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Author Topic: “Thanks for ruining everything as always.”  (Read 832 times)
Fulbright87

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What is your sexual orientation: Bisexual
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Living together but broken
Posts: 5


« on: July 13, 2023, 02:07:31 AM »

Hey again, all. Follow up topic seeking advice after the initial one I posted a few days ago (“Desperate and Feeling Alone” if you want more context to the relationship at large).

My partner tells me consistently how I ruin their life through stupidity. This is justified by calling my actions stupid (while still using always statements). For example this evening they were complaining about a scent due to sensory issues. I offered to use a room spray as a means to help and did so near our window unit so that it would spread throughout the room with a single application. This opens the floodgates on a rage of how unhelpful I am, questions of how my brain works and that I am a life ruiner. I am then reminded that I cannot be trusted to do anything because I always find a way to screw it up in a way that hurts her even when I am “being nice.” The follow up is that in the midst of all of this I start to show signs of being displeased at being called stupid in any capacity. This in turn is taken as an invitation to call me indignant and disrespectful.

I respond by saying that while she has the right to be upset at the actions, that doesn’t extend into insulting and belittling me just because she’s feeling that way. That doesn’t go over well and soon I am being told that old parts of me must be manifesting to hurt her all the time to gain some sick satisfaction at the suffering she experiences. That she’s scared of asking for anything because of how incompetent I am (which I find myself bitterly amused about due to the fact that I take care of all household chores and work related aspects due to her handicaps). Then when trying to reiterate that I am tired and will not engage with a conversation that involves insults rather than addressing and solving problems she tells me that I have degraded her soul to this point, that I have diminished her connection with herself and that again, I deserve things that I would not dare utter back to her.

For those of you with experience, what can I do in these situations? What can be done to avoid them in the first place? How can I safely establish a boundary without activating the immediate thought that I am abandoning her when trying to exit a cyclical argument? How can I exit the cycle in the first place? Is there anything that can be said to calm my partner down, then address the pain she inflicts at a later time? My head’s spinning as always and I just want to get a grasp of what may have worked for each of you in the past or is a process that seems to be getting results in the present. It’s scary to be reduced to the image of a bumbling idiot at the drop of a pin! Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I wish you all well.
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yellowbutterfly
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: DIVORCED and in recovery from PTSD
Posts: 200



« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2023, 08:48:36 AM »

First, you're not a bumbling idiot. I had a similar situation where my xBPDh went from disliking a candle scent to completely attacking me with projection and rages. Sadly, this is all too common (maybe not a candle being used as the trigger) but a disordred pattern.

I could not find a way to dispel the circular arguments and it reduced me to a shell of a person. I'm sure others, especially the more sage members, would have helpful thoughts on your questions. What I want to impart and emphasize for you is: you are not disordered and are not the cause nor deserve to be treated as such.

Take some time to do something for yourself (walking, working out, reading, lunch solo...whatever would feel good). This might give you some redirection and renew your confidence in yourself and help you think about ways in communicating with your partner which works for both of you.
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kells76
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2023, 10:16:25 AM »

Hi again Fulbright87, you're getting some good support from yellowbutterfly. It's such a gift to have this group to come to and to have others say "I get it... I REALLY get it."

...what can I do in these situations? What can be done to avoid them in the first place? How can I safely establish a boundary without activating the immediate thought that I am abandoning her when trying to exit a cyclical argument? How can I exit the cycle in the first place? Is there anything that can be said to calm my partner down, then address the pain she inflicts at a later time? ...

Important questions to ask. It's great that you are open to trying different approaches that are 100% under your control.

A couple of points in your situation did actually stand out to me as opportunities to try something different:

My partner tells me consistently how I ruin their life through stupidity. This is justified by calling my actions stupid (while still using always statements). For example this evening they were complaining about a scent due to sensory issues. I offered to use a room spray as a means to help and did so near our window unit so that it would spread throughout the room with a single application. This opens the floodgates on a rage of how unhelpful I am, questions of how my brain works and that I am a life ruiner. I am then reminded that I cannot be trusted to do anything because I always find a way to screw it up in a way that hurts her even when I am “being nice.” The follow up is that in the midst of all of this I start to show signs of being displeased at being called stupid in any capacity. This in turn is taken as an invitation to call me indignant and disrespectful.

pwBPD process information, emotions, problems, etc, very differently from people without BPD. That means that "typical" approaches to problem-solving, listening, dialogue, conflict, etc, that would mostly work with a "mostly normal" person, generally either aren't effective with a pwBPD, or escalate the situation.

That's a key moment up there -- what happened right after your partner complained about something.

Was it pretty reflexive for you to try to fix it?

There's another option on the table at that pivot point, besides you taking responsibility to fix it. It could look like true validation (i.e. not validating what isn't valid, but finding something in your partner's experience where you can genuinely say "yes, that is how it is"): "Babe, those sensory issues really impact so much of your day... that sucks."

It might be worth considering not fixing things for your partner, but allowing your partner the opportunity to manage and be responsible instead. This may be uncomfortable for you.

Another key moment that stood out to me was this:

The follow up is that in the midst of all of this I start to show signs of being displeased at being called stupid in any capacity. This in turn is taken as an invitation to call me indignant and disrespectful.

I respond by saying that while she has the right to be upset at the actions, that doesn’t extend into insulting and belittling me just because she’s feeling that way. That doesn’t go over well and soon I am being told that old parts of me must be manifesting to hurt her all the time to gain some sick satisfaction at the suffering she experiences. That she’s scared of asking for anything because of how incompetent I am (which I find myself bitterly amused about due to the fact that I take care of all household chores and work related aspects due to her handicaps). Then when trying to reiterate that I am tired and will not engage with a conversation that involves insults rather than addressing and solving problems she tells me that I have degraded her soul to this point, that I have diminished her connection with herself and that again, I deserve things that I would not dare utter back to her.

Learning about true boundaries was a journey for me. The pwBPD in my life is my husband's kids' mom (her H has many NPD traits, so it's... a lot), and early on, we thought that if we just explained to them enough how their actions were hurting the kids -- if we could just get them to agree to some limits on their behaviors -- then everything would go better. Oh, how wrong we were! But at the time, it seemed so normal -- "let's just all agree together that they shouldn't be doing XYZ, because it's bad for the kids". In a "mostly normal" situation, that might've had some effect. Not when PD's are involved, though.

We need to recalibrate our understanding of boundaries. Boundaries aren't us telling the other person what isn't okay for them to do.

Boundaries are 100% under our control. Have we made a statement, request, demand, etc, that we don't have 100% control over? Then it isn't a true boundary.

Sometimes the difference can be subtle. It sounds so close to a boundary to tell someone "While you have every right to feel ABC, you don't get to take it out on me".

But do we have control over that?

Try this on for size instead:

"I understand you're upset right now. I am able to stay and talk when there's no insults between us. If I hear insults in a conversation, I will take a break elsewhere."

or

"I can stick around to talk when there's no belittling going on."

The followup would be acting out your boundary by staying to talk when there aren't insults or belittling, and having the strength to leave the room when she starts.

Notice that key difference -- it's not about how she can't or shouldn't insult or belittle you, as you can't control that. It is about what you will or won't accept in your life. You make statements about what you're up for, and you follow through when things happen in a conversation that you've decided aren't okay with you.

...

What do you think?
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Fulbright87

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What is your sexual orientation: Bisexual
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Living together but broken
Posts: 5


« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2023, 02:05:58 AM »

First, you're not a bumbling idiot. I had a similar situation where my xBPDh went from disliking a candle scent to completely attacking me with projection and rages. Sadly, this is all too common (maybe not a candle being used as the trigger) but a disordred pattern.

I could not find a way to dispel the circular arguments and it reduced me to a shell of a person. I'm sure others, especially the more sage members, would have helpful thoughts on your questions. What I want to impart and emphasize for you is: you are not disordered and are not the cause nor deserve to be treated as such.

Take some time to do something for yourself (walking, working out, reading, lunch solo...whatever would feel good). This might give you some redirection and renew your confidence in yourself and help you think about ways in communicating with your partner which works for both of you.

yellowbutterfly: Thank you so much for the kind words.  I am so sorry that your xBPDh treated you in such a manner.  It's painful to be the target of projection and rage, so I truly feel for you.  If ever you need someone to speak to who can sympathize, I'm always here!  We're all in this together and I hope you know that in just reaching out you've proven yourself a thoughtful, sweet person.  I'll try my best to keep from agreeing with my partner's words, it's hard after the verbal drubbing I just received (being called lying scum and a leech with no personality of my own, a dim candle that has to blow out the lives and spirits of others, etc.) but I'll try.  It's difficult to find time to do those things for myself when I have to place the house in order and be a caretaker for this person, but whenever I can I'll try and do what you've said.  Thank you again.

kells76: Your methods of reframing the matter are extremely insightful.  I appreciate them immensely.  It's hard to deny my initial reflex when it comes to helping immediately, though simply offering an empathetic statement while giving her agency to solve her own problems seems effective in keeping us responsible as individuals and circumventing any issues in the first place.  I often rob myself of that level of agency in establishing boundaries as well, giving the control over to my pwBPD rather than looking at my own options and stating them in a firm but compassionate way.

Unfortunately in attempting to use this she has said that my behaviors do not allow me to have the right to have boundaries.  Often I am told that if she is mad at me I am not allowed to "have my cake and eat it too."  This comes with comparisons to a glutton or a prince.  How do I reason with this?  How do I keep a level head in response to horrid attacks on my sense of self and character?  What can I practice to avoid defensiveness and deflection in some desperate attempt to make the barrage of horrible words and yelling stop?  How do I avoid yelling myself when pushed for hours on end with no release from the punishment of the argument?

How do I deal with gaslighting as well? I find in my anxious state that my story gets muddled, I get called a liar as I desperately scramble to gather my thoughts when I cannot take more than a second's pause.  What do I do with the allegations that I am the scum of the earth?  How do I address them in a way that is not defensive while not giving the appeasement that she often seeks?

I will admit tonight that my need to flee got the better of me.  In the heat of the moment I screamed that I needed to get away from her, that I needed to perhaps find a means of moving out because I could not live this way anymore.  The verbal abuse, the telling me I am crazy and that I may, in fact, be the sufferer of BPD, everything is just growing to be too much.  I feel a deep well of shame and just want to either improve or be free of this situation.  Any further help would be appreciated and wish you all the best.
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Trying123

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 34



« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2023, 06:23:51 AM »

Unfortunately in attempting to use this she has said that my behaviors do not allow me to have the right to have boundaries.  Often I am told that if she is mad at me I am not allowed to "have my cake and eat it too."  This comes with comparisons to a glutton or a prince.  How do I reason with this?  How do I keep a level head in response to horrid attacks on my sense of self and character?  What can I practice to avoid defensiveness and deflection in some desperate attempt to make the barrage of horrible words and yelling stop?  How do I avoid yelling myself when pushed for hours on end with no release from the punishment of the argument?

I think the attacks are the hardest part of dealing with a pwbpd. When my husband gets that way, I will go up to the bedroom and watch tv and relax. Sometimes he will follow me up there, then I use the grey rock method and be as uninteresting in my responses as possible. If I become too triggered, I will leave the house. If it’s earlier in the day and my kids are with me, I will leave the house immediately and go about my day with them. He can be as mad as he wants to be, he doesn’t have a right to take it out on me. I’m not perfect at this, I still get pulled in to more arguments than I care to be in, but I’m getting better.
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Fulbright87

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What is your sexual orientation: Bisexual
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Living together but broken
Posts: 5


« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2023, 12:21:28 PM »

I think the attacks are the hardest part of dealing with a pwbpd. When my husband gets that way, I will go up to the bedroom and watch tv and relax. Sometimes he will follow me up there, then I use the grey rock method and be as uninteresting in my responses as possible. If I become too triggered, I will leave the house. If it’s earlier in the day and my kids are with me, I will leave the house immediately and go about my day with them. He can be as mad as he wants to be, he doesn’t have a right to take it out on me. I’m not perfect at this, I still get pulled in to more arguments than I care to be in, but I’m getting better.

I agree, Trying123. The attacks are often what make me wonder about the near future. It often comes down to being called a life ruiner with no respect for my partner . While, as I’ve said in my other topic, I’m not perfect it can be incredibly difficult to stomach. Unfortunately the home we’re currently residing in doesn’t allow for many places of refuge and closing a door is a big trigger for her due to childhood traumas. So even if I wanted to create a space for myself to unwind the sheer stresses of everyday interaction and the intense contempt that seems to come with every talk it isn’t something that’s ever been in the cards. Leaving the house is an even bigger hurdle as she will physically bar me from doing so with her body, even entrapping me in rooms until something is “fixed “ in her eyes when there is no possible way to reason through the conflict at hand.

I’m terribly sorry that you’re still getting dragged into arguments, it’s my hope that with practice and support we can get to a place where stressful situations like that are a minimal part of our lives. Thanks for hearing me out on this and sharing, I’m here to do the same for you any time!
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Chosen
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2023, 10:22:30 PM »

pwBPDs are very, very good at finding your triggers. When they feel like blowing up at someone (I know I'm simplifying the matter here, I'm not trying to explain the science behind it), they know exactly what buttons they press so you'll get into an argument with them. Be it name calling, dramatising (picking a wrong spray= stupid and ruining lives). For my case personally, if I address the trigger and set bounaries by calling it out, it doesn't work. It makes things worse because he knows "this is what ticks her". So my way is (when I'm calm enough to do so, I fail a lot), much like how you deal with bullies, not cower and also not really show much emotion towards what they do. I would address the situation but would not address the name-calling.

For example if I did something wrong and he say I'm an idiot, every decision I make is stupid, etc. I would not address that. I would probably say "I guess I this wasn't a smart suggestion. I should think more carefully before taking action." (suppose it's the truth, in a loose sense of the word. I mean, we can always think smarter, right? So in a way I'm responding to him, but I'm just saying a pretty general statement.) I would not address whether or not I'm an idiot, whether "every" decision I make turns out bad, because if I respond to those, it would completely deter from our path of discussion, which would be exactly what the pwBPD wants.

Don't know if my suggestion helps, but basically my strategy is to drive the discussion away from the emotion and more onto the logic.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2023, 11:00:25 PM »

The problem a lot of folks have is that they stay too long in these belittling conversations. Doing that gives the pwBPD an opportunity to get amped up and even more aggressive and dysregulated.

It took a while for me to learn to do this, but now I exit immediately at the first moment of disrespect. Often my husband hasn’t even realized he has *gone there* and to be fair, he is on the milder side of BPD and really does not want to be unkind.

So I just get the heck out of his sight without making a big to do about it. Be less than kind or respectful, then you don’t have my presence before you.

For me, I’ve got a lot of things I do here on the property, and I can always do something like go outdoors to feed one of the animals or tend to the garden or whatever.

If that’s not available to you, you have to figure out some way where you can get private space, even if it means leaving the house. She will need to learn to self soothe. You can’t keep trying to provide that for her, no matter what trauma she experienced in the past.
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