He still refuses to let go

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I had hoped I wouldn't need to post again, but here I am.  My ex (UBPD) still continues to text/email every day.  I ended the relationship three months ago and he refuses to let me go.  I am practicing LC with him.  We have a three year old son, so I can't stop all contact but keep it limited to our child only.  The amount of messages that he sends are slowly decreasing, but they are just as intense as they were when I first ended the relationship.  For those of you who have read my previous posts, he has tried to say everything imaginable to get me to respond.  Tells me he thinks he has cancer, that he may start drinking again (he is also recovering alcoholic), says that he is going to get in his car and disappear and has hinted at suicide many times.  He knows that if I receive a direct threat I will immediately call the police, so he just hints at it now.  Tonight he has sent me five messages.  Basically saying that he is going to empty his entire savings to buy his 15 year old daughter a car tomorrow (this is pretty consistent with his past behavior of being very financially impulsive), that his mom is going in for surgery and that he can't believe how deeply I would hurt him and abandon him like this.  He ended by saying that he is tired of feeling this way, doesn't deserve it and then said he really hopes I am ready for what he is going to do.  Of course with his previous suicide threats, my mind immediately goes to that.  My question is, is this just more FOG?  Should I continue to ignore this?  I have reached out to his parents and best friend in the past.  They all just tell me to go back to him and everything will be ok.  But I can't go back because this whole relationship was toxic and abusive.  I just want him to move on.  All the stories I read on here seem to say the person with BPD will suddenly detach and quickly move on to someone else.  This is not happening with me.  Just the opposite.  He keeps trying to hold on tighter.  Guess I just need some encouragement today.

[razemarie]

I had hoped I wouldn't need to post again, but here I am.  My ex (UBPD) still continues to text/email every day.  I ended the relationship three months ago and he refuses to let me go.  I am practicing LC with him.  We have a three year old son, so I can't stop all contact but keep it limited to our child only.  The amount of messages that he sends are slowly decreasing, but they are just as intense as they were when I first ended the relationship.  For those of you who have read my previous posts, he has tried to say everything imaginable to get me to respond.  Tells me he thinks he has cancer, that he may start drinking again (he is also recovering alcoholic), says that he is going to get in his car and disappear and has hinted at suicide many times.  He knows that if I receive a direct threat I will immediately call the police, so he just hints at it now.  Tonight he has sent me five messages.  Basically saying that he is going to empty his entire savings to buy his 15 year old daughter a car tomorrow (this is pretty consistent with his past behavior of being very financially impulsive), that his mom is going in for surgery and that he can't believe how deeply I would hurt him and abandon him like this.  He ended by saying that he is tired of feeling this way, doesn't deserve it and then said he really hopes I am ready for what he is going to do.  Of course with his previous suicide threats, my mind immediately goes to that.  My question is, is this just more FOG?  Should I continue to ignore this?  I have reached out to his parents and best friend in the past.  They all just tell me to go back to him and everything will be ok.  But I can't go back because this whole relationship was toxic and abusive.  I just want him to move on.  All the stories I read on here seem to say the person with BPD will suddenly detach and quickly move on to someone else.  This is not happening with me.  Just the opposite.  He keeps trying to hold on tighter.  Guess I just need some encouragement today.

[Red Sky]

Razemarie, I'm not sure what to advise you to do. But my best wishes to you and to your son. It sounds like you have detached from him and you aren't recycling the relationship, which is good, so I hope that with time and distance it will settle down.

Remember that if he is threatening suicide to try and get you back, that this (or other threats) count as abusive behaviour. My argument would normally be that you have left and it is no longer your responsibility to sort out or respond to such things but I understand that you are trying to keep your son's dad in his life. There may be someone on one of the L5 boardswho has experience with co-parenting after a split.

[razemarie]

Thank you.  My hope is that he will eventually stop with these messages but it's been extremely stressful.

[BorisAcusio]

Thank you.  My hope is that he will eventually stop with these messages but it's been extremely stressful.

He will continue to do this until he finds a new attachement. I can imagine that certain male BPDs have much harder time when it's coming to finding a new replacement/rescuer.

[seeking balance]

Razemarie,

Sorry you are having a tough time - coparenting does mean you cannot go NC.  LC can be downright exhausting.

Have you set an actual boundary and followed through with it regarding his texts?

Share with us what that looks like?  Before we can give any help, it is good to get a picture of where you have been.

Peace,

SB

[razemarie]

Yes, I have explained to him several times that I will only respond to emails/texts that have to do with our son.  I am done rehashing the relationship between the two of us.  We were together for eight years.  Engaged to be married at one point.  We have a child together and he has two from a previous marriage that I am close with.  I could fill pages with all that has happened over the years.  But to quickly sum it up, I moved out of the home I shared with him when our son was two months old.  Since that time we have recycled twice and gone to counseling.  It was a very turbulent time.  He is a recovering alcoholic that has been sober for one year to date.  Prior to that I did not know if the addiction was causing this behavior or if it was something more.  Now I know.  He continued to blame all of his problems on me and I realized that I could not have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person who is not committed to changing.  So I officially ended it three months ago and went LC.  I have always had an open door in regards to his visitation time with our son.  He has chosen to have him every other Friday and Saturday night and has only ventured outside of that arrangement once (this past weekend actually).  To be honest I think he did that so that he could see me and try to engage in a discussion.  Up until the past two weeks, I was getting an average of 20 frantic texts per day begging me to come back, blaming me, promising changes, confessing his undying love, etc.  The amount of messages per day is now to 5-8 per day.  So there is some progress.  I am aware of one time after his divorce where he tried to commit suicide.  He has threatened it quite a few times over the years when we would have problems and in the past it kept me enmeshed in the relationship.  Now I no longer respond.  When I first began LC I made it clear that if I got another direct suicide threat I would contact the police.   So he just hints at it now and denies it if anyone questions him about it.  I know that it is a way to try and control me, but I am worried he will follow through.

[seeking balance]

Yes, I have explained to him several times that I will only respond to emails/texts that have to do with our son. 

A boundary means you stop responding to other things - are you totally stopped engaging with other issues?

Up until the past two weeks, I was getting an average of 20 frantic texts per day begging me to come back, blaming me, promising changes, confessing his undying love, etc.  The amount of messages per day is now to 5-8 per day.  So there is some progress. 

specifically, what do you do when you receive these texts?

I am aware of one time after his divorce where he tried to commit suicide.  He has threatened it quite a few times over the years when we would have problems and in the past it kept me enmeshed in the relationship.  Now I no longer respond.  When I first began LC I made it clear that if I got another direct suicide threat I would contact the police.   So he just hints at it now and denies it if anyone questions him about it.  I know that it is a way to try and control me, but I am worried he will follow through.

Have you told him hints will be treated as a threat from now on?  Put a more firm boundary around that?

Suicide threats are stressful, I know that too.  There is a point where if that gets the response, it is used for attention and then there is that reality that sometimes these things are acted upon in a moment of haste... . err on the side of 911 is what is recommended.

[razemarie]

I have not responded to any other issues or messages he has sent.  Not once.  I have used the support of this board to learn how to sift through his messages to see if there is anything that I need to respond to.  If not, I don't.  All of the texts and emails he has sent me (along with any I have sent to him) are being saved in a folder in case they are needed in the future.  I have not set up boundaries around hints of suicide.  Perhaps that is my next step.  How should I word that?

[seeking balance]

I have not responded to any other issues or messages he has sent.  Not once.  I have used the support of this board to learn how to sift through his messages to see if there is anything that I need to respond to.  If not, I don't.  All of the texts and emails he has sent me (along with any I have sent to him) are being saved in a folder in case they are needed in the future. 

good deal - just wanted to see if you were being consistent... . that is hard at first.

What is the actual legal status of your child - is it documented with the courts yet?

I have not set up boundaries around hints of suicide.  Perhaps that is my next step.  How should I word that?

Directly, the next time he does it - perhaps post about it here and get some feedback specific to it.  The thing is, a hint is a hint - so theoretically, you should plan to call as much as that really does suck. 

You are doing a good job - honestly.  Nothing is easy about this and some days we need support, you reached out and that is super healthy of you. 

Eventually, he will tire of not getting a response and he will move on - we are here for you.   

[razemarie]

I have my son about 95% of the time.  When my ex was still drinking, he cared more about that than being a Dad.  He chose to stay away because he could not stay sober long enough to care for him.  Now that he is sober I have encouraged him to take a more active role, but thus far he has not.  He lives about 15 minutes from us, so location is not the issue.  We do not have a court agreement.  He used to flip out and try to make my life hell when I used to suggest it.  He pays me a weekly amount that is not much, but enough to help me get by.  I honestly do not think going to court would be in my best interest at this time.  Once he has moved on, I would be more than willing.  But for now, I have too much on my plate as it is. 

[razemarie]

I sent a response letting him know that future "hints" at suicide will result in a call to the police.  I also reiterated that I will not respond to messages unless they involve our son.  I have little faith that this will stop anything.

[InSearchofMe]

This isn't my board but I have a thought on this.  Do you read his messages as they come in?  As long as your son is with you, even if he is contacting you about your son, it can wait.  Have you thought about having a set time once a day to read his messages and sort them out?  Doing that might help you detach a bit and define a boundary regarding how much of your time, worry and effort you are willing to give him each day. 

[razemarie]

Thank you all for your input.  I think that is a key point that you bring up.  Yes, I do usually set specific times to read his messages and respond if necessary.  Most days I leave my cell out in the car so that it doesn't impact me at work.  I honestly wish I could just delete them sometimes, but often times they do have to do with our child, so I can't.  But I do not want to reward his behavior with an instant response like I used to in the past.  All of the things he is doing now, used to get an instant response from me.  I was trapped in the FOG for years.  I'm hoping this is just an adjustment period for him and once he realizes that I am not going back to my old ways, he will start to respect the boundaries.  I still care for him and think that I always will.  After all he is my son's father.  But I'm learning to care from a distance.  Where it's healthier for me and ultimately my son.  As we speak he is sending me emails saying that he is freaking out about all of this, needs me in his life and needs me to come back so he can show me. 

[seeking balance]

I sent a response letting him know that future "hints" at suicide will result in a call to the police.  I also reiterated that I will not respond to messages unless they involve our son.  I have little faith that this will stop anything.

It may stop the suicide hints or you may have to call police - either way, a change is occurring.

I understand you do not want legal involvement, it can be a bit of a nightmare as everyone on the legal board will tell you.  Unfortunately, if you need more safe guards for yourself, it is better to be proactive than reactive.

Hang in there,

SB

[razemarie]

Thank you.  I am trying to prepare myself in case it comes to the point of needing legal action.  Hence, me saving all of his texts and email messages.  As well as mine to show a pattern of stating my boundaries and my encouragement of him being involved with our son.  I think at some point it will probably happen. I am just hoping not for a while.  It would be great if we could avoid it.  But that will depend on his behavior.

[intoashell]

Hi razemarie,

Just wanted to chip in with some support   as I too am in a similar position (albeit on a slightly quieter spell). I really feel how exhausting it is and for me I really had to do something with the text msgs.

My therapist and I worked on what I have to absorb and what I don't from him. This has been hard but getting easier. I used to feel sick looking at my phone to see the no. of msgs and kept getting stuck applying reason to the unreasonable. I wanted to scream "why don't you get it", but of course whether he does or dosen't isn't within my control. I have prayed for a replacement but realistically that may make no difference anyway. The only thing left is myself and how I deal with his contact.

I also have been working on what is and isn't my responsibility and actually who else my uBPDexbf can contact if he wants/chooses to. I broke my phone last week and I felt such relief for 2 days, like the problem had gone away or it was out of my control. This taught me alot.

Is he still sober?

I admire the fact that you want to do what is best for yourself and your son and I do hope it improves.

[razemarie]

Thank you for your support!  Yes, I believe he is still sober.  There are many red flags when he is drinking and I have not seen them.  But I don't know that for a fact.  He is good at hiding it.  For a little while at least.  With him it quickly spirals out of control when he drinks.  I like how you said you are learning what to absorb and what to ignore.  It's hard to transition to this kind of communication with someone you were in a relationship with.  Someone that you were so attached to.  At least it has been for me.  I have stopped responding to texts and just use email for any responses I send him.  I'm trying to get him to do the same.  But he still uses both texting and emails.  He tries to call as well but I don't answer.

[woodsposse]

 

A quick bit of my back history and maybe it can also help.

My (now) exwife and I were in our r/s for close to 20 years (to be exact it was like 17.5... . with another year tacked on to the end of that before I finally was able to fully emotionally detach).  We co-parented my children from a previous marriage and my kids do see her and refer to her as their mother.  So there is that connection (emotionally, if not by blood).

During the course of our relationship, things fell apart hard!  Especially towards the end.  Yes, I know I have my own issues and some of them I worked on in the past - some of them are "just who I am"... . and some of them were really kicked into high gear because of her behaviors.

It was apparent for a few years leading up to the final split that our marriage was over.  And, it was equally clear how much she had devauled me - to the point of having an (at the very least) emotional affair with someone she "fell in love with"... . so after we split up and she moved out, she ended up getting pregnant with him (I found this out later).

But... . after I threw my hands up, gave up, and let her "walk out the door"... . once she found out I was serious in not running after her (and started dating someone) - she went brutal wicked crazy on me with the cancer scare... . and a few suicide talks, anger, rage (oh she was not happy I was dating someone... . even though, unbeknowst to me she was preganant with dudes baby... . she eventually had a miscarrage... . and then a few months later got pregnant with someone elses babies, now has twins with him).

Her conversation was half I love you and don't want to loose you - and the other half we can never get back together cause I love you but I'm not in love with you - and the other half I want to live the rest of my life with you after we get divorced and I have the babies we can get remarried and lets run away to a different state and take the babies with us and not tell anyone where we are going - and the other half don't talk to me like that because you are with your new girlfriend and I'm pregnant with someone else's babies and I"m happy but don't leave me.

EXHAUSTING!

But... . see... . I allowed all of that to happen.  I was still so connected to her I just couldn't stop it.  A part of me actually wanted it (for whatever reason) - because if I didn't, I wouldn't have answered her call, or wanted to see her, or wanted to talk to her.

I simply could have said "I'm sorry you got a diagnosis of bad medical news.  I hope everything works out. " Or something like that.

I'm not suggesting that you want to have him text you and all of that - but, once you say what you need to say - if he continues, just let it go.  If it isn't about your child, let it go.  If he hints at suicide, let it go. If he threatens he is going to do it - just call the cops - and let it go.

I said all I said about my ex wife to say she was the one who was spirling out of control - but then, of course, turns around and blames me - but she can't leave me alone.  Well... . at least until she found a full on replacement for her emotional outlet.

I was still there and let it happen so I was the receiver of it as I had been for years.

YEs, as she got more into and closer to ahveing her children she slowed down a lot... . and so did I.  I finally went very very LC back in November (hadn't spoken with her in person since then) and went total NC in February (shortly after finding this site).

I wish I had found this site sooner.  Maybe like a few days after she left initially.  Maybe I could have went LC and NC much much sooner and gotten my head on straight and away from all the constant stress.  It really was a very emotionally and stressful time.  Very confusing - very difficult to focus.

Just try to keep you and your child safe. 

[intoashell]

Yeah I understand. I tried to transfer to email but he wasn't prepared to do it. Bit like when I was in the relationship with him, he wouldn't or couldn't listen or respect my wishes . Actually he did initially but it didn't last long.

Most of the communication i get is FOG or abuse or re written history intermingled with the occasional line I have to take note of. I have started to skim read it for suicide threat - to which I will take action. I have come to accept this is what he does. I have found out since he has been like this for years.

I have found it hard to detach (and I am still doing) as I want him to get well, find contentment etc. And nobody wants to be on the receiving end of msgs of such pain, despair and misery, whilst being told you can cure it. When in reality I actually think being in the relationship made things worse for him. Towards the end all he wanted was validation for whatever he thought, said or did. I certainly can't cure it for him.

It is a horrible illness and has left a deep wound.

[razemarie]

Intoashell... . It feels like I could have written what you did word for word.  Are you saying that you have been dealing with this kind of behavior for years?  My heart goes out to you.  You are exactly right, this disorder leaves a very deep wound.

[woodsposse]

 

A deep wound indeed.

The other sad part about it is, as far as I am concerned - when I didn't know what I was dealing with, I thought this was a "normal" part of dynamics between people in relationships.  You know... . like "you just haven't found the right one".

Their issues mixed with my own issues... . oh man... . a perfect storm of wounding all over the place.

Now that I'm a little older, have been through the mill a time or two - and the "anger, bitterness, and hurt" have subsided a bit... . I can see that it was a combination of their illness and whatever I brought to the table... . and I'm not so willing to bring my issues to the table any longer, but rather have worked very hard over the past few years to resolve whatever storms were raging inside of me.

A lot of what I had to do was (simply) let stuff go.

Yes, it has helped a great deal to understand a pwPD and what they can bring to a relationship - but it was even more important for me to realize that regardless of how I felt about them ... . it is okay to let it go (or let them go) - especially if what is brung isn't good for my wellness.

Some of the wounds are still there - but they are not as raw as they were.  And I can keep the chaos away from them so they can heal even more.

[razemarie]

Hello, it's been a while since I posted on this thread.  I had finally thought (hoped) things were dying down with my ex.  He went almost two days without texting, calling or emailing.  By far the longest he has gone in the 8 years I've known him.  Until last night.  Since then I have gotten five texts, three emails and two missed calls.  All begging me to come back and try hang out "as friends."  I did not respond.  But now I found out that he went and picked up our son from daycare this morning after I dropped him off.  To his credit, he did try calling while I was in a meeting.  He has done this sort of thing in the past when he has a "rain day" from work.  I don't mind that he picked him up.  What I do mind is that he is now trying to negotiate time with me in order to get my son back tonight.  He keeps asking me to hang out with him and won't respond to my questions about what time I will get him, where to meet, etc.  How do I get my point across without being dragged into an argument?  As you can imagine I get my hair up when it comes to my child.  I have made a point of NEVER involving our son in our issues and am upset he is resorting to this.  I know I should go to court and make our custody agreement legal and in time I will be doing that.  But right now I need immediate help in how to respond or handle this.  Thank you.

[woodsposse]

Hello, it's been a while since I posted on this thread.  I had finally thought (hoped) things were dying down with my ex.  He went almost two days without texting, calling or emailing.  By far the longest he has gone in the 8 years I've known him.  Until last night.  Since then I have gotten five texts, three emails and two missed calls.  All begging me to come back and try hang out "as friends."  I did not respond.  But now I found out that he went and picked up our son from daycare this morning after I dropped him off.  To his credit, he did try calling while I was in a meeting.  He has done this sort of thing in the past when he has a "rain day" from work.  I don't mind that he picked him up.  What I do mind is that he is now trying to negotiate time with me in order to get my son back tonight.  He keeps asking me to hang out with him and won't respond to my questions about what time I will get him, where to meet, etc.  How do I get my point across without being dragged into an argument?  As you can imagine I get my hair up when it comes to my child.  I have made a point of NEVER involving our son in our issues and am upset he is resorting to this.  I know I should go to court and make our custody agreement legal and in time I will be doing that.  But right now I need immediate help in how to respond or handle this.  Thank you.

My suggestion for the immediate would be to say something to the effect of "we can discuss that after we have solidified what time you are bringing my son back".

My next suggestion would be to go to court and get the custody arrangement.  Without that in place, he has every right to pick up your son from day care whenever he pleases and there isn't anything anyone could do to stop him.  Reading that made the hairs go up on the back of my neck.

I was a complete mess always on edge when my kids were young and I got custody of them.  Just the thought of their bio-mom popping in anytime she pleased with the my kids was enough to send me into a tizzy.  Luckily I was able to keep her at bay because we had the custody papers in place. 

Hope that helps.

[razemarie]

I am on pins and needles myself.  I am getting my ducks in a row before taking him to court for custody.  I want to establish a pattern of me setting boundaries and him blatantly ignoring them.  Also, I have encouraged him to be more involved in our son's life and for the most part he refuses.  I am keeping track of all of that as well.  I definitely agree that it will need to happen in the near future regardless.  Drop-off and pick-up times have been especially stressful because he uses that time to try and confront me, since I refuse to respond to anything that does not involve our son through other measures.  The last time he did it, my three year old son saw.  He got scared and started crying.  I do not want that to happen again.  Up until now I have been able to keep all of this drama away from him.  I am still waiting for a response from my ex about getting my son tonight. 

[razemarie]

Update:  He has finally responded and we have solidified plans to meet at a public location for me to pick up my son after work.  I am very relieved.  My nerves are shot today!

[woodsposse]

Update:  He has finally responded and we have solidified plans to meet at a public location for me to pick up my son after work.  I am very relieved.  My nerves are shot today!

I'm glad that part of this situation seems to be working out. 

Living on pins and needles can have such a negative effect on your mind and body. 

I'm not an attorney or anything, but the custody agreement is going to be crucial for your sanity.  You can have it written in there, if needed, that pickup/drop off times and such could be through a third party.  When I did mine, I made it so she could pick up the kids after school on Friday and then drop them back off to school on Monday... . that way I never had to see her.

But... . she took it upon herself to not see the kids for 10 years - so that's on her!

She sure did play the role leading up to and including court.  Oh it was a huge show!  But, I stuck through it... . got my kids and stayed in the letter of the agreement and didn't budge.  She still tries to blame me for her not having seen the kids in 10 years... . but it doesn't even bother me since I know that wasn't the case.  I just wasn't going to play her games any longer.

Reason I say all of this is... . without the courts involved, they will try and play a lot of games and use the children as a tool.  Even with the courts involved they may try to do that - but as long as the agreement is clear... . there is nothing that they can really do - and eventually they settle down and understand their behavior does nothing but harm the children.

Or they don't settle down... . then you end up back in court for tighter and tigher restrictions as long as it is in the best interest of the child.  And if they continue to act stupid... . they may just end up in a teeny tiny little room for quite a number of years being fed baloney and an occasional lock down to have to deal with.

Keep us posted if you can.  And try and take care of yourself.

[razemarie]

Thank you for your advice.  I am relieved to say the hand-off went well.  He seemed sad that I would not hang out and it made me feel guilty.  But I know I am doing the right thing.  I could never go back and face the chance of having to go through all of this again.  I'm not sure I'd make it a 2nd time.

[woodsposse]

 

I'm glad the hand off went well. 

I totally understand what you mean by not wanting to go back.  When me and my ex split... . I wavered a bit - but ultimately knew I didn't want to go back.  It was rough... . but I finally made it out of that head space.

[Narellan]

Hi, sorry to hear you're having a difficult time. My thoughts are that BPD exes don't move on. They don't detach if you've had that close attachment. They want to remain in your life in some capacity. As you have a child together he will continue to be in your life, and you've established good boundaries around your LC. Well done. He will continue to try to recycle the relationship but keep your boundaries. Even if he moves on and finds someone to replace you with my feeling is that he'll still continue to view you as a SO.

Peace 

[razemarie]

How do you move forward in live and move on from the relationship if they refuse to ever detach?  I would ultimately like to settle down with someone in life and it's hard to imagine that being an option with an ex that never moves on or lets you go.  Kind of scary to think about actually.

[razemarie]

*move forward in life.

[woodsposse]

How do you move forward in life and move on from the relationship if they refuse to ever detach? 

The detachment and moving forward is what you do - because this is about you.  Always has been, always will be.  Your happiness start and ends with you.  You can live your life... . move on, do other tings and detach.  If they don't... . well... . they just make things a little difficult, but... . that's on them.

It took me forever to figure that part out.  Once I did and finally detached, things got so much easier in my head and heart.

[Cmjo]

Dear Razemarie

You must be tired. How we cope I dont know. I can relate to what is happening. Its one and a half years since I left uBPDexbf, the kids are 10 and 12 now. He has refused to communicate, I am getting abusive silent treatment instead of relentless emails like you! And for short periods he does communicate and tells me about his regular checkups for prostate cancer... . ! I also wondered why he didnt find a replacement, very confusing, I thought maybe it was me, tha left and stood my ground and tried to get on with my life to be a good role model for the kids... . therefore I was the BPD sufferer, because I seemed so harsh and callous, knowing he was in pieces... . ! I do sympathise that you dont want to go to court, that route is scary, I cant either, though finally have resorted to a lawyers letter! Good luck and keep in touch.

[razemarie]

Thanks everyone.  I am working very hard on detaching and moving forward.