all like to just dysregulate at-will and have someone hovering and tending and fretting and fixing for us, except that we would stay stuck developmentally.  

It's very difficult with my H. He hates when I try to help him. He even goes as far as stops eating what I make for food. AND he doesn't cook for himself so this means he eats out for most of his meals. Although when this is happening he only eats pizza that he buys once a day. He has lost soo much weight, which he knows but will tell me it's because of me.

A stuck person will allow you to enable and then hate you for it.

There's a short stage when this happens to a degree, and that stage of life is called infancy, but we are not meant to stay there and the way we move forward is through NOT having every need met by others. We either stay in infancy, or go through the pain of growing up (which involves some hatred or serious dislike for our parents at some point in the process as we individuate), or we perish.  This is a choice he makes; if he has 24/7 caretaker, his choice to stay an infant is reinforced and pretty much a no-brainer.

NPD = King Baby

Do not ask "king baby" to please respect you. Do not give a baby that kind of power.

We don't ask for respect from spoilt children, we model it to them, we show respect for ourselves and them through having adult boundaries, ... . a large part of modeling is watching a grown adult take care of themselves in reasonable ways over and over and over again... that is how a child learns to 'grow up'. We do not teach a child to grow up by being their slaves or their servants.

He's a grown man. He can eat or choose NOT to eat.  If he eats pizza, that is his choice. Leave it alone.  If he does something that puts his life at risk, you call 911 and let the professionals step in.  You are not his mother. We only get one chronological childhood... . that ship has sailed.  

[waverider]

We don't ask for respect from spoilt children, we model it to them, we show respect for ourselves and them through having adult boundaries, ... . a large part of modeling is watching a grown adult take care of themselves in reasonable ways over and over and over again... that is how a child learns to 'grow up'. We do not teach a child to grow up by being their slaves or their servants.

I will second this, biggest improvements I have made with my partner is when cut back on the rescuer and started becoming a stronger more independent role model. She has acknowledge this her self. When I mean setting standards it is more about what I do rather than demanding standards from her (Showing rather than controlling, demands =controlling>>defensive lash back in response) Boundaries are about protecting me rather than trying to get her to conform.

[NoSocks]

I've tried to do this. Many times. From leaving him (twice). To trying while being here with him. But thing with my H is that he doesn't care either way. He will go on in life, going from girl to girl. His family not only enables him but will defend his behavior. I really thought the if I fought with everything I had, and that he could be brought in front of the right Doc. something would change for the better. That from that point him and his Doc. could walk the path of healing. I was very vulnerable when I first met my H, I saw the red flags as they appeared but at the time I didn't have it in me to stop the relationship. The days leading up to the wedding he acted as though he didn't want it. And the day after he ripped the rings of my hand and said he wanted to annul the marriage. That was three years ago and he has gone between saying that was all true to saying it wasn't true ever since. I KNOW he has something severly wrong, all my experiences match to a T of those who have H w/BPD. He has a solid 6 out of 9 criteria of the DSM 4. However, with how he is and how he is treated by his family I think this is going to be it for us. I think I have reached my line. I'm soo angry, soo emotional, soo tired and soo wanting my needs to count. He is running now. Away from the T appointment. And I've known that if that was to happened I would have to make some decisions. I'm crying even now at all that I feel after three years of horrific daily battles. And that he's giving me up in return for the safety of not having to deal with his stuff. Early on in our relationship and marriage he did distortion campaigns of me to his family. Even today when talking to him he admitted it was wrong and I didn't do anything of the likes of which he told them. This is something to which he never really corrected with them. So when he tells them were not together they'll be feeling that he's better off. Even though I fought for his sanity, and healing.

[123Phoebe]

Even though I fought for his sanity, and healing.

RX  X 1000!

Sometimes our intentions are so pure, they just happen to be aimed at wrong person... .

We end up fighting so hard for them that we forget about ourselves :'(

Can you show yourself a bit of that compassion?  With a passion!

[NoSocks]

123PHOEBE... . Thank you soo much for your hugs... . I am soo sad right now. My H came home about 40 min's ago, saw the house up side down as I am beginning to pack as he's told me wants a legal separation/divorce, came in as I was writing on here and weeping and hugged me. I told him no I couldn't keep going through this. He then wanted to talk. He has admitted all the same things he normally does after a dysregulated episode. I just don't know what to do.

[Blazing Star]

He has admitted all the same things he normally does after a dysregulated episode. I just don't know what to do.

So he normally apologizes and life goes on until it happens again... . this is where you need to do NOT what you normally would do, could you go away for a few days? He needs to see that you are serious this time. For me it was sleeping on the sofa for 3 nights and then moving out for two weeks that was the catalyst for mine to make some changes.

Love Blazing Star

[NoSocks]

I have done that before and it only allows him to begin building his new persona if I let things go on. At this point I am continuing to pack and he isn't physically stopping me, as he has done in the past. I'm not sure what the next few days hold, or even the next few weeks. His emotions are always up and down. He says he feels like quitting his job now, but I'm pretty sure he won't as it's too valuable to him, short term and long term. He needs them as a reference when applying to the military. He's in the other room watching tv and I'm in the bedroom continuing to pack and organize my belongings, and I find it soo hard as this situation is soo abnormal. I'm trying to allow myself to feel the emotions that are coming up, within reason, and to allow myself to feel empty and tired. But, all that he would have to do is take that first step and be honest with me. Tell me when the date of his appointment is (as he's kept it from me), and go in and see what they say. Part of me just doesn't get this mess. I'm just going on a bit here, I'm just really sad.

[MaybeSo]

It is natural to feel sad. I am sorry and understand how difficult this is and I hope you are okay this morning.

I get that our Leaving, even temporarily, may result in further upsetting behaviors, but here is the hard truth.

You cannot control this man.

The only person you can control is yourself.

For most of us, getting better involved letting go of trying to control another person.

Your H may have 9/9 symptoms of BPD as well as other issues going on too but in our society being a jerk isn't against the law, unless he is actually breaks the law.

He can be a bad husband, go to prostitutes, sport a new personna and see other girls, curse and swear at you, and have a very poor diet.

None of this except for possibly the prostitution, is against the law. Heck, he can sport multiple personalities all day and 2x on Sunday.

Society presumes that when presented with hurtful or antisocial behavior, individuals will take steps to distance themselves as needed.  We can't wait for doctors or cops to do that for us. Even if there is a mental illness at play, we have to take control of our own lives. If he were 12 years old, the picture would be a bit different, but he is a grown man.

Staying in an abusive relationship (being there for the abuse) out of fear that your distance will allow him to act out elsewhere...

That isn't sustainable, is it? We can't control another adults behaviors.

My ex dysregulates and wanders off to find other women, too. He just did that again, so I can't be with him now. I have to distance from myself from the behavior I find hurtful, that is my job to take care of myself.  He is 49 years old. This is his choice, and I can't control him, he is not my child. He doesn't get to be with me when he's acting that way,  though. There are, or at least should be, consequences to our behaviors and choices mental illness or not.

And these relationships are incredibly difficult, I'm sorry you are feeling sad. These r/s are very tuff.  

[NoSocks]

Well, I have an update. Last night was a whirlwind of experiences. At one point my H started asking about this new info that I received on Thursday of last week, concerning a counceling clinic that offered the full three stages of DBT treatment. I had the chance to say a few things about BPD, and a few important bits about the lady who is the founder and anexpert in BPD and DBT. I thought when I told him the price per hour he would say no way, but instead he went on to say that there would be no way he was going to go if I wasn't going, "you HAVE to come if I go". I then informed him of two important factors: one, the treatment will most likely be more than just $200 an hour, we will probably be looking at a substantial figure from start to finish, and second and most positively important to him is that it DOESN'T go on his record. This is extremely important to him as he has wanted to pursue a career in the military. In the short half hour that I spent on the phone with this knowledgeable DBT lady, she was compassionate and had a keen understanding of the position us Non's have and how absolutely important it is to have both support and counseling for me and to have the FULL 3 stages (24 hour on call counseling) for the suffers. I told him I was going to make an appointment with her a week from this Wednesday and he hasn't contested. Things got worse after that, and even this morning (I slept in the living room) he came in and started in again on me. I did mention that I was still planning to make to appointment, and he still didn't contest my statement. So there's something appealing about this new development that makes him feel he can do it. As you have come to see I'll take anything at this point.  You are absolutely right about things getting worse before they get better. But knowing I will have support for me will be a new experience, and one that I'm looking forward to having. Our apt. is in disarray and I will try and seek advice about what I should do when I make to call to the DBT specialist. I know she will not tell me what to do about moving out, however her input as to what my best options are that would help both him and I will make my decision more informed. Thanks again for being there.

[MaybeSo]

Good luck with appointments and let us know how things proceed.

[NoSocks]

I have just come from a meeting with my Aunt who I have been sharing my situation with. She is someone who's opinion I value and felt that her input would bring further clarity. I needed to hear her thoughts on me going to see the BPD specialist that's in another city. One of the main points I discussed was the substantial high fee's and even higher treatment fee's. Including the nauseating fact that there are no guaranties of success. In general, as of late I am trying to collect feed back about whether or not this is a reasonable option for my H and myself. I am trying to take everyone's advice, from family, friends, here on-line and from professionals. Also, I have come to the decision that if my H doesn't journey toward getting treatment then I have to know I can't live in the same place with him. After my lunch with my Aunt I have reached the decision to make an appointment for myself to see this person in another City who specializes in BPD/DBT. I feel her input on the decisions I make at this crucial time would lead my H and I to have a healthier outcome, verses not having her help and making uninformed choices that wouldn't be healthy for either of us. I think it's worth visiting her a few times. That I CAN afford. Just form the short half hour conversation I had with her I know she could help me. And if I'm the first one to meet with her, I think I would greatly benefit from what directions she gives to navigate what I'm in. She was trained under Dr. Linehan herself.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Our local DBT centers have pre therapy before starting on the course. This is to ensure clients are at a stage where they have the commitment required to attend the course.

Especially when you consider the costs required flunking it after a couple of visits because they are not really ready is a big worry