I have never felt more trapped in my life

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have instituted a business-only contact rule.  We talk about child care coordination and that's generally it.  Its going to be really hard though cause I need to see her twice a day to exchange children.  How do you all recommend that I enforce this when she pulls out all the stops every time she sees me.  Like for instance right now she is so desperate to talk to me that she is telling g me that she had cancer and is dying.  Just ignore it right?  

BTW... .I want to qualify this by saying that there is no way for me to really know if she has cancer.  If she does not have cancer... .But she is telling me that she does have cancer.  This unequivocally means that she believes that she does in fact have cancer. She believes her own lies. It is actually scary.

Good self-awareness on your part - yeah, you were a bit over the top. Kudos to you.

We have lesson on BIFF communications - brief, informative, friendly, firm.  This is one way to avoid being drawn into drama.

The bigger question is dealing with her desire to just communicate with you - I don't feel well, I won a softball game, my boss sucks, I'm lonely... .Is ignoring this and then caving in the best strategy?

No.  It's the worst.  You are rewarding bad behavior.  Encouraging it, actually.

Controlled contact might work better. Listen (but have a limit) and don't fix - don't get drawn into the exaggeration - just be supportive.

I have cancer.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, its bad

When are you getting treatment

I don't know yet

Let me know when you find out

Who is going to take care of me.

There is a lot to think about. Let me know when you are going to treatment - if I have to keep the kids.

[Skip]

I have instituted a business-only contact rule.  We talk about child care coordination and that's generally it.  Its going to be really hard though cause I need to see her twice a day to exchange children.  How do you all recommend that I enforce this when she pulls out all the stops every time she sees me.  Like for instance right now she is so desperate to talk to me that she is telling g me that she had cancer and is dying.  Just ignore it right?  

BTW... .I want to qualify this by saying that there is no way for me to really know if she has cancer.  If she does not have cancer... .But she is telling me that she does have cancer.  This unequivocally means that she believes that she does in fact have cancer. She believes her own lies. It is actually scary.

Good self-awareness on your part - yeah, you were a bit over the top. Kudos to you.

We have lesson on BIFF communications - brief, informative, friendly, firm.  This is one way to avoid being drawn into drama.

The bigger question is dealing with her desire to just communicate with you - I don't feel well, I won a softball game, my boss sucks, I'm lonely... .Is ignoring this and then caving in the best strategy?

No.  It's the worst.  You are rewarding bad behavior.  Encouraging it, actually.

Controlled contact might work better. Listen (but have a limit) and don't fix - don't get drawn into the exaggeration - just be supportive.

I have cancer.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, its bad

When are you getting treatment

I don't know yet

Let me know when you find out

Who is going to take care of me.

There is a lot to think about. Let me know when you are going to treatment - if I have to keep the kids.

[jac8949]

I have instituted a business-only contact rule.  We talk about child care coordination and that's generally it.  Its going to be really hard though cause I need to see her twice a day to exchange children.  How do you all recommend that I enforce this when she pulls out all the stops every time she sees me.  Like for instance right now she is so desperate to talk to me that she is telling g me that she had cancer and is dying.  Just ignore it right?  

BTW... .I want to qualify this by saying that there is no way for me to really know if she has cancer.  If she does not have cancer... .But she is telling me that she does have cancer.  This unequivocally means that she believes that she does in fact have cancer. She believes her own lies. It is actually scary.

Good self-awareness on your part - yeah, you were a bit over the top. Kudos to you.

We have lesson on BIFF communications - brief, informative, friendly, firm.  This is one way to avoid being drawn into drama.

The bigger question is dealing with her desire to just communicate with you - I don't feel well, I won a softball game, my boss sucks, I'm lonely... .Is ignoring this and then caving in the best strategy?

No.  It's the worst.  You are rewarding bad behavior.  Encouraging it, actually.

Controlled contact might work better. Listen (but have a limit) and don't fix - don't get drawn into the exaggeration - just be supportive.

I have cancer.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Yes, its bad

When are you getting treatment

I don't know yet

Let me know when you find out

Who is going to take care of me.

There is a lot to think about. Let me know when you are going to treatment - if I have to keep the kids.

I read your suggestions on boundaries... .Here is  my first attempt... .


Value- I value a peace and spiritually in my life. In my case maintaining this spiritual condition is a matter of life and death... It is vital for my recovery.

Boundary- attempting to emotionally support my ex by spending time with her or talking to her about her feelings jeapordizes my spiritually.

Action- I will limit my communication and contact with this person to scenarios concerning only the welfare of the children

[Skip]

Thats fair.

Where does "peace and spiritually in my life" rank with your value for your children's having a healthy environment to grow up in.

I hear you that you wish she would vanish. I don't question your frustrations with her. I'm not suggesting that you do any of this for her.

It really comes down looking across values and the kids.

Like it or not, she will be in your everyday life until the kids are 18. It looks like she falls back on you when she has needs. How do you transition away from this without creating more drama?

I will limit my communication and contact with this person to scenarios concerning only the welfare of the children

How can you change/reduce the daily physical contact routine? I might start there.

[ASD]

Jac5703 I think I am in a similar situation to you.  You have to stick around and make sure the kids are ok.  I am trying to find a way to have my SO Baker Acted or checked-in to a hospital of some kind then file for divorce and get the kids on a permanent basis. 

If you found this site you are resourceful enough, and can find help here, to find the right solution, save the kids and yourself and move on.  I don't know what moving on looks like yet but I know it can't be much worse than this.

[jac8949]

Thats fair.

Where does "peace and spiritually in my life" rank with your value for your children's having a healthy environment to grow up in.

I hear you that you wish she would vanish. I don't question your frustrations with her. I'm not suggesting that you do any of this for her.

It really comes down looking across values and the kids.

Like it or not, she will be in your everyday life until the kids are 18. It looks like she falls back on you when she has needs. How do you transition away from this without creating more drama?

I will limit my communication and contact with this person to scenarios concerning only the welfare of the children

How can you change/reduce the daily physical contact routine? I might start there.

Maintainance of spirituality is #1 on the priority list.  While ensuring the children have a healthy environment to grow up in is #2.   Spiritual growth is a matter of life and death for me... I am a recovered alcoholic. God made that possible. Now I think the next step in my spiritual growth could very well be solving this issue with the ex girlfriend and thereby improving my children's life.  I have so many decisions go make... .Do I continue to support her financially?  Do I file a restraining order? Do I file for custody? I honestly don't want any of that. I just want a normal coparenting experience... .Would taking a stand make things better or worse?

Regarding your suggestions about physical contact... .She is daycare when I go to work and I am daycare when she goes to school.  Does it make sense force her to put school on hold in order to limit the frequency of kid transfers... .

[rarsweet]

I know it is really hard to be physically in their presence. How old are your kids? What helped me so much is doing our exchange at the police station. Now almost a year later we do exchanges at a store. It limits the antics and baiting.

[gomez_addams]

2. Document everything - keep a simply log book of abusive or erratic events.

I've also heard that it is wise to document every good thing that you do.  Be super dad, to the best of your ability, and document that. 

My experience (no kids) was different, so I didn't have to go that route.  Only passing on what I learned from others.

Gomez

[Suzn]

Maintainance of spirituality is #1 on the priority list.  While ensuring the children have a healthy environment to grow up in is #2. 

It's good that you see you have to put the oxygen mask on you first. You can't provide a healthy environment for your children if you aren't in a healthy place yourself.

I am a recovered alcoholic. God made that possible.

It's obvious you have cultivated a relationship with your higher power to help you through which is awesome. I'd just like to say give yourself some credit here, you chose to look to a higher power. You did that. A relationship takes two.

I have so many decisions go make... .Do I continue to support her financially?  Do I file a restraining order? Do I file for custody? I honestly don't want any of that. I just want a normal coparenting experience... .Would taking a stand make things better or worse?

Regarding your suggestions about physical contact... .She is daycare when I go to work and I am daycare when she goes to school.  Does it make sense force her to put school on hold in order to limit the frequency of kid transfers... .

How much of your decision process is you fixing things for her? How much of this is you hiding her behaviors? She's an adult. Are you keeping her from natural consequences, thus enabling her and keeping her from learning life lessons?

From everything you've shared a normal coparenting experience is highly unlikely. What would you do with the kids during the day if she weren't in the picture daily? I know she is right now, however it may help to look at this from a different angle where the responsibility squarely rests on your shoulders.

[jac8949]

Maintainance of spirituality is #1 on the priority list.  While ensuring the children have a healthy environment to grow up in is #2. 

It's good that you see you have to put the oxygen mask on you first. You can't provide a healthy environment for your children if you aren't in a healthy place yourself.

I am a recovered alcoholic. God made that possible.

It's obvious you have cultivated a relationship with your higher power to help you through which is awesome. I'd just like to say give yourself some credit here, you chose to look to a higher power. You did that. A relationship takes two.

I have so many decisions go make... .Do I continue to support her financially?  Do I file a restraining order? Do I file for custody? I honestly don't want any of that. I just want a normal coparenting experience... .Would taking a stand make things better or worse?

Regarding your suggestions about physical contact... .She is daycare when I go to work and I am daycare when she goes to school.  Does it make sense force her to put school on hold in order to limit the frequency of kid transfers... .

How much of your decision process is you fixing things for her? How much of this is you hiding her behaviors? She's an adult. Are you keeping her from natural consequences, thus enabling her and keeping her from learning life lessons?

From everything you've shared a normal coparenting experience is highly unlikely. What would you do with the kids during the day if she weren't in the picture daily? I know she is right now, however it may help to look at this from a different angle where the responsibility squarely rests on your shoulders.

I would just put them in daycare... .Until the state begins to take money out of my paycheck for child support then I will need to quit working to take care of the kids. 

At least now I have control over where the money goes... .But that's the crux of the  problem.  I have been controling it for nine years and I have made a holy mess out of the whole thing.

[rarsweet]

If you quit working how will you provide for the kids? Does she work as well as go to school? Do you have any family that could help you with child care? I assume they aren't old enough for school? How are the kids doing dealing with the conflict between you. If you close your eyes and picture the perfect scenario, solution, what do you see? How can you get there?

[rarsweet]

Is she wanting sole custody, terminal cancer would rule that option out. Not that I sm suggesting ill parents can't be parents, but I would assume she wouldn't be well enough to be the sole parent without a lot of help. Just a suggestion for you to throw out there if she is just trying to get your attention.

[ForeverDad]

Now I think the next step in my spiritual growth could very well be solving this issue with the ex girlfriend and thereby improving my children's life... .I just want a normal coparenting experience... .Would taking a stand make things better or worse?

Your reality is likely just like ours, that we cannot fix the coparenting issues by 'solving' the issues with the ex.  A solution of that sort may not be possible.  If you can accomplish that, great, but many here have had to put the parenting first and see how the rest worked out - or not.

Generally, setting reasonable but firm boundaries is a necessity.  Yes, it may trigger overreactions, especially at first, but overall it is better than appeasing, dancing around all the issues and triggers or endlessly walking on eggshells.

[jac8949]

I am simply looking for the best way to make her go away from me

Hi jac5073,

Boundaries are a challenge for many members here, it's a learned skill.

She understands your boundaries are negotiable and has learned to escalate her behavior until you cave (letting her spend the night). You have a breaking point and she knows this. What's going on for you when you give in? What other choices could you make when you feel that level of distress?

WORKSHOP: Boundaries: Living our Values

Independent core values determine our decisions and guide our lives. Boundaries are how we define our values to others. A boundary is nothing more than the outer perimeters of our independent core values -  it's like a fence  - anything inside the boundary is consistent with our core values and anything outside the boundary is not. Even when we live our values responsibly, we can still encounter boundary busting. Read more.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Examples of boundaries

This thread talks about examples of our values, our boundaries, and how to defend those boundaries.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

BPD Behaviors: Extinction Burst and Intermittent Reinforcement

What does extinction burst mean and why should I care about this stuff?  Because when you try to implement boundaries you will most likely see an increase in bad behavior because the BPD sufferer isn't getting the response they expect. They become confused and frustrated. You've changed the rules by not giving your typical response. They will increase their bad behavior to try to get the response they are used to.   If we are prepared going in ahead of time... .see how:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

FYI... .I am on day 5 of the "we only talk about coparenting" boundary.  And the conversation is only via text... .She is still pushing the cancer issue... .Says she has a procedure and I need to come and be there for her.  If I didn't read this workshop on extinction bursts... .I would have caved right there... .But with you all helping I have told her that the most I can do is watch the kids when she has her treatment... .

[livednlearned]

FYI... .I am on day 5 of the "we only talk about coparenting" boundary.  And the conversation is only via text... .She is still pushing the cancer issue... .Says she has a procedure and I need to come and be there for her.  If I didn't read this workshop on extinction bursts... .I would have caved right there... .But with you all helping I have told her that the most I can do is watch the kids when she has her treatment... .

This is big, jac5073. Changing habits and behaviors is profoundly challenging -- maybe some of the hardest work we can do on ourselves. I am really proud of you! For me, too, the extinction burst workshop was a real game changer. When we understand the behavior, it does help add some clarity to what is otherwise baffling behavior. And that can make it easier to manage our own reactions and responses.

You really made my day with this 

LnL

[Skip]

With respect to the cancer... .

Let's assume it is true. I suspect that it is.  Cancer procedures can be a wide range of things.

You said that historically you would have "caved".  I take that to mean "rescue".

You're not doing that.  And as long as you have no reciprocal expectations of her should you have a medical condition, that's good.  Don't rescue.

But what is the opposite of rescue? 

I might suggest that it is being supportive - and not rescuing.  You can communicate concern, concern for the kids, hope, compassion - without rescuing and without being manipulated.

This balance my be more effective in establishing that you are detaching and the relationship, as it was, is over.