Ex-partner accepts firm boundaries?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello, this is my first post. I've been reading for sometime and it's been very helpful to feel less alone and to make more sense of things.

So, my experience. I've been in a relationship for about 2 years with a person I believe has BPD and/or some other pd. There's no diagnosis but so much resembles other stories here. A phase of idealisation and devalue, a complete lack of accountability and impossibility to admit any mistakes, episodes of paranoia when highly stressed, an overreaction to criticism. Projection and gaslightning. Fear of rejection. Splitting. Etc.

When we met everything went very fast and we spent a lot of time together. I was traveling for work and the nature of his work made it possible for him to join me. I didn't mind that, we had a good time together and I really liked being with him. I am also quite impulsive, which is maybe one of the reasons I was attracted to him. We had fun together. We had similiar interests and goals and it felt like a good match. So when I very unexpectedly became pregnant we decided to keep the child. At the time, I think he was more certain of that it than I was. I remember being very confused at first.

The first months were sweet, and he showed great care and affection for our daughter. But somewhere things started to change. We hade more and more arguments that we weren't able to resolve afterwards. Often because he said he didn't remember, or he claimed he never said the things he did say. He started accusing me of lying and manipulating, but when I asked about what he couldn't say. He was afraid I would leave him, but then one day he suddenly left after a silly argument over a bill. Next day he contacted me, told me he loved me and couldn't live without me. There was so much drama and pain and confusion over the next months. He disappeared and came back, as if nothing had happend. It was the most painful time of my life and I felt crazy at times. So much has happened and I hope I can share more about it later. There are so many questions. Finally I said I needed a break, in order to be able to work on our relationship. First he seemed to understand, but the next day he got back, saying that that was it, it was over. No explanation. Although later, he didn't want to take responsibility for breaking up.

I have used some of the tools here and its been very helpful. I was also fortunate to get in contact with an ex-partner to my ex, who had a very similiar experience with him (no child, though). She has been very supportive and its been validating and soothing to talk to her. I think (I hope) I am past the worst stage in detaching from this relationship but since we have a child togheter its complicated and I worry about his behaviour towards her.

I wanted to share this but also ask about something I found interesting. I have noticed that reasoning with my ex rarely works, just endless circular arguments, no logic. But when I firmly state what I will do or give clear directions he follows them. He may say something mean, but he doesn't argue with me. It's not something I enjoy or feel its apropriate in an equal adult relation, but it works. Maybe this isn't about firm boundaries, but something else? Can you relate to this?

[mims]

Hello, this is my first post. I've been reading for sometime and it's been very helpful to feel less alone and to make more sense of things.

So, my experience. I've been in a relationship for about 2 years with a person I believe has BPD and/or some other pd. There's no diagnosis but so much resembles other stories here. A phase of idealisation and devalue, a complete lack of accountability and impossibility to admit any mistakes, episodes of paranoia when highly stressed, an overreaction to criticism. Projection and gaslightning. Fear of rejection. Splitting. Etc.

When we met everything went very fast and we spent a lot of time together. I was traveling for work and the nature of his work made it possible for him to join me. I didn't mind that, we had a good time together and I really liked being with him. I am also quite impulsive, which is maybe one of the reasons I was attracted to him. We had fun together. We had similiar interests and goals and it felt like a good match. So when I very unexpectedly became pregnant we decided to keep the child. At the time, I think he was more certain of that it than I was. I remember being very confused at first.

The first months were sweet, and he showed great care and affection for our daughter. But somewhere things started to change. We hade more and more arguments that we weren't able to resolve afterwards. Often because he said he didn't remember, or he claimed he never said the things he did say. He started accusing me of lying and manipulating, but when I asked about what he couldn't say. He was afraid I would leave him, but then one day he suddenly left after a silly argument over a bill. Next day he contacted me, told me he loved me and couldn't live without me. There was so much drama and pain and confusion over the next months. He disappeared and came back, as if nothing had happend. It was the most painful time of my life and I felt crazy at times. So much has happened and I hope I can share more about it later. There are so many questions. Finally I said I needed a break, in order to be able to work on our relationship. First he seemed to understand, but the next day he got back, saying that that was it, it was over. No explanation. Although later, he didn't want to take responsibility for breaking up.

I have used some of the tools here and its been very helpful. I was also fortunate to get in contact with an ex-partner to my ex, who had a very similiar experience with him (no child, though). She has been very supportive and its been validating and soothing to talk to her. I think (I hope) I am past the worst stage in detaching from this relationship but since we have a child togheter its complicated and I worry about his behaviour towards her.

I wanted to share this but also ask about something I found interesting. I have noticed that reasoning with my ex rarely works, just endless circular arguments, no logic. But when I firmly state what I will do or give clear directions he follows them. He may say something mean, but he doesn't argue with me. It's not something I enjoy or feel its apropriate in an equal adult relation, but it works. Maybe this isn't about firm boundaries, but something else? Can you relate to this?

[Turkish]

This may seem silly,  but my ex and I would often get stuck on something simple like deciding where to go out to eat.  I thought I was being generous (and not controlling, because one of her fears was being controlled), but we'd end up going around on circles,  frustrating both of us. 

Realizing this helped me coparent. I've made the school decisions for the past five years because she waa all over the place: skip grades because the kids are "geniuses." Transfer schools (she's moved 4 times in less than six years into 3 different school districts; whereas,  I've remained in the original home and district). Transfer schools because she had a few issues including being called into the principal's office 3 years ago for threatening another parent... .such issues are hers and will follow her.  I know that but I didn't tell her.  Things have been ok this past year. 

Being steady and firm without shaming is possible in a lot of these situations. 

What's the custody situation like and how is your baby doing? Is three a legal stipulation?

[once removed]

hi mims, and

Hello, this is my first post. I've been reading for sometime and it's been very helpful to feel less alone and to make more sense of things.

im glad you decided to reach out. it really does help, huh? i hope youll stick around and make yourself at home as part of the family here. this place has taught me lessons that will last me a life time, and supporting others can further our growth and keeps us sharp. there are certainly co-parenting tools here that can help you navigate and make the best of a tough situation.

so, thats all quite a whirlwind. how long ago was the breakup? how are you taking it?

[MeandThee29]

I've learned that reasonable personal boundaries are a part of good relationships. It is OK for me to decide on a boundary that my partner doesn't like as long as it is well-considered. And yes, it cuts the debate when I hold a boundary that I'm firm on.

Not long ago I set a boundary that was worked out with my counsellors. It made him very unhappy, but I know that it is right.

[mims]

Turkish, thanks for the reply.
Yeah I understand, not wanting to be controlling and giving your partner space to decide and make choices. Looking back, im also trying to find clues in little things and behaviour that may seem silly or not important.

Our daugther is almost 2 and in nursery and so far I've made all those decisions (where and when to start etc) because he just wasn't interested. It made me sad, but that's ok. We have shared custody and when we first separated about a year ago, she lived with me and we made a schedule for visitation that worked for some time. He didn't come with any suggestions, but were always ok with mine. Until it didn't work for some reason. I did a new one. Worked for some time etc. It was not a good solution and I wasn't in a good place to sort it out better. I was very confused, sad and also angry. Still hoping to make our relationship work.

This spring we had professional help to sort the situation out for some time. Not legal but mediating through social services (an option in our country). They can set up a legal stipulation. Im not sure its the same thing though, but something that works as a legal agreement. But now he doesn't want to go to those meetings anymore. So we have no agreement. He sees her sometimes and i'll just let it be that way for now.  We only have email contact atm, to try an minimize conflicts.

I do worry about my daughter a lot, but I think she's doing fine. She's still so little but seems happy and secure. But I worry about her dads jack in thw box behaviour, and I worry about my own strenght and ability to be a good mother in this situation.

Are your ex ok with you making all decisions?

[mims]

Thank for the welcome!
yes it does help to reach out, thanks for being here. And i hope I some day will be able to support others aswell.

We finally broke up in March, but were still in close contact, mostly because of our daughter. I was a mess. Anxious, confused, sad, afraid. I tried to distance myself but it was hard. Journaling, counselling, long long walks, my daugther, reading, a support group. I tried everything and it was helpful. Around Aug/Sep I started feeling better. About a month ago i decided to limit our contact to emails only. closest to NC I can do now because of our daughter. I tried this before but couldn't keep it. But after that I feel a difference, I feel calmer, more balanced. Not well, but ok. I feel I can start to explore why I ended up in this relationship in the first place. What my own issues are. My own fears.

I still try to understand what happen and try to accept that maybe i just can't understand.

[MeandThee29]

I still try to understand what happen and try to accept that maybe i just can't understand.

Yes, accept it for what it is. I spent months and months trying to reason it out, how it could have happened and whether I could have done things differently. Totally unproductive. You have to live in the present.

[Mutt]

Hi mims,



I'd like to join the others and welcome you to bpdfamily, I'm glad that you decided to join us after lurking for awhile.

I did a new one. Worked for some time etc. It was not a good solution and I wasn't in a good place to sort it out better. I was very confused, sad and also angry. Still hoping to make our relationship work.

This spring we had professional help to sort the situation out for some time. Not legal but mediating through social services (an option in our country). They can set up a legal stipulation. Im not sure its the same thing though, but something that works as a legal agreement. But now he doesn't want to go to those meetings anymore. So we have no agreement. He sees her sometimes and i'll just let it be that way for now.  We only have email contact atm, to try an minimize conflicts.

You probably already know this but you need black and white boundaries with a pwBPD there's a lot of grey area with the rest of the population when it comes to boundaries but you have to spell it out with no ambiguity because that gives a HCP (high conflict personality ) a opportunities and reasons to create conflict. I think that there's a bit of fog here too with how he uses his feelings to get things that he wants.

You a need a legal agreement - so if he doesn't feel like going then does that mean that you can't have an agreement? What if mediation doesn't work what's your next option?

[Turkish]

Are your ex ok with you making all decisions?

My T observed a few years ago,  "I think that she respects you and you can use that,  but don't overdo it."

I spin things on what's best for us and the kids.  I really thought that age was going to try and transfer the kids to another school even last year.  I wouldn't say that I make all of that decisions but the most significant ones. 

Another little thing: she suggested this week to try meditation with S8. He's ASD1 (what they used to call Asperger's) so he sometimes hyper-focuses to the detriment of forgetting to do routine tasks. Instead of saying that was ridiculous,  I suggested that he'd meditate on Pokemon (he does anyway) and that mindfulness might be a better way to go.  She agreed. 

One of the core feelings of a pwBPD (person with BPD) is shame (lack of self worth) which underlies the emotional dysregulatuon. The key is not to trigger that.  He might be not engaged as a father so much due to fear of failure.  That's just a theory, but pwBPD often run from their problems because they might not be able trio handle them emotionally.  My mother with BPD did that her whole life,  ending up losing two properties (in addition to two others when I was a kid). Easier to run, unable to cope. 

[mims]

Yes, accept it for what it is. I spent months and months trying to reason it out, how it could have happened and whether I could have done things differently. Totally unproductive. You have to live in the present.

Oh, my rational brain knows this but its still hard. I'm trying to accept that I have mixed feelings, that I still shift from hope (less) to accptance. That its also part of detaching and healing.

You probably already know this but you need black and white boundaries with a pwBPD there's a lot of grey area with the rest of the population when it comes to boundaries but you have to spell it out with no ambiguity because that gives a HCP (high conflict personality ) a opportunities and reasons to create conflict. I think that there's a bit of fog here too with how he uses his feelings to get things that he wants.

You a need a legal agreement - so if he doesn't feel like going then does that mean that you can't have an agreement? What if mediation doesn't work what's your next option?

Thanks for the welcome!

I think I am aware of this and I try to use different tools to limit conflict, but sometimes I forget and try to reason like I would with someone without a pd (a non?). Maybe thats part of being in the fog? I still get very confused when he says one thing, does the opposite and also blames me for it. I try to not JADE. I often answer that I have a different experience and that we can meet with a neutral mediator to resolve the situation.

Yes, if he doesn't want to go, we have no agreement. Its frustrating. I have a meeting this week with social services to get advice on how to handle the situation and different options.

He might be not engaged as a father so much due to fear of failure.  That's just a theory, but pwBPD often run from their problems because they might not be able trio handle them emotionally.   

I think this is spot on. And it is very sad. I know he has a lot of fears and we were able to talk about some of these before. He says he misses his daughter and that he wants to be there for her and I believe him. But he is just not able to sustain. He disappears and comes up with excuses. And blames me for it. And even though I can understand that he is hurt and afraid, I need to find a good way to handle the situation and his behaviour.

Your example of letting your ex choose mindfulness for your son was nice and helpful. Thanks! Not shaming and encouraging the positive. Im trying.

I sometimes get the feeling that he wants me to decide and to give him clear directions. That he wants me to control him, in a way. Sure, he wants to argue but he still asks me for clear directions. For example, on when to pick up our daughter up from nursery when he sees her. Or when to drop her off at my place. Is this a form of re-parenting?

[MeandThee29]

One of the core feelings of a pwBPD (person with BPD) is shame (lack of self worth) which underlies the emotional dysregulatuon. The key is not to trigger that.  He might be not engaged as a father so much due to fear of failure.  That's just a theory, but pwBPD often run from their problems because they might not be able trio handle them emotionally.  My mother with BPD did that her whole life,  ending up losing two properties (in addition to two others when I was a kid). Easier to run, unable to cope. 

This is key. As much as is possible, don't say anything that triggers shame. They know that their close relationships aren't right, so if you point out anything remotely related to that, they may spiral emotionally. Mine moved far, far away when we separated and immediately started dividing things and moving towards making it long-term all the while talking about reconciliation. Now I know that the distance was a way of running from the problems and dividing things right away was tallionic thinking. Not at all healthy actions on the part of someone who talked reconciliation on the surface. And I shouldn't have been expected to overlook all of that. People who are ready for reconciliation don't do the things that mine did.

[once removed]

I sometimes get the feeling that he wants me to decide and to give him clear directions. That he wants me to control him, in a way. Sure, he wants to argue but he still asks me for clear directions. For example, on when to pick up our daughter up from nursery when he sees her. Or when to drop her off at my place. Is this a form of re-parenting?

it may be a form of helplessness or dependency.

people with traits of this disorder, as you know, are generally needy. at the same time, they resent themselves for having needs. they resent others for their own, or someone elses inability, to meet them.

I think I am aware of this and I try to use different tools to limit conflict, but sometimes I forget and try to reason
... .
I try to not JADE.

as you learn and practice, think of the tools as more of a lifestyle rather than trying to put out fires. i use them with everyone. as they become ingrained, our natural/instinctive go tos tend to be the more mature, more conflict resolution focused response.

I often answer that I have a different experience and that we can meet with a neutral mediator to resolve the situation.

this, for example, can be both an example of good boundaries, and positive triangulation.

[mims]

This is key. As much as is possible, don't say anything that triggers shame. They know that their close relationships aren't right, so if you point out anything remotely related to that, they may spiral emotionally.

I can understand this but find it hard to avoid. It feels like everything concering our daughter coud be a potential trigger. For example, if I ask if she had a nap when she was with him (something that I would also ask nursery) he gets defensive. So I don't do this. If he gives me suggestions that I think aren't at all good for our daughter I question these. For example, he wants her to live with him for two weeks in a row, and I suggest shorter stays based on how it's been in the past and professional advice. She's only 2.

I understand that the best thing for us both is to get distance and detach. Thats what I'm trying to do. And to get a proper agreement for visitation. But until we have that I try to find a way that works for them see each other because I know my daughter misses her father. I also believe that he grows when he sees her and sees that he is able to take care of her. But I really don't know if im doing the right thing.

as you learn and practice, think of the tools as more of a lifestyle rather than trying to put out fires. i use them with everyone. as they become ingrained, our natural/instinctive go tos tend to be the more mature, more conflict resolution focused response.

Thanks for the advice. It sounds very healthy. I remember trying to change my reactions in our conflicts, to resits the urge to fight (argue) back. It was hard but very helpful and rewarding in that it not only changed his reactions but also my on feelings about the situation on a deeper level. Would be nice to work more on that.