Upholding my independence

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

 

Its been day 3 of no facetime with my partner in an effort to sort through my feelings about having been in a relationship for 3 years where I thought one thing was happening when in reality something very different was happening.

Meanwhile all around me little fires have been blazing, with my ex, with my dad.

It occurred to me that I have not thought about my life independent of a man for 20 years. (I met my ex 20 years ago).

Why am I writing this on the undecided board?

Because it is clear to me that I can not resume my normal relationship with my partner until he files for divorce. Nothing's changed with him, meaning he still thinks he's my partner, he still thinks he's my daughter's stepdad, he still thinks he can get involved in my relationship with her father. I wish he could. I wish he could be that proper stepdad that I want to him be, but he can't, not while he's still married to his wife.

Now he tells me that because of all the footwork he's done that once he meets with the lawyer it should take him about two weeks to file his divorce. I believe him. However I also know that I can't go back to a normal relationship with him until this happens. Nothing will change how I feel about this situation except the situation itself resolving.

I mentioned that to him today and he said he was really pissed off at me and would contact me on 2/1/2016. Of course he didn't mean that because he's been calling and calling.

*****

This has to do with my values.

I pointed out to him that his bond with his wife is stronger then any bond we had and this really offended him and he totally denied it.

*****

If that were the case, if what he were saying were true, he could just snap his fingers, and get divorced instantly.

[unicorn2014]

 

Its been day 3 of no facetime with my partner in an effort to sort through my feelings about having been in a relationship for 3 years where I thought one thing was happening when in reality something very different was happening.

Meanwhile all around me little fires have been blazing, with my ex, with my dad.

It occurred to me that I have not thought about my life independent of a man for 20 years. (I met my ex 20 years ago).

Why am I writing this on the undecided board?

Because it is clear to me that I can not resume my normal relationship with my partner until he files for divorce. Nothing's changed with him, meaning he still thinks he's my partner, he still thinks he's my daughter's stepdad, he still thinks he can get involved in my relationship with her father. I wish he could. I wish he could be that proper stepdad that I want to him be, but he can't, not while he's still married to his wife.

Now he tells me that because of all the footwork he's done that once he meets with the lawyer it should take him about two weeks to file his divorce. I believe him. However I also know that I can't go back to a normal relationship with him until this happens. Nothing will change how I feel about this situation except the situation itself resolving.

I mentioned that to him today and he said he was really pissed off at me and would contact me on 2/1/2016. Of course he didn't mean that because he's been calling and calling.

*****

This has to do with my values.

I pointed out to him that his bond with his wife is stronger then any bond we had and this really offended him and he totally denied it.

*****

If that were the case, if what he were saying were true, he could just snap his fingers, and get divorced instantly.

[thisagain]

Hi Unicorn! 

Glad you've been able to hold the no-Facetime boundary. If he's still calling and trying to pick fights, I'd encourage you to think about expanding it to no-contact until he files. It's not ideal to surprise add extra "terms" to a boundary like that, but the idea was to stop the bickering and give you time to think. It sounds like there's still plenty of bickering.

Also keep thinking about what you want the relationship to look like after he files -- keeping in mind that it will be several months and could be years before a final divorce judgment. Do you think you'll be able to work on your side of things, and will that keep the level of conflict low during that time?

I was never strong enough to do this and am not sure it's sound advice, but I was always tempted to hold my ex to the crazy deadlines like that... .She would frequently say she wanted a break for a month, then change it to a week, then call the next day and want to come over, etc. And I would let her. I wonder if that behavior could be nipped in the bud by holding them to whatever deadline they set. Probably not, because they're just reacting to the emotions of the moment and not thinking about the consequences. But at least you'd have the peace for that period of time and he'd have no one to blame but himself.

[GaGrl]

I am hearing more strength and clarity in this position than in anything you have posted thus far. You are doing good work.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you this again for replying.

This is a long thread because this is a very important subject to me Independence.

I'm actually going to break this into two parts as I need to cover what happened yesterday and then what happened today.

I have an update and an expansion. I hope I am able to maintain the same clarity I put forth into the original post.

Today I got in an argument with my partner over a conversation I had with my ex, which I posted about on the coparenting board. I will be replying to Turkish reply over there after I am done with this one. You are welcome to join me over there.



My partner told me he's expecting a call back from the lawyer on Monday and he expects to have his divorce filed by the end of the month. His story is that he did file, and I do believe him, so if his divorce does indeed get filed by the end of the month that will prove that he was telling the truth and my belief in him was founded.

He suggested he not talk to me until 2/1/2016 and while he said that out of anger, I actually don't think that's a bad idea.

I was able to tell him that we will not be able to resume our normal relationship until he files because those were the terms I signed up for the relationship under, that he would file for divorce immediately.

So, I  need to tell on myself in regards to my codependency with my partner, since I'm not currently working a CODA program (I am working 3 other programs). I will study the codependency lesson again. Unfortunately I don't have any of my old CODA literature, but I could track down a member of my original home group of my teen and see if he can get me a book. I know I've been codependent since I was a teen, I know its not my fault. So clearly I need to make sure the reason I am staying with my partner is not a codependent one.

Yesterday I was actually the one to pick up the phone and call him, not because I missed him, or at least not consciously, but because the way he was posting on Facebook was bothering me.


I've gotten as far as writing down the positives and negatives in the relationship and one of the positives is that he is warm, when he is not dysregulated. He even admits himself that when he gets dysregulated it distorts his personality. He is an INTJ, if that means anything to anyone on this thread.

The way in which he was posting on Facebook was bothering me because he was posting as his public self on his private page, in my opinion, which he created solely for the purpose of interacting with me and my friends.

My partner is a musician, which means he has a stage presence. However I know him as a composer, I've never seen him play live, I only know his music. I was able to tell my partner that I don't really like his public self,  I prefer his private self, which he claims he only shares with me, and which I believe. I  wondered why he was posting in his public persona on his personal page he created to interact with me and my friends as opposed to his music page where he interacts with his friends of which I know nobody. He claimed he was acting reserved because he didn't want to set me off. I reminded him that I told him that I was not going no contact with him, I simply was taking a step back to process how I feel about the whole situation. I told him I would just prefer that he act his normal self, that will prevent my alarms from going off. He also changed his profile picture from a picture of his face that I took on one of his visits to an abstract photo he took, so that of course also unnerved me. There's some irony there, and some really complicated stuff for me, because I prefer the picture I took of him, yet I have conflicting feelings in retrospect about him having visited me at all under the conditions in which he visited me. I'm going to need some really help sorting that out. I hope I can get to a place of appreciating those experiences for what they were while needing things to be different in the future.

The biggest thing that triggered me though is he was reposting pictures of places we had gone together. I had to remember what this board told me, that it was ok for my partner to have his positive feelings about our past together, just like it was ok for me to feel betrayed because I found out that relationship was built on what others perceive to be deception. When he tells me he misses me its hard for me to respond because I feel like all his past experiences with me were based on what I now understand to be deception, although he claims it is not. Again, if he is able to quickly file his divorce that will definitely put more in the credibility side of his ledger.


My partner also gets that I need alone time as he is also an introvert, and he has a very dominant personality and sometimes its hard for me to hear myself think when I am connected to him. I will pick up the second part of this in a second reply so that people can read the first story and the second story.

___________________

[unicorn2014]

I'm going to tell my second story in a second reply and then I'll respond to you both with quotes.

________

Now what happened today was different.

______________________

When I first told my partner that  I needed to take some space over this four day weekend he wanted to know what the parameters were. He wanted to know if he could text me to say good morning and good night and I said that's fine, I'm not going no contact, I am just taking a step back. Now when I use the word just I recognize I am justifying, so I am aware I need  to study the lesson on JADE too.

It is funny to me how my coping issues are running into my undecided issues, and back again. I'm also posting on the coping board about my narcissistic father and the people over there told me I was JADEing with my father too.

So anyways to get back to what happened today, after my Al-Anon meeting I texted my partner to let him know I had a cold, and that I was not feeling the best, and that I was going to go home and clean up from breakfast, exercise. Then I called my ex to find out when he was leaving the house he was sitting as I was expecting my d15 home in 30 mins.

That's when the floodgates opened, with my ex. As it turns it out, he was going to work, and had left our d15 at the house. Well, I posted about that on the coparenting board which you're welcome to join me at.

So after I got in a big argument with my ex, whom I suspected was coming down (he's a self medicating bipolar sufferer with sociopathic traits), rather then text my partner and explain to him what happened (my ex forgot to call me and tell me he forgot he had to work today and had left our d15 at the house) I called him.

My last therapist encouraged me to use my partner to vent with about my ex. So following her advice, I did. She knows what the board knows about my partner.

What made things blow up with my partner is he wanted to call my ex and I told him I don't want him to do that until he gets divorced. I would love more then anything in the world for my partner to be a proper SD to my d15, but he can't do that until he's divorced.



At any rate, I'm kind of caught in the balance. On the one hand I need my partner to vent to my ex, according to my former therapist, on the other hand I'm trying to distance my self from my partner until he actually files.

I don't have a problem venting to my partner about my ex as long as I'm clear with him that I need him to file so that we can resume our normal activities.

In terms of what happens after he files in terms of visits, we will cross that bridge if we come to it.

[thisagain]

I have zero relevant experience to co-parenting, but you have my sympathy as you're juggling a lot of tough challenges 

Did you talk to him at all about the Facebook posts when you called him? I think this is another example of the little things that you would need to work on not reacting to, if you choose to continue the relationship... .PwBPD do a lot of weird, annoying, aggravating, triggering, hurtful, terrible things on a pretty regular basis. The Non has to learn how to pick their battles, not take things personally, and deal in a calm and gentle manner only with the things that really need to be addressed.

And pwBPD especially like to say exaggeratedly affectionate things that are totally inconsistent with their past speech and actions, because they're just reacting to their feelings in that moment which alternate between idealization and devaluation, as you know. It stings to hear them singing your praises and lavishing affection when they've done and said things that completely contradict that. Try to just stay in the middle and accept that he's just going to feel whatever he feels at that time.

Other than knowing the therapist recommended it, what do you think about venting to your partner about your ex? I'm inclined to disagree with it, especially during times like this. It sets up a weird drama triangle (you=victim, ex=persecutor, partner=wannabe rescuer), which is setting the stage for a quarrel over whether your partner should be involved by contacting your ex or not. And also contributes to the bad boundaries between what's his business and what's your business.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Unicorn!  

Glad you've been able to hold the no-Facetime boundary. If he's still calling and trying to pick fights, I'd encourage you to think about expanding it to no-contact until he files. It's not ideal to surprise add extra "terms" to a boundary like that, but the idea was to stop the bickering and give you time to think. It sounds like there's still plenty of bickering.

this again, thank you for your  response. I am actually the one who called my partner today rather then explain to him in a text what happened with my ex. The bickering today was over the fact that my partner wanted to call my ex and intervene and I told him I didn't want him to do that until he got divorced. He understood that and respected that but I was the one who was hot because of what my ex had done to me, told me to shut up, told me I was a semanticist, I wrote about that on the coparenting board.

Also keep thinking about what you want the relationship to look like after he files -- keeping in mind that it will be several months and could be years before a final divorce judgment. Do you think you'll be able to work on your side of things, and will that keep the level of conflict low during that time?

I certainly hope so. I actually have a funny story to tell about that. Earlier in our relationship I had asked my partner to buy us both copies of the high conflict couple so that we could work through it together. The problem was as I was reading it I got seriously triggered regarding my first marriage, which was high conflict. I might write about that on the coparenting board as well. As I stated my ex has sociopathic traits, which is a different disorder.

I was never strong enough to do this and am not sure it's sound advice, but I was always tempted to hold my ex to the crazy deadlines like that... .She would frequently say she wanted a break for a month, then change it to a week, then call the next day and want to come over, etc. And I would let her. I wonder if that behavior could be nipped in the bud by holding them to whatever deadline they set. Probably not, because they're just reacting to the emotions of the moment and not thinking about the consequences. But at least you'd have the peace for that period of time and he'd have no one to blame but himself.

I recognize you're describing what my partner said. I will directly quote his text. Perhaps I can post about this on the funniest dysregulation moments thread as well.

You know what I am really pissed off at you right now  so that is fine

Talk to you I a month then

In*

###

I will call you 02/01/2016 in the morning and we can decide from there what is what.

###

When you are able to show me that you have filed for divorce we can resume our normal relationship. I look forward to that.

I will call you 02/01/2016 in the morning and we can decide from there what is what.

###

[unicorn2014]

I am hearing more strength and clarity in this position than in anything you have posted thus far. You are doing good work.

Thank you Gagrl, I hope you find my replies equally strong and clear.  I appreciate the validation! 

[unicorn2014]

Did you talk to him at all about the Facebook posts when you called him? I think this is another example of the little things that you would need to work on not reacting to, if you choose to continue the relationship... .PwBPD do a lot of weird, annoying, aggravating, triggering, hurtful, terrible things on a pretty regular basis. The Non has to learn how to pick their battles, not take things personally, and deal in a calm and gentle manner only with the things that really need to be addressed.

What he did was triggering and he did it out of respect to me because he thought I would be triggered by his regular posts. He was wrong. I was triggered by the fact that he changed his picture, and his posting style. It got my attention.

And pwBPD especially like to say exaggeratedly affectionate things that are totally inconsistent with their past speech and actions, because they're just reacting to their feelings in that moment which alternate between idealization and devaluation, as you know. It stings to hear them singing your praises and lavishing affection when they've done and said things that completely contradict that. Try to just stay in the middle and accept that he's just going to feel whatever he feels at that time.

Yes my second to last therapist was trying to get me to take the middle path. She was good and I am sorry I had to stop working with her. My partner is doing that in iMessage as we speak, he is totally devaluing me while accusing me of doing the same. I wish I could laugh at it.

Other than knowing the therapist recommended it, what do you think about venting to your partner about your ex? I'm inclined to disagree with it, especially during times like this. It sets up a weird drama triangle (you=victim, ex=persecutor, partner=wannabe rescuer), which is setting the stage for a quarrel over whether your partner should be involved by contacting your ex or not. And also contributes to the bad boundaries between what's his business and what's your business.

As that is my former therapist, and she was just a social worker at a community clinic, I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm currently without a therapist. The DBT team was supposed to provide me with one but they have not. I am reluctant to push the issue as I do not know if I will have to pay out of pocket and I already am paying for DBT out of pocket.

I will go over the drama triangle lesson as well.

I actually subscribe to the email of one of the authors of one of the lessons on the drama triangle.

[thisagain]

I think you're on the right track!

Is there a way for you to hide or limit your exposure to his Facebook posts, since it seems like most anything he posts is difficult for you at this point? I can't say enough in favor of just stepping back and slowing down. PwBPD are always going mile-a-minute through different emotions, fights, crises, and it's easy for us to get sucked in with them.

It's great to work on lowering your reactivity and staying in the middle. There are some Staying lessons that might be helpful for this - one called something like "mindfulness, triggering and wise mind," another "circular arguments - don't pick it up," and one on time-outs. I used to reread some of those almost every day.

In the meantime, I'd really encourage you to think about ways to reduce the communication more, especially during this break-type period. The no-Facetime isn't likely to have the effect you're looking for if the bickering just gets relocated to other channels.

Hopefully the therapy situation can be resolved in an affordable way! I used to pay out of pocket for both myself and my pwBPD (speaking of bad boundaries between our business and theirs), and am still paying down the credit card bills. 

[unicorn2014]

Is there a way for you to hide or limit your exposure to his Facebook posts, since it seems like most anything he posts is difficult for you at this point? I can't say enough in favor of just stepping back and slowing down. PwBPD are always going mile-a-minute through different emotions, fights, crises, and it's easy for us to get sucked in with them.

I already talked to him about this last night so I solved the problem. I let him know his new ways of doing things wasn't working for me, and since he was doing it for me, he needed to know that. I told him just be himself, its ok, he won't trigger me.

It's great to work on lowering your reactivity and staying in the middle. There are some Staying lessons that might be helpful for this - one called something like "mindfulness, triggering and wise mind," another "circular arguments - don't pick it up," and one on time-outs. I used to reread some of those almost every day.

Yes I've told my partner we're taking a time out until I see he's filed for divorce. I will reread those lessons and once I've seen he's filed I can move back over to the staying board. As one member stated, I seemed more at peace on the staying board, so the fact that I'm back on the undecided board for a second time is not a good sign. I hope this situation does indeed get resolved by the end of the month as he said it would. Since he gave me that time frame I'm fine waiting until then and if it doesn't I will need to look at my next step.

In the meantime, I'd really encourage you to think about ways to reduce the communication more, especially during this break-type period. The no-Facetime isn't likely to have the effect you're looking for if the bickering just gets relocated to other channels.

The fight we got into today is because the toxicity from my relationship with my ex spilled over into my relationship with my partner. I don't know if you watched the tv show fringe or not but there was an episode where women were injected with radioactive isotopes that weaponized them. That's kind of how I see my relationship with my ex. The ironic thing is I got in a fight with my partner right after an Al-Anon meeting which I joined when my ex relapsed when my d15 was 3.

Hopefully the therapy situation can be resolved in an affordable way! I used to pay out of pocket for both myself and my pwBPD (speaking of bad boundaries between our business and theirs), and am still paying down the credit card bills. 

I've had 8 years of therapy since my divorce so I don't really need therapy, and DBT is affordable. However if they offer me a therapist I will take it.

[Grey Kitty]

1. If your partner's facebook presence is causing you distress, at least unfollow him on facebook, so you see less of it.

2. Not all therapists are really good, and not all are well matched to you. I'm suspicious about yours for a couple reasons... .

-- 8 years of regular T should be enough to sort a lot of stuff out, and to be blunt... .the three year r/s history you have had with your partner points that you have some issues still.

-- Venting to your partner about your ex sounds like a terrible idea to me. A therapist who recommended it sounds pretty bad to me. (Perhaps what your T said was a bit more nuanced; there are some things about your ex that would be worth telling your partner... .but not general venting!)

3. If you are getting upset about what he's doing/saying right now (as opposed to upset about prior things he did), my conclusion is you should reduce contact further with him. Note: You don't have to tell him not to text, and certainly don't have to say it multiple times. Instead just stop reading his texts. Or read them once a day, whether he sends you one or 1,253 per day.

[Daniell85]

I have gotten a little lost, as there are a lot of issues.

I was thinking about this today, and Unicorn, it seems to me that there may be a "hook" that is catching you up in all of this chaos.

Simply, the healthiest way to handle most of it, for your own self, and everyone else, is to disengage from people who are being difficult, crossing your boundaries, pestering you, and just plain aggravating the heck out of things.

That requires taking a big step back on a lot of levels. Maybe set aside the upsets for a bit and ask yourself, for you, what is the hook here? What is keeping you engaged with these people?

You can't fix them. You can't jump high enough, be pretty enough, thin enough, rich enough, spiritual enough. It's not because you are not enough. It's because it's not your fault or responsibility if other people prefer to lie, or take drugs, or try to bait on social sites.

You have you, and you have your daughter. You are enough to guide her on your own. You are enough inside your own self, who you are, how you live your life. You only need to account to your own self and your faith if you want to.

Those guys... .your partner, your ex, your mom and her issues, your dad, your brother... you can't fix them, no matter how you put your heart out in their direction, no matter how many times you ask them for right action.

What you CAN do, is take care of Unicorn. Part of that is preserving your self and your day, your life as the days pass, from the people who are hurting you.

You don't owe any of them an explanation for why you need something, want something, or DON'T want something. No amount of trying to talk people into your way of thinking is going to get their approval and make things ok.

Walk away from this stuff. You don't have to fix it. Let them fix themselves, they can catch up to you when they do.

[adventurer]

You don't owe any of them an explanation for why you need something, want something, or DON'T want something. No amount of trying to talk people into your way of thinking is going to get their approval and make things ok.

One book that really helped me get this stuff into my head is When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. I recommend it.

[unicorn2014]

2. Not all therapists are really good, and not all are well matched to you. I'm suspicious about yours for a couple reasons... .

-- 8 years of regular T should be enough to sort a lot of stuff out, and to be blunt... .the three year r/s history you have had with your partner points that you have some issues still.

-- Venting to your partner about your ex sounds like a terrible idea to me. A therapist who recommended it sounds pretty bad to me. (Perhaps what your T said was a bit more nuanced; there are some things about your ex that would be worth telling your partner... .but not general venting!)

Hi Grey Kitty and thank you for your response. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. The therapist I saw for 8 weeks this fall was not the therapist I worked with for 7 years, or the therapist I worked with for 1 year. I've had three therapists over the course of my relationship with my partner, and the one I was referring to was a social worker who was providing me therapy on a temporary basis.

3. If you are getting upset about what he's doing/saying right now (as opposed to upset about prior things he did), my conclusion is you should reduce contact further with him. Note: You don't have to tell him not to text, and certainly don't have to say it multiple times. Instead just stop reading his texts. Or read them once a day, whether he sends you one or 1,253 per day.

Thank you for this. I'm not handling this very well which I will post about on a new thread. A lot has happened  in the past few days.

[unicorn2014]

You don't owe any of them an explanation for why you need something, want something, or DON'T want something. No amount of trying to talk people into your way of thinking is going to get their approval and make things ok.

One book that really helped me get this stuff into my head is When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. I recommend it.

Thank you I checked it out and its on my shelf.