How long to give him to work on his issue? How should I act with him today?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I posted in the "Staying" section last week because my heart really does want to stay, but my head is starting to tell me that things will never get better.  It has been a roller coaster for 5 years but getting engaged last month I really thought he had pulled things together, until, as I said in my previous posts, the extent of his porn addiction was discovered.  He is in his 50s, said it comes from trauma and that he would work on it because losing me isn't an option.  To describe what this addiction does to me is like this: Imagine someone who grew up with an alcoholic, was beaten by them in drunken rages, and then the alcoholic died.  Now imagine what it would be like for that person to discover that a partner was an alcoholic.  I have sexual traumas in my past and the alcoholic analogy is the best way that I can make you understand how I'm feeling. He told me  a week ago he would get help and I still haven't heard about the ways he is going to work on it. Granted we don't live together and he was in trainings all week, so maybe he hasn't had a chance to formulate a plan or has and is waiting to tell me in person.  How long do I give him?  He told me to keep after him; do I say something today when I see him?  I'm dreading seeing him because I am so emotional and feel guilty for still being emotional after we had this deep and intimate talk about his problem.  I guess I'm very burnt out by 5 years of his problems.  I feel like it will never end.  This one is a near deal breaker for me though because of the alcoholic analogy.  Any advice on how to be today seeing him for the first time in a week will be welcomed because I am having anxiety over it.

[izzitme]

I posted in the "Staying" section last week because my heart really does want to stay, but my head is starting to tell me that things will never get better.  It has been a roller coaster for 5 years but getting engaged last month I really thought he had pulled things together, until, as I said in my previous posts, the extent of his porn addiction was discovered.  He is in his 50s, said it comes from trauma and that he would work on it because losing me isn't an option.  To describe what this addiction does to me is like this: Imagine someone who grew up with an alcoholic, was beaten by them in drunken rages, and then the alcoholic died.  Now imagine what it would be like for that person to discover that a partner was an alcoholic.  I have sexual traumas in my past and the alcoholic analogy is the best way that I can make you understand how I'm feeling. He told me  a week ago he would get help and I still haven't heard about the ways he is going to work on it. Granted we don't live together and he was in trainings all week, so maybe he hasn't had a chance to formulate a plan or has and is waiting to tell me in person.  How long do I give him?  He told me to keep after him; do I say something today when I see him?  I'm dreading seeing him because I am so emotional and feel guilty for still being emotional after we had this deep and intimate talk about his problem.  I guess I'm very burnt out by 5 years of his problems.  I feel like it will never end.  This one is a near deal breaker for me though because of the alcoholic analogy.  Any advice on how to be today seeing him for the first time in a week will be welcomed because I am having anxiety over it.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patientandclear]

I worry to hear you use the term "near deal breaker." You are hanging your happiness on his willingness to change--not something that works all that well typically. You seem unsure whether it IS a real breaker if he does not address it. He wants you to take responsibility ("keep after him" which sounds like a recipe for resentment on both sides.

It sounds like you have unearthed a deeply personal, probably shame-infused, core coping mechanism he relies on. Sounds like it will be tough for him to readily give that up. From what you say, it will be very hard for you to live with it.

I think stepping back from involvement on your part on how and if he is going to address this is important--as is clear communication of your boundaries if this really is a boundary. If this is something you would prefer to accept and deal with rather than lose the r/ship, I would not push him with a deadline. You have stated your feelings, perhaps he will take action.

I think you need to get clearer on your own priorities and limits before re-engaging him on this.

Sounds very hard. I'm sorry ... .

[CCMidwest]

Hey izzitme,

I'm an ex-porn addict.

Unfortunately I think you are right when it comes to relating porn addiction and alcoholism. There is a lot of controversy in the science and health communities on whether or not porn addiction is an actual thing, and if it is, how strong of an addiction it can be.

I can tell you from personal experience though, that it is a real thing, and it is very, very powerful.

With that in mind, you need to understand that IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

There is absolutely NOTHING you could have done to cause his addiction, to perpetuate his addiction, or to have any responsibility for his addiction at all. Nothing.

As patientandclear said above, he is attempting to put responsibility on you. That is a typical response for an addict. Don't buy it. What you need to do is take responsibility for yourself.

What that means is you need to decide whether this is something you can handle, meaning having boundaries that protect yourself from his addiction, or whether it is something you cannot. If you decide that you can handle it and wish to help him through it, then you can choose to help him as you wish.

But PLEASE understand that it is not related to you. You are separate from this.

There are many, many ways to beat a porn addiction too. Lots of material available on the internet, plus plenty of technology that reduces the availability of porn. There are porn blockers for every device out there. He has options.

As for meeting with him today? I don't know. I wish I could help you there.

[izzitme]

Patientandclear, Thank you for your response.  You are right when you say that I unearthed core issues for him.  He described all the difficult emotions that go along with it, and I have empathy for him as well as know that it isn't going to go away overnight.  We agreed that he would stop the live webcams but continue the pre recorded stuff.  I have also tapped in to my own deepest pain, which I working with a therapist on right now.  This weekend she is doing some research to suggest reading for me because written word is the best way to reach me deeply.  He and I talked about working on our intimate life, because he doesn't initiate and turns me down passive aggressively by always being "sick" with his diabetes when I sleep over.  So maybe those are 2 places to start.  You are right that I can't hang my happiness on his recovery and you are also right that I am not sure if this is a real deal breaker or not.  I am just in so much pain.  I was exposed to sex too early, shamed over it, my dad cheated on my mother, I have been cheated on and left for another woman by my ex husband.  This is all very triggering.

[CCMidwest]

He and I talked about working on our intimate life, because he doesn't initiate and turns me down passive aggressively by always being "sick" with his diabetes when I sleep over.  

I hope it is permissible to post helpful links on this forum, I suppose a mod will correct me if it is not.

www.yourbrainonporn.com/

Izzitme, please see the part where that web site talks about low libido and problems with getting and maintaining an erection. I'm guessing, but this is probably why he is not initiating intimacy with you. Again, it is not you.

Keep in mind that if (when?) he does quit porn, libido and erectile dysfunction problems will increase for a short time, 30-90 days roughly.

[izzitme]

CCMidwest, thank you for the reassurance that it isn't me.  He started this 20 years ago in response to trauma, humiliation and rejection.  For that I have empathy for.  He tells me not to compare myself or feel inadequate, and is deeply shamed that I feel that way.  The webcam stuff made me feel that way, not the recorded stuff.  He offered to give up the cams but said he couldn't give up the regular stuff right now because he claims he needs it for stress relief.  He also would work on greater physical intimacy with me by not pushing me away and initiating more.  Those are the boundaries that we have come up with so far.  I need to work on my own issues with inadequacy, generally comparing myself to other women and valuing myself for more than just looks and sex.  He and I have very symbiotic issues.  My therapist is going to help me with this.  Thank you so much for your reply, it really helps.

[izzitme]

I checked out the link.  Yup that is him in a nutshell.  He blames it on being overweight, high blood pressure and diabetes.  I know that it isn't me, but I feel incredibly rejected.  I'm 10 years younger than him and in good shape and feel like I don't deserve this.

[Grey Kitty]

His porn addiction, his porn use isn't your fault. You didn't cause it, you aren't responsible for it, and you cannot cure it.

Can you reduce your involvement in this further?

Setting boundaries as far as what you can accept vs. what you cannot (live cams vs. pre-recorded) sounds like a big step forward for both of you to me.

If he is going to work on this, he needs people to talk to and support. You shouldn't be doing this for him--it is way too triggering for you, and that will make things worse for both you and him. Can you encourage him to find other sources of support?

[CCMidwest]

CCMidwest, thank you for the reassurance that it isn't me.  He started this 20 years ago in response to trauma, humiliation and rejection.  For that I have empathy for.  He tells me not to compare myself or feel inadequate, and is deeply shamed that I feel that way.  The webcam stuff made me feel that way, not the recorded stuff.  He offered to give up the cams but said he couldn't give up the regular stuff right now because he claims he needs it for stress relief.  He also would work on greater physical intimacy with me by not pushing me away and initiating more.  Those are the boundaries that we have come up with so far.  I need to work on my own issues with inadequacy, generally comparing myself to other women and valuing myself for more than just looks and sex.  He and I have very symbiotic issues.  My therapist is going to help me with this.  Thank you so much for your reply, it really helps.

I'm glad to help. I hurt my wife majorly with my addiction. Any help I can give others I am grateful to give!

I'm sort of passionate about exposing the evil that is porn, so I hope you don't mind if I comment here again! 

I think porn addiction is a cross between an addiction (and the chemical response in the brain associated with all addictions) and a very strong habit.

So if you choose to help him with this, it is very helpful to break the HABIT of porn, by recognizing and reacting to the chemical response in the brain. Here is the steps I followed to break the habit:

Habits are formed by unintentionally or intentionally following a routine:

Cue--->Routine--->Reward

So, in a porn habit it goes like this:

Need for dopamine in the brain (cue)--->consuming porn and masturbating (routine)--->chemical release of dopamine in the brain (reward)

(hence his "stress relief" comment)

If you interrupt the cycle at any point, then you can break the chain. Some users attempt to interrupt the reward part of the cycle by "edging" to almost orgasm by using porn, but then denying the release, which is supposed to cause the brain to forget porn as a reward. This is a bad idea in my experience. (dopamine is still released)

The best way is to break the routine of "using" porn and offer the cue a different reward. The cue is NOT the urge to have an orgasm. Orgasm is simply one of many ways that the brain releases dopamine (among other chemicals)

It is the urge for dopamine in the brain that the addict wants. This can be satiated by giving the body other dopamine rewards. Physical exercise is really good for this. I would literally drop and do pushups until the urge went away. This gave my "cue" the "routine" of push ups, which gave me the "reward" of dopamine. Same as porn.

Next is to break the routine of being able to even access porn. That is where tech comes in. Block it!

The next step is to find a healthy sexuality. I worked on this by scheduling masturbation without the use of porn. In the shower 3x a week. I was not able to successfully masturbate for the first 2 months or so after quitting. After that I was able to resume sexual activity with my wife, and enjoy it.

Hope that helps you! (and him)

I've already said it, but I'll repeat... .it is NOT YOU.

It is not realistic to think that you are inadequate to porn. Porn allows access to hundreds of thousands of different women. You can't compete with that sort of variety, you aren't meant to be able to compete with that sort of variety, and that is why addicts get addicted to it... .because it, unlike you, IS NOT NATURAL.

Kings of old didn't even have access to the copious amounts of naked women that a porn addict has "access" to when he goes on the internet. Our brains cannot handle it, do you think the brain knows the difference? Nope.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE WOMAN ON THIS PLANET THAT CAN "COMPETE" WITH PORN.

Holy crap I hate porn! It destroys lives! The addict and all involved, especially a romantic partner.

I can empathize with you and him. Hang in there.

[izzitme]

Grey Kitty, he has a therapist that he has been seeing for 6 years, so he is a good place to start.  I guess my fear is that he was all gung ho last week but wonder how willing he still is because he hasn't said anything further.  He said he doesn't want us to sweep this under the rug and wants to keep an open dialogue, particularly where this is so triggering for me he doesn't want me to suffer in silence and also wants me to remind him to stay intimate with me.  I guess it is my fear that it will get swept under the rug.  Maybe I should work with my therapist on my inadequacy issues surrounding sex first and then once I am strong I can tackle the issues that he brings to the relationship.  :)oes anybody know any good books for women who struggle with inadequacy and inferiority sexually?

[izzitme]

CCMidwest, I welcome your responses, they really help.  As someone who has been there, how should I act toward him?  I am so raw because like I said I normally struggle with extreme sexual inadequacy and inferiority so this is the perfect storm right now.  Being angry is not useful because it will cause him more shame and I don't want that.  I need to work on my issues.  Like I told Grey Kitty, I wish I could find a book where the topic was women that particularly feel sexually inadequate.  Books on self esteem aren't specific enough. 

[CCMidwest]

CCMidwest, I welcome your responses, they really help.  As someone who has been there, how should I act toward him?  I am so raw because like I said I normally struggle with extreme sexual inadequacy and inferiority so this is the perfect storm right now.  Being angry is not useful because it will cause him more shame and I don't want that.  I need to work on my issues.  Like I told Grey Kitty, I wish I could find a book where the topic was women that particularly feel sexually inadequate.  Books on self esteem aren't specific enough. 

I think you should "act" like yourself! (wow, that was a really useful answer    )

But in all seriousness, I think it is OK for you to express how you feel about it in a productive way. Just keep in mind that your feelings of inadequacy from the past are just like his porn addiction... .separate things, even if he is triggering you.

The biggest thing with dealing with addicts of any type is having boundaries.

https://www.promises.com/articles/family-and-parenting/healthy-boundaries-addicts-alcoholics/

That is specific to alcoholics, but you get the idea.

I'm sure the articles on this site about boundary setting are useful, I just can't find them to link them right this second.

[Grey Kitty]

Perhaps your therapist can find you a book to help your feelings of sexual inadequacy? (I personally am pretty far from the target audience, being male, not having experienced any childhood sexual trauma.)

If you are going to make this relationship work, you have to find a fine line on how you deal with your partner regarding porn.

On one side, "sweeping it under the rug" isn't healthy, and further, much of what he does is traumatic to you, and you need to protect yourself from that as best you can.

On the other side, you cannot control him or make him stop, and what seems like "helping" him work on it ends up making things worse--extra conflict in the relationship, which distracts him from dealing with his own issues. You compared it to alcohol addiction--if your partner was an alcoholic, consider what doesn't work, starting with trying to stop him from drinking.

I know of a woman whose H has a porn addiction / sex addiction problem... .and he really WANTS to involve her in this stuff, telling her about his "progress" which is limited at best, and in other cases, he's deep in denial, claiming he's doing the right thing when she knows better... .and wants to share this with her, and get a pat on the back for his success. Needless to say, this doesn't go well!

Or as a similar situation, my exwife has had a weight problem all her life. She eats emotionally, like an addict at times. Over many years I tried "helping" her control her eating--trying to point out when she was eating something compulsively. Didn't help. When she would "fall off the wagon" she would pretty much always refuse to weigh herself because she knew she was eating badly, knew she was gaining weight, and was trying to be in denial about it. If I tried to get her to weigh herself so she turned herself around after gaining 5 pounds instead of after gaining 30, it just turned into a big fight.

By the time I figured it out, our marriage was done... .but what I realized was that if I did try to "help" aka try to control her, all it did was let her make her own battles she was fighting regarding this turn into a fight with me, and let her avoid dealing with it for another day.

In the end, I only did two things--I ate and cooked things that worked for me. (or ate what I wanted when she cooked)... .and she would occasionally want my "approval" or want me to join in with eating some sort of guilty pleasure type food... .and would get mad at me if I wasn't willing to participate. In that case, I let her be mad if she wanted to be, and only shared that kind of thing with her when *I* wanted to eat it.