Casual intimacy?

[rumblelina]

I don't know how to word it, but I haven't seen references to this despite using the search function, forgive me if this has been addressed.

What my pwBPD does is, form very close online relationships with people of their own gender (just friendships) whom they can be emotionally intimate with until they become bored and find a new one. They do not exhibit this type of closeness with anyone in 'real life'.*

They also engage in casual sex but only if there is no 'meaning' behind it, they need to be drunk to do it and would "never want a new relationship".

Is this the fear of intimacy? I can see how it would be on the casual sex and not wanting relationships area, but I do not understand how she can form close bonds over and over?


*I am not 'real life' so to speak, and despite numerous requests on their end to be, any superhuman attempt that I have made ends badly, so I do get to be very emotionally close, then ditched, then back, while most of the others do only one round (we are not in a relationship, we are friends with romantic tints and always have been, all other friendships have not been romantic and there's been no recycling and no actually um cruel fallouts).

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Does this person constantly seek validation and sense of worth?

Could this just be another form of that?

Would you say they are insecure and needy by nature?

Could these people simply be vehicles to meet this need, hence the individuals themselves are disposable?

What do you think is driving this?

I am sure many members have experienced this and can provide some insights into this behavior

[123Phoebe]

*I am not 'real life' so to speak, and despite numerous requests on their end to be, any superhuman attempt that I have made ends badly, so I do get to be very emotionally close, then ditched, then back, while most of the others do only one round (we are not in a relationship, we are friends with romantic tints and always have been, all other friendships have not been romantic and there's been no recycling and no actually um cruel fallouts).

Hi rumblelina

Sorry to hear you've been dealing with the push-pull behaviors.  It must feel pretty confusing.  I'm not sure what you mean about not being 'real life'?  Would you mind clarifying this?  Thanks

[waverider]

Is this an online only friendship?

[sadeyes]

My pwBPD forms lots of friendships online where he seems to use an 'inflated persona' as well as inflated stories of past events. I think it allows him to pop in and out and maintain total control. I have noticed that many of these friendships are go go go talking (online) all the time, and then just as quickly as the friendship started he no longer talks that person anymore.

[rumblelina]

Yes, mostly, we met online but we have met in person a few times. I have travelled to see them (they can't travel to me as they are afraid of flying and while they would travel to other countries for other people they would not pick me up at the metro station two blocks away heh) and it has gone (once at least) horribly wrong, but we talk a lot every day on a variety of levels.

Please don't dismiss it because it's just online, I know a lot of people think that online interaction is not real (and when it's random people I could agree) but the pain and joy that this person has brought to me is very real.

I have a good support system in real life, and I have other people I have met online and later on have met in person and I never had a problem before, however, we met as part of a fan community so a lot of people (whom also used to call themselves my friends and knew us both) who knew I was heartbroken when it happened were eager to tell me 'people say a lot of hit online' and that online relationships (of any kind) are not real to invalidate my hurt over the way things turned out when we first met.

So please, please don't do that. It's been two years since that happened and I still start shivering and often crying when I think about it  it was absolutely horrific

Now the questions:

Does this person constantly seek validation and sense of worth?

Yes, they were a very overachieving child and her family was very strict so her worth was always linked to her academic achievements and now it's more difficult to prove to their family in a working environment. They will often pursue positions that sound better even if they'll enjoy them less, won't pay as well or will give they less holidays/benefits.

Could this just be another form of that?

It is likely, they said once (while making a point about our relationship being meaningless) that they need people who think they are awesome and it's not just the ghost of past feelings.

Would you say they are insecure and needy by nature?

They will deny it intensely but insecure yes, needy not so much because they repress it a lot, they hate themselves for needing things/people so they don't act on it, they can be very in control on certain aspects.

Could these people simply be vehicles to meet this need, hence the individuals themselves are disposable?

It is likely, they like smart people they can discuss superficial subjects with and that they impress with their research skills or things like that. Then they like to display their new friendship all over social networks and bask in people talking about it. A few months ago I got yelled at because they currently do not have such a friendship, it happened a few days after I'd been told I was the only person (online or otherwise) they talked to everyday. Needless to say, our friendship is not broadcasted to anyone, since the horrible falling out when we first met (after a few months, and after their eventual apology) we do not talk to each other in public at all, only privately through a shared blog, instant messaging and occasionally the phone when they feel like it.*

What do you think is driving this?

They once told me that they like to hang out with 'bad people' because they can know that they are better than them, and that's more fun than hanging out with me because I make them want to be a better person which is scary and hard work   


*This is an expansion on the whole 'why we talk privately' thing - it came as a result of our original fallout little over two years ago when we met in person for the first time. They have apologized profusely over it but they're terrified that if we talk in public 'everyone' will hate them because they'll realize that what they told all our mutuals was not true and instead what I said had happened was the truth. So 'it is awful because they are thinking all this stuff about you, but at the same I can't let them know that because SOMEONE has proved that they like ME' (because some people took their side IMMEDIATELY because naturally what happened was SO ridiculous that I was surely lying to get attention), and instead I have to appear like a potential rapist. I don't care what they think, most of these people are awful anyway so their opinions are worthless, but it does hurt that they care more about them (people they have even criticized cruelly a lot, who truly despise or have always found boring) than about me.

I am very embarrassed about all of this, I apologize.

My pwBPD forms lots of friendships online where he seems to use an 'inflated persona' as well as inflated stories of past events. I think it allows him to pop in and out and maintain total control. I have noticed that many of these friendships are go go go talking (online) all the time, and then just as quickly as the friendship started he no longer talks that person anymore.

That makes a lot of sense sadeyes, thank you!

[rumblelina]

i'm sorry about the swearword! it was a direct quote and i wasn't thinking! make it 'people say a lot of nonsense online' then, like nobody means what they say online  I can't edit the post heh

[waverider]

This is an online forum so we wont be throwing any stones when it comes to online friendships. it is as good a place to people as anywhere.

Online though does give a pwBPD more freedom to color things though, more than most. The distance allows us to open up more and be less guarded at times so it works both ways.

Dont be embarressed about ending up in a complex web of facades, we all end up like this. It is often the trigger that brings us here. I guess simplifying your life so that you can live as open and honestly as possible is a good place to start.

[rumblelina]

Thank you, most of the people who dismissed me were online friends too which is why I am so guarded. They said this stuff as we talked in person about me meeting pwBPD in person too.

All my friends (not mutuals) do know we still talk, except for one who I know would be severely distressed by worry and who has enough on their plate. So in a way, people that matter know and I am not lying, it's just that her handbrake is saying our friendship has never mattered/been real/I am replaceable, which is the single most hurtful thing a person can say to me due to my background and not only have they said tthat frequently, they have also presented that picture to others (and changed tune eventually). It hurts me that people would be right in thinking I'm lying about us talking because there is no visible proof, that she could deny it. I have severe trauma with not being believed, so that's something which upsets me when I think about it.

I mostly wanted to understand the mechanics behind her serial friendships (of which I guess I am an abnormal result) and answering the questions was very helpful, thank you so much   I had been sad about this since llike july

[Mono No Aware]

Hi Rumbelina,

This a fascinating complex web you are in. Layers of tangles of feels upon feels.

I have severe trauma with not being believed, so that's something which upsets me when I think about it.

Here on the Staying And Improving section of this absolute gold-mine of a forum, we are always reminding each other (among other things) to "Take care of yourself." We have found out the hard ways that if we let our self-care slide we soon lose the ability to other-care effectively.

You are smart and self-aware enough to know your own upsetting-trigger, not being believed, and you are painfully aware that once aspect of The Situation is unfortunately... .not being believed.

So, it may be a valuable step to get yourself into therapy. I myself am trying to figure out how to do this.

At the very least, don't compromise on your IRL hobbies, activities, and especially friendly shoulders to cry on and laugh with.

I mostly wanted to understand the mechanics behind her serial friendships (of which I guess I am an abnormal result) and answering the questions was very helpful, thank you so much   I had been sad about this since llike july

If she is strongly BPD, she will exhibit behavior patterns like Push-Pull and Recycling, and leave a trail of discarded r/s (relationships) behind of those who didn't put up with them. You are abnormal because you've taken the abuse and withstood being recycled, which are signs both of love in your heart and strength to stick with it.

Online r/s are fascinating due to the warping and magnifying they have of normal IRL human interaction. No body language, no intonation of speech, and no facial expressions - but unfortunately those three things are quite literally 90% of human IRL communication. Don't believe me, take a class on making speeches to groups. It's proven. (insert plaintive eyebrows raise, smile-with-hurt-behind it, and firm eye contact from me) So using printed text that doesn't even have the subtle flavorings of someone's handwriting makes it such a greater challenge to communicate effectively... .but at the same time makes it quite easy to:

1) Send communications to a person that are mirroring the other person's stated feelings and cares. Mirroring is an emotional activity that the pwBPD engages in during the initial stages of a new r/s, when they mold themselves to be 'perfect' for their new friend or lover in desperate bid for ALL that person's attention. I think of it as the Clingy Stage. FYI, I write 'desperate' but it's only natural to them and does not feel as such, but to the observer who has suffered through the latter stages the desperation becomes apparent.

2) Misinterpret communications from the other person, and not randomly but in a painfully predictable pattern of Subtle and Increasing Negativity. Search this forum for keyword 'Facebook' and you'll get a slew of results of the bull-defecation that we Nons endure. The Push-Pull pattern of BPD is actually Pull-then-Push where once the pwBPD pulls someone close to them, demanding ALL their attention and love in a desperate bid to fill their black hole of un-met childhood needs, then suddenly their deep-seated Fear of Abandonment kicks in and the person of their interest becomes threatening to them - the unspoken threat of abandoning them. So their emotional reaction is to Push away the threat, but lacking any concrete evidence of this (wholly imagined and quite opposite of reality) danger... .their minds fabricate it. They take something like three smiley emoticons as jeering, they take not replying within an hour as cutting off, they take pleas of love as poisonous lies. They Paint us Black.

So to sum, the mechanics of your pwBPD's serial online r/s may very well be classic BPD.

I encourage you to read The Lessons, but as far as adapting them to online r/s... .well keep us posted.

- Mono No Aware

[waverider]

1) Send communications to a person that are mirroring the other person's stated feelings and cares. Mirroring is an emotional activity that the pwBPD engages in during the initial stages of a new r/s, when they mold themselves to be 'perfect' for their new friend or lover in desperate bid for ALL that person's attention. I think of it as the Clingy Stage. FYI, I write 'desperate' but it's only natural to them and does not feel as such, but to the observer who has suffered through the latter stages the desperation becomes apparent.

2) Misinterpret communications from the other person, and not randomly but in a painfully predictable pattern of Subtle and Increasing Negativity. Search this forum for keyword 'Facebook' and you'll get a slew of results of the bull-defecation that we Nons endure. The Push-Pull pattern of BPD is actually Pull-then-Push where once the pwBPD pulls someone close to them, demanding ALL their attention and love in a desperate bid to fill their black hole of un-met childhood needs, then suddenly their deep-seated Fear of Abandonment kicks in and the person of their interest becomes threatening to them - the unspoken threat of abandoning them. So their emotional reaction is to Push away the threat, but lacking any concrete evidence of this (wholly imagined and quite opposite of reality) danger... .their minds fabricate it. They take something like three smiley emoticons as jeering, they take not replying within an hour as cutting off, they take pleas of love as poisonous lies. They Paint us Black.

So to sum, the mechanics of your pwBPD's serial online r/s may very well be classic BPD.

I encourage you to read The Lessons, but as far as adapting them to online r/s... .well keep us posted.

- Mono No Aware

These are very good points. it is not just online but anything that is not face to face. My partner is old school and can't use a computer but will effectively do the same on the phone. she used to work in phone sales and cold sell snow to the Eskimos by the use of mirroring. Within only a few seconds of being on the phone to a complete stranger it sounded like she knew them her whole life. Totally disarming. Then immediately after that call she would be in a completely different character with a different stranger. She does it without thinking. It was definitely BPD at work, as she didn't feel like she was faking, she wanted to be liked.

She does the same with everyone not just just part of a job. friends and family. Yet extended or personal contact rings all sorts of bells and misinterpretations leading to abandonment. This makes her want to "assimilate" with people on the phone, as the distance of a phone line is her safety blanket.

An example of this is she is obsessed with calling her mum everyday, but she cant stand being in her company for more than hour at a time, and even that is strained. Their personalities are like chalk and cheese and it causes enormous stress full of misinterpretations and lack of real empathy. The phone relationship is a fake relationship to replace the one she can't have in real life. Its not deliberate manipulation it is just genuine escapism and real to them.

[Mono No Aware]

Its not deliberate manipulation it is just genuine escapism and real to them.

Waverider, thank you for this. We need to all remind ourselves that our pwBPD are not intentionally hurting us, even when they seem to be intentionally hurting us.