How to support my gd and son in this situation?

[mother in law]

I don't know the right forum to post this in but here goes another bit of advice needed. When I picked up my gd from school last week I had a feeling that from her demeanour something was wrong. I let it go until I heard her talking to her dad on the phone and picked up that she was worried about the arrangements for the coming weekend. I asked her if she would like me to talk to daddy, to which she said yes and I promptly did. It would seem her mother was having a major meltdown all week about having to fill out forms to take my gd out of the country (gd is on the airport watch and her mother has to get the father's permission and pay a major deposit of money to the court system which she forfeits if gd does not return). Consequently she would not answer the phone to her ex-husband (my son). We sorted the problem but I advised my son it was time to have a chat to my gd and reassure her which he did in the weekend. It would seem my ex dil has spent the week wishing that I and my son would die and verbalising this in a very loud and angry voice while throwing things and hitting walls. My gd spoke a lot about mummy's lies and anger. My son is very good at talking to her, he said if she wanted to live with him that is fine he would welcome it and did she want to talk to someone about this but she refused. She (gd) said please don't tell anyone except me. I have advised him to keep talking to her and allowing her to get it out verbally so she too does not start throwing things and having pent up rage. Any more advice? All would be welcome.

The good news is  when I heard the news I was sad for my gd but not for me, it no longer hurts me. As you say I cannot change her only myself. I am very sorry she is this disordered and as I once said to her when pleading with her to get help, she is going to have a very unhappy life if she continues being angry with the world. So I am sad about that. I think anyone of us in this family talking to her would escalate the problem. Despite all the help we have given her (and it is lots-financially, emotionally and physically-especially from me) she sees us and particularly me as the problem, probably cause I am one of the few who has ever challenged her and actually saw it was a personality disorder years ago (no one believed me) so she probably perceives me as a threat.

Sorry this is so long, but all advice on how to support my gd and son through this would be gratefully received.

[jdtm]

Sorry this is so long, but all advice on how to support my gd and son through this would be gratefully received.

We have lived about which you write - some circumstances different but the situation the same.  Our son has now been divorced from his ex-wife for several years after she left him and abandoned her two children.  There's not much you can do but ... .

One thing we did which was correct was to never speak of the mother in any negative way.  Rarely we brought her name up but occasionally, we would ask "how is your mother?"; after all, she is the only mother our grandchildren have.  We wanted our home to be a refuge from yelling and negativity and questioning and uneasiness - in other words, a safe and consistent and calm and predicable place.

I'm wondering about counseling for your granddaughter - we did not have any and when the teenaged years hit, we paid "big time".  There are "ways" to disguise counseling - art or music therapy are two examples; perhaps some form of week-day church activities.  Our elder grandchild is just beginning to "talk" about the horrors of her childhood and she is now a young adult.  I really do not know if "talking" earlier would have been a good or bad thing; but, I expect some day we will be "told".  I have no real answer here.

Also, our son documented every negative fact about our ex-dil - events, time, place, exact words (and this included his children as well as the ex-wife) so he had "proof" of her poor parenting (she did not challenge him for custody - she didn't want them anyway but revenge would have been her play.

Our ex-dil also disliked me with a passion - she knew that I "knew" too much.  But, as far as your granddaughter is concerned, maybe her grandparents need to be the "calm" and "predictable" ones.  When she wants/needs to talk, she will; but could it be possible that when she is with you , she wants to "forget" and enjoy peaceful and predictable times, without the distress of her home life.  I know our younger grandchild felt this way - frankly, sometimes they just need a break.  So sorry ... .

[GeekyGirl]

It is sad, and I can only imagine the pain you're feeling as a grandmother. jdtm asked a great question: is your granddaughter in therapy, or is your son open to that idea? That can be a safe place for her to talk about these feelings with someone who can look at things objectively and help her develop coping strategies. It would probably help your son as well.

You might also be interested in Radical Acceptance (Radical Acceptance for family members), which can help you process what's going on and deal with your own feelings about the situation.

[mother in law]

Thank you for your replies, this week is apparently shaping up to be as bad as last week. Refusing to answer the phone, yelling on the phone at my son when he was trying to negotiate holiday time. When will it ever end? Probably never you all say! Jdtm you are right I think, I think my granddaughter regards here and her dads place as a safe haven. She is involved in music and no she is not doing therapy. I have suggested it but she seems to trust her dad and talk to him. I may suggest he sees a therapist on her behalf so he can learn the coping mechanisms to teach her. She had been offered counselling but was not interested at this stage. I think she is very embarrassed by her mothers behaviour. We try to do fun family time with her so she has some respite. I will look into your other suggestions also. I also have to add_and don't be offended by this we do not live in America and therapy is not considered the norm here, so convincing people to do it is often an up hill battle, however I do think it is needed in this case

[Suzn]

Thank you for your replies, this week is apparently shaping up to be as bad as last week. Refusing to answer the phone, yelling on the phone at my son when he was trying to negotiate holiday time. When will it ever end?

Setting boundaries can help. 

Maybe better to only correspond via email when things get out of hand over the phone? How does your son handle being yelled at over the phone? Would your son be interested in becoming a member so he can learn some of the communication skills that may help improve their conversations?

She had been offered counselling but was not interested at this stage. I think she is very embarrassed by her mothers behaviour.

This is very sad. Do I understand this correctly, that your 10 yr old granddaughter was asked if she wanted therapy?

[mother in law]

Yes she was asked if she wanted therapy, I probably wouldn't have given her a choice. I don't think the words therapy were used but talk to someone was probably the phrase used. Her father is very good at communicating with her and to some extent I can see his rationalisation of keeping the weekend with him as normal kids fun days with lots of fun and outdoor activities with friends so she has respite from the chaos. I think I will print off some information about boundaries for him and talk to him about her coping mechanisms. It is a start I guess. Other suggestions will be gratefully received.

[GeekyGirl]

I think I will print off some information about boundaries for him and talk to him about her coping mechanisms. It is a start I guess. Other suggestions will be gratefully received.

I agree--that's a good start.  I'd gently broach the subject again with your son about therapy and, as you said, not giving her the choice to go. She may feel that in going to a therapist or counselor that she's being disloyal to her mother, which is a tough thing for a 10 year old. She wants her mother to be healthy. She wants to be loyal to her mother so her mother sees her as obedient and good. My heart goes out to her. 

Suzn asked a good question--would your son be open to joining this site or seeking some counseling for himself? He needs support too.

[mother in law]

Well it is 4 Weeks since I wrote the initial post and the good news is that at this stage my gd is much improved and coping very well. There has been another episode of compete melt down/disregulation from her mother in a very public place. She apparently yelled at my son threw something at him and threatened to take my gd home and not do the swap over. I asked my gd when she told me about it of it was scary, she said yes but she told her mother that she would not go with her as it was her time with daddy. I was proud of her for quietly creating creating her own boundaries. Tonight at our house when asked if she wanted to ring mummy, she said no mummy asks too many questions and she doesn't want to answer them. So she is learning at a very early age how she can control the situations that arise. Another lesson for us  all, when I asked her why daddy is allowed to tell me some of the bad stuff she said cause I don't say mean things about mummy to her. So  important.May this improve continue.