Do outsiders think you are the one with a problem

[VeryFree]

Don't listen to the words. Look at the actions.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Violista]

That's true Waverider, I forgot to even think of that

He has told me twisted versions of what others have said in the past

For example he has gotten angry at me because I have mentioned something about not liking the way he treated me and have expressed that I think his mother sometimes agrees with him when he's wrong.

His response was that I'm so horrible to him and that his last ex-girlfriend loved his mother and loved the way he treated her.

But when I spoke to the ex-girlfriend, her opinions on both his mother's behaviour and his treatment of women were exactly the same as mine.

[bruceli]

Being with my dBPDh has led to situations whereby people who do not understand what is going on begin to start blaming me for having a problem and see my husband in a rather angelic light.

I am not naturally a control freak but many situations has led my husband to ask me to lock up all alcohol and money.  When entertaining guests, we are open enough to tell them that my husband has been diagnosed with an illness whereby I need to monitor his drink intake.  Sometimes we feel open enough to explain BPD and other times we simply state that he is struggling with a drinking problem. 

In regards to cash, it's rather annoying for me to always be the person to makes all purchases.  For instance - on shopping days I would rather be the person sitting in the truck (Like my husband does) having a rest instead of darting in and out of shops all day, because I have the cash and credit card.

When it comes to neighbors and what they may hear coming from our dwelling, at times they often hear what my husband has to say in a rage - that is "I hate you", "I want to leave you", "I hate you controlling my money", "you are such a b****", the list goes on.  Always the next day, in a quite voice, my husband will apologize and thank me profusely for ignoring his harsh words as well as taking actions to, at times, that result in saving his life.

Several weeks ago, my neighbors decided to corner my husband (when they saw that I had left to walk the dog) and tell him that they do not believe that he has BPD (even though they have admitted they know nothing about BPD) and that they believe I am the one with a mental problem!  They told him that they think I am a control freak and that they think that I abuse him!

Since then, my husbands health has deteriorated as even though he doesn't believe a word they say, he now feels uncomfortable answering the phone, getting the mail or walking around our property in case he is harassed by them!  I approached them last night (as my husband had asked me to tell them that their accusations are incorrect - as he is uncomfortable talking about his mental health).  They didn't believe me at all -surprisingly!

We have cut them off but does anybody else have similar experiences? 

Not only are we as partners/spouses etc living rather uncomfortable lives (often accused and abused as a result of black and white thinking) - but then there are the outsiders who don't understand but throw incredible accusations into the mix?

It's like dejavu... .However, in my particular case, it is DW herself who telss me this and not other people.  She states that even her T "says so."  When I ask her if I would be able to talk with these people about what they see so that they can help ME be a better person... .I am not allowed to speak with any of them... .hmmm... .I wonder why.

[eeyore]

That's true Waverider, I forgot to even think of that

He has told me twisted versions of what others have said in the past

For example he has gotten angry at me because I have mentioned something about not liking the way he treated me and have expressed that I think his mother sometimes agrees with him when he's wrong.

His response was that I'm so horrible to him and that his last ex-girlfriend loved his mother and loved the way he treated her.

But when I spoke to the ex-girlfriend, her opinions on both his mother's behaviour and his treatment of women were exactly the same as mine.

de·lu·sion  noun \di-ˈlü-zhən, dē-\

: a belief that is not true : a false idea

[ucmeicu2]

in my particular case, it is DW herself who telss me this and not other people.  She states that even her T "says so."  When I ask her if I would be able to talk with these people about what they see so that they can help ME be a better person... .I am not allowed to speak with any of them... .hmmm... .I wonder why.

this is serious stuff!  my xBPDgf took extraordinary measures to keep all of her "people" apart so we wouldn't talk.  the thing is, when people talk, they soon discovered that there are HUGE holes, ie lies/manipulations/etc, in the pwBPD's stories.  

i had an unplanned yet extremely serendipitous 2 hr conversation on the phone with one of her ex's who she was still "in touch with" and who she had told me repeatedly was "a psychotic stalker".  i just happened to pick up the phone when he called and she wasn't there.  the things we pieced together ranged from amusing to downright horrifying about her lies and how mentally ill she was.  he was told "i" was a stalker.  and he had been invited to move to her state and co-habitate w/her.  all this while she and i were together.   

she painted me black to almost every person she had any contact with, all the while telling me to my face that she was telling them how wonderful i was and how happy we were together and that she'd found her soulmate.  blah blah.  i'll never be able to forget, for example, the sound of her father's voice when i casually mentioned to him that she had proposed to me and given me a ring a couple weeks prior.  he didn't even know we had been dating. for a year!

i will NEVER sweep those kinds of     's under the rug again.  ever.

sorry i just noticed that this is the 'staying/improving' board.  how can we improve this set-up?  i guess by refusing to let them build walls, keep secrets, and isolate you from the others in their life.  i guess i believed everything she said to me (why wouldn't i? <shrug> and was content to live in a cocoon with her.  my bad.

icu2

[waverider]

sorry i just noticed that this is the 'staying/improving' board.  how can we improve this set-up?  i guess by refusing to let them build walls, keep secrets, and isolate you from the others in their life.  i guess i believed everything she said to me (why wouldn't i? <shrug> and was content to live in a cocoon with her.  my bad.

icu2

I choose neither to believe nor disbelief, but rather treat everything as interesting. Constant suspicion and trying to find the truth can eat you up. Even if you do discover the absolute truth (unlikely) then you are probably not likely to completely believe it.

These distorted truths are often cut and paste jobs so there is always enough of the real truth in there that they can prove bits of it. The issue is with the way it is reassembled to give a completely different meaning.

It will probably always frustrate you, but if you believe in yourself and don't lean on them for validation it is possible to avoid it building into resentment. Th hard part is staying interested in what they have to say without switching off.

You will see this happen in others around them.

They attach to someone>paint them white, they're better than you>tell great stories(sometimes sob stories about you)>These become excessive and fanciful> people stop listening>abandonment> stories get exaggerated more in an attempt to convince> people detach more>painted black in retaliation for withdrawing validation>focus comes back to you.

This cycle is predictable and so you can learn to just not get on that ride

[Chosen]

Yikes.  I personally feel that it's completely out of line for your neighbours to say what they said. 

Unfortunately, BPD has been called a "crazy-making" disorder- it makes the people around the pwBPD look crazy!  This is particularly true of high functioning pwBPDs.  I read that if you want to know who in a room has BPD?  It's the one with the crazy spouse.  Sad but true.

I think it's useless trying to explain to others about BPD.  It's not like they will experience it in the same way as you do.  As the closest person, you will likely be painted black the most.  Whether in your face or to other people, you may not know, but other people usually get false ideas from what they see.  And somehow pwBPDs are usually very bright people and present themselves as very put-together, saintly people... .I feel for you, really.

[waverider]

pwBPD have an uncanny knack of "innocently" drawing third parties into issues, without seeming to instigate it.

Just they way it is

[Highlander]

Hi,

I don't think it's that they resent having to help neighbors in the midst of a crisis. It's that once they have helped, they adopt a "Rescuer" stance. They are superior because they saved you, they have all the answers if you would only listen to them, etc. Now that they are in this role (see the Karpman Triangle), they want more control over your situation. As they become more aggressive about taking control, they move into a Persecutor role, in which they begin to abuse you.

Thanks SweetCharlotte,

You've reminded me about the Karpman Triangle.  I remember my T pointing that out when I was getting attacks from husbands FOO years back and forgot all about it.

It also helps us to understand and look out for problems in others.  Not diagnose them but to understand psychology much more.  My neighbor can be rather extroverted.  My husband is an introvert.   This all started to peak when my neighbors close friend got a girlfriend and had much less time for him.   As a result, it seems like my neighbor wanted to replace this hole in his life by wanting more time with my husband. 

Hubbie's reaction was to retreat, asking me to deflect phone calls & house calls, but they didn't stop, just intensified.  When I said phone back in a week, he would phone the following day!  Because husband feared he might rage at my neighbor, he asked me have a little word to him regarding the boundaries we have set in our own lives as a result of hubbies BPD & introversion. 

I did so so kindly and was proud of the way I spoke to him - calmly & respectfully.  I asked instead of standing at our 6 foot high fence, looking over it into our yard (we had recently put up the fence to block out the outside world from peering in so that husband can spend time in the garden uninterrupted) and calling out my husbands name until one of us appeared from inside the house, could he please phone instead and arrange a time to meet up with my husband?  I explained that there were days that my husband simply did not want company.  I told him that this was my husbands wishes and that as he finds it difficult to speak about his health, he has asked me to tell you? But it didn't stop, he continued to do so.

We began to see that either my neighbor either disrespected me or could not be given directions from woman.  Additionally, we had also observed some narcissistic traits in him which started to make sense to us.  This may have been when he began concocting a story in his own mind about what he thought was going on over here and convincing his wife that it was real. 

Even though him and my husband would probably have spent less than 2 hours with each other in their lives, when my husband told him he was incorrect about everything and his response to my husband was that my husband knew nothing, and he knew better - the narcissism really shone out.

They are religious and we are not, but it is not something that is brought up much by them.  However, this did come up when he was trying to prove what he thought was going on.  He said that he'd studied psychology for 14 years, which is apparently why he knew more about it than us & that he hadn't heard of BPD so therefore it mustn't exist!  When asked where he'd apparently studied - he said through his church! 

There is no doubt that he wanted to rescue my husband in some way. 

In the past, we have had problems with other people interfering in our lives and attacking me.  The pressure has led my husband to self harm and subsequently hospitalized.  What has helped us get through this situation is not only his DBT therapy but for my husband & I to stand back and assess the situation for what it really is.  In the past we both would have been hurt but by their words, however, by opening our world up to psychology, it simplifies other peoples behaviors towards us.

We may have sat back and said to each other "Why is the neighbor not listening to me?... .Do you think he could be a misogynist?... .Possibly".  But, unlike them, we never marched over there telling them our theories.

This website also helps greatly as I can connect with other like-minded people.  As a result, even though my husband & I debriefed after the event with my neighbors, if I feel like I still need to talk about it, I do not need to do so with him. 

I can proudly say that this time, my husband did not self harm as a result of this situation, whereby a year ago, there was a 100% chance that he would have.

I have a question for Highlander and others--have any of you ever spoken to someone else who was truly hurt by your ex/soBPD?

Thanks for your question goldylamont

At the very beginning of my relationship with my husband, his ex-girlfriend pulled me aside and told me that my husband had a rather childish approach when it came to arguments.  At the time, I thought she may have been trying to keep us apart and of course, like many others, we had a beautiful honeymoon period where I was very much respected by my husband for months - then arguments and abuse towards me began & the words from the ex started springing into my head.

During the really hard times, I often think if I should have taken her words and run for the hills.  But I am glad I didn't as my husband really is the most amazing person.

My husband has a 10 year old daughter to another relationship that did not work for him more than a few months.  She lives many miles away but since I became part of his life, I have ensured that she has not had one birthday or christmas without a present and phone call from dad.  This may not seem like much but the consistency is there, even if I meant I did all the shopping while I asked my husband to sign the card from a hospital bed before I posted the parcel off to her.

The results of this consistency have been rewarding.  Before I met him, on the odd meeting with his daughter the mother had addressed my husband to his daughter by his first name 'Tim', and not ':)ad'.  One year, we cried when on the phone to Dad, she called him ':)ad' - she had obviously been told by her mother that Tim was indeed ':)ad'.

My husband would love to phone her more often - not just twice a year -birthday and Christmas, however, we have discussed his concerns as to when his health takes a backward slide and he is often months from wanting (or having the ability) to talk to anyone.  His fear is that she will experience feelings of abandonment.

Because my husband is not in her life regularly and not a carer (just meets her in the park every couple of years and talks on the phone twice a year), we have had no reason to alarm her mother as to his illness.  However, I recently read that (although it can be rarer than in most cases), that BPD can be genetic, even without environmental influences.

This set out alarm bells for us!  Our solution is that husband has asked me to get in touch with her mother and inform her of his diagnosis.  We will buy her a book and that way she can look out for signs in his daughter.  It can also help the mother to assist his daughter when Daddy hasn't called for a while (so that Mum is not unknowingly saying things about Daddy to make daughter believe she is being abandoned).

It will be interesting to see if husbands ex begins to start putting the pieces together during our chats about his condition... .Very interesting indeed!

It's like dejavu... .However, in my particular case, it is DW herself who telss me this and not other people.  She states that even her T "says so."  When I ask her if I would be able to talk with these people about what they see so that they can help ME be a better person... .I am not allowed to speak with any of them... .hmmm... .I wonder why.

Hi bruceli,

Re: Dejavu.

I couldn't agree more.  It is rather eerie reading posts on this sight as well as literature on BPD.  At times I have overwhelming feelings of dejavu.  When normally in life I experience dejavu, it last for a few seconds and is over, but at times when reading literature about BPD, it seems that the feeling, can at times, never stop!

Yikes.  I personally feel that it's completely out of line for your neighbours to say what they said. 

Unfortunately, BPD has been called a "crazy-making" disorder- it makes the people around the pwBPD look crazy!  This is particularly true of high functioning pwBPDs.  I read that if you want to know who in a room has BPD?  It's the one with the crazy spouse.  Sad but true.

I think it's useless trying to explain to others about BPD.  It's not like they will experience it in the same way as you do.  As the closest person, you will likely be painted black the most.  Whether in your face or to other people, you may not know, but other people usually get false ideas from what they see.  And somehow pwBPDs are usually very bright people and present themselves as very put-together, saintly people... .I feel for you, really.

Hi Chosen,

Your post (re: you want to know in a room who has BPD) made me laugh so much that even my husband found it hilarious.

I wish I knew where you read that?   It may be handy in the future to refer to it in literature instead of talking to brick walls!

I am the first to admit that I have changed since I met my husband.  I am very fidgety, on edge most of the time and my anxieties now soar through the roof.  In the past month, I have finally relented and asked my doctor to begin me on a dose of anti-anxiety pills.  As much as this is so, my husband & I are still totally baffled as to the conclusion drawn by these neighbors as I have always been a beautiful person around them.

Yes.  It was completely out of line for them to make such comments and as I discussed earlier on in this post - the neighbor in question believes he is knowledgeable in psychology, yet he waited until he saw me leave to walk the dog one day (yes.  neighbor, admitted to my husband that that is what he did) for him to phone hubbie first thing in the morning and to raise his attempted suicide with him, and attempting to make him doubt his wife.  Doing this to anyone who is vulnerable BPD or not, could not be a more dangerous  approach!

[goldylamont]

Yikes.  I personally feel that it's completely out of line for your neighbours to say what they said. 

Unfortunately, BPD has been called a "crazy-making" disorder- it makes the people around the pwBPD look crazy!  This is particularly true of high functioning pwBPDs.  I read that if you want to know who in a room has BPD?  It's the one with the crazy spouse.  Sad but true.

, yes Chosen that is hilarious thanks for making me laugh! 

And Highlander, thanks for the response to my question. Your husband is lucky to have such a good woman as you to help foster a r/s with his daughter, it made me feel good reading that  I do think it's important though to look at this whole situation with the neighbors through a different lens--b/c here's what i'm seeing. i see the neighbors who think that you are 'crazy' and they want to protect your husband from being a victim of you. and also the direct opposite is true, you see the neighbors as a little nutty and you want to protect your husband from being a victim from them. and you mention that this is not the first time that this has happened with people? one of the trickiest and hardest things for me to accept about my exBPD was how she could start these conspiracies with me, telling me negative things about others, thus i would be on her side and protective of her. but later finding out that simultaneously while telling me this, she was telling them that i was nutty--isn't it possible that your meddling neighbors are behaving this way because they've been given information about you by your husband that is alarming for them (even though it's not true)? and by the same token, isn't it possible that the information your husband is telling you about them is skewed, so that you are seeing them in more a negative light than need be? perhaps the neighbors, as imperfect as they are, are simply trying to do the best thing given what they know of the situation? i guess what i'm suggesting is that in the same way that you and your husband are bonding against the 'crazy' neighbors, is it possible that he did some bonding with them in the same way against you? which would pit you two against each other, and pit him squarely in the middle as the exalted victim? i understand each situation is different, but this is just the kind of drama my exBPD took joy in creating.

the title to this thread is ":)o outsiders think you are the one with a problem!" -- in this case i think we have to be careful of how we may be calling the neighbors crazy. we may just be falling for the same trap as they have.

[Highlander]

, yes Chosen that is hilarious thanks for making me laugh! 

And Highlander, thanks for the response to my question. Your husband is lucky to have such a good woman as you to help foster a r/s with his daughter, it made me feel good reading that  I do think it's important though to look at this whole situation with the neighbors through a different lens--b/c here's what i'm seeing. i see the neighbors who think that you are 'crazy' and they want to protect your husband from being a victim of you. and also the direct opposite is true, you see the neighbors as a little nutty and you want to protect your husband from being a victim from them. and you mention that this is not the first time that this has happened with people? one of the trickiest and hardest things for me to accept about my exBPD was how she could start these conspiracies with me, telling me negative things about others, thus i would be on her side and protective of her. but later finding out that simultaneously while telling me this, she was telling them that i was nutty--isn't it possible that your meddling neighbors are behaving this way because they've been given information about you by your husband that is alarming for them (even though it's not true)? and by the same token, isn't it possible that the information your husband is telling you about them is skewed, so that you are seeing them in more a negative light than need be? perhaps the neighbors, as imperfect as they are, are simply trying to do the best thing given what they know of the situation? i guess what i'm suggesting is that in the same way that you and your husband are bonding against the 'crazy' neighbors, is it possible that he did some bonding with them in the same way against you? which would pit you two against each other, and pit him squarely in the middle as the exalted victim? i understand each situation is different, but this is just the kind of drama my exBPD took joy in creating.

the title to this thread is ":)o outsiders think you are the one with a problem!" -- in this case i think we have to be careful of how we may be calling the neighbors crazy. we may just be falling for the same trap as they have.

Hi goldylamont,

Yes I can see why you have asked me to question whether or not I should believe that my neighbors are crazy?  I am aware that pwBPD do have the tendency to say things to people that would ultimately

"pit you two against each other, and pit him squarely in the middle as the exalted victim?".

This has happened in the past when hubbie was in a psychotic state for almost 7 weeks.  He was definitely telling his FOO things to make me appear like I had the problem.

I did accidentally say in one of these posts that dBPDh didn't lie, yet, in the past month, I caught him lying about misappropriating our funds as a result of an ebay addition as well as overdosing on pain killers.  When I approached him about it and before he knew I had proof, he flatly denied it, until he knew I had proof!

I must always be aware that he may be saying things that I am unaware of.

However, in this situation, I know he is telling the truth.  My reasons being that when I spoke to my neighbor the first time (the time that he just blurted out what he felt and didn't give me a chance to talk before walking away from me), he told me that the reason why he had come to such a conclusion was because of the clothes I wear & the way i carry myself.  He made out like I don't allow my husband to have money (when my husband has asked me not to give him money and said so in front of my neighbors wife once that that is his wishes not mine) & he said "I bet you don't even allow your husband to see the T on his own (totally untrue)!

I addition, he said his proof of me abusing my husband is that one day he had heard me 'scream' out my husbands name to come home and my husband did straight away.  My husband and I discussed this and it was when I had picked up a phone call for my husband and I began calling out his name (I had just seen him in the house but since then he had gone to get the mail and was caught up talking with my neighbor - I didn't know this) and like all spouses they just assume that they haven't heard and I called his name louder. There were so many outlandish reasons as to why he assumed I was the crazy one!

And don't forget, he did not allow me to speak and when I told him that I had just heard him out for ten minutes, would he let me speak, after he said "yes", I was unable to make out 3 words before he butted in and then walked away. 

But Yes.  There's was a chance that my husband may have said something to him and he did not want to tell me.

But then, my husband asked him to come around to our house to ask him to repeat everything he said to me.  I was there, but sat aside as the two of them sat by the fire.  My neighbor began to stretch the truth about what he said to me but after I told him that I had the whole conversation recorded on my mobile phone (I didn't-my only lie), but this lead my neighbor to backtrack & led him to began telling a more accurate version of events-this included his opinion of my dress sense being the reason as to why I am 'apparently' abusive.

My neighbor told my husband everything and (as mentioned in my previous post), my husband answered truthfully but my neighbor did not even believe my husband.  Such things like my neighbor saying that he doesn't believe hubbie has BPD & my husband saying well "yes. I do.  I have been diagnosed".  Well no neighbor says "that's not true".  And "I do not believe you are an alcoholic" says my neighbor.  My husband says "yes I am.  That is why I have asked for my wife to lock up all money, alcohol and meds".  Guess the reply from the neighbor?  "Not True".

I would have thought that during this time as my husband had asked for the conversation to be completely open, that if my husband had said anything untoward about me, in the past, away from my ears,  our neighbor would have brought it up by saying "You said this" or "You said that".  He didn't, he just babbled about his outlandish reasons as to what he believed as 'proof'.  Not one little comment from my neighbor to make him think that my husband had indicated to him that I was not even normal let alone crazy.

My neighbor also has three children (to a different marriage).  Two of which he doesn't speak to because he thinks they are crazy.  My neighbor has brought up 4 of his grandchildren.  Two of the eldest have absconded and are in government care.  The other two live at their house and are very young.  My neighbor's wife looks after them as her own children. His wife told me this once - that he doesn't spend time with the children and he does nothing with his days except tinker around outside, go hunting, hang with his mate (now with girlfriend)  & go to the pub.   In other words he is a very self-centred person which is another link, my husband and i believe to him having narcissistic traits.

He told us once that he tried to take the boy hunting.  He said he was enjoying himself so much that he was too loud in the bush.  Said he won't take him out again until he is older.  Wouldn't any father then say, so I'll take him trekking instead?  Not him because his son either has to do what he wants to do or nothing at all.

These are our additional reasons as to why we have concluded our neighbor as having problems.  They didn't mean much to us at the time.  The odd comment at home like "why doesn't he just go trekking with his son instead?" or "do you think he could be a misogynist?", but until our neighbor spat out his delusional story & did not listen to what I but most importantly, my husband was saying about his theories being wrong, we had no idea how delusional this human being really was.

Oh also.  Our T is also their T (small town) and without risking his professionalism, he has been nothing but supportive of the way both my husband & I have approached the situation.


I thankyou goldylamont for asking that question.  It needed to be asked in regards to the need to question if my dBPDh had indeed thrown a spanner in the works, however, there is nothing to suggest he has this time and I do believe him after all.




Then when I

[waverider]

BPD is just exaggerated to a disordered level human traits that many of us have, but we generally have control over these, usually just a few quirks remaining. Some people more than others.

Being around pwBPD even healthy people pick up these behaviors as they somehow seem less abnormal and more everyday. We adapt to our environment and loose our benchmarks.

Given BPD is more common, and hidden, than most think it is, it is not surprising that those who have strong latent tenancies slide into disorder when they start associating with full blown pwBPD. This is the reason many do join in the the triangulation behaviors as it appeals to their taboo "juicy gossip" black and white thinking, which they otherwise probably would not do.

Typically these people form a quick bond due to their common understanding but if they get too close their becomes interfering / control dramas, big clash then bond buddy is now painted the worst of black.

[Highlander]

BPD is just exaggerated to a disordered level human traits that many of us have, but we generally have control over these, usually just a few quirks remaining. Some people more than others.

Being around pwBPD even healthy people pick up these behaviors as they somehow seem less abnormal and more everyday. We adapt to our environment and loose our benchmarks.

Given BPD is more common, and hidden, than most think it is, it is not surprising that those who have strong latent tenancies slide into disorder when they start associating with full blown pwBPD. This is the reason many do join in the the triangulation behaviors as it appeals to their taboo "juicy gossip" black and white thinking, which they otherwise probably would not do.

Typically these people form a quick bond due to their common understanding but if they get too close their becomes interfering / control dramas, big clash then bond buddy is now painted the worst of black.

Hi Waverider,

Well I'd be a little worried about myself if I had resulted in raging at my neighbor instead of sitting so still and calm as I was being insulted so horribly.  As far as black and white thinking goes, I mentioned in my previous post notes that my neighbor spent no more than two hours with my husband alone in the year that we have known them.  I doubt there is anything he could pick up from my husband in that time.

If you're talking about black & white within me because my husband and I agree my neighbor has strong narcissistic traits?  Again, I doubt it.  Approaching people that you are not close friends with & spent little more than a few hours of your life with, with your own opinion about their mental health and marriage believing you have it perfectly correct is a rather narcissistic approach.  Once we tell him that he couldn't be further  from the truth about our own personal lives, he then says "No.  You are wrong and I am  correct", could not be called anything else but narcissistic. 

We are content to sit back and acknowledge between ourselves what happened in this situation without approaching him and accusing him of being ill.  We are just recognizing the situation for what it is so that neither of us can be hurt by his outlandish behavior.

[waverider]

We are content to sit back and acknowledge between ourselves what happened in this situation without approaching him and accusing him of being ill.  We are just recognizing the situation for what it is so that neither of us can be hurt by his outlandish behavior.

This is effectively disengaging which is the correct thing to do. Your neighbor has probably been listening to and following all the ups and downs that have been occurring in your household like their own soap opera on their doorstep. Hence by them making it part of their world it has bred a feeling of overbonding and involvement. Your world has become part of theirs.

Disengaging is good, but it is proving difficult for you to really do, hence this extensive thread on the subject.

The black and white thinking refers to your neighbors interpretations of what they see/hear. It causes people to pick a persecutor and a victim (one good, one bad)

To a narcissist the drama would either be taken as about them, or hold no interest whatsover. They simply would not care about issues between the two of you, they would'nt have interest in taking sides as they would not really care enough about either of you, your lives are irrelevent. pwBPD thrive in drama, and drama that goes on around them is a projection to take them away from their own issues. It is more likely your neighbor is displaying BPD traits rather than NPD if anything.

"No.  You are wrong and I am  correct" is a response that is black and white and is a component of either Disorder

[Highlander]

To a narcissist the drama would either be taken as about them, or hold no interest whatsover. They simply would not care about issues between the two of you, they would'nt have interest in taking sides as they would not really care enough about either of you, your lives are irrelevent. pwBPD thrive in drama, and drama that goes on around them is a projection to take them away from their own issues. It is more likely your neighbor is displaying BPD traits rather than NPD if anything.

"No.  You are wrong and I am  correct" is a response that is black and white and is a component of either Disorder

Thanks Waverider for clarifying that. 

I still have the tendency to lean towards the NPD side as this all started when the neighbor lost his buddy that he spent all his time with (10 hours a day - at least!) & clearly wanted my husband to replace this whole in his life.  When rejected by my husband, the drama's began.

[waverider]

You are probably best to continue a path of disengaging and let the neighbors stuff be their stuff and stay away from it, you have your own issues to deal with.

Personality traits and disorders are complicated. As you say, you dont really know them and so are ultimately not in any better position diagnose their issues than they are to diagnose yours.

Best just stay away if it causes a negative impact on your RS. If it is not a problem now it could become one.

[Highlander]

Thanks Waverider for your advise. 

Its been almost 2 weeks now since the personal attacks made on me by the neighbors and we are both feeling much better seeing they are no longer in our lives & never will be.  It was obviously a very stressful situation for me being verbally & emotionally attacked by outsiders which is why I very much appreciate being able rant a little on this post.  I see your angle about not engaging in diagnosing others and it makes a lot of sense.  Referring to psychology is not what I would do in every situation, however, in this case it has helped greatly.

I find that like many on this site that have friends/family/partners with undiagnosed BPD, there is a great sense of relief when they can refer and relate to others even though it is undiagnosed.  I see  nothing different to helping my husband deal with such an emotional situation that would have once led to self harm, to help him through this crises by simply asking him to read about NPD. 

Once he did, his mood became more uplifting as we then discussed that we were dealing with a person who has strong narcissistic traits.  Although it may not always help in all situations we experience through life, I believe that in this case, as my neighbor was acting rather improper, by referring to psychology, it has been uplifting & helpful for my husband.  He got through this stressful situation without taking it out on himself as he has done in the past when I was attacked by his FOO. 

Even though I do not claim to be an expert in PD's, I can not see where I said "I dont really know them" as I have studied them intently since I was first told my husband has BPD.  In addition, my sister was recently informed by her T that her husband most likely has NPD. It helped myself and my parents to read about NPD, BPD and PD's and everything became much clearer to us all.

[Turkish]

My BPD wife is really high functioning and knows how to not rage in public. She will even sometimes hold her emotions back but get me alone for a minute and let me have it, then go back to famliy, friends and coworkers like nothing happened. I can't shake how pissed it get, so I end up looking like the bad guy. This is what was the hardest thing for me to understand about BPD, if she can control it when she needs to, how can she claim she can not control it at all. So for years I didn't really buy it. One of the worst reactions I had was telling her she had "Bhit Personality Disorder"... .bad move.

I have accepted that is just the way it is and am coping much better now, although it may be to late to save our marriage.

This is EXACTLY how I feel and have felt. Like if she loved me, she would control it since she can in most situations, obviously. Her family knows of her volatility, and have openly sympathized with me on some occasions--- at least before she "came out" to them about her depression (I encouraged her to come clean about it, and it did help, because her mother was getting more and more upset about her episodes) but they are her family. Her extended family knows nothing about the details of this, but there is a lot of dysfunction there anyway. I think only her mother knows about the affair, no one else. I sent out a few feelers and that is the impression I get, so I keep my mouth shut to not cause more damage. Most of my friends know and are extremely supportive of me (thank God).

You know my story from another thread, so I won't bore with more details... .but lately, I recalled the Nathaniel Hawthorne story Young Goodman Brown and am still cycling back to self blame, like maybe most of it is in my head, as it possibly was for Brown: his worldview was turned upside down due to a moment of temptation and weakness, and he lived the rest of his life miserable, while those around him prospered. I went to a concert the other night with my friends; she, to a charity function. From her FB postings, it looked like she had a really good time. I was miserable. If I had told her this, she would respond "oh, why were you miserable?" Similar to when she asked about my therapy session last week, and I said I felt better, as he calmed me down. "Calmed you down from what?" REALLY? I feel like I'm gaslighting myself! She took the kids on a roadtrip for a few days. I thought it would be good to be alone, but I'm no better. At least I got our room (my room, she's still sleeping on the couch) painted a much better color; the tube re-caulked, and a safe installed. Now to go clean the house since she has disconnected from that the last month; whereas, before she was almost obsessively clean. Like a parallel person she has become. Weird.

[bombdiffuser]

Do outsiders think I'm the one with a problem? Try, our marriage counselor doesn't even think my dBPDw has BPD! Even tho 3 different doctors have diagnosed her with it. She has turned our sessions into dealing with my ADHD. Perhaps she is doing this on purpose to get us focusing on something that has a chance in changing. I still really like our T but even my wife thought it was funny and I immediatly thought of this thread.

Turkish, once again your story mirrors mine in many ways. My wife just got extremly nasty with me the other day for me "being miserable". This is after I had to skip a day of work to take care of kids becuase she was too hungover to function and I was just tired and annoyed with her. She also has not done any house work (except her laundry) in the month since I found out about the affair. And yeah she sleeps on couch too.

[Violista]

Yeah, his family is telling me to stay away because I provoke him to get angry, and apparently it's also somehow my fault that he does drugs, even though i've suggested to him that he shouldnt be doing them in his state.

They also think his last ex was horrible to him as well and caused him to become an angry person, but she tells a pretty different story

[hergestridge]

Ten years ago my wife managed to convince quite a few people that I was the one with the problem. Considering her personal history since then it's become difficult for her to make me look like the crazy one. But she still tries, it's part of the illness... .

[montanesa]

When things have been bad, I've heard comments like "You should take better care of him". This was after having been away for a weekend for work or for university exams. He hadn't eaten while I was gone.

The words hurt so, so much. I couldn't believe someone would say something like that. (Good ol' Spanish honesty, directness, and lack of filter!)