After therapy aborted, new crisis: How much to give in?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Dear all,

I just had major crisis with undiagnosed BPDw and need some advice, as it has been so useful in the past. To summarize: Have been together for soon 9 years, two kids 2 and 5, we're living in my home country. She always responded aggressively to the idea of couple therapy until we had a major explosion this winter. Then we saw a mediator (very experienced, but not sure how knowledgeable about BPD she was, though I thought she was good) three times until a new explosion early May, when she suggested I call the mediator so that the mediator (a woman) could explain to me how I should behave. The mediator said that if our genders had been the opposite, it would have been easy to qualify what I experience as psychological violence, and she said I had to take care of myself and stand up. And she told me I could tell all of this to BPDw. That resulted in BPDw of course refusing to continue mediation, but she started to accept that I stand up/respond/yell back when she goes beyond the limits, and she has generally then avoided further escalation, as if she understands my right to symmetry.

Though times have been rocky since: A couple of weeks ago her mother came to visit us for a week, and one night my wife tells me she understood why she hates me so much: it's because I am like her mother. Next day she calls me in the office and asks me to come home because they are screaming at each other. I try to calm things, but my mother-in-law is so upset of insults from BPDw, so she buys a new air ticket and goes home the next morning. The time after that was of course a honeymoon for the two of us.

Until this Monday: Kindergarten is closed for summer and I have been home with the kids. When I get in with S2 to make dinner, D5 wants to continue to play in the street (it's a carfree neighbourhood and lots of playgrounds) with her friend J, whose father confirms he will keep an eye on them. They live about 30 m from us and he and I often hang out in the street with our kids. BPDw then gets home from work, and discovers D5 on the playground without me. She gets furious, because she has never liked the look of J's father (a tall, "blokey" man) and is afraid he might be a pedophile. After a loud argument over dinner that doesn't end up too ugly (kids' presence I guess), the situation has been frosty-to-diplomatic I'd say. Until tonight, when she shows me yet another article about how victims of pedophiles talk only 20 years later, we rehearse a bit of the same argument again as on Monday but the kids are put in bed and she gets really loud and aggressive, saying this is her expertise, that in this Scandinavian country people are absolutely naive, and I have to respect her and never let D5 with that man again. She punches me in the chest and kicks me, re-opening a wound on my knee (the first visible mark of physical violence ever, I have taken a picture now). I say I want to respect her, that I want to talk calmly, she says that her colleagues (at her country's embassy) think I am an idiot, that all my countrymen are naive, I say fine I want to talk with her countrymen then, but that she refuses. I say that she puts other people's words in certain ways when she re-tells them, and I use the exampe of a friend of hers, N, that BPDw claimed thought that I was very difficult to be with. I had asked BPDw if I could ask N about that, she said yes, and so I had called N asking her to be honest and I got a rather nuanced with of the two of us, telling us we had both our weaknesses. I tell BPDw this, she goes mad, then D5 wakes up, crying, we both go up and talk calmly, BPDw saying that we will "without doubt divorce", me saying "I love mum", etc.

Then just now we had a calmer argument where I essentially agreed that if not letting D5 being with this specific dad in the street was so important for her, I would respect that (BPDw experienced sexual violence when she was young). But I explained that I had stood up because sometimes she goes way too far in "heating up" just to get her way on an unreasonable issue (I used an example where she claimed that cold oat flakes were bad for digestion and she had tried to stop me giving it to the kids). And we talked about lots of other stuff. The tone did not become friendly, but calmer. And on her hitting me, no remorse - it was last resort as I did not respect her.

Should I have stood strong/take the fight again on the "J's dad" issue or should I let it be? Now that she has cut all contact with all her family (her mother was the lifeline) she variously threatens with suicide and with finding a better man. As long as her asks are not absolutely ridiculous (cf her history of sexual violence in this case) or substantively hinder our kids' normal life, I am tempted to give in. Any advice on where to go from now? She is a very good mum most of the time and I love her, so things have to be far worse for the kids before I am willing to risk divorce.

Thanks in advance!

[anchor]

Dear all,

I just had major crisis with undiagnosed BPDw and need some advice, as it has been so useful in the past. To summarize: Have been together for soon 9 years, two kids 2 and 5, we're living in my home country. She always responded aggressively to the idea of couple therapy until we had a major explosion this winter. Then we saw a mediator (very experienced, but not sure how knowledgeable about BPD she was, though I thought she was good) three times until a new explosion early May, when she suggested I call the mediator so that the mediator (a woman) could explain to me how I should behave. The mediator said that if our genders had been the opposite, it would have been easy to qualify what I experience as psychological violence, and she said I had to take care of myself and stand up. And she told me I could tell all of this to BPDw. That resulted in BPDw of course refusing to continue mediation, but she started to accept that I stand up/respond/yell back when she goes beyond the limits, and she has generally then avoided further escalation, as if she understands my right to symmetry.

Though times have been rocky since: A couple of weeks ago her mother came to visit us for a week, and one night my wife tells me she understood why she hates me so much: it's because I am like her mother. Next day she calls me in the office and asks me to come home because they are screaming at each other. I try to calm things, but my mother-in-law is so upset of insults from BPDw, so she buys a new air ticket and goes home the next morning. The time after that was of course a honeymoon for the two of us.

Until this Monday: Kindergarten is closed for summer and I have been home with the kids. When I get in with S2 to make dinner, D5 wants to continue to play in the street (it's a carfree neighbourhood and lots of playgrounds) with her friend J, whose father confirms he will keep an eye on them. They live about 30 m from us and he and I often hang out in the street with our kids. BPDw then gets home from work, and discovers D5 on the playground without me. She gets furious, because she has never liked the look of J's father (a tall, "blokey" man) and is afraid he might be a pedophile. After a loud argument over dinner that doesn't end up too ugly (kids' presence I guess), the situation has been frosty-to-diplomatic I'd say. Until tonight, when she shows me yet another article about how victims of pedophiles talk only 20 years later, we rehearse a bit of the same argument again as on Monday but the kids are put in bed and she gets really loud and aggressive, saying this is her expertise, that in this Scandinavian country people are absolutely naive, and I have to respect her and never let D5 with that man again. She punches me in the chest and kicks me, re-opening a wound on my knee (the first visible mark of physical violence ever, I have taken a picture now). I say I want to respect her, that I want to talk calmly, she says that her colleagues (at her country's embassy) think I am an idiot, that all my countrymen are naive, I say fine I want to talk with her countrymen then, but that she refuses. I say that she puts other people's words in certain ways when she re-tells them, and I use the exampe of a friend of hers, N, that BPDw claimed thought that I was very difficult to be with. I had asked BPDw if I could ask N about that, she said yes, and so I had called N asking her to be honest and I got a rather nuanced with of the two of us, telling us we had both our weaknesses. I tell BPDw this, she goes mad, then D5 wakes up, crying, we both go up and talk calmly, BPDw saying that we will "without doubt divorce", me saying "I love mum", etc.

Then just now we had a calmer argument where I essentially agreed that if not letting D5 being with this specific dad in the street was so important for her, I would respect that (BPDw experienced sexual violence when she was young). But I explained that I had stood up because sometimes she goes way too far in "heating up" just to get her way on an unreasonable issue (I used an example where she claimed that cold oat flakes were bad for digestion and she had tried to stop me giving it to the kids). And we talked about lots of other stuff. The tone did not become friendly, but calmer. And on her hitting me, no remorse - it was last resort as I did not respect her.

Should I have stood strong/take the fight again on the "J's dad" issue or should I let it be? Now that she has cut all contact with all her family (her mother was the lifeline) she variously threatens with suicide and with finding a better man. As long as her asks are not absolutely ridiculous (cf her history of sexual violence in this case) or substantively hinder our kids' normal life, I am tempted to give in. Any advice on where to go from now? She is a very good mum most of the time and I love her, so things have to be far worse for the kids before I am willing to risk divorce.

Thanks in advance!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[pearlsw]

She punches me in the chest and kicks me, re-opening a wound on my knee (the first visible mark of physical violence ever, I have taken a picture now). I say I want to respect her, that I want to talk calmly, she says that her colleagues (at her country's embassy) think I am an idiot, that all my countrymen are naive, I say fine I want to talk with her countrymen then, but that she refuses.

Should I have stood strong/take the fight again on the "J's dad" issue or should I let it be? Now that she has cut all contact with all her family (her mother was the lifeline) she variously threatens with suicide and with finding a better man. As long as her asks are not absolutely ridiculous (cf her history of sexual violence in this case) or substantively hinder our kids' normal life, I am tempted to give in. Any advice on where to go from now? She is a very good mum most of the time and I love her, so things have to be far worse for the kids before I am willing to risk divorce.

Thanks in advance!

Hi anchor,

Sorry we didn't see this sooner! How are you doing now? Are you safe? Has there been any more domestic violence? Was this the first time she physically assaulted you or has this happened before?

I am very sorry to hear that you are being treated in this way.

The thing to be wary about with DV is that things quite often do get worse. Are you already aware of resources in your country incase things escalate like this again?

Please be in touch. We can discuss these other issues as well, but when DV happens it is important to handle that most pressing safety issue first thing.

take good care, pearl.

[anchor]

Hi anchor,

Sorry we didn't see this sooner! How are you doing now? Are you safe? Has there been any more domestic violence? Was this the first time she physically assaulted you or has this happened before?

The thing to be wary about with DV is that things quite often do get worse. Are you already aware of resources in your country incase things escalate like this again?

Thanks Pearl! Don't worry, things are better now. We had promised D5 to go camping the day after the crisis, and so we did, and it helped defuse things.
She has occasionally punched me in the chest but I have never felt physically threatened simply because she is smaller than me and I can see she just boils over/that it is not deliberate. But indeed this was the worst, perhaps because I didn't just say "sorry, you're right, I'll do as you tell me" to de-escalate. And I am aware of resources to get help (crisis centre for DV), but I am a long way from contacting them because I am afraid what it may entail in terms of escalation. After all, I am not afraid of what BPDw might do to me, and the DV people will probably tell me what our ex-mediator already told us, i.e. that I have to take care of myself and that her behaviour is unacceptable. And indeed I know I have to draw a line somewhere and say "hey, you have an anger issue that you need help resolving". And that's what I did on Friday. Which she refuses to acknowledge. But I know she is aware of it at some level. So the question is more or less: Should I behave differently to what I have done if 1) I feel safe, 2) my top priority is for family life to be as normal as possible?

[Radcliff]

"If the genders were reversed, it could be considered psychological violence."  It does sound like the counselor was appropriately supportive in suggesting that you push back, but that phrase really struck me.  Psychological violence can occur from any gender against any gender.

I'm sorry to hear that an old wound was re-opened (metaphorically and literally).  Have you considered reporting this to the police?  I know that might seem like a completely inconceivable idea, but having consequences for her actions is important.  It is critical to put a stop to physical violence.  Another idea would be to drive to the police station and ask to talk with someone and tell them in general terms what you are dealing with (you could discuss physical violence but not give a date) to get an idea of how they would respond to physical violence from a woman.

I respect the difficulty of the situation you are in, if you want to protect your family but your wife is sometimes violent.  Violent and controlling behavior tends to escalate, so it is important to get a handle on this.  Have you discussed the violence with your wife?  Is she apologetic?  :)oes she take responsibility or blame you?  

Please let us know how you are doing.

WW

[Radcliff]

anchor, you and I posted at the same time.  I see that you want to keep things stable, and that she has not taken responsibility for hitting you.  As I said, you can expect this behavior to continue, and perhaps to escalate.  Can you make an appointment with the mediator and have her talk to your wife?  Are there any mutual friends who you can discuss the violence with who might talk to your wife?  Women often are concerned about the opinions of others, so shining some bright daylight on this can help.  I have been exactly where you are, not wanting to make waves outside of the relationship in hopes that things will get better.  They got worse.

WW

[Radcliff]

Sorry for the multiple posts, I'd normally modify my post, but I see you're online and don't want to modify something you might be reading.

It doesn't matter that you are bigger and don't believe she could physically harm you.  Physical violence is such a boundary violation, so incompatible with a healthy relationship, that a bright line must be drawn.  It must stop.  There may be several approaches to get it to stop, but if you want to preserve the relationship, it must stop, even if it is infrequent.  Try first with discussions between the two of you, but it sounds like you have already tried that.  You very likely will have to involve outsiders.  Close family or friends or trusted counselors can be a first step.

WW

[braveSun]

But indeed this was the worst, perhaps because I didn't just say "sorry, you're right, I'll do as you tell me" to de-escalate. And I am aware of resources to get help (crisis centre for DV), but I am a long way from contacting them because I am afraid what it may entail in terms of escalation.

After all, I am not afraid of what BPDw might do to me, ... .But I know she is aware of it at some level. So the question is more or less: Should I behave differently to what I have done if 1) I feel safe, 2) my top priority is for family life to be as normal as possible?

anchor, I will join in and say that WW has a good point about the need to draw a line about being physical with anger. I know that when we are being targeted we can feel a bit like, do I really need to defend myself or not for that? Does that really scare me?

That's because we are talking strictly from a point of view of self-defense in the moment. On the long range, though, the practice of getting physical is a violation of normal, healthy human personal space.  The fear of things escalating if you assert a boundary on the physical stuff, that may be something worth to explore.

Any thoughts?

[anchor]

Thanks WW and BraveSun! It's important to get these reminders about the need to draw red lines, as you know it is so tempting to ignore that need.

Wife won't talk to mediator again after the "psychological violence" comment. Indeed she is very concerned about the opinion of others, and hence gets really upset about me sharing without her knowledge. So I guess it makes sense to write (not say) to her that if she ever hits me again, I will tell a common friend unless she accepts to seek help.

I think she is now in a kind of "trying to get normal but too much anger below the surface that easily boils over": Last night she wanted to watch a movie and was happy to discuss with me what we should watch. So a rather positive evening. But then this morning before leaving for work, she got mad when she saw that I put into a bucket (that I also use for floor cleaning) S2's very dirty underpants that I had forgotten to wash yesterday after an "accident" he had, for "pre-soaking". ("how can you put his underpants into this bucket? I really think we won't end our days together". (She then threw them into washing machine on a quick 40C programme, which I find is a filthy way to deal with such stains, but I didn't respond, too tired at 7am).

It's Thursday morning here now, and we have not seen my parents for a couple of months (they live 2 hours drive from us). Even though she says she doesn't want to go there, I think I will try to organise a trip to theirs' this w-e – it's about our kids having a relationship with at least one pair of grand-parents and privately I think that life is easier when BPDw is forced to "shape up" and behave as an adult (which she always does when we receive or pay visits to people).

Does it make sense?

[Enabler]

anchor,

This makes a lot of sense. pwBPD have a lot of masks. They tend to put the masks on for social respectability or social acceptance. Your W doesn't want to look bad in front of your parents. Out of interest is she keen to leave these events or exhausted when they go? It must be tough suppressing all her anxieties and anger for those periods. Funny, often people think they know your spouse really well... .but they know the mask... .I feel we're the only ones that truly know our partners as the mask comes off when the front door closes.

I'll not touch on DV, it's important but well covered by the other members.

Some other serious flags there are mentioning divorce in front of D5. This is mentally damaging for any child.

Have you read anything about trauma reenactment? Given your W's history of sexual violence as a child it's very likely that she is hypervigilent for signs that someone (including you) could abuse the children. Her feeling = fact spidysense will tell her that man down the street IS a pedophile and she therefore needs to protect her kids from him. This is likely to escalate as the children grow older and have more freedom (which she is likely want to protect them from and control). I do think you need to have some empathy for her feelings here, the situations aren't the same and yes, it is important that your kids are allowed freedom to grow independence and a sense of self... .BUT... .I think you have to operate under best in class rules. I would say that 5 is too young to be playing unsupervised (by a parent, or mutually agreeable adult) in the street. The question is, who is agreeable. My guess is that a woman would agreeable and all men will be deemed inappropriate. You are not mad, despite her implications (I'm sure it's not the first time you have been described as mad or wrong) but you have different tolerances. I believe you need to accept that she has lower tolerances and try and work with those tolerances rather than push against conflict points. Be outcome focused, be open and honest that you have different tolerances but you are being guided by her. Like you said "It's tolerable for me, but if it's not tolerable for you then I will adjust."

No one is solving anything when you argue. Try and avoid conflict as much as possible. Try and encourage her by showing her that you will not engage when there is arguing. It's not optimal from a fluffy relationship perspective but have you tried emailing issues. Choose your words carefully. She will likely 'react' to the email in the first instance and write you some rant response... .but you can ignore this and wait for the words to filter through past the anger in her head. Avoid accusations, state facts and potential solutions. Avoid YOU comments and instead make I and WE comments.

"After the discussion the other night it's apparent that we have different tolerances to D5 playing in the street. I have been considering your feelings on the matter over the past few days and sense that you're very afraid that D5 might be sexually abused. I don't want you to feel afraid that I am putting D5 at risk. I'm sure many mothers would feel similarly. We all have different tolerances and perceptions of risk and comfort levels. I would like to operate in an area which allows both of us to feel comfortable with D5's safety, can you suggest any guidelines for me so I can help meet that target?"

This is kind of based on the I-AM-MAD model of communication.
www.anythingtostopthepain.com/i-am-mad-communication-skill/

Hope this is something to work with

Enabler

[Enabler]

Oh... .and another thing... .because I'm a contrarian... .how would this look from her perspective having been sexually abused... .I'm going full on empathy mode now... .

He = You

He doesn't know what it's like to be sexually abused
He's putting D5 at risk of being sexually abused
How does he know that guy up the road isn't a pedophile, my (uncle, father, brother, guy down the road) didn't look like a pedo and no one suspected he was interfering with me.
If she is sexually abused she will feel as bad as I do all my life, her life will be ruined
D5 IS GOING TO BE ABUSED... .FACT
He doesn't understand at all that this IS GOING TO HAPPEN
Why would he not understand this at all? He must not care about D5 and in fact he must not care about me either.
I am enlightening him and he's not listening to me
I am massively frustrated and hate him so much I want to beat it into him because he's not listening and he doesn't care at all about ANYONE OTHER THAN HIMSELF!
I MUST GET MY PRECIOUS KIDS AWAY FROM HIM TO SAFETY

I was actually able to get myself angry writing that, sitting here at my desk, overlooking sunny London, in my head I was enraged at why you DIDN'T GET IT, hell, I wanted to hit you as well because you were putting the (my) kids at risk of the nasty man up the street.

Is it rational, not at all... .does she think it's real/valid... .VERY MUCH SO.
 

[anchor]

Thanks Enabler!
It's good to hear that indeed I should give in on issues that relate so closely to her traumas. I haven't read anything on trauma reenactment – is it simply what is going on in BPDw mind, or is it a method to handle it for her?

I guess I have become too confident in what seemed to work for a few weeks recently after BPDw aborted therapy, namely to respond when she says very unreasonable or nasty things. I will try to stop arguing again, email is indeed a good  alternative.
Now it appeared my parents are gone this w-e, so I will see if I can come up with some other plan to avoid staying too much at home.

Thanks all for the support and advice!

[Enabler]

Trauma reinactment is the process by which W is looking for similar things to her traumatic experience and relating that traumatic experience to now. Basically she is taking unrelated experiences and applying them to current observations. I suppose like a PTSD thing. What you need to understand about emotional memory vs normal memory is that emotional experiences are AS REAL AS THEY WERE WHEN THEY WERE ORIGINALLY EXPERIENCED, this is why say a soldier may curl up in abject terror and fear of certain death when they hear a fire cracker go off. They are re-living an experience maybe 10's of years ago AS IF IT WERE NOW. Time is not a great healer for emotional memory and I have read that people with serious physiological traumas will even re-live the physical sensations as well as the emotional experience.

I am not 'telling' you to roll over on these issues, BUT, I am informing you that you could consider her experience and empathise how and why she may have a different level of tolerance to you. Ultimately both of you need to be comfortable with the tolerances else you will have conflict. She may be understanding enough to know that she should live out of her comfort zone, and in many respects she probably is by even allowing the kids out of her sight. She may acknowledge that for the children's health and wellbeing she needs to force herself to be uncomfortable, but she may still have a lower bar than you.

Do you think your W takes any pleasure in hurting you physically or emotionally?

[pearlsw]

Hi anchor,

I really like this exercise that Enabler did because it helps put us in the other person's frame of mind. In fact, I was able to borrow this to understand what thoughts might be going through my SO's head on a totally different topic today and have some empathy that I was otherwise not feeling.

That said, I also want to say I understand how hard it is for you to have a concern for this sort of thing, but not want to go overboard. The hard part is knowing when/where to draw those lines for safety/protection and the times when life just has to be lived, risk and all.

I think this may be an area you'd give her a lot of room on, but I, personally, would not give her the whole territory. I think there is something to be said for the kids and raising them a bit more "normally". My mom was sexually abused, but that did not make her overly protective of me. I was not sexually abused. I was lucky. Nothing she could have done would have prevented it though had I crossed the path of someone like this at a tender age and I got somehow manipulated. In fact, my older brother did end up being sexually abused by a neighbor kid down the street. I am not sure my parents ever knew, I accidentally walked in on it once and then was sent right out. I had no words or comprehension for what I saw so I sort of filed it away in my brain until I was much older and then a light went off in my head about what that was. I have a cousin who was molested by her childhood friend's father she disclosed one day. I think it does happen, unfortunately, a lot.

All that to say, it happens, and all the protection in the world can't always prevent it. Again, you can also do damage by overprotecting your kids. My SO's ex was abused and she never wants her kids to stay at other friend's houses or do any school trips. I think though, as they have gotten into their teens, even she has relented  due to pressure from the kids.

I think you could communicate a lot of sympathy and validate her feelings, but find some room for your point of view... .but I do believe this will take a lot of work... .and is likely one of may issues you'll struggle over. I suppose on the other hand it is worth picking your battles.

wishing you the best, pearl.

 

[anchor]

Hi Enabler I forgot to follow-up on this comment of yours:

anchor,

Some other serious flags there are mentioning divorce in front of D5. This is mentally damaging for any child.

Enabler

The issue is what is the sanction I should threaten with if/when she does it again? For PV, it's "easy" to report it to a third party, and I am sure my wife will hate it. But doing the same with a threat of divorce doesn't hold the same stigma - I am not sure she will mind. Any idea?

[Enabler]

Nicely put Pearlsw,

I think we're concluding the same thing. It's a factor in the decision making, one that she needs to be aware that she needs to give a bit on (if possible) and one where you need to consider more and give (probably a lot) on. It is your reality though.

I am constantly and shamelessly endorsing this book, but I gained a huge insight into childhood trauma from it:

Toxic Parents - Dr Susan Forward

Preview ebook -
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Toxic_Parents.html?id=E31QLmBcX14C&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Reclaiming-Paperback/dp/B00M0DB3ZG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531301173&sr=8-2&keywords=toxic+parents+susan+forward

[Enabler]

what is the sanction I should threaten with if/when she does it again? For PV, it's "easy" to report it to a third party, and I am sure my wife will hate it. But doing the same with a threat of divorce doesn't hold the same stigma - I am not sure she will mind. Any idea?

In all honesty I don't know. If you were seeing a therapist then I would suggest raising it there. But you're not. Guilting and shaming is a tricky one as pwBPD traits often have a high sensitivity here. You may well be surprised at the impact of "divorce threats IN FRONT OF KIDS" mentioned to a 3rd party as this implies that she's harming the kids and is a bad mother... .something I guess she would want to avoid at all costs. Do you use the 3rd Party as an accountability partner for her?

[anchor]

Dear all,

I just wanted to thank you for the support lately and give you an update. I spoke with our "ex-mediator" on Friday, it helped me a lot, as did your advice. My strategy now is to

1) show more empathy (and give in) on issues that relate to her childhood traumas,

2) continue to oppose clearly and immediately statements that are unacceptable in front of kids (and indeed, next time she tells D5 she wants to divorce, write an email saying that next time I will tell a common friend, just like for physical violence. It probably is uncomfortable for her),

3) when she engages in an argument about what I should do/not do that is clearly not directly related to traumas (e.g. "don't give oat flakes in cold milk to kids" keep a factual discussion that can ultimately lead to "ok, so please send me the article that explains why cold oat flakes are bed for digestion" even if it makes her angry,

4) (as you have already told me) never ever engage in an argument where I try to counter her efforts at hurting me/tell her what I perceive as the truth about her. Just say it hurts me. And remind myself that her words are just words and I can decide how much they affect me.

The last few days have been OK, and this morning she even ended up in my arms in bed.

She tells me, she is angry at everything and everyone, that she wishes she could just turn off the phone (which she sometimes does, fortunately). I am supportive and understanding and don't push in any direction at all.

Have a nice day everyone!

[Enabler]

Top work Anchor,

Nicely centralising yourself there and making clear choices about sensible issues to be firm on whilst being sensitive to her sensitivities around historic abuse. Maybe in time you will be able to have a conversation with her about other ways her legacy experiences have impacted the lens with which she looks at the world to understand her better... .but my guess is that's not for now.

Keep cuddling

Enabler

[Radcliff]

That looks good, anchor, with the only caveat being on #3.  Factual discussions are often hard to have.  Feelings matter more than facts.  On issues where I was prepared to yield, I've gotten a lot of relationship benefit from simply respecting my wife's feelings and not arguing facts.  Pick your battles carefully.  Validate and seek to understand her position if you can.

Please keep us posted.  Your plan will be tested.  It's helpful for all of us to learn how that goes and to help you respond and adapt.

WW

[braveSun]

That looks good, anchor, with the only caveat being on #3.  Factual discussions are often hard to have.  Feelings matter more than facts.  

I saw about that too. I am like you on the path to learn about the tools and trying to make things better. This thing about factual discussions is difficult. You can try with S.E.T..

Support
Empathy
Truth

Truth might be the facts you want to bring.  But I find that if there has been a lot of invalidation in my communication style to my spouse, meaning in the past, it's kind of difficult to get her acceptance with just one instance of SET or two. I think it takes persistence.

What do you think?

Brave