My sister is berating and shaming my kids

[I Am Redeemed]

Background for context: My sister has legal guardianship of my oldest kids. I have an informal arrangement with her to get overnight visits with my kids every Friday. Before school started, it was Wed thru Friday. I would go to church with them on Wed night and take them home with me, bringing them back before work on Friday night.

Sis has some PD traits which I am slowly recognizing. She is 21 years older than me and also raised me due to my mother's mental illness.

Nearly every visit, one kid or another is not allowed to spend the night for some kind of infraction.

Two weeks ago, the last week before school started, S7 was not allowed to come because he put his fingers in his ears and refused to listen to his teacher during class at church.

The following week, D12 and D11 were not allowed to spend the night Friday because their room was not clean. My sis sent me pics to show me how messy the room was. The kids did get to spend the day with me on Sat.

This week, I went to their house to pick them up. I had texted my sister earlier to make sure the visit was still on. She asked if she should feed them supper because I had to pick up S3 from daycare and make it across town to get them. I said that's fine. When I got there, D5 was crying and I was told she refused to eat her beef stew so she was not spending the night. She was given a choice, my sister said, and she would not eat it, so she wasn't going.

S7 and S6 helped me put the overnight bag in the car. I went in and D12 was told to finish cleaning up the table. S6 comes running in and says S7 is pushing buttons in my car. Sis says "tell him to come here!"

She proceeded to berate him for doing something so dangerous as playing in the car- one time, when she was little, our other sister did that and knocked the car into drive. She jumped out and hit her head. She recounted this story. She asked S7 "Why were you in there? Are you old enough to drive? NO! You could make the car roll down the hill! You know better!" On and on. Her tone was very aggressive. S7 was frozen. I was frozen. It was an immediate flashback for me. She tried to force S7 into admitting his wrongdoing. He tried to say that all he did was push the lock button. She said it didn't matter, and what he did was dangerous. He started to cry and said "I want to go to Redeemed's" (they don't call me Mom in her presence- only by my first name). She said "it doesn't matter. You have one chance to tell me the truth." So he said in a small voice "I did it". And then she said "WELL, you're not going to Redeemed's. You cannot spend the night. She can pick you up tomorrow at dance with D5."

Instant tears, now two kids are crying, D12 is trying to comfort them, I'm trying to hug them and tell them we'll see them tomorrow. We get in the car and leave, down two kids now.

Fifteen minutes later she calls both my phone and D12's phone and proceeds to interrogate D11, who had been outside with S3, about why the outside lights that line the walk are all knocked over. D11 says S3 did it. Why didn't she tell someone? I told Redeemed. Well what are you going to do about it? I said "tell her I will take you over there to fix them tomorrow before I pick up S7 and D5 at dance class".

This morning at dance, she was still on a tirade. D12 said she called D11 a brat. She came over to my car while D5 and S7 were getting in and berated D11 once more about the lights (she also interrogated me) and then got in s3's face and said "YOU DON"T TOUCH MY LIGHTS! THEY ARE NOT YOURS!".

S7 tried to say goodbye. She said "BYE!" and left. The silence in the car was deafening. I felt the simultaneous struggle to process going on within all of us, and I felt like one of my kids instead of their parent.

D12 and S7 began venting about how angry she is all the time and how she takes it out on them. She's always mad at them for something. She says they're stupid. She also tells them that I can't take care of them, I used to do drugs, I lost all my stuff because I didn't care about it, and I don't need pets because I can't take care of animals. She puts them down, and she puts me down to them. I suspected this.

This was all incredibly triggering to me. It wasn't so much what she was saying as the rapid-fire interrogation and tone of voice she used. I also think there is some passive-aggressive control tactics going on in addition to some alienation, but she is being careful to make it look quite the opposite (telling S7 "I'm not going to keep you from visiting but you can't spend the night". That statement was made on purpose so I can't say "she's not letting me see my kids."

This is all very hard to process, and there isn't much I can do until I can hire a lawyer. Things are tighter than ever financially right now as I am paying for daycare when I wasn't before. I have applied for child care assistance but of course that takes time to be approved.

Just wanted to get some of this out. I find it very frustrating and ironic that I lost custody of my kids for "failure to protect" them from witnessing abuse, and the system placed them in a situation where I now CAN'T protect them from verbal and emotional abuse.

[ForeverDad]

I'll admit I haven't been following your family circumstances.  Do the kids have a counselor?  My lawyer told me, Court loves counseling.  Even if your older sister refuses to allow counseling, I feel you'd have a good chance of finding an approach so that they do have that access.  If you try, include a vetted list of potential proven counselors.  Last thing you want is for her to comply by choosing inept or gullible professionals.

In fact, if she does refuse them counseling, it would be an added factor or basis to see a return of custodial authority.  If your circumstances have improved since older sister took over — and your home can't be construed as abusive, neglectful or endangering anymore) — you have basis to seek their return to your custody or, failing that, a better and firmer schedule.

A big plus for you is that you care for the youngest child.  Courts like to have split siblings reunited.  If the prior removal reasons are no longer existing, then why in the world not reunite the children with you?

Another potential resource is school counselors and even their teachers in general.  While their focus may be on school matters, their input would be helpful if things ended up in court.  I recall in my case that in my final order change I got majority time during the school year.  While I was successful in exposing my ex's poor behaviors, supported by my son's Guardian ad Litem (GAL) testimony, it was obvious the school's report of mother's actions got the most traction when the order was reformulated.

Usually visitation is locked into a schedule.  Right now that's a weakness for you.  Where their punishment for misbehavior is denial of time with their parent, that won't fly in court, or so I believe.  I'd see that as a major No No, or at least a matter of concern.

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks FD,

Yes, if I had a court order it would protect them (and me) from losing time because she wants to punish them for something. I'm absolutely going to have to hire a lawyer and I am going to as soon as I get my finances more settled. I've come a long way since leaving my abusive r/s with stbx ubpdh, and I am still moving forward. I will complete my bachelor's degree next July and will be enrolled in a master's program next fall, so better days are ahead. Currently, I have a job as a waitress, supplemented with financial aid (student loans- but the debt will be worth it) every four months.

I knew going in to this that the power dynamic was going to be in her favor for a while.

When she had the kids as a foster parent and CPS was still involved, the oldest two daughters were in counseling. After she was granted guardianship, she took them out of counseling. S7 is supposed to be seeing a child psychologist soon related to behavior issues that he had (he was kicked out of kindergarten, sent to an alternative school, and was home schooled for first grade).

My sister believed that all my kids needed was to get away from ubpdh and me and that she could turn them into perfect, well-behaved, church going children with good grades and show the world what a wonderful, stable home they have with her. The only time she mentions counseling is when that theory starts to show holes and the kids don't act like she wants them to, in which case she says there is something wrong with them which she blames on either one of the two mentally ill fathers (my two oldest have a dad with bipolar, ADHD, and substance abuse issues and the four youngest ones' dad is stbx ubpdh who also has substance abuse issues and is paranoid/delusional). She also blames me, but not to my face- only to my kids.

I do believe that, eventually, I will be in a position to seek custody restored. I plan to hire a lawyer as soon as it is financially feasible so that I can at the very least start with a court ordered parenting plan that locks in my time with my kids. I'm tired of being treated like their aunt instead of their mother (she has actually fed my kids this BS- "Redeemed is more like your aunt. I'm your mother").

Yes, having S3 is in my favor. I think a good lawyer would also see the fallacy in CPS' decision to not open a case on S3, leave him in my custody (and ubpdh's at the time) while simultaneously pushing to have my sister take legal guardianship of my oldest kids.

It will be a hard battle. Sis gets almost $4,000 a month in a subsidy from the state for being a guardian for my kids. She is retired and doesn't work. Her husband is a middle manager for a factory. They recently bought (within the last two years) a new four-bedroom house in a nice, upstanding neighborhood as well as two new vehicles. They have gone to the same church for years and have the "stable family" image down pat.

I have a two-bedroom rental in a blue-collar neighborhood, a 16-year-old used van, and a waitress job. But I also have plans to move forward and goals which I have and am reaching.

I know what I need to do going forward legally, and it isn't something I can immediately change. I can accept that and know that I have a plan for change, so that is just something that will take time and effort to bring into fruition. In the meantime, I need to learn how best to validate my kids when they vent to me without triangulating. I want to be the emotionally safe person in their lives, and it's hard when I am getting triggered myself by her behavior because it takes me back to my own core negative messages from childhood.

So that is my immediate challenge- stay centered, stay in the middle of the triangle, and validate and support my kids emotionally while managing my own triggers. 

[formflier]

Is there a "plan" in the current custody agreement of what happens if you "get better" or is the guardianship considered "permanent.

The stuff you talked about, not eating so you won't get to go...sounds like very "churchy" discipline to me.  I do think kids should obey, yet it appears your sis is putting their obedience ABOVE their relationship with you.

I would have to guess that your biggest hurdle is to get the logistics worked out to be able to prove to the court you can take them back full time.

Is there an interim step where you get court ordered time/counseling with them?

My thought is that if you get several counselors saying you are compliant/solid...and you get logistics worked out...and you can reunite sibs...

That's bigtime in your favor.

Best,

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

FF,

It is very "churchy" behavior- the kind I grew up with, where you were expected to do things right because God didn't like it when you didn't.

The legal guardianship is considered permanent. My rights were not terminated, though, so I could pursue regaining custody and terminating the guardianship, though it will be more of a challenge than if she and her husband had "temporary custody".

There were no plans for paths going forward when guardianship was established. My court-appointed attorney did not even address a plan for visitation other than the supervised visits which were still in place (despite the fact that I had uninterrupted custody of S3).

The last order for visitation that was made is now five years old. It was established that I would have supervised therapeutic visitation through a local child advocacy center. Once CPS was no longer involved, the child advocacy center told me that they could not continue the visitation. That left me to negotiate with my sister regarding visitation. My court-appointed attorney told me last year that once I got settled with my own place where the kids could come stay overnight she would file a motion to review visitation with the court. I tried over and over to contact her and she won't return my calls. My sister said that it's because she isn't getting paid anymore, and that CPS had told her that the case was closed since she got guardianship and so my lawyer (and ubpdh's lawyer) were no longer our attorneys. The attorneys both told us differently, but at any rate she would not return my calls so that leaves me to hire my own attorney. I prefer that anyway because the court appointed attorney really only did the bare minimum required and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that she grew up with my ubpdh in their small hometown and she felt it was a losing battle to defend any woman that chose to be in a r/s with him with his history.

The "action plan" that CPS gave me towards regaining custody kept changing. Assessments were done- then months later "recommendations" from these assessments were suddenly brought up: "Oh, yeah, by the way, they recommended xyz" and it would be something ridiculous, like an intensive mental health outpatient class, and if I had known about the recommendation my T could have written a statement saying that was not necessary. Or CPS would suddenly say that I needed to complete IOP drug treatment, which was impossible because IOP requirements state that a person does not qualify unless they are less than 30 days sober or have recently been released from an inpatient drug rehab. At the last court hearing, CPS tried to say that I needed to go back and do the 12 week parenting classes all over again because only my boys were in foster care at the time- not the girls (they were in relative custody; that changed later).

CPS tried to force me to go to a support group for parents of abused children. The coordinator told me she did not allow court-ordered clients in her support group. CPS then lied and said that the coordinator told them she would not let me in the group because I did not believe the abuse allegations they made, and told me I needed to go back to the group and "not say things like that". I went back, told the coordinator what they said, and she said "I have NEVER spoken to anyone with CPS regarding you or your case." Then CPS told the court I "refused services".

Later, they forced me once again to go back to the support group. The coordinator was a different woman, and I was the only person who showed up for the "group". I told her why I was there, and that I did not feel comfortable signing the paper that said I was participating of my own free will. I explained the whole situation to her. Turns out she was a former CPS worker, and she said my rights had been violated and that I should contact a good lawyer. That was right before guardianship was granted.