Hurt by son's distance from family

[Mickey47]

Well my son did not go get his daughter after all and there's always an excuse. His BP1/BPD wife is sick, grandparents (who they live with) are sick or she wants to be able to sleep during the day with him, because he works nights. He informed us he will not be around for Thanksgiving or Christmas. She still not in treatment for either one of her disorders and still thinks she can heal herself. So upset, disappointed and depressed.

[Kwamina]

Hi Mickey47

I am sorry to hear you are feeling so upset. When someone with BPD enters the family, that can indeed really affect all family dynamics. Your son is an adult and responsible for his own choices, yet I can understand how challenging and likely frustrating this situation must be for you.

It's quite unfortunate that your son's wife does not seek the help she needs. Do you feel like she truly acknowledges, understands and accepts her diagnoses? Did she at any point get any kind of professional help after she got diagnosed?

You mention your son did not go get his daughter, how would you generally describe the way he treats his daughter?

How did your son inform you that he wouldn't be around for Thanksgiving and Christmas?

Take care

The Board Parrot

[Mickey47]

He was a very good father before, he was attentive and extremely close to his daughter. Yes, she was on medication and went to therapy, but said she didn't need it and that she can heal herself. She told my son it was making her even worse and she always has a problem with her therapist. All I hear is excuse after excuse about why she can't take meds or go to therapy.

He is buying a car from his dad and came over to pay on it and visited with us for a good 30 mins. He informed us then about Thanksgiving and Christmas. He doesn't get his daughter this year for Thanksgiving, but he is suppose to get her for Christmas. I said "what about Christmas day and seeing her get her Santa Clause stuff this is the year you get to have that experience with her?" He just said "well I have to work mom so I'll just miss it again" My heart is just broken and I had a little hope this past weekend, but saw he never picked up the carseat so I know he didn't get her. I'm so heart broken and trying to cling to my faith, but at the same time screaming "why did he marry her WHY?" I pray he sees the truth of her and stops just ignoring it being in denial or whatever it is he is doing to be with her. In March they will have been together for 2 yrs. But just married in October none of us were happy, but we attended the wedding. I cried the entire time!

[Kwamina]

It's sad that your son now seems to be less engaged in his daughter's life. How is your granddaughter responding to her father not being around that much anymore?

When you consider how your son was before he met his now wife, would you say there were times before that you felt he let himself be greatly influenced or controlled by other people? Have you ever seen him behave before in ways similar to how he's acting now since he's in this relationship?

[Notwendy]

Mickey- I am sorry and I know this is hurtful.

This is how I learned to understand my father- I thought BPD mom was the problem. I had to accept his part in this. Through my reading into my own marriage, I learned about the ways we could match a partner. The person who matches with someone with BPD doesn't necessarily have BPD but tends to have strong rescuing/enabling tendencies. I had to work on these aspects in myself- as they tend to run in families and I recognized this pattern in my father.

In a way, he was "addicted" to being a rescuer to my mother. This situation caused him a lot of pain but just like an addition, he was drawn to this. Their relationship was difficult,  but somehow this bond- rescuer/victim fueled by drama and their romantic bond was very strong. My mother seems to be in constant "victim" mode- seeing other people as "not on her side". It didn't matter if that person was his mother, siblings, and his own daughter. If she felt victimized by them, he rescued her by rallying to her side and her wishes.

You mentioned that his wife should help with his daughter. In her world, I would say she may not feel that way at all. She isn't her daughter and she may perceive the child ( and anyone else  besides her in your son's life ) as competition for your son's resources and attention. Your son may want to see his daughter, but I will be so bold as to guess that the reason he doesn't is that his wife doesn't want him to.

It's not the daughter and it isn't you. The issue I observed in my father is that he deferred to my mother's wishes no matter what for reasons I both understood and didn't. I know how she reacts when people say no to her, and it's pretty rough. Like your son, my father needed to support his family, to go to work, and there is only so much energy to deal with things.

IMHO, the child is better off being with a mother who wants her than being in a household with a BPD stepmother who doesn't want her and a father who is willing to give up his relationship with her for the stepmother. I am my BPD mother's "black child" and she felt no affection for me. A bright spot growing up was that my father's family loved us kids and we spent a lot of time with them. I had aunts, uncles and grandparents who loved me growing up and this made all the difference for me. Staying with them was peaceful and nurturing. My own home was all about mom and her unstable moods prevailed-rages, verbal abuse.

[Mickey47]

K & Notwendy

Yes K my son has been influenced before, but it didn't last long and he figured the people out and go away from them. However he never allowed anything or anyone before his wife to come between any of us or his daughter.

I've decided to just focus on my grand daughter, because my son called last night to talk to his dad again about his car. The EXCUSE for not seeing my grand daughter was classic his wife had a appendicitis and NO she did not go to the hospital or doctor. She thinks she can self diagnose she thinks she's a botanist when she's didn't even graduate High School and doesn't even have a GED. No college no nothing. I'm sorry if she had a appendicitis she'd be dead right now. I had my appendix removed when I was 9 so I know all about that crap. I heard him talking to his dad and had to leave the room, because I wanted to scream out his was being dumb to believe that crap. The more excuses I hear the more angry I become towards my son, because he is capable of seeing the truth and chooses not to. I'm trying very hard not to blame or get angry, but when it comes to that baby I can't help, but want to just shake sense into him.     

[Notwendy]

Yes, a degree in botany makes you an expert on human medicine too.   I agree though if she had appendicitis, she would want to be seen by a doctor.

I know you want to shake some sense into him. It doesn't make sense but it is his choice, and only he can choose what to do.

My mother also tends to come up with made up"medical" excuses. She doesn't have a medical background. I works for them as your DIL doesn't have to be honest about not wanting the child there and she is in victim mode and gets sympathy from your son.

Please just love that grandbaby for now. It's good she has loving adults in her life.

[Mickey47]

Notwendy

Yes I know it drives me crazy! But I’m only going to focus on my grand daughter, daughter, my sister and my husband. We’ll have our grand daughter in our lives regardless of our son. He is the one who will regret it one day. I’m on good terms with baby mama and I know I will have my grand daughter in our lives. Hopefully once he sees everyone still living their lives and having our grand daughter around regardless of him. Maybe he’ll snap out of it see what he is missing out on. I just pray that’s what happens before she gets old enough to understand what’s going on.

[Panda39]

Hi Mickey,

I know the situation sucks and you're angry... .frustrated and I don't blame you.  I arrived here much the same, probably worse I let my anger towards my SO's uBPDxw grow to toxic levels.

But I want to share a couple of things, one is that we only control one person in this world and that is ourselves.  We can not make someone else feel, believe, or do something they don't want to do.

I also want to share some information on "Radical Acceptance" for me things got better once I finally worked my way to Radical Acceptance.

More on Radical Acceptance... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I knew I arrived at Radical Acceptance the day my SO's uBPDxw called about a missed plane flight.

She, and both daughter's flew out East to drop off D(then)18 off at College.  My SO allowed their younger D(then)14 to go on his time, with the understanding her mother would have her back by Sunday because she had school on Monday.

Sunday afternoon the ex calls and says they missed their plane due to traffic... .apparently it is absolute gridlock in Burlington Vermont on a Sunday 
Up to this point my first reaction would have been anger because she didn't do what she said she was going to do (and anger was my knee jerk reaction), then maybe fear (was she kidnapping D14?), then concern (D14 would miss school). 

There were a million reasons we could have gotten upset, and we could have upped the drama, and vented our anger.  But what does that accomplish?  Does it change the fact that they missed the plane, that D14 was going to miss school, that mom is irresponsible? No.  So my SO just said to send him the new itinerary when she made new arrangements and we went back to eating lunch.

What I'm getting at is that you getting angry is only hurting you, upsetting you and will not change what your son and DIL do... .they are adults and are going to do what they are going to do.  You may disagree with what they do and that can be uncomfortable... .Radical Acceptance is about getting comfortable with being uncomfortable... .with accepting what is even when you don't like it.

And to circle back around... .you control what you do. So you control when you see your granddaughter so like what Notwendy said be that loving Grandma in your Granddaughter's life. 

The relationship between your son and his daughter is between them and yes there may be consequences to his actions but they will be his to own.  You have the relationship you have with your granddaughter and that is between the two of you.

Panda39

[Mickey47]

Panda you are so right! You Notwendy and Kw have helped me a lot to understand things about the world of BPD and I’ve been doing a lot of thinking since last night. I can’t afford to get all upset and twisted into knots anymore. I have a lot of health issues myself and this anger is not helping matters with my heart and BP. I’m just going to focus on my granddaughter, my daughter, my sister and my husband from now on out. I love my son and that’ll never ever change, but I don’t understand or like what he is doing to his daughter.

 I’ll always be here for my son to come talk to if he ever does that again. I will have my granddaughter in our lives. I’ll make sure she knows she’s loved dearly! She always asks about her daddy and then she’ll cry a little because she misses him so much. So those times will be hard on me, but I’ll just have to breathe and keep moving forward with my life.

Now I have a question about communication with my son. He will not text me or call me. He calls and talks to his dad, but not me. Should I continue to text little notes about loving him or just stop doing that altogether? Because he has told me before that  he never got that text or poem. I’d call and leave a voicemail and he’d say he never got it. He blames it on his phone messing up

[Notwendy]

I wouldn't stop communication with your son, but it may be better to slow it down- not text as often or call as often. I'd be willing to bet his wife is behind him not speaking to you. I think it is great that he speaks to his father.

Does he have a workplace? I would bet anything you send to the house, she would get a hold of first. If he does, you can send a birthday card, Christmas card, and occasional texts just to let him know you are thinking of him. Keep it light. Contact him without any expectations. He will see it but he may not be able to respond. This is a common thing. If you read the relationship boards, many partners of pwBPD have been not allowed to be in contact with their families. They know it is wrong and they are sad about it ,but they go along with it to keep the peace.

Also consider that everything you send to him or say to him, he will repeat to her. My mother listened in on my calls to my father and read the e mails I sent him. They shared one email account. Anyone who contacted him at his e mail, he also read the e mails. Don't try to speak to him about his wife at all one on one. This will be potential triangulation and he might tell her anything you say.

I think this is horrible to cut off contact with a parent, sibling or child. I think it is a really sad consequence of these relationships. I hope and pray your son comes to his senses one day and reconnects.

[Panda39]

I’ll always be here for my son to come talk to if he ever does that again. I will have my granddaughter in our lives. I’ll make sure she knows she’s loved dearly! She always asks about her daddy and then she’ll cry a little because she misses him so much. So those times will be hard on me, but I’ll just have to breathe and keep moving forward with my life.

You might want to post about supporting your granddaughter over on the co-parenting board, they have tools over there that you might find helpful.  

Now I have a question about communication with my son. He will not text me or call me. He calls and talks to his dad, but not me. Should I continue to text little notes about loving him or just stop doing that altogether? Because he has told me before that  he never got that text or poem. I’d call and leave a voicemail and he’d say he never got it. He blames it on his phone messing up

Two thoughts on the missing messages, does his wife have access to his phone? Do you think he is denying the messages to avoid an interaction with you?

In terms of whether you continue to send texts I think that is up to you, does it make you feel better to send them?  If so I would continue.  Do you feel they let your son know the door is open so to speak?  If so I would continue.  I would do it for those reasons and have no expectations surrounding your contact with him, accept that he is going to do what he is going to do.

Panda39

Notwendy and I cross posted, I agree with her regarding a lack of privacy.

[Mickey47]

Notwendy and Panda

Yes his wife deleted my messages, emails, phone calls. It’s ridiculous someone’s phone isn’t messing up that bad.

BUT GUESS WHAT HE CALLED ME    he was on his way to work and out of the blue my phone started ringing his ring tone I was in shock. I answered he said he was calling to wish me a Happy Thanksgiving! He talked about his daughter and how he’d been in contact with his baby mama about their daughter. He said next weekend he will be going to get her because he misses her. He said he was sorry for not being able to come and missed us. We talked for 12 mins and he did most of the talking. I was so happy to hear his voice and it made me realize he does love and miss us.

He knows he should be with his family and I know his conscious got the best of him. He also called his dad and wished him Happy Thanksgiving and chatted a bit. My husband took his mom out so he wasn’t home. We called each other and were talking about it. We both agree and know for a fact his wife is definitely keeping him from calling. But when he is on his way to work is when he chooses to call. My husband agrees with y’all that it’s because he is free to talk.

He can also delete that he called or text so more than likely that’s what he does so he doesn’t have to tell her anything. I was just so happy he called all on his own. I get very emotional when I haven’t heard from him. I’m just not use to that our son had always been around the family and never missed a Thanksgiving or anything. But since he has been with her he missed Mother’s Day I didn’t even get a call.

He missed Father’s Day but he did call his. No show for Halloween and no show for Thanksgiving. He has never ever done that before. So maybe him calling for Thanksgiving maybe he is starting to open his eyes.

I just want to tell y’all thank you for always being here to talk to and help me understand and keep me calm. Very thankful for you Notwendy, Panda, Harri and KW

[Notwendy]

I am glad he called you.

I agree that when he is with his wife, or she is in earshot, he is not likely to call. The times he is most comfortable calling will be when he is able to do it alone and also delete the call from his phone if necessary. It may be that she won't let him call, or when he does- she listens to the conversation and gets triggered by it, or he's just uncomfortable talking when she is listening. Hard to know - but it is probably easier to call when he can speak alone.

I would advise resisting any urge to talk about her to him, other than in general and in the positive " how is ___" I hope she is doing well- tell her Happy Thanksgiving from us".  As far as she is concerned, act clueless to her issues when you speak about her. I'd assume anything you say about her will get back to her at some point. This kind of triangulation still happens in my family. I have an enmeshed sibling and I know anything I say is reported back to my BPD mother.

For me, it helps to assume that the pwBPD is in "victim" position and can have a relationship with more than one "rescuer" ( not all of the relationships are romantic ). My mother does this with some of her family and friends as well. If they tell me about her, or ask about her, I keep things light and positive.  I don't want to step on to that triangle with them.

For most of their years, my parents didn't have cell phones. They mainly used their house phone. When I called home, if my father answered, my mother would pick up the extension. Sometimes he would hang up abruptly when she did , or keep talking but we both knew she was listening. Then there were times when I called and she wasn't home and I could speak to him one on one - and it was nice to have that chance. I'm glad your son called and you could have that time on the phone with him.

[Mickey47]

Thank you Notwendy

Yes it was nice to just hear his voice and talk to him. I’ve always had like a sixth sense when it comes to my kids. I know he misses all of us and he feels bad for not coming around. I know that’s why he called, because he knows how much Thanksgiving and family means to us and he hasn’t forgotten the way he was raised. He misses the fellowship of family, because he has had it all his life. I know your right about when he calls he is always on his way to work. Even when he calls his dad he is on his way to work. I did tell him I hoped she felt better and was glad it wasn’t a appendicitis.

I did send a Happy Thanksgiving little picture of an owl saying it and said to the both of you. So I did include her and all of that. I did however tell him to be careful of the herbs he takes in, because sometimes our bodies reject things or you could be allergic to it. She was giving him a tea when he wasn’t feeling well and he said he’d feel better for a minute, but then he’d start having pain in his stomach again. She always drills into his head he is a carrier of germs and sickness, because he is around a lot of people at work. I reminded him that he has always been the type NOT to get sick and has always had a high immunity.

My mother used to tell me “if you plant a seed it will grow and mature” so I try to do that every time I talk to him remind him of something positive about himself “plant a seed.” He said he was really hoping that by next weekend everything would be out of her system and nothing residual remained in either of them so his daughter could come around. That’s what she puts in his head that if their sick well his daughter shouldn’t come around for weeks. Because something residual could still be in them to make the child sick.

Everyone I’ve told that to my close friends that know. They have kids too and they said it’s ridiculous and insane, because kids are resilient and by time their the age of my granddaughter their immune systems are built up. Which I know that because I was a Pre-K teacher for 10 yrs and I know that. It’s just another way keep his daughter away. I know if she keeps finding things to keep her away he is going to call her on her BS and then things will get ugly. I know down deep he won’t be able to handle staying away from all of us and his daughter for a long period of time. The longest he has gone is 3 weeks.

[Notwendy]

My mother frequently uses "illness" as an excuse or explanation for avoiding situations that makes her uncomfortable. It makes it difficult to know how to react as we don't know what is real and what isn't.  I have read that for a pwBPD, feelings =fact and so the strange "theories" your DIL comes up with may be her fears feeling real to her.

What I have come to observe about my mother is that she is uncomfortable with anyone who she thinks may realize something is going on with her, or she fears they do. She tends to paint them black and avoid them. She is also very sensitive to any comment she takes as possible criticism. Even giving her advice feels invalidating to her. She can hold it together in public and with acquaintances. She has completely charmed her neighbors and some of her friends. These are the people she is most comfortable with. If she is feeling uncomfortable, that is when she would use the "illness" as a way to avoid a social situation. My mother also has issues with people who are close to my father but not her, feeling they are not on her side- these are my father's family and also me- as I was her "black child".  I imagine these people feel threatening to her.

Plans and commitments are unstable as she can "feel ill" at any time, even the last minute unless it is something she is highly motivated to do or attend. I think it is great that your son plans to see his daughter next weekend, but from the patterns I am familiar with, I also would be aware that his wife can change her mind.

I agree with you that your son sees through this and knows what is the right thing to do with contact with his family. I knew my father knew better too and sometimes he would tell me he did. But in the moment, if my mother was distressed over something, he would go along with her wishes, to keep the peace.  I can see why he did it. Saying "no" to her is very difficult. I have done it now, as an adult, and her reaction is very tough to deal with. I recognize that as hard as it is to do this when I don't live with her, he did live with her and keeping boundaries had to be a challenge.

[Mickey47]

Yeah I know she will probably come up with something next weekend as to the reason for him not to go get his daughter. I do know that eventually my son will get sick of her excuses. Because he knows eventually it’ll cause issues with us and his baby mama. So it could be a legal mater after a while, because he isn’t making an effort to see his daughter. The baby mama wants him in his daughter’s life.

They do not have any children and my son doesn’t want any children that’s what he has told us. He did say maybe years from now, but not now for sure. He said his daughter is enough. I think he knows that having a child with her would be hell and that child would suffer. All this will come to a head eventually and he’ll want to be with someone he can share his life and family with. He has always been that type of person and sure there has been times where he was distant, but he was a teenager.

Like I said before he will stay away only so long. Then he pops up and hangs out. We are a very close family and we are always here for each other. He has been brought up in a very loving home and knows we are always here and love him dearly.

I’m sorry you went through what you did with your mom and dad. That’s got to be so hard especially when you were younger and didn’t understand. Thankfully you didn’t develop this awful disorder. Your blessing was your dads side of the family and of need be that will be my granddaughters blessing. I pray it doesn’t turn out that way, but I know it’s going to be a while before he opens his eyes. I just pray my granddaughter isn’t old enough to start to understand, because I don’t ever want her to wonder if her daddy loves her or not.

[Notwendy]

I hope for all that your son takes a stand for his daughter and his family.

Yes, my father's family was a blessing and continues to be. I am still close to my cousins on that side and our children- the next generation of cousins-  really like each other.

Your grand daughter is blessed to have some loving family members, including you. Yes, it is hurtful to have a father with a BPD wife who intervenes with that relationship, but that doesn't undo the blessing of loving relatives.

[Mickey47]

Thank you for that and I’m so glad you had your dads side of the family to give you what you needed especially when you were young and in the teen years. I just pray my granddaughter does have her daddy, before she grows up to understand he isn’t around and why. I pray he sees the excuses as a way to keep his daughter away and him away from all of us. She convinces him because she’s sick he can’t be around any of us, because he is probably carrying whatever she has and can make us very sick. It’s unreal what he believes from her. It’s like he has lost his own brain and can’t figure crap out. It drives me nuts.

So I have to keep taking deep breathes and telling myself he’ll eventually see or stop ignoring the truth.

[Notwendy]

I too hope and pray he gets tired of the irrational thinking.

[Mickey47]

Thank you I’ll keep up updated!