My abandonments

[Depression = 72% of members]

The last time I talked to D, he semi-explained his behavior by saying he had abandonment issues. That makes a lot of sense. He wasn't actually abandoned as a kid, but I realize that's not the point.

Well, I have my own abandonment issues. I don't make "frantic efforts to avoid abandonment," but I am quick to feel rejected. Also, I can't say goodbye to people. I go to crazy lengths to maintain relationships with people who I have every reason to let go of. Like, in my mind, D, I guess.

My father used to ditch us all the time. Just leave us, as kids, in some restaurant or whatnot. We were taught to feel that this was because we were so smart and special and didn't need adults. Not even at 5 and 6 years old.

My parents split when I was 2, and my mom and I lived in 9 different places across three states the first year.

I walked myself to and from preschool at age 4, rode buses and subways around by myself at 5, and I was a latchkey kid (alone in my apt where I lived with my mom) starting age 7.

My mother moved away from me when I was 10. Moved to Canada to live on a derelict farm with no plumbing or electricity or heating, with a drunk who she barely knew. I missed her and asked to move there 6 months later. The drunk hated me, but Mom stuck by him.

I moved out on my own volition at age 12 to live with relatives.

I moved back in with my dad when I was almost 14, and he died when I was almost 15--after a long illness that my siblings and I nursed him through. Mom stayed in Canada.

I went to college at 16. I got pregnant by a boy I met that fall, and then he abandoned me. I had an abortion. I didn't tell my family about it. I moved into my own place, with no phone, and then I got really sick and ended up in the hospital for a week. My family didn't know I was there. I had to drop out of college.

Etc.

Maybe more significantly, my parents left me with a sitter for a month when I was 10-11 months old, and then again a year later. I'm not sure why I don't have BPD, but I'm assured by the psychologists who tested me that I don't.

And then D abandoned me, and he told me he couldn't be nice to me because he had abandonment issues.

I don't mean to have a pity party for myself. It's just that I'm feeling very sad today that we, two broken people, could not have been better to each other.

Thanks for listening.

[steelwork]

The last time I talked to D, he semi-explained his behavior by saying he had abandonment issues. That makes a lot of sense. He wasn't actually abandoned as a kid, but I realize that's not the point.

Well, I have my own abandonment issues. I don't make "frantic efforts to avoid abandonment," but I am quick to feel rejected. Also, I can't say goodbye to people. I go to crazy lengths to maintain relationships with people who I have every reason to let go of. Like, in my mind, D, I guess.

My father used to ditch us all the time. Just leave us, as kids, in some restaurant or whatnot. We were taught to feel that this was because we were so smart and special and didn't need adults. Not even at 5 and 6 years old.

My parents split when I was 2, and my mom and I lived in 9 different places across three states the first year.

I walked myself to and from preschool at age 4, rode buses and subways around by myself at 5, and I was a latchkey kid (alone in my apt where I lived with my mom) starting age 7.

My mother moved away from me when I was 10. Moved to Canada to live on a derelict farm with no plumbing or electricity or heating, with a drunk who she barely knew. I missed her and asked to move there 6 months later. The drunk hated me, but Mom stuck by him.

I moved out on my own volition at age 12 to live with relatives.

I moved back in with my dad when I was almost 14, and he died when I was almost 15--after a long illness that my siblings and I nursed him through. Mom stayed in Canada.

I went to college at 16. I got pregnant by a boy I met that fall, and then he abandoned me. I had an abortion. I didn't tell my family about it. I moved into my own place, with no phone, and then I got really sick and ended up in the hospital for a week. My family didn't know I was there. I had to drop out of college.

Etc.

Maybe more significantly, my parents left me with a sitter for a month when I was 10-11 months old, and then again a year later. I'm not sure why I don't have BPD, but I'm assured by the psychologists who tested me that I don't.

And then D abandoned me, and he told me he couldn't be nice to me because he had abandonment issues.

I don't mean to have a pity party for myself. It's just that I'm feeling very sad today that we, two broken people, could not have been better to each other.

Thanks for listening.

[steelwork]

My mother moved away from me when I was 10. Moved to Canada to live on a derelict farm with no plumbing or electricity or heating,

I mean, there was a wood stove.

[Sunfl0wer]

I am sorry steelwork, you have had to endure quite a bit and I realize you summarized and condensed it and that there is likely even so much more to your story.

I had an unfavorable/unpredictable upbringing.  I have some mild abandonment/rejection fears, yet like yourself, I did not develop BPD or any PD.  However, my older sister did.

On getting to know my ex, I recognized he seemed, as you say, 'broken' like me.  I took him to be a fellow PTSDer.  I thought I would help him see and heal in his awareness about his own trauma and it would be a growing strong together bond that would develop between us.  This is how things began to evolve.

It made so much sense to me for us to help heal one another... .

It is so unfortunate as I do think there was much we could learn and grow together.

Have you yet found and read the story around here about the abandoned child and the lonely child?  If not, you must!  I'll look for it tomorrow if you haven't.

[Driver]

Sorry to hear you had to endure all this steelwork.

To answer your question why you didn't develop BPD, I guess that, with all due respect to what you endured, it takes much more than that, such as being physically mistreated, severely beaten, raped or sexually abused as a child, and in addition to all that it seems that pwBPD unfortunately inherit low levels of serotonin. Thus it seems that in order to develop BPD it doesn't depend only on our past but also on biological development.

[ja.pani.ka]

I think, the point is we ourselves are very vulnerable due to our traumatic childhood etc. and that's why our BPDsos get so deep "into us" in the first place. This is so difficult.

All the best... .

[troisette]

Oh, Steelwork, what a story - I sympathise with you and no wonder you have abandonment issues.

I have too, my childhood was horrible, almost unremittingly horrible. Won't go into details but understand your feelings.

However, aren't we lucky that we didn't develop BPD? Crumbs of comfort, but we didn't.

Are you sure you are "broken"? - maybe you are damaged, maybe seriously damaged by your childhood and exBPD but you are here... .it's a tool for recovery. It took me several decades to understand my repetitive patterns - before the internet information was not so easily accessible. You are younger and I hope that your experiences and the damage they caused are repairable and you enjoy a better life in the future. It is possible. 

[khibomsis]

Steelwork, your story of your childhood horrified me. So many abandonments, so much neglect. I grew up much like you, have been following your posts on the parenting board too, and related to so much. I often wondered why my older brother 'caught'  the NBPD from my mom and I didn't, but thought maybe it was just the luck of the draw, i.e. genetics. But now I wonder also if being the scapegoat child didn't help. After being blackened all my life I rejected as much of her values as I could, two long periods of NC in my teens and twenties and mostly ELC also probably saved me. Like you I ended up depressed and PTSD but I can live with that. I mostly feel sorry for my brother because for him there is no escape. Being the bad child gives me the freedom to focus on the BPD behaviour I have practiced in my life simply because I never knew any better.

Anyway, in answer to your question, of course two broken people can comfort one another. I just think it has to be the right type of hurt. My current spouse and I are both rescuers with a long history of co-dependency. It was such a relief   to be able to rescue one another. I utterly love being taken care of and so does she. No doubt it is not sane, but it works. And from the place of safety we are able to create for each other we can change and grow and discover sanity and boundaries and all those lovely things. Don't give up hope. Neither of us were looking but somehow that turned out to be the perfect moment to find one another.

[C.Stein]

To answer your question why you didn't develop BPD, I guess that, with all due respect to what you endured, it takes much more than that, such as being physically mistreated, severely beaten, raped or sexually abused as a child, and in addition to all that it seems that pwBPD unfortunately inherit low levels of serotonin. Thus it seems that in order to develop BPD it doesn't depend only on our past but also on biological development.

I don't believe there is conclusive evidence to suggest any of these factors are required to develop BPD.

[steelwork]

Seems it's all too common that people who end up getting burned in a relationship with a pwBPD have experienced some kind of childhood neglect. Not everyone, surely, but lots of us, and so it's no surprise that the loss is so painful and hard to process.

Stating the obvious ^^^.  Also, that's how I minimize my feelings. That's what I usually have done, but I'm trying something new. Not sure how it's going. In so many ways it just feels worse, looking at my own life head-on.

Sunfl0wer, I googled that: lonely/abandoned child. I found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BPD/comments/3okbaa/what_do_you_think_about_the_lonely_child_and_the/

It sounds uncannily like us. But then I wonder sometimes if those things you read online, even here, where everyone says, "Yes, that is me!" can really just be filed under "the human condition."

See? ^^^ minimizing again. But it really does sound right. I mean, he talked about how "understanding-driven" I was, though not in those terms; it seemed to be one of the main things he found magical in me: how "slow to judgment" I was, how "kind, perceptive," etc. Looking back I think, "Wait, D--what about you understanding me a little?" There was a tacit assumption that the understanding only had to flow in one direction. And the history, the dynamics, the unravelling... .all that sounds like us, yeah.

Everyone, thank you for your sympathy and advice and understanding.

khibomsis: you know, I didn't reject the values in my family. I very much absorbed them, despite being my mother's scapegoat.

It's complicated. It was a little like being in a cult. I thought all the things that were so difficult about my life, and my powers of endurance, were actually what made me "special" -- and that came from my family, and no one outside the family could really appreciate it. There was so much emphasis on independence that stepping away from my family wasn't really a rejection of their values anyhow. It was just kind of a vacuum. I ignored my depression until I was in my mid-twenties, when the panic attacks sent me to a doctor, and for decades after that I resisted the truth that it had its origins in my family. It's been a long slow awakening since then. The C-PTSD was not diagnosed or even mentioned until last year.

(troisette, thanks for the good thoughts! I'm not sure what younger means... .I'm 50, which does not seem old to me, but also not really young.)

driver: I hesitate to say this, because I certainly am glad not to have been physically or sexually abused, but I'm not entirely sure emotional abuse is less damaging. That's what the experts say, anyhow: it can actually be more damaging in some ways, because it's harder to understand and it goes unnoticed, often for a lifetime.

And apparently this attachment stuff is a big deal. So much happened before I was 3 to interrupt that attachment. And my mother, being who she is, can't have been in any shape to really bond with us anyhow.

[troisette]

Yes, I'm older than you steelwork   

And double yes, fifty is not old. 

I agree, emotional abuse, by whatever means, can be more damaging than physical abuse. The wounds are harder to detect. Childhood neglect is a terrible thing to deal with, looking after yourself when ill, making decisions for yourself that should  be made by adult carers, and then the emotional neglect. Too much responsibility too young.  None of it to be underestimated.

 

[steelwork]

Yes, I'm older than you steelwork  

And double yes, fifty is not old.  

I agree, emotional abuse, by whatever means, can be more damaging than physical abuse. The wounds are harder to detect. Childhood neglect is a terrible thing to deal with, looking after yourself when ill, making decisions for yourself that should  be made by adult carers, and then the emotional neglect. Too much responsibility too young.  None of it to be underestimated.

 

Yay for not old! To hell with old anyhow. My aunt is 93, and she's the liveliest funnest person I know.

And, sure, none of it is to be underestimated, and there's much we don't understand. I was thumbing through Alice Miller's The Drama of the Gifted Child looking for a passage where she talks about how one person could be taken from his mother, with whom he'd bonded well, at a young age and go on to have a horrible childhood filled with terrible physical and emotional abuse and emerge more intact than another person who suffered far less but did not have a good bond in infancy with a primary caregiver. But I can't find the passage. Anyhow, the point is that the stuff that drives our attachment styles happens very early, and this affects how well we cope with subsequent trauma. Whatever you think of Alice Miller (and I'm on the fence), that seems pretty established.

[khibomsis]

steelwork, there is no explanation for why one makes it and another breaks that is the same for all of us. We are of different strengths, that's all. I try hard to form a loving bond with all my fosters because one thing that seems to help is at least one person who can model healthy love for us. I know for a fact that without my father in all his enabling codependency I would not have survived emotionally. Because he listened. Still, with all my efforts one of my fosters has recently been diagnosed BPD and this though I gave her my best since a baby because I knew she was high risk (my uBPD mother's favourite). Child accepts diagnosis and is in care so two big hurdles crossed but I am still hurting. I guess it validates me to think that it stops somewhere so the fact that it doesn't stop is huge. I am hoping this is a breakthrough crisis for me. It has brought me to a point where I am dealing with emotional incest seriously. At last. Emotional abuse is so hard because it slips. It is hard to define, hard to track -especially when it is a family culture and therefore the norm - and hard to end. Emotional incest in a BPD family two big uncertainties. Kind of like a twilight zone in a twilight zone I don't even know where I belong. Should it be on the parent board or on the relationship board since it bears so many characteristics in common with the latter? Is it unhealthy even to think of it as a relationship? The board I find saddest here is the 'staying' board and no doubt that has to do with the fact that her age and frailty influences me to feel that I cannot NC my mom. Well, long rant but just to say I feel it with you. Don't let anybody tell you that emotional abuse is somehow 'lesser than' any other kind of abuse. It is not a meaningful comparison. I wish you well in your healing.

[steelwork]

Oh wow, khibomsis, that is heartbreaking. And yes, it's all such a muddled crapshoot, I agree.

My nephew and niece were both adopted at 5 months (6 years apart). My sister is a wonderful parent--especially with babies. I really believe that. She is tremendously loving. She's the person who nurtured me the most when I was growing up, and I can thank her for so much that was positive in my life.

Her son is a happy, healthy guy now. 26 years old. Living life, supporting himself. Her daughter, though, has diagnoses of BPD and severe anxiety. Why? There's no why. It just is, and must be dealt with.

Bless you for fostering.

One good parent can save you. Yes.

I guess it validates me to think that it stops somewhere so the fact that it doesn't stop is huge. I am hoping this is a breakthrough crisis for me. It has brought me to a point where I am dealing with emotional incest seriously. At last. Emotional abuse is so hard because it slips. It is hard to define, hard to track -especially when it is a family culture and therefore the norm - and hard to end. Emotional incest in a BPD family two big uncertainties. Kind of like a twilight zone in a twilight zone I don't even know where I belong. Should it be on the parent board or on the relationship board since it bears so many characteristics in common with the latter? Is it unhealthy even to think of it as a relationship?

Oh, I don't know. It bleeds all over the place, right? I think this is as good a place to talk about it as any, if you feel like it.

I'm not really sure what emotional incest is. Can you explain? Why do you think that's what you're dealing with?

The board I find saddest here is the 'staying' board and no doubt that has to do with the fact that her age and frailty influences me to feel that I cannot NC my mom.

I'm with you. It's agony sometimes dealing with my mother, knowing that there will be no growth, but it's too late for NC. Maybe I'll go post about it on the parents/siblings/inlaws board.

 to you too, khibomsis. I'm pulling for you. Thank you.

[Driver]

driver: I hesitate to say this, because I certainly am glad not to have been physically or sexually abused, but I'm not entirely sure emotional abuse is less damaging. That's what the experts say, anyhow: it can actually be more damaging in some ways, because it's harder to understand and it goes unnoticed, often for a lifetime.

And apparently this attachment stuff is a big deal. So much happened before I was 3 to interrupt that attachment. And my mother, being who she is, can't have been in any shape to really bond with us anyhow.

I totally sympathize. And believe me when I say that I suffered in my childhood too, I was abandoned too and probably have the same issues as all of us here, yet luckily haven't turned BPD. I guess that at some point in our lives we might have met the right people or might have experienced some positive things despite all the negativity which didn't allow BPD to develop and which allowed us to grow up with our emotions although they may have been severely tested during our childhood. Maybe we were close to the threshold of becoming BPD and in the end we luckily haven't gone beyond that crucial threshold. Maybe the fact that our childhood was difficult strengthened us in some way, and weakened us when it comes to abandonment/co-dependance issues.

What I have also read is that pwBPD have suffered traumas not only during their childhood, but also before birth and when they were just babies (beaten, frequently abandoned, and all the awful things that I just can't imagine which probably gave them the feeling that they've been rejected all their life, that nobody really loves them and despite all that they search this perfect mother-love that they probably won't ever find.)

On a side note, steelwork, I gotta tell you something:


hug  

[steelwork]

On a side note, steelwork, I gotta tell you something:


hug  

 

Haha driver, I never use emojis anywhere but here.

[khibomsis]

Thank you steelwork, the validation means the world to me! I don't know what I would do without this board. Guess I should not let this 'what board' dilemma hold me back and just start a thread somewhere. Maybe there should be a 'bleeding' board? On which note, I am noticing how many of us are on several boards simultaneously, which leads me to think that the way I have decided to conceptualize it - as in BPD being a  family affliction - probably makes a lot of sense. Would not be surprised if uBPD families predispose us to co-dependence which in turn predisposes us to BPD partners. Not everyone of course, but many.

You are lucky indeed to have your sister. And I am so glad to hear that your nephew is OK! Chronic anxiety afflicts all of us, it is a consequence of always wondering when the next rage is coming. Has your niece accepted diagnosis and treatment? Those are normally the big stumbling blocks for adult BPD's so if she is that far that is progress.

We are not doing too badly, BPD niece (15) is the only out of 8 although three are still too small to tell. We have a diagnosed bipolar and two depressions/PTSD which is heartbreaking since they are all still in their teens and early twenties. But all that is treatable and they are all trying really hard. I was lucky to find a therapist who was willing to diagnose the BPD niece, because most refuse to diagnose an adolescent. It has since been confirmed by another therapist and a psychiatrist, so the family is at least taking it seriously. Not enough to stop abusing but niece is getting band-aid and a plaster.

Yes, that thing about mothers who cannot be lived with and who refuse to change is its own kind of hell.

Emotional incest: https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

It rang every single bell for me. It was such a relief to finally have a narrative that tied it all together.

Emotional abuse is neither better nor worse, that is kind of like asking whether the devil is worse than the deep blue sea. The question simply does not compute for me. What is special about emotional abuse is that it is so hidden. If my mom tied me up and whipped me three times a day and then forced me to watch while she whipped my niece, something would be done. Social services would be called or at the very least the family would lose the respect of the community which in a small town is everything.

Last night I had a nightmare which I have not had for years, I dreamt that I was in trouble and in need of help but though I tried to shout no voice would come out. I tried to gesture and sign language to the helping professionals who were around but they didn't get it and my voice would not come out. I prayed and tried harder and eventually I screamed so loud I woke myself and my spouse up. So she hugged me and we went back to sleep. But that is emotional abuse for you. It is silenced so much that victims cannot even find their voices. No it is not preferable to physical or financial abuse and in fact the three are often co-morbid. But when it stands alone it is dangerous. My uNBPD mom never hit us but once. That was because she has devoted her life  to not being the violent sadistic ass that my uNBPD grandfather was. For that very reason she will never see the abuse she perpetrates.

Well, long again, thanks for listening and on your thread too!

Driver, what does a woman have to do to get a hug around here? I am jealous of steelwork! I guess let me lead by example. Here's one for each of you:      

emojifest

[Driver]

Driver, what does a woman have to do to get a hug around here? I am jealous of steelwork! I guess let me lead by example. Here's one for each of you:      

emojifest

Well, not much, just come into my arms and I'll give you a hug. 

[khibomsis]