Settlement Conference? Should I?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've posted on here a few times about my situation but I'll make it short... .

I have been recommended custody from the GAL and psychological evaluator.  This despite me traveling 10-14 days/month and mom having a steady 9-5 job.  That in itself should say volumes about her behavior.  Anyhow, we are coming up on our final hearing and my lawyer asked if I was willing to do a settlement conference with her lawyer.  My ex is the one who requested the change in custody from shared parenting to her having custody.  It backfired on her very badly.  So do I go into court with a judge deciding our fate who might have sympathy for her and not understand completely the damage her behavior causes or try a settlement conference?  I told my lawyer that I thought the settlement conference was a waste of time.  Thank you all again for your input!

[justaboutdone]

I've posted on here a few times about my situation but I'll make it short... .

I have been recommended custody from the GAL and psychological evaluator.  This despite me traveling 10-14 days/month and mom having a steady 9-5 job.  That in itself should say volumes about her behavior.  Anyhow, we are coming up on our final hearing and my lawyer asked if I was willing to do a settlement conference with her lawyer.  My ex is the one who requested the change in custody from shared parenting to her having custody.  It backfired on her very badly.  So do I go into court with a judge deciding our fate who might have sympathy for her and not understand completely the damage her behavior causes or try a settlement conference?  I told my lawyer that I thought the settlement conference was a waste of time.  Thank you all again for your input!

[david]

If you decide to go to a settlement conference make sure you know what you want and don't give in to changing any of that.
I find that letting my ex go off in mediation, conferences, etc gives me the heads up on what she "needs" to win. I keep quiet until I really need to talk.
If a settlement conference is like a mediation then you can come to no agreement and that will take you to court anyway.

[formflier]

I tend to recommend trying, with the understanding that it will most likely NOT work.

I recommend you use it as part of your tactic to put pressure on her.  So... yes... you need to know what you will accept, but you need to push for much... .much more. 

Highlight the fact that things are going your way... play to her fears.  Your goal is NOT to be fair but to ramp up the pressure... .bigtime. 

Most settlements come on the court house steps or at trial.

The thing you need to be ready for is if she offers or agrees to something much more than "the minimum you will take".  I think you will likely need to grab it... .and call her bluff... .or get a deal you are "ok" with.

There are tons of stories on here of  people that agree... .but the pwBPD changes their mind before it is signed.

Do you understand why you want to increase pressure?

FF

[ForeverDad]

My county had a long list of steps to fulfill before I could get to trial... .temp order, mediation attempts, parenting investigation by the court's social worker, custody evaluation, settlement conference, finally trial.  Since she had a good temp order she dragged her feet every step of the way.  Nearly two years in all.  She threatened me within the first 5-10 minutes of settlement conference in my lawyer's office.  That ended that.  Trial was scheduled 4 months out, that's how long it took to get a full day that neither judge nor lawyers said they were already booked.  When I arrived at the court house on Trial Day I was met with the news she was at last willing to settle.

If you do have the settlement conference, make sure you already have the trial scheduled.  Let it be looming.  That's passive but helpful "leverage" for you to use in your favor.  If you wait until you know the conference has failed, it will be that much longer before you can get to trial.

I agree with the others, know your needs and minimums you'll accept.  Don't feel "I have to settle even if it's a bad settlement."  That's the wrong perspective.  One reason why you don't want to get stuck with a bad settlement is that the next time you're in court seeking fixes the judge or magistrate will look at you and wonder why you agreed to a settlement that didn't work.

However, if you're stretched for money then a successful settlement will not only let you tailor a good order but also will save you the huge cost of a trial.

Even if a settlement is tried and fails, you my still get one "on the court house steps" just beforehand.  Nothing like a looming trial to someone told they're not looking good.

[HopefulDad]

I have been recommended custody from the GAL and psychological evaluator.  This despite me traveling 10-14 days/month and mom having a steady 9-5 job.  That in itself should say volumes about her behavior.  Anyhow, we are coming up on our final hearing and my lawyer asked if I was willing to do a settlement conference with her lawyer.  My ex is the one who requested the change in custody from shared parenting to her having custody.  It backfired on her very badly.  So do I go into court with a judge deciding our fate who might have sympathy for her and not understand completely the damage her behavior causes or try a settlement conference?  I told my lawyer that I thought the settlement conference was a waste of time.  Thank you all again for your input!

I'm not clear on what the settlement conference is about.  Am I understanding you right that:

- You currently have a custody order in place that gives you shared parenting to a percentage of your liking

- She doesn't like it and thus the court date

- The evaluation in the interim favors you

- Now she wants to have a settlement conference

If I have this right, then my answer to you is if you're happy with the current custody agreement, then say no to the settlement conference.  If you have a custody agreement in place, the judge will likely keep it in place unless there is a compelling argument for change.  She can plead her case, but you'll have the evaluation in your hip pocket.  I bet the judge leaves everything as is.

[bunny4523]

I'm not clear on what the settlement conference is about.  Am I understanding you right that:

- You currently have a custody order in place that gives you shared parenting to a percentage of your liking

- She doesn't like it and thus the court date

- The evaluation in the interim favors you

- Now she wants to have a settlement conference

If I have this right, then my answer to you is if you're happy with the current custody agreement, then say no to the settlement conference.  If you have a custody agreement in place, the judge will likely keep it in place unless there is a compelling argument for change.  She can plead her case, but you'll have the evaluation in your hip pocket.  I bet the judge leaves everything as is.

Is a settlement conference similar to like custody "mediation"?  Because if it is, it's just a way for the two of you to discuss and possibly come to an agreement amongst yourselves that will later serve as a court order, with others or another person in the room to quide resolution.

With mediation, if you don't resolve, you still just go to your already scheduled hearing and let a judge hear the case and decide.  Mediation can't really hurt anything... .it's just an attempt to resolve to save time at the hearing and work out as much as you can prior to the hearing.

Bunny 

[justaboutdone]

I'm not clear on what the settlement conference is about.  Am I understanding you right that:

- You currently have a custody order in place that gives you shared parenting to a percentage of your liking

- She doesn't like it and thus the court date

- The evaluation in the interim favors you

- Now she wants to have a settlement conference

If I have this right, then my answer to you is if you're happy with the current custody agreement, then say no to the settlement conference.  If you have a custody agreement in place, the judge will likely keep it in place unless there is a compelling argument for change.  She can plead her case, but you'll have the evaluation in your hip pocket.  I bet the judge leaves everything as is.

Thank you everyone for all the very helpful feedback.  Just to provide a little more background, we have been divorced a little over 2 years.  During that time, mom has been reported to CPS twice, has been very successful alienating the kids from me, behaved terribly in front of the kids, and then she declared that shared parenting wasn't working and filed to terminate shared parenting.  My lawyer and I already had the same plan to terminate shared parenting and agreed that it wasn't working.  Mom has taken no responsibility for her behavior and meanwhile I have it all journaled and recorded to replay all her inappropriate behavior.  In both the two custody evaluator reports, they strongly recommended that I have custody and that a significant amount of counseling take place for the kids and mom.  I think mom thought she could do whatever she wanted since I travelled and the judge will at least give her custody when I am out of town.  The evaluators are recommending that I find a nanny or family to watch the kids when I am out of town.

So I am not settling for shared parenting and I want all of the custody evaluators recommendations.  Her lawyer asked to schedule a settlement conference.  I told my lawyer that seemed like a waste of time because I don't think mom will settle much and she will pretty much need the judge to order it before she will comply.  As it is, my ex violates our shared parenting agreement all the time but she has seen no repercussions for it.  We have a contempt of court filed on her for it but with so much to discuss on one day I feel it won't get the attention it deserves.  Anyhow, I'm happy with the evaluators reports but have little expectations for the court system.

[david]

Is a settlement conference the same as a mediation ? If it is different, what are the differences.

[HopefulDad]

Thank you everyone for all the very helpful feedback.  Just to provide a little more background, we have been divorced a little over 2 years.  During that time, mom has been reported to CPS twice, has been very successful alienating the kids from me, behaved terribly in front of the kids, and then she declared that shared parenting wasn't working and filed to terminate shared parenting.  My lawyer and I already had the same plan to terminate shared parenting and agreed that it wasn't working.  Mom has taken no responsibility for her behavior and meanwhile I have it all journaled and recorded to replay all her inappropriate behavior.  In both the two custody evaluator reports, they strongly recommended that I have custody and that a significant amount of counseling take place for the kids and mom.  I think mom thought she could do whatever she wanted since I travelled and the judge will at least give her custody when I am out of town.  The evaluators are recommending that I find a nanny or family to watch the kids when I am out of town.

So I am not settling for shared parenting and I want all of the custody evaluators recommendations.  Her lawyer asked to schedule a settlement conference.  I told my lawyer that seemed like a waste of time because I don't think mom will settle much and she will pretty much need the judge to order it before she will comply.  As it is, my ex violates our shared parenting agreement all the time but she has seen no repercussions for it.  We have a contempt of court filed on her for it but with so much to discuss on one day I feel it won't get the attention it deserves.  Anyhow, I'm happy with the evaluators reports but have little expectations for the court system.

That clarifies things quite a bit.  I think she wants the settlement conference because she knows she'll lose in court so she thinks she can sway you to voluntarily give up some of your custody.  I'm assuming the CE recommendations are going to be seen by the judge.  If I were you, I'd tell her to pound sand on the settlement conference and that you'll see her in court.

Based on what you said, at worst I see the judge sticking with the status quo.  If the judge is going to make any changes, I strongly suspect it's going to be in your favor.  Her lawyer can plead her case to the cows come home, but two independent CE reports are really going to hold weight in the judge's eyes when considering changes from the status quo.

[formflier]

My gut says go to settlement conference... .ask for full custody and support from her.  Basically... .something "much worse" that what you would get in court.

It would appear momentum is in your favor... .apply pressure.  Lots of it. 

This is not about compromise... .it's about winning. (for the sake of your kids)

FF

[HopefulDad]

My gut says go to settlement conference... .ask for full custody and support from her.  Basically... .something "much worse" that what you would get in court.

It would appear momentum is in your favor... .apply pressure.  Lots of it. 

This is not about compromise... .it's about winning. (for the sake of your kids)

FF

But settlement conferences are not free.  If the OP doesn't think it will bear any fruit, I don't think he should waste his money.

[david]

I looked up settlement conference and it appears that it is a hybrid type of mediation. A retired judge and both attorneys are present. The parents may or may not be present from what I read. If the court ordered the conference then you must go. The conference itself costs nothing but you will have attorney fees. If an agreement is reached than it goes to a judge and he/she makes it an order. If no agreement is reached then the conference judge says that no agreement has been reached and then you have to make a hearing date. The site also indicated that everything in a settlement conference is confidential and can not be used in a trial. The evidence can be used but anything that happens in a conference can not. Not sure if this is all true.
If it is, the only thing I would caution is how much you divulge to ex and her attorney during the conference. The less her attorney knows the better you are in court. Figure out what you can use and what you need to save for court. If you have two CE recommendations perhaps you use only one if her attorney doesn't know about both. Keep the stronger one for court.
Read the art of war. You want the enemy to give up before the fighting even begins.
My ex can not negotiate anything with me and gets dysregulated just by my presence. She says way too much and that is an advantage for me. I went through a mediation once and several conferences but not a settlement conference. During equitable distribution my ex went off on me and then her attorney jumped in on it. My attorney stopped her attorney from attacking me. I just sat there in silence and stared at the beige wall in front of me. I was listening to it all.Finally my attorney showed a small sample of the evidence I had and her atty immediately took ex out of the room and we settled in about 15 minutes after that. Her atty realized her client was not being honest with her and my atty had loads of ammo for the judge.
I agree to ask for much more than you actually want and settle for what you want or more. Don't budge on what you consider non negotiable.

[justaboutdone]

I looked up settlement conference and it appears that it is a hybrid type of mediation. A retired judge and both attorneys are present. The parents may or may not be present from what I read. If the court ordered the conference then you must go. The conference itself costs nothing but you will have attorney fees. If an agreement is reached than it goes to a judge and he/she makes it an order. If no agreement is reached then the conference judge says that no agreement has been reached and then you have to make a hearing date. The site also indicated that everything in a settlement conference is confidential and can not be used in a trial. The evidence can be used but anything that happens in a conference can not. Not sure if this is all true.
If it is, the only thing I would caution is how much you divulge to ex and her attorney during the conference. The less her attorney knows the better you are in court. Figure out what you can use and what you need to save for court. If you have two CE recommendations perhaps you use only one if her attorney doesn't know about both. Keep the stronger one for court.
Read the art of war. You want the enemy to give up before the fighting even begins.
My ex can not negotiate anything with me and gets dysregulated just by my presence. She says way too much and that is an advantage for me. I went through a mediation once and several conferences but not a settlement conference. During equitable distribution my ex went off on me and then her attorney jumped in on it. My attorney stopped her attorney from attacking me. I just sat there in silence and stared at the beige wall in front of me. I was listening to it all.Finally my attorney showed a small sample of the evidence I had and her atty immediately took ex out of the room and we settled in about 15 minutes after that. Her atty realized her client was not being honest with her and my atty had loads of ammo for the judge.
I agree to ask for much more than you actually want and settle for what you want or more. Don't budge on what you consider non negotiable.

Thank you everyone again for all the feedback.  It has been very helpful where as before I was essentially having this conversation with myself.  I think my lawyer used the term settlement conference loosely and was implying that we would just meet privately and see if we can come to an agreement between my lawyer and her.  I will need to ask my lawyer.  The recordings of her are horrible even post divorce with her swearing in front of the kids and calling me all kinds of names and telling them what a horrible person I am.  She did everything wrong that a person can possibly do without getting into alcohol or drugs.  There is no question I would have full custody if I didn't travel for work but this is her one get out of jail free card that she can play.  But like I said before, she doesn't think that her behavior is wrong so court seems inevitable.  Based on the recommendations here, I told my lawyer that maybe we should try the settlement conference just to see her cards and how far apart we are.  But I also told her I don't want anything less than what the professionals appointed by the court recommended in their conclusion.  Their recommendations are in the best interest for the kids.

[HopefulDad]

I looked up settlement conference and it appears that it is a hybrid type of mediation. A retired judge and both attorneys are present. The parents may or may not be present from what I read. If the court ordered the conference then you must go. The conference itself costs nothing but you will have attorney fees. If an agreement is reached than it goes to a judge and he/she makes it an order. If no agreement is reached then the conference judge says that no agreement has been reached and then you have to make a hearing date. The site also indicated that everything in a settlement conference is confidential and can not be used in a trial. The evidence can be used but anything that happens in a conference can not. Not sure if this is all true.

Good general overview, but there are details that differ depending on where you live.  Yes, a retired judge is typically the settlement officer.  However, the settlement officer is likely to get paid if the settlement conference is voluntary... .like paying a mediator.  The settlement officer may still get paid even if court-ordered. 

The lawyer fees alone will make the decision to attend a settlement conference a cost-benefit analysis.  You're likely looking at a few billable hours which might be best saved for court if you think that's where you're headed anyway.  If you also have to pay for a settlement officer, then really be sure you think it's worth it.

[formflier]

Love the art of war.

You need to chat with your attorney and make sure you understand what information both sides have and what only you have.

If both sides see all of it... .then you only worry about how to use it. 

Listen, if you think you can get a great settlement before trial, that limits risk.  Sometimes things go haywire in court... .they just do.  So... .if you think a settlement can be had... .it's worth a shot.

However, many pwBPD love arguing and circular arguments... .and shifting goalposts.  If that is your relationship, then talk to L about how to conduct the conference and keep billing to a minimum.

If you do have "confidential info", make sure you show it at a point of maximum pressure.  Your L can guide you on that.  If you show it too early... .they have time to prepare and refute.

FF

[david]

It seemed in the beginning courts can be a crap shoot. When I learned the "rules of the game" and had evidence to back me up it was much easier to "win". I also found an attorney that listened and worked with me as a team. My first one was horrible and I didn't know it until I figured out the rules. My new attorney listens and tells me what he needs to accomplish my goal. He challenges me when he thinks I am off course. Sometimes, after I better explain myself, he changes his mind. We communicate better than my first attorney. He also follows the rule of showing just what needs to be shown and nothing more. During equitable distribution he showed ex's attorney 4 or 5 pieces of evidence that would be used in court. It was from a stack of close to 40 pieces. The pile could have been a bluff but ex's attorney wasn't willing to take a chance.
Once in court ex was lying on the stand and I had nothing to rebut what she was saying. I picked up a blank piece of paper and handed it to my attorney. I simply told him ex was lying. I was sure ex was watching.  I covered my mouth so she couldn't read my lips. Magically ex changed her testimony and told the truth. I realized then that she knew the difference between the truth and lies. Ex no longer gets me discombobulated like in the beginning. This makes her even more irrational which helps in court. I stay calm and focused on our boys.
I was questioned in a custody eval about what I thought was best as far as the schedule during school. It wasn't the typical way the courts in this county do things. I explained myself and answered the evaluators questions and challenges with well thought out answers. I honestly believed my schedule was best for our boys. He recommended the schedule. In court, the judge challenged me about some of the same things. I gave pretty much the same answer. I don't know if the evaluator gave the judge the questions or not since they were similar. The judge gave me the exact schedule I was seeking. 

[flourdust]

Make sure you understand what the rules are of this mediation or settlement conference. There's potentially a big difference between court-ordered (or court-structured) and completely voluntary private mediation.

Before agreeing to mediation, I would suggest you think about what your goals are and if you think you can get closer to them this way. For example, if you want to understand your wife's negotiation position, and you think that the mediation will get her to produce a proposal, then the mediation might be of value, even if you don't come to agreement. If you think it's going to be two hours of pointless debate, then maybe not.

You can approach this with certain strategies if the process permits it -- for example, you can insist on a written proposal by a certain date, or you will cancel the mediation. You can ask for separate rooms during mediation if you think that being in the same room will lead to arguing instead of negotiating. You can end mediation and walk out (thus saving some money) if you feel it's not going anywhere. Make your plan first.

[ForeverDad]

The recordings of her are horrible even post divorce with her swearing in front of the kids and calling me all kinds of names and telling them what a horrible person I am.

My ex did this, she had done it all along, but it finally got court attention when I already had custody but only equal time.  The magistrate noted at least six times in the decision that she disparaged me when raging at or about me in the presence of our son.  No other word was repeated that much, so it must have a significant legal impact.  Try to get those words - disparaged, disparagement, etc - used by your lawyer when her rants and rages are being addressed.

She did everything wrong that a person can possibly do without getting into alcohol or drugs.  There is no question I would have full custody if I didn't travel for work but this is her one get out of jail free card that she can play.  But like I said before, she doesn't think that her behavior is wrong so court seems inevitable.  Based on the recommendations here, I told my lawyer that maybe we should try the settlement conference just to see her cards and how far apart we are.  But I also told her I don't want anything less than what the professionals appointed by the court recommended in their conclusion.  Their recommendations are in the best interest for the kids.

Sadly, you can't afford to be passive or appear weak to her when presenting your case.  It's okay for her to feel you're a meanie, she won't think well of you anyway, when the kids are at stake.  Consider a strong proactive stance as holding to firm boundaries.

[justaboutdone]

Thank you everyone again for your insights.  I am tempted to start a new thread to announce my news after 2 plus years in the court system, but I finally have custody!  We passed on the settlement conference and my lawyer slipped her lawyer some of our recorded evidence days before the hearing.  When we walked into the courthouse we had an offer.  I feel like I want to thank everyone for their support and especially this board which was invaluable.  Thank you. I feel like my kids have a chance now to develop emotionally healthy.  I feel that I will be back in court eventually but for the next couple years I will have lots of time to model for my kids a normal life.