How to protect grandkids from BPDm's expired food?

[Ziggiddy]

After visiting uBPDm a few weeks ago I was reminded of how bad the 'out-of-code' food problem is. There are the usual items of just a few days expired as well as the ones that are a few months expired but there are also things in the fridge and the cupboard are a few years expired. (There are some herbs and spices there from before 1985)

I am increasingly worried about my kids accidentally grabbing something 'off' out of the fridge although I take my own food with me and tell them just to eat that. I am not able to watch them every single minute (helping with chores) and even though I have warned them about it sometimes mistakes are made.

I have tried to discuss the problem validating my mother's right to keep what ever she wants in her house as it is her house and her choice and also noting that she is obviously concerned about waste which is understandable as she is a pensioner. I tried expressing concern that the kids might get sick but she sincerely believes that the food is ok and that the manufacturers just use those expiry dates as a money making ploy. She feels it's wasteful to throw food away - even as compost and thinks i am too picky wanting fresh food all the time.

Is there some technique I am missing that might help to keep the kids safe when visiting? (She has, on occasion if she's in a good mood put a number of expired items away from the front of the cupboard so the children won't see them but this is inconsistent. My youngest has eaten food there that made her ill but my mother didn't actually see her later that day when she was pale and sick.)

Is there some other way I can persuade her to keep them safe without threatening to just not come back or to severely shorten the visits or lock the kids out of the food areas?

[AsianSon]

Don't know if the following will help (or if it is a little too deceitful or expensive). 

Perhaps turn the situation into wins for your kids, your mother, and you as well:

--Suggest that there is a "food bank" or other charity that will take expired food, and so she would be helping others rather than being wasteful.  (this is where there may be deceit depending on what is available in your area)

--Indicate that you care about your mother and don't want her eating expired food.  (a first WIN in showing care and concern for your mother)

--Offer to have you and your kids look through her pantry for expired food to take to the charity.  (a second WIN in helping your kids learn about expired food and maybe avoiding it themselves)

--Offer to replace the expired food for her at your cost (this is where it might be expensive).  This could be another WIN for showing care for your mother.

--You get what you want for your kids' safety (your WIN). 

I apologize for the possible use of deceit, but I have heard of (and encountered) some charities that will take "expired" food depending on the actual date involved. 

Wishing you luck!

A

[Ziggiddy]

Ha Haaaa! AsianSon - I enjoyed that read. Don't worry about apologising for the 'deceit' - sometimes balance and safety is more important than perfect and full disclosure, I think

Hmm. I do like where you're going with this. The obstacles are these: she is actually incredibly attached to these items - to the point where she can inventory them (I have tried throwing things away (with her permission) when she lived in a different house but they were noted and retrieved from the bin later that night. She did it secretly and tried to hide the items which let me know she was ashamed of it.) I don't actually think she eats most of the things that are 'off' she just keeps them for 'just in case' I have previously asked her not to eat bad food and she told me "she had a cast iron stomach - not like my weak one that can't take it"

I do like the idea of getting the kids involved in identifying the items though. Very very good idea.

The idea of replacing the food is a good one and even though costly still doable but she has SO MUCH FOOD that I just ... . it's ... . I mean two full pantries as well as several cupboards. 3 upright large fridges, 2 upright freezers as well as a half sized freezer all already choc-a-block full. The idea of going through it all is daunting. I used to do that. i don't know if I have the energy anymore. Any space that you create, any order or organisation is gone within days. It's disheartening. It almost seems like she's afraid of having gaps or order?

[AsianSon]

Hi Ziggiddy,

Wow!  Your mom has a lot of freezers and fridges!  I would think the power bills add up, and so might offer a way to suggest a reduction to her.  If that happens, the work might not be so challenging. 

I've wondered about my BPDm's childhood and how it plays out in her behavior.  For example, she views herself to be an expert in every little thing that she might have experienced in childhood.  This is probably part of the background to her extremely strong "queen" traits and N tendencies.  Her childhood was in, and during, Japanese occupation of China, so I have been surprised that there hasn't been more behaviors based on that. 

I bring this up because your story makes me think that your mother may have tendencies based on "having enough" or "saving a rainy day" that affect her behavior.  And could the lack of "gaps" be a form of "always full," like some people who don't let their car's gas tank drop below 3/4 or 1/2? 

I had a boss once who was a child during the Great Depression, and she was extremely thrifty all her life.  I also learned from an older woman, who was a young adult in China during Japanese occupation, to save and use vegetable peelings as food because she ate them during her youth.  She is extremely important to me, partly as an example of how great adversity does not have to result in BPD. 

Enjoy your weekend!

A

[HappyChappy]

Possibly you could have a food related issue/illness. Meaning that your kids can only eat food prepared by you. My sis invented this for her husband, who is too scared of my BPD Mom to stay. So he has intestinel issues that no one has ever got to the bottom off. Added benefit is they can never stay for a meal so they can keep visits short. In fact hubby probably makes an appearance once a year.

My BPD also served us up food, way past best. I have gut problems to this day. She would the good stuff and give us grule, because it would be waisted on us.

[Ziggiddy]

A - I am SO glad to hear you say that about the fridges! I wondered if that is normal or normalised for me. Don't even get me started on the 8 burnt out toasters, 5 burnt out kettles, broken glass, splintered wood etc in the shed. Nothing is permitted to leave the house. Or very little.

I get your point about 'depression mentality' and accept that this is a phenomenon brought about by having gone without. I fear there is an addictive element in it though. Food is just one aspect. She has coupons from restaurants that closed more than 15 years ago, bills and receipts from more than 30 years ago, phone numbers of people who have left the state/country, lolly wrappers, old tissues, doll parts (?), TV guides more than 7 years old, baby strollers that are falling apart and dangerous, broken CD covers with no CD's, literally hundreds of empty plastic bottles etc etc. Oh my. That was cathartic. The list is endless. Anyhow it is not limited to food.

Unfortunately the power bill is fully subsidised! I don't really believe I can ever persuade her out of the hoarding. And I'm certainly over the waste of time and effort that cleaning and sorting her stuff takes. And all undone days later.

I've wondered about my BPDm's childhood and how it plays out in her behavior.  For example, she views herself to be an expert in every little thing that she might have experienced in childhood.  This is probably part of the background to her extremely strong "queen" traits and N tendencies.  Her childhood was in, and during, Japanese occupation of China, so I have been surprised that there hasn't been more behaviors based on that. 

I bring this up because your story makes me think that your mother may have tendencies based on "having enough" or "saving a rainy day" that affect her behavior.  And could the lack of "gaps" be a form of "always full," like some people who don't let their car's gas tank drop below 3/4 or 1/2? 

I too am curious about the residual effects of their childhood. I can't imagine the kind of fear that the Japanese occupation may have caused. And that kind of fear is bound to produce a lasting effect. Although, as you say about your friend with the vegie peels that is doesn't necessarily mean a lasting disorder.

I have always been curious about the gaps. From the cupboard to the memory space on her PC she can't seem to stand them.

With BPD I wonder if it's a method of 'filling' the empty inside? They lack an idea of self so pour in stuff/food/alcohol/emotion/shopping etc to fill the hole and maybe even 9and I'm reaching here) to prove that they exist?

Possibly you could have a food related issue/illness. Meaning that your kids can only eat food prepared by you. My sis invented this for her husband, who is too scared of my BPD Mom to stay.

My BPD also served us up food, way past best. I have gut problems to this day. She would the good stuff and give us grule, because it would be waisted on us.

HappyChappy - thank you for your reply. i appreciate how different ways of thinking can stimulate my imagination. I am trying hard to learn to stand up to my mother about  issues like this and I confess I am in deep fear when I consider the responses that could happen. Mostly what she serves the kids is fine - fresh cooked etc -it is more what they can 'get into' from the fridge and the cupboard that's a worry. What a shame you were served bad food. I know this upset me greatly and I never stood up to it till I was pregnant. This was then labelled as hormone fuelled unreasonableness! it's not right. A restaurant can be shut down for doing that - shops can be fined for doing that yet our caregivers ... . well they seem to be exempt

I do like what you pointed out about keeping the visits short, however. This actually feels like permission to do something I would really like to do.

Anyhow, thanks for reading the post and taking time to reply guys. Much appreciated.

[Turkish]

This is an interesting topic. I wonder how much hoarding correlates with BPD. As AS pointed out, its sometimes hard to make sense of it due to cultural or historical issues. My mom was the last child of 3 siblings, born in '42. She experienced talk and effects of the Great Depression. Her likely NPD father also resulted in them being one of the poorest families in town even after times got better.

Hoarding ("fear of loss" according to my T) of food I experienced. My mom was an obsessive canner. We hardly ate what she canned, and some things remained on the shelf so long I couldn't tell what they were. When I was 12, she sent me dumpster diving for produce. She collected dishwashers to store food underground (like the Mormons, supposedly), but the dishwashers rusted in the yard, unused. The last time I was at her house last month, I had to go inside to find her. Sitting on top of the horrible mess was a frozen pizza box. I thought it was empty, but she just left it there, unopened, for who knows how long. Can't waste! Although that is of course waste.

[HappyChappy]

Do we know if this is a BPD issue - hording and preserving food ? My BPD Mom use to say this was because they were very poor during the War. Mind you she also said they use to forage for food in the forest, but never was able to demonstrate a knowledge of forest foods. I'm beginning to think these BPD might lie you know (sarcasms).

[Woolspinner2000]

I also agree that this is a very interesting topic. My uBPD mom was an obsessive canner (we lived on a farm when I was growing up), and we also had 4 chest freezers full of food. We didn't have much money, so she stock piled every bit she could. We could never eat that much, and a lot of the food went bad or was so old it wasn't safe to eat. When she died a few years ago, there was food stashed on her pantry shelves with expiration dates several years old. I don't know if it is a BPD trait or not. Would be interesting to find out!

[Ziggiddy]

I wonder if it comes under the 'self destructive' bracket? maybe a form of self harm based in the "I'm-not-good-enough-I-don't-deserve-to-have-good-things" type mentality? A way of staying in the familiar "hate myself"? 

[Turkish]

I also agree that this is a very interesting topic. My uBPD mom was an obsessive canner (we lived on a farm when I was growing up), and we also had 4 chest freezers full of food. We didn't have much money, so she stock piled every bit she could. We could never eat that much, and a lot of the food went bad or was so old it wasn't safe to eat. When she died a few years ago, there was food stashed on her pantry shelves with expiration dates several years old. I don't know if it is a BPD trait or not. Would be interesting to find out!

I remember my mom having freezers full of food, too... the majority uneaten. I keep going back to what my T said:hoarding=fear of loss. It's an attachment disorder.