She doesn't want me to see therapist

[formflier]

  She is being rewarded for coming after you. 

Many of the rewards can be counter-intuitive, which is why they need a great deal of thought and understanding.

What I look at your r/s, this seems to be the central dynamic that needs to be broken.  My was paranoia and  accusations.

That doesn't mean everything is fixed after "breaking" the dynamic, it means the r/s is pliable again.

Does that make sense?

FF

[ozmatoz]

Indeed, this has been mentally taxing.  I get WW's point of rewarding "normal behavior" and I do that already.  I thank her in front of the kids for cooking dinner, If I see her feeding the dogs I thank her.  If I notice the dishes were done I thank her.  Any of the normal day to day stuff families take care of I thank her.  In the morning when we're both running around like crazy with the kids (and not fighting) I get her coffee ready or at the very least get the coffee ready to go with a cup out for her.

I would think these "rewards" would be a good thing.  I do see the fighting and rewarding her with my time when she comes after me.
FF paranoia is a huge part in my r/s too.  Just this morning I received a text wanting to know why I had packed a pair of dress/work clothes in my suitcase for my upcoming trip.  Every time I go away she searches through everything.  I simply wouldn't respond even though she asked 8 times.  My final response was a bit invalidating but it stopped the question.  I reminded her that if she had been listening to me and D16 over the last few weeks she would know why the clothes were packed.  It ended there.

I've been trying to break the dynamic but she is relentless.  I just want some peace.
Today of all days I have it thrown in my face that her previous affair partner reached out (she showed me yesterday) hoping she was ok.
Then its thrown in my face that her "ex-boyfriend" has made more effort than her husband.  I know this is just more jousting, but really, when is enough enough? 

I reminded her that actions like that are not what makes me want to put any effort in.  Her reply "Its not my responsibility to make you want to put forth an effort.  Thats on you"  I get it that effort is my choice, but can she really not understand how her actions affect that choice?  She is looking for a "reward" for this action (she'll get none).  Then later I'm the bad guy again for not rewarding her.

I'm pulling out what little hair I have left... .

[formflier]

For paranoid worrying express concern about their feelings and give no details on the question.

pants question

"It intuitively seemed like a good thing to pack.  Why do you ask?"

FF

[Radcliff]

Today of all days I have it thrown in my face that her previous affair partner reached out (she showed me yesterday) hoping she was ok.
Then its thrown in my face that her "ex-boyfriend" has made more effort than her husband.  I know this is just more jousting, but really, when is enough enough? 

 I don't want to fan the flames, but have to say "I'm sorry man, that totally sucks that you had to hear that on Valentine's Day."

I reminded her that actions like that are not what makes me want to put any effort in.  Her reply "Its not my responsibility to make you want to put forth an effort.  Thats on you" 

Sorry, I have to award the point to her on this one.  At least, in the Land of Oz, that was a misstep.

I get it that effort is my choice, but can she really not understand how her actions affect that choice? 

No, she cannot.

I'm pulling out what little hair I have left... .

How do you look in a baseball cap? 

Have fun on that trip with D16!  Are you looking at colleges?

WW

[Red5]

Oz!

Sending positive karma your way this morning... .

Been away a while, and back here reading your posts,

formflier writes in regards to the "pants question":

"It intuitively seemed like a good thing to pack.  Why do you ask?"

That is an excellent reply, I do this as well, well maybe a bit different approach... .as in'... .wife says; "Why did you do pack your x-model phaser for this trip you’re going on"... .I reply, AFTER a short pause, and maybe a short look off into space, and in another direction other than hers, as if deep in thought, waiting a few moments/seconds to re-engage her... .

"Seemed like a good idea at the time", .then I immediately redirect (toss a shiny object) and I may say something completely off subject, to quote "Monty Pythons Flying Circus"... ."and now for something completelyyyyy different!"... .like... ."I find it very interesting that the Saturn V rocket is the most powerful man made machine ever created"

... .as in' throw her off her line of questioning a little, she is like “huh”, what in the world is he talking about”… and I may launch yet another shiny object to once again put distance in between her, and her last line of questioning,  as in'

... ."in a few more weeks, I am going to get the boat engine ready for summer, I need to get some parts for it, I think I need a fuel line, a couple of clamps, maybe a spark plug, and a flux capacitor too; and do a good tune-up, what did you do with the last issue of Boating in the Free World, I need to check on something I read in that issue"

… thus leaving her a bit befuddled, and off the original intent of her questioning (peace for me)… works very well for me.

Today of all days I have it thrown in my face that her previous affair partner reached out (she showed me yesterday) hoping she was ok.

Then its thrown in my face that her "ex-boyfriend" has made more effort than her husband.  I know this is just more jousting, but really, when is enough enough?

Wentworth wrote to you: I don't want to fan the flames, but have to say "I'm sorry man, that totally sucks that you had to hear that on Valentine's Day."

Yeah… that would pretty much p-i-s-s me o-f-f… you are a better Man than me Oz, I’d have probably slipped my rail at hearing that Brother.

Then I would then have had to impose sanctions, and other angry countermeasures reslutant.

Sounds like you are going to have a great time with your D16, that’s awesome, enjoy them, as they do grow up way too fast !

Red5

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Hey oz, I'm really sorry to hear you're going through all this. Everyone posting has great advice, IMO. My ex tried the "my ex contacted me" thing too towards the end of our marriage. I think he was trying to make me jealous or something. By that point, I was praying someone would "take" him from me, even if it was his ex-fiance from twenty years ago. In this case, my reaction was "Oh, that's nice. Tell her I said hi!" Then I went back to what I was doing. It seemed to totally throw him for a loop. I think he was hoping for an outburst or something. I'll admit that it felt good to throw him off for once. Maybe she's trying to make you jealous and get a reaction out of you. I think that any reaction (good or bad) makes them feel something. It may make them feel in control or powerful or something like that and I think that may be why they do it. I think my ex thrives on drama because it probably makes him feel alive - like an endorphin hit.

Oh man, the paranoia! It drove me nuts too! He would go through my work phone routinely (boy did he rage when I changed the passcode), listened in on my work conversations at home (I get called after hours when there are problems at work), went through my purse routinely, went through my drawers, went through my emails, used the smartphone to track my whereabouts at all times (why aren't you in your work building right now?), tracked my ATM uses (I noticed you took money out at exactly 12:45pm), why did you get coffee on the way to work (I saw you), etc. It got pretty bad. It got to the point to where I was tempted to sarcastically text him every time I went to the bathroom. I think he has major abandonment issues which is probably why he did all this. It doesn't excuse it by any means but I think it explains some of it.

I tried to tell him several times that all this behavior was just pushing me away. He never seemed to grasp that and he just got worse.

Having read the entire thread, I think it's all manipulation on their part probably to keep us on our toes. It's like they thrive on chaos and drama. That's when I learned (the hard way) to react indifferent to any and everything he said to me. It wasn't easy by any means. Especially when he would then call me a cold, heartless, callous b***h who is incapable of feeling emotions or empathy for anyone and so on. This is where knowing yourself, taking care of your mental/emotional health will help you not buy into her attacks on your character and parenting. Personally, I labeled that as projection on his part. Then I'd respond with something like "you can think whatever you want to. meh. whatever. there's no point in discussing it" and walked away. Not saying that's a good thing but that's what I did for my peace of mind.  Yeah he'd try to escalate but I worked on and refused to give him the satisfaction of an outburst of any kind. Eventually he'd stop. 

With my therapists help, I learned to imagine an invisible shield every time he came into the room. With practice, anything he said to me didn't get to me. It helped me remain indifferent. Sometimes I would imagine him standing in front of me as a little boy, mostly because he was acting like a child. Other times I'd imagine a cartoon bubble coming out of his head. I heard everything he said but it didn't "get" to me. I don't know if you've tried anything like this or if it would help you or not.

Even though I've been divorced for a couple of years now, there are times when I still try to wrap my head around something he says or does that makes absolutely no sense to me. Most of the time I chalk it up to "he's delusional". It really does seem like his reality is completely different than mine and we speak a different language. The words we use seem to have different meanings to each other. For example, when I say he abused me I am referring to his controlling, manipulating, isolating, shaming, physical aggressive, etc. behavior. When he says I abused him, it seems he considers abuse to be anytime I disagree with him or he doesn't get his way. For example, I simply would write to him that I disagree with his unfounded accusations. He then replied that what I just wrote was abusive! It's so bizarre! A lot of times I find myself just shaking my head and walking away. I have better things to use my energy on. It took some time for me to get to that point, though.

I hope some of this helps. Hang in there.

[Tattered Heart]

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