Accepting that you may never know the 'truth'

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi guys,

So brief summary: broke up with ex four months back, he then got engaged to someone else within less than two months.

I ended up on this board after Googling something at the time, and it really helped me to consider that perhaps my ex had BPD. He certainly displayed certain traits: the main giveaway was the uncontrollable rage he'd experience from time-to-time. And, of course, once he got engaged so quickly, I considered that another red flag. Everything unravelled so quickly, too.

The thing is, when I first found the board, it was a relief to have some sort of explanation for some very irrational behaviour. I could 'label' it in someway other than 'this makes no effing sense.' I studied Psychology at university, and I realise now that because of the very unstable behaviour my mum used to demonstrate, I was always trying to 'figure' her out - hence my choice of degree (talk about mummy issues!). And to this day, whenever someone does something to hurt me I need to find some sort of psychological label to explain the behaviour. It's like there's part of me that can't handle the simple explanation of "people can be odd sometimes."

As I delved more and more into the posts on this board over the last few months, and tried to apply a 'firm conclusion' as to why my ex did what he did, I got more and more confused. If you've read any of my posts you'll know that my ex comes from a very different culture to mine, and it's now very clear that his mum did not see me as the ideal candidate for 'bride' but played along until she found the right opportunity to 'ponce.' Again, retrospect eh? And she did her damage, and the result, well, you know the result.

So then I drive myself insane with questions of 'how much of it was BPD?' (if it was even that!) and 'how much of it was his crazy family and his guilt-ridden relationship with his mother?'

Yes, I know the answer here is that the exact in ands out shouldn't matter; he hurt me deeply through his actions. And I guess I'm going to have to find some sense of 'closure' by telling myself that I may be able to draw some conclusions, but I don't know anything for certain. Maybe I will someday, maybe I won't. And this is the part I'm now finding hard to grapple with. Anyone else feel this way?  

And does BPD exist on a spectrum? That is, can someone demonstrate some of the traits but not necessarily be full-blown BPD? Because that's what I'm leaning towards with him.

[Hopeful83]

Hi guys,

So brief summary: broke up with ex four months back, he then got engaged to someone else within less than two months.

I ended up on this board after Googling something at the time, and it really helped me to consider that perhaps my ex had BPD. He certainly displayed certain traits: the main giveaway was the uncontrollable rage he'd experience from time-to-time. And, of course, once he got engaged so quickly, I considered that another red flag. Everything unravelled so quickly, too.

The thing is, when I first found the board, it was a relief to have some sort of explanation for some very irrational behaviour. I could 'label' it in someway other than 'this makes no effing sense.' I studied Psychology at university, and I realise now that because of the very unstable behaviour my mum used to demonstrate, I was always trying to 'figure' her out - hence my choice of degree (talk about mummy issues!). And to this day, whenever someone does something to hurt me I need to find some sort of psychological label to explain the behaviour. It's like there's part of me that can't handle the simple explanation of "people can be odd sometimes."

As I delved more and more into the posts on this board over the last few months, and tried to apply a 'firm conclusion' as to why my ex did what he did, I got more and more confused. If you've read any of my posts you'll know that my ex comes from a very different culture to mine, and it's now very clear that his mum did not see me as the ideal candidate for 'bride' but played along until she found the right opportunity to 'ponce.' Again, retrospect eh? And she did her damage, and the result, well, you know the result.

So then I drive myself insane with questions of 'how much of it was BPD?' (if it was even that!) and 'how much of it was his crazy family and his guilt-ridden relationship with his mother?'

Yes, I know the answer here is that the exact in ands out shouldn't matter; he hurt me deeply through his actions. And I guess I'm going to have to find some sense of 'closure' by telling myself that I may be able to draw some conclusions, but I don't know anything for certain. Maybe I will someday, maybe I won't. And this is the part I'm now finding hard to grapple with. Anyone else feel this way?  

And does BPD exist on a spectrum? That is, can someone demonstrate some of the traits but not necessarily be full-blown BPD? Because that's what I'm leaning towards with him.

[enlighten me]

Hi Hopeful

I think we can all relate to swinging between if it was BPD or something else. If it was us or them. At the end of the day what helped me was to look at other interactions and see how they compared to my exs. Their behaviour wasn't right and like you having a label helped me.

I think that it does have a spectrum and you can have some of the traits and not be classed as full blown but these traits could be severe. You can also have all the traits to a lesser degree so not be as obvious.

I also think it is circumstantial. Depending on the circumstances depends if any of the traits come out. During stressful times they could be at their very worst.

It all depends on the individual as well.

[Hopeful83]

Hi Hopeful

I think we can all relate to swinging between if it was BPD or something else. If it was us or them. At the end of the day what helped me was to look at other interactions and see how they compared to my exs. Their behaviour wasn't right and like you having a label helped me.

I think that it does have a spectrum and you can have some of the traits and not be classed as full blown but these traits could be severe. You can also have all the traits to a lesser degree so not be as obvious.

I also think it is circumstantial. Depending on the circumstances depends if any of the traits come out. During stressful times they could be at their very worst.

It all depends on the individual as well.

Hello enlighten me 

Thanks for your reply.

I think there comes a point when you really do have to let it go. I was talking to a friend about this a few weeks back and I was saying how I'm starting to think I should look at this whole saga as a police file. I've got all the evidence that I can with the information to hand, and I can come to xyz conclusions on the basis of that information. However, there's no firm evidence to draw a definitive conclusion, so the file needs to be closed for now. That's not to say that I may not get information in the future that will warrant me reopening the file in order to come to the definitive conclusion. It helps for me to look at it this way instead of thinking 'oh well, I'll never know so that's that.' Yes, I may never know, but thinking of it as something a bit more fluid helps me better.

In my situation I'm starting to think: the family didn't want us together, he knew that, latched onto this z list ex of his who wanted to get married, and buried himself in the 'relationship' as a distraction from the pain. I may be wrong, but it's what my instinct told me from the beginning. Add the possibility of BPD to the mix, and it would explain why he was so susceptible to outside influences.

Sorry, another ramble. It helps to type things out sometimes.

Hopeful.

[Creativum]

The thing is, someone with BPD -- or even only BPD tendencies -- has tremendous difficulty being alone in the first place, but they also can't bear the idea of being with someone who actually loves them.

Oftentimes, a person with BPD will latch onto whoever is available at that moment.  My ex would always go for very easy targets (usually lonely, significantly older men) and let them baby him, wine him and dine him, and then he would simply discard them.  He'd then cry and carry on about how these men took advantage of him.  Now, I think it was a mutual thing -- someone age 60 who gets together with a 24-year old is absolutely taking advantage of someone.  But at the end of the day, the pwBPD is much more likely to be taking advantage of the other relationship partner, whether they realize it or not.

After a significant break-up, the pwBPD will typically, in my experience, do one of two things:  engage in very self-destructive behaviors (my ex got himself fired from work for sexual harassment when he went off the rails -- sex is his method of "cutting" or they will immediately latch onto someone else who will give them the time of day.  If they self destruct or if they can't find that new source of supply, they will often come back for a recycle.  

It's important to remember that the person you loved is not the person behind these behaviors.  It's BPD that's behind these behaviors.  So whatever you found special about your relationship? Well, some of it really was special and unique.  And that usually explains the self-destruction and immediately jumping into a relationship with whoever is available at the time.  They panic because they're alone again.  The end.

[enlighten me]

Hi Hopeful

I think that's an excellent way to look at it. Like a police file that gets put away until a new piece of evidence comes up. Like the police you can exhaust yourself looking for something but in reality you have more productive things to do so you need to prioritise them. Also like the police when that new information turns up those records might be buried too deep to warrant even bothering to add to or the case may be dead and buried so the information is no longer valid.

[OnceConfused]

I know many times we try to find closures so as to put our mind at peace, but the majority of times, there are no closure.  It is just what LIFE IS, as the French says it well, C'est La Vie.

If we all have closures then we will need NO RELIGION, NO CHURCH, NO PSYCHOLOGY, NO SUPPORT GROUP.   

My late wife died at the age of 48, a good mother, a great friend to many, a participant in our local community. She was involved in a car accident and left me with 3 young daughters, age 10,13 and 16.

I cried to God as to why such a tragedy happened to all of us and tried to find answer. Well, the answer was that just the way life is, some die at birth, some birth during childhood, some die during middle age or old age, but we all are going to die. So the question is now whether we die or not but whether we have lived fully in each moment.  THAT WAS MY CLOSURE and my life attitude - live fully and mindfully.

[Hopeful83]

The thing is, someone with BPD -- or even only BPD tendencies -- has tremendous difficulty being alone in the first place, but they also can't bear the idea of being with someone who actually loves them.

Oftentimes, a person with BPD will latch onto whoever is available at that moment.  My ex would always go for very easy targets (usually lonely, significantly older men) and let them baby him, wine him and dine him, and then he would simply discard them.  He'd then cry and carry on about how these men took advantage of him.  Now, I think it was a mutual thing -- someone age 60 who gets together with a 24-year old is absolutely taking advantage of someone.  But at the end of the day, the pwBPD is much more likely to be taking advantage of the other relationship partner, whether they realize it or not.

After a significant break-up, the pwBPD will typically, in my experience, do one of two things:  engage in very self-destructive behaviors (my ex got himself fired from work for sexual harassment when he went off the rails -- sex is his method of "cutting" or they will immediately latch onto someone else who will give them the time of day.  If they self destruct or if they can't find that new source of supply, they will often come back for a recycle.  

It's important to remember that the person you loved is not the person behind these behaviors.  It's BPD that's behind these behaviors.  So whatever you found special about your relationship? Well, some of it really was special and unique.  And that usually explains the self-destruction and immediately jumping into a relationship with whoever is available at the time.  They panic because they're alone again.  The end.

Thank you. And it's this reasoning that's helped me immensely. Even if he's not full-blown BPD getting engaged to someone within two months of coming out of a three-year relationship that was heading for marriage is NOT normal behaviour.

Whenever I have bad days, that's the thought I hold in my mind.

[Hopeful83]

Hi Hopeful

I think that's an excellent way to look at it. Like a police file that gets put away until a new piece of evidence comes up. Like the police you can exhaust yourself looking for something but in reality you have more productive things to do so you need to prioritise them. Also like the police when that new information turns up those records might be buried too deep to warrant even bothering to add to or the case may be dead and buried so the information is no longer valid.

Exactly. I may not even care enough to 'revisit' the file if new information comes up, but knowing for now that I may have the option some day does help.

[Hopeful83]

I know many times we try to find closures so as to put our mind at peace, but the majority of times, there are no closure.  It is just what LIFE IS, as the French says it well, C'est La Vie.

If we all have closures then we will need NO RELIGION, NO CHURCH, NO PSYCHOLOGY, NO SUPPORT GROUP.   

My late wife died at the age of 48, a good mother, a great friend to many, a participant in our local community. She was involved in a car accident and left me with 3 young daughters, age 10,13 and 16.

I cried to God as to why such a tragedy happened to all of us and tried to find answer. Well, the answer was that just the way life is, some die at birth, some birth during childhood, some die during middle age or old age, but we all are going to die. So the question is now whether we die or not but whether we have lived fully in each moment.  THAT WAS MY CLOSURE and my life attitude - live fully and mindfully.

You're right. Sometimes there are no answers, and that, admittedly, drives me nuts. But I try to make peace with it by focusing on the present moment, which in all reality is all that really matters!

[JohnLove]

There is no "full blown BPD" unless you have all the traits at a severe level. Less than 5 traits and you dont qualify for a disorder. This is the conventional western psychological model. BPD is a disorder that occurs as a spectrum. A very wide and/or deep series of traits. Everyone is different but there can be astounding similarities. Quantifying things and placing labels is one thing but it doesn't make much difference unless you are trying to understand or seeking help.

Your instincts or your intuition may be exactly right. More importantly your heart will tell you the truth. That first fleeting moment when you have a feeling about something. That is your heart. You have to be quick to catch it. Everything later is clouded by the mind and your thoughts. But the heart does not lie.

[Learning Fast]

I agree with Creativum and JL on the spectrum nature of the disorder and rapid "replacement".  It's doubtful that my exuBPDgf has "full blown" BPD.  I would describe her as having the traits, symptoms, and characteristics of the disorder.  This is an important distinction because I never experienced the more dramatic and egregious behaviors that I've read in these posts.  The lion's share of her erratic behavior was caused by BPD IMHO.  Cultural differences may have played a part but I suspect that that BPD was the main drive for you as well.

Mine latched on to her replacement about 10 days after we split for the summer (after on again/off again for about 2 yrs) confirming the fear of loneliness that so many of us have experienced.  The fact that the new guy was available completely drove her behavior (from a different state, quite a bit older than her, lives alone and has a reputation as a player---I was told of all of this thru another source).  One thing that I did suggest to her was that she should minimally have regular STD tests.  She looked at me like I had eight heads and said "Why would I need to do that?".  Ugh.

[Hopeful83]

I agree with Creativum and JL on the spectrum nature of the disorder and rapid "replacement".  It's doubtful that my exuBPDgf has "full blown" BPD.  I would describe her as having the traits, symptoms, and characteristics of the disorder.  This is an important distinction because I never experienced the more dramatic and egregious behaviors that I've read in these posts.  The lion's share of her erratic behavior was caused by BPD IMHO.  Cultural differences may have played a part but I suspect that that BPD was the main drive for you as well.

Mine latched on to her replacement about 10 days after we split for the summer (after on again/off again for about 2 yrs) confirming the fear of loneliness that so many of us have experienced.  The fact that the new guy was available completely drove her behavior (from a different state, quite a bit older than her, lives alone and has a reputation as a player---I was told of all of this thru another source).  One thing that I did suggest to her was that she should minimally have regular STD tests.  She looked at me like I had eight heads and said "Why would I need to do that?".  Ugh.

Yeah, that makes sense now. I think he has strong traits of it; makes a lot of sense when I look at it like that. Thanks guys.