so here we are again.

[js friend]

Hi all,

I used to post frequently on this board a few years ago when my udd was a teenager. OMG those times were really tough. The support and advice i got at the time really helped me through some really difficult times with udd who was totally out of control at the time. Actually I would go as far to say that this site actually saved my sanity.

Ok, on to more recent events.....udd now 30 has stopped me from seeing my grandkids for the last 3 years.She has done this before then re-engaged with me because she wasnt in a relationship and had no-one to look after the kids to give her a break. Now she has a new man things are different.

How this situation came about was  I spoke to her about the way she was treating her kids as eldest child was coming to me saying how  udd was mistreating her and her sister. She would deny them food, put them to stand outside and other abusive things. One time i actually saw what i thought was a bruise on my grand daughters face. Of course udd jumped up and said it came from the kids playfighting each other. Now udd has a new baby with the new man. I only know this because I went round to udds house a few months ago in the hope to give the kids some gifts. The kids were not there and udd refused the gifts.

I bumped into the  2 eldest kids father a while ago(they broke up years ago)and he said that the kids are always asking to see me. That had me in tears as i thought they had forgotten me by now. I didnt have my phone on me at the time so I didnt get his number. My family dont want to get involved. They just say that when the kids get older they will come to see me.How does anyone know this? Ive even thought of standing outside their school just to get a glimpse of them but then again I wouldnt want them to think that they have to keep it a secret from udd.

So this is my predictament. Do I chance going around udds house again, or should I try to get in touch with the kids father?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Ourworld]

Hi friend,

I am afraid I cannot necessarily ‘relate’ to your situation but I can empathize, and I am sure this is truly heartbreaking.
As difficult as this may be, try not to feel as if you are responsible for your grandchildren. Live your life and find peace and happiness-as someone said, ‘a happy granny is better than a stressed one’!

If you can, reach out to their father and simply ask him to give them your phone number and to let them know that you are always there for them.

Then just get on with your own life and bloom with the love and happiness these children will need when they are old enough or need to connect with you.

I wish you peace and comfort, Ourworld

[Sancho]

Hi js friend
I am so sorry you are in this situation. My experience with my BPD dd is that she constantly has me cornered. You are in a similar situation I feel.

First of all the dilemma: the children are reporting neglect etc - what do you do? When you choose the welfare of the children you end up being alienated from them. Now you meet up with their father - and that seems like an opening - but will it push you into another corner.

First of all personally I wouldn't try going around to dd's again. In my experience it would only make my dd more determined to keep me away.

Then I thought that perhaps contacting the dad would be an option, but you are right when you say it is not good for the children to have secrets. If you organised to meet them somehow when they are at their dad's, how would dd react to that - would the children be penalised?

I'm now wondering if you found the dad and perhaps gave him some things to keep at his place for them? If they mentioned playing with things from you, they could honestly say they haven't seen you - so that might be a possible first step?

Do you mind asking me how old the children are?

If they are talking to their dad about you it is a pretty good sign you are in the hearts and on their mind, and I think their would be every possibility they will make contact when they are of an age.

I will keep thinking about this, but atm I am drawn towards the idea of finding the dad and having a good, clear discussion about the situation and asking if he would mind you leaving a few things at his place for them to feel connected to you.

What are you thoughts on this suggestion?

[CC43]

Hi JS,

I feel for you.  I have a diagnosed stepdaughter in her mid-20s.  For a long time, she had periods when she would cut off contact with her dad, blaming him for all her own problems and poor choices.  During those periods of estrangement (I dubbed them her "adult time-outs," she'd rely on her mother for support, until she got furious at her mother and had to come back to her dad.  The back-and-forth went on for years.  The divorced family dynamic and associated parental guilt had a role in perpetuating (and rewarding) this behavior in my opinion.  But she always came back, when she needed something.  Your daughter's case is a bit different, but I suspect she'll only have relations with you when she needs something from you (money, babysitting, etc.), and only after she's burned bridges with all her other support systems.  You are her last option, precisely because you are the most important person to her in the world.  She thinks she "hates" you more than anyone else because she's convinced that you're the reason she's so unhappy, and she resents being dependent on you.  But I think that she's basically re-directing self-hatred your way, as seems to be the case with BPD.

My stepdaughter would also refuse gifts, kind messages and other nice gestures during her "time outs."  I think it was her way of trying to say, I don't care, you're awful; you don't get to feel better by giving me a gift; I want you to feel as horrible as I do.  Maybe it was her way of reminding her dad that SHE controls HIM.  When her emotions seemed out of control, refusing a gift appeared to be a way to recapture some control, while sending a mean message.  And the more he tried to reach out, the more she would double-down.  So I'd say, don't "bribe" or "beg" her with gifts or attention, because it perpetuates the negative behavior.  Set the gifts aside until she's in a more stable place and can interact with you appropriately, like an adult.

I'm not sure how to advise you regarding the grandchildren.  Your relationship with the ex-SIL seems too tenuous to explore that route.  Maybe what you could do is set aside money that you'd otherwise spend on gifts and create a college fund for their benefit as they get older.  Maybe you write them letters, but wait to send them until such time that you'll know they'll receive them.  I wouldn't doubt that your daughter will bad-mouth you to the grandkids, so they might not have a fair opinion of you.  But I bet they will figure things out as they get older.  It's a shame, but BPD is complex and very hard to live with.

[js friend]

Thankyou all for the replies

Sancha~ I love your suggestion for leaving things at dads home but not sure if he even has a home. The gkids are now 8 and 10 yrs old. udd and kids dad broke up a few years ago and he hadnt seen the kids in a few years. He was tracked down and brought back in to have contact with them by ss/cps when the contact with me broke down and shortly before new b/f came on the scene. When I bumped into him again he told me that he hadnt seen his kids again for a few months. I dont know why this time but the time before that he said that ss/cps was stressing him out and making too many demands....such as having a stable place to live to take them to because udd didnt want him in her home .They suggested he see them at a contact centre which  I thought was reasonable but he outright refused saying that  ss/cps werent going to tell him what to do.

Ourworld~I know that kids dad is on Facebook so I will try to contact him there with my phone number. You are right that I need to be happy and healthy as the worry and stress from all this has taken  so much out of me and my body often reacts badly to it.

CC43~ I know that udd's hatred towards me is all projection. She hates herself really. I would even say that she has some jealousy towards me too. Ive even seen her hate on her past friends and other relationships with the love hate stuff. The things she says about me are often laughable and are often the opposite of who Iam. My life has changed so  much and hers hasnt apart from a new b/f and baby. The thing is CC43 is I have always worried about my gkids mental health, Eldest gkid had started to pick up on udd's lies and manipulation and udd wasnt handling this very well. At least they were able to de~stress a little when they were with me.I have been looking to the future and been putting money away for them as you suggested. I have even made provisions for them in my will but the thing that worries me most is their mental health.

[Elvis42]

JS,
  I can relate to your situation. My youngest stepdaughter got pregnant in high school, at the time she lived with her father in another state and hadn't any contact with us for years. She managed to alienate every family member in the state she was living, so against my better judgement I let me BPD wife talk me into letting her come here and live with us. She waited until after the baby was born, and then we moved her here with us. Her father and his gf wanted her to give up the baby because she was way to young and honestly doesn't have a motherly bone in her body. I learned this really quickly. Anyway we helped her get an apartment and from the beginning she was more worried about finding some new guy that raising a baby, so basically it was left to us, or should I say me, because my wife can barely take care of herself. I was also raising our youngest child, our son, at the same time. Fast forward (2) two years and the step daughter has been doing nothing but running with this new guy and guess what getting pregnant. (sidebar in the end her and this guy have 7 kids between them and they are both in their early 20's, don't work and have had the kids removed for abuse once already, long story for another day.) So after (2) years of raising the grandson as my own, she decide her and as I call him "fake daddy", (another long story) decide they were going to play house, so they came and took the grandson. I decided to try for some kind of custody, knowing how impossible that is for grandparents, but guess what "we" or technically I got primary custody, and the mother got partial. I raised the grandson for another almost 3 years, before the pandemic came along and when the government gave out all that money they got some unethical piece of trash to represent them and I was made out to be this horrible person, who beat and abused not only the grandson, but my son and my wife, so mom got primary custody and i got visitation. Because of my financial situation I no longer can afford a vehicle, so what did mom and "fake daddy" do? Moved to another state knowing I couldn't have a way to see the grandson and the court well they basically told me to sit down, shut up and mind my own business. Fast forward (2) years and all the kids are removed from the home because of neglect and abuse, so back to court we go in another state. At least 7 people knew that I had a custody order from the state in live in including the child protective services in the state mom lived in. Not one of them informed the court and they were going to proceed without me and were told that "fake daddy" was the grandson's father. It wasn't until I filed paperwork in that state that anyone even noticed, and then they basically ignored me, told me my court order from my state was worthless and equal to toilet paper, and we all know what you can do with toilet paper, and the grandson was sent to live with "fake daddy's" parent's, who get this have no relationship with the child, don't even recognize him as their grandson and live in the next town over from me. I filed paperwork here and was told because they lived in the other state for more than (6) months that, that was considered the child's home state, no matter where he was placed he was still a ward of that state. (9) months went by and when I tried to file here because he had been a resident here I was told no go, because he was placed here that didn't matter the other state still had jurisdiction, shortly after all the children were returned to the mother and "fake daddy" and haven't heard from the grandson, but maybe once or twice and that's only because I bought and pay for a cellphone for him monthly. Which by the way was taken from him when he lived with "fake daddy's" parents and he wasn't able to contact me at all, even though my custody order forbids that from happening, so go figure

Sorry you are dealing with your situation, either way its sad and in the end the grand kids are the ones who lose out the most.

[js friend]

Thank -you  Elvis.

I can hear the pain, fear and frustration in you post because I feel it too. I dont know why these people in charge cant seem to see what is in front of their eyes. They say that they listen to the kids and place them in their best interests but they dont. How can your gson be moved around so much?? What is the justification for doing that? These kids need stability. It truly breaks my heart.  So many kids are out there are being hurt and worse by their parents and yet its we are forced to sit on the sidelines watching this train wreck.  My own udd  has been involved with ss/cps  since she was 17 and now she is 30 years old and must believe by now that she has them twisted around her little finger. She had one swker who I loved to work with. He competely saw through her and she hated him. I dont know what she said but she soon got rid of him. She badmouths everyone in her life without question and  tells them  (ss/cps) who can come to meetings and who they can call and not call to verify what she tells them. In many ways they are as bad as her. My udd loves having the feeling of power and I feel that they are only enabling her in many ways and not thinking of what is best for the gkids. How about them isolating my gkids and your grandkids? Shouldnt something be done about  that, not just not that you filed the wrong paperwork. These are people we are talking about. Where is the humanity??

I truly wish you and your gson all the best Elvis and hope  that one day he will find his way back to you,