Did I cause this?

[newfreedom]

DH and I live in Europe and have many English speaking expatriate friends with whom we socialize from time to time.   No problems with any of these friends ever.      We live in a  condominium community and are the only Americans in our neighborhood.    We moved here from a different neighborhood (same country) six years ago and have socialized with a married couple who live two doors down.    They are natives of this country…this country is the same country where mother and alcoholic father were born and raised.    The woman in the couple has the same name as mother, even looks a bit like her.    I feel like I am living my past again.    I retired a year ago and while I was working there was no problem.   Last year, when I first retired, she would invite me over for coffee during the day.    I went a few times.   Then she started inviting us to Sunday lunch.    We went a few times.    Then she began to call me her “sister”  and when her grandson was born, she said he would have two grannies.                       I just listened, said nothing to these comments.   I returned stateside in the fall for a few months on personal business….. my sister died, then DH’s mother died last month.    I’ve been dealing with a lot of unresolved grief from a lifetime of abuse and then the loss of my MIL.   When I returned in late November, she began to invite me/us again for coffee/lunch.  (I can speak the language here, but am by no means fluent, so visiting them requires an enormous amount of energy to keep up the conversation.)   We began to decline because we don’t want that type of a relationship with them.     We were always nice, have done favors for them and just want to have a good neighborly relationship with them.    About two months ago, she phoned me.   She left a msg. simply stating hi, it’s me.    I didn’t return her call b/c she didn’t ask me to.    When I ran into her a few days later, she laid into me, laid on the guilt.              I simply replied that you didn’t ask me to return the call.   She went on about how worried she was about me (DH was out of town),  how could I make her worry like that, it’s not good to be alone to which I replied I like to be alone.   Then she said that she would not be calling me ever again.    She said that she wanted to see me and that her door would always be open.  It would be MY choice to go there.    I said that is good.    A few days later, my door bell rang.   She was at my door with her grandson.  (she has plenty to do, she watches him everyday….she knows I love babies so I think she was using him to lure me to visit her)     

I invited her in, she declined and but asked me to visit her at her house.   I said I was busy and told her I would see her “later.”    She repeated this same thing about four more times on different days and each time I said the same thing but never went.  Finally the visits stopped.   I hadn’t heard from her for the past month.  It has been so peaceful.   Then on Friday, her daughter came by to remind us that her son’s birthday party was yesterday, Sunday.   DH and I decided to go because we do like them and want to keep some contact.   So we went.    They had not seen DH since before his mother died.   They made no mention to him of their condolences and instead she immediately cornered me.   She had been drinking and was holding onto me admonishing me for not going to see her. …..calling me evil (in their language it’s not quite as bad as the translation but it is not good).   Insisted that I tell her what she had done to make me angry.   I told her she had done nothing that I just needed time to myself….that my sister and MIL had both recently died.   Then her husband did the same thing.     Then she tried to get her daughters to confront me.   Her one daughter asked her, “what is this, the inquisition?”      There was a house full of people there,   relatives and other neighbors.    It was ALL ABOUT HER AND HER NEEDS.   When I told her I was grieving some losses, she never said, I’m sorry you are going through that.     This is EXACTLY the type of behavior that I always had to deal with in my foo, from both mother and sisters.    That sort of feeding off of me, stalking type of behavior that makes me want to        

We don’t want to cut them out of our lives, they are our neighbors after all, but today I am so triggered and upset that the thought of seeing her again makes my stomach do flip flops.   I never want to see her again.   Should we have not gone to the party?

Any ideas of what I should/should not have done/said?     The therapist with whom I am no longer working would have me believe that I did something to invite this behavior.     I would so much appreciate your feedback, thoughts, suggestions.  nf

[oceanheart]

Most normal people can accept "rebuffing" from others and while it may hurt a bit, not take it personally, and then act civilly when they see the others - that's just social grace. However, politeness does not work with someone emotionally disordered because they do take it personally and thus try to "prove" to you they're worthy of your attention and they get confused by your less-than-straightfoward behavior. I don't think you did anything wrong except expect her to read subtle cues that any other person would have been able to read and follow. It would have been more effective with her to disengage cleanly, because you are sending a confusing message (in her mind). It wouldn't be a confusing message to someone who understands. She doesn't. So you need to make it clear and upfront you do not wish to spend time with her, and that might mean avoiding her outright from now on. She WILL react badly. I'm sorry your retirement has become a stressful time instead of the relaxing fun you worked so hard to accomplish. Please try to block her and her drama from your mind, as well as your life. You deserve it. Best of luck.

[methinkso]

I totally understand, NF.

This woman was putting the rush on you in the beginning. You engaged innocently enough but she had wants. I shy away from people that put the rush on me because it's usually a red flag as you are seeing.

I think you would not have gone to the party had you been able to realize how dysfunctional she is. And how crass that even her husband joined her in the attack. Why in the world was she even bringing that up at a party? And she obviously used her D to extend the invite to help blindside you. Shame on her for all of this.

You did absolutely nothing wrong and I know how it gets under your skin and feels like stalking. This woman is beyond aggressive and I hope you will just avoid her as much as possible. It will blow over.


Mts

[newfreedom]

Dear Oceanheart and Methinkso,

Can't thank you enough for your insight and comments.   I felt immediately better when I read them...After stuff like this happens, I tend to get stuck in this really negative thinking about how bad and shameful I am, so it helped so much to be validated by you.   

[methinkso]

NF,

I'm sure the feelings you experienced are familiar to all of us Nons.

Friendships evolve through mutal respect. Emotional freeloaders do to you what this woman did.

We have a new neighbor 'kitty corner' from us. She appears to be a single older woman. DH said he saw her outside on the driveway on her cell phone, near the street. Odd behavior. We were pulling in our drive one day last week. Again, she had parked in the street, got out of her car but didn't proceed on into her home. She stood there and cranked her head to see us. Not glanced or gave a small wave,just cranked her head and was gawking. I did not see this as normal curiosity but a red flag. Too 'in your face', if you will.

She parks in the street, more odd behavior as she only has one vehicle, a double garage and double drive. She parked on her drive a time I saw and she had the car half in the grass, half on the drive (prohibited here).

I have enough subtle red flags to be leery of making any social contact with this woman and fortunately we are seldom in our front yard so that makes it easier.

NF. We come here to talk about BPD people that effect our life's, but still we have to be aware that there are a LOT of weird people out there that can also hurt us. You did nothing wrong. This was understandably a bad experience for you, as it would be. Now at least you are protecting yourself.

[newfreedom]

Relationship issues like this are very slippery for me.   I have been going to AA for many years.   It is a spiritual program.    There is a great deal of education about serving others.

It is a 12 step program and some of the steps revolve around facing our character defects, making amends to others who we have harmed.   The emphasis is ALWAYS on looking at YOUR part of the equation with the other person.  I'm sure it isn't meant to imply that we should take abuse and not set boundaries but frankly, I always had the feeling that setting boundaries and not being there for others was selfish and "not spiritual,"    And the T I was seeing seemed to guide me to always making peace, making nice, no matter what the cost to me.    Then I found this board and it turned my whole world upsidedown.    I'm still trying to sort it all out.   

MTS,   thanks for your example of the new neighbor, sounds like you are already taking good care of yourself.      x

[joiesophie]

I'm sorry, nf.  It's not fair.  When stuff like this used to happen to me, I thought it was me, too.  Usually, these things are all about the other person, their wants and their needs.

mts is spot on with the emotional freeloader thing.

Sometimes people who are really needy - tend to find nice non's to take advantage of.  And get cranky when you don't meet their needs. 

Go with your gut.  It usually is right.  My gut took a while to get noisy, but I'm listening to it more.  And the peace is nice - just feels a little weird because there isn't as much crisis.

js

[methinkso]

NF,

I got past my people pleasing after allowing myself to believe I should receive as good of treatment as I give.

It may take a while, but when one gets in touch with the anger that being mistreated deserves it goes a long way in preventing the kind of manipulation/abuse you just received from this neighbor.

We just can't make nice all the time. Being able to recognize a 'train' coming is a good defense. I love the thought of an idea world where everyone had the ability to appreciate others at all times. but that is not reality.

NF, you did not hurt anyone when this occurance happened. You were hurt. Nobody should second guess if they should go feel bad for that.

I'm glad you feel your world is getting turned around. I can sense that you are a very loving person and you deserve happiness, especially now as you enter retirement.

Hugs,

Methinkso

[newfreedom]

Go with your gut.  It usually is right.  My gut took a while to get noisy, but I'm listening to it more.  And the peace is nice - just feels a little weird because there isn't as much crisis.

js

Joiesophie,      x

Great to see you today!   I have missed you.

Going with my gut is really easy when it doesn’t involve disappointing others.

I had a huge headache all during the day of this party.    I thought I had the headache because of my discomfort about going from LC to no contact with this woman for the past month.  I thought….this is new behavior for me and so that is probably why I have this headache, this headache represents my fear of needing to practice boundaries…I need to go because I need to practice Medium Chill.      But my overwhelming feeling was DON’T GO TO THAT PARTY.     

The next day while talking with DH about the party and what happened, I broke down and sobbed, shaking uncontrollably in a near panic.    She might as well have been my mother.    As I posted above, she has the same name and reminds me of her, so no accident.    DH was really puzzled….I told him that I was afraid that something really bad could happen now that she is disappointed in me.   I felt terrified of her and I still do, really.     The reality is that these neighbors have been very helpful to us, as we have been to them.   That part is equal.    We have relied on each other’s help from time to time. 

This is a culture where it helps to know people in order to get services, get things done.  But do we need them in order to survive here?   Of course not.    But if feels like I do. 

NF, you did not hurt anyone when this occurance happened. You were hurt. Nobody should second guess if they should go feel bad for that.

I'm glad you feel your world is getting turned around. I can sense that you are a very loving person and you deserve happiness, especially now as you enter retirement.

Methnkso,

My mother was always devastated when I wasn’t meeting her needs, which was a lot after age 12.   That is exactly what this feels like.   Neighbor is hurt, and I caused it.   If I had just been a good girl and gone to see her every other day, held her hand and sat there miserably bored to tears listening to her  toxic gossip about all the neighbors,   none of this would have happened.    And now I am in BIG trouble, no one will ever like me again,

I ‘ll be left all alone with no one to care and take care of me (the child inside believes this).    Intellectually, I know none of this is true….I only wish my feelings would cooperate.   

Thanks for reminding me about deserving good things.   When I feel that I have disappointed others, especially when they are clearly distressed and carrying on,  I turn that inward and hate myself and tell myself that I am a selfish, inconsiderate, despicable person. (she went on and on about how physically sick she has been feeling since the last time she saw me, how her health is failing...when I asked her daughter about this, her daughter look confused, she had no idea of what I was talking about)    x

This venting is so helpful for me, thanks for listening.