Ho do you handle the one sidedness?

[vortex of confusion]

How do you deal with feeling that things are one sided?

Yesterday was our anniversary. In years past, I have gotten a babysitter and tried to make it possible for us to go on a date. This year, I didn't do that. We agreed that we would spend the day at home with the kids and maybe have a nice dinner together.

I woke up and he was on his computer playing games. He did leave a sweet note for me to find. However, he didn't get off his computer. He made no attempt to do anything until I got up and went to make breakfast. I made a huge breakfast of his favorite foods. I had a nice big meal on the table and we had a family breakfast together. He spent the day checked out.

When it came time to discuss dinner, he wasn't hungry because he ate biscuits and gravy all day. I cooked some food for the kids and made something for myself since he wasn't interested. He helped me with a few things around the house. They were typical things. There wasn't really anything that showed me that he recognized that it was our anniversary and that he wanted to celebrate it. He was more interested in reading his books and watching TV. Today, I tried to talk to him about it and all I got was, "I tried to stay off the computer yesterday." Um, yeah, he stayed off the computer but found other things to do to pretty much check out.

I made it a point to sleep in the same bed as him last night so we could cuddle and such. It was my attempt to celebrate our anniversary and let him know that I love him. When we woke up this morning, the kids were all asleep so I started initiating. I wanted to cuddle, kiss, have sex, whatever. He has this thing where he pretty much just lays there and lets me do the work. I sometimes feel like a monkey the way I am twisting and contorting myself and trying to get things going. His equipment failed, which led him to pout and get upset. Later on, we talked about it a bit and I tried to explain to him that I wasn't concerned about whether or not the equipment was working. I was more upset by the fact that he just lays there and doesn't act like he is interested.

The lack of interest seems to be a common theme. Whether it is sex or cuddling or spending time with me or pretty much anything, it feels like he is checked out. I busted my butt cooking his favorite foods and trying to make our anniversary nice for him yet he can't/won't do the same for me. I feel like a jerk sometimes because it makes me mad. It isn't about gifts. It is about the fact that I have a husband that doesn't seem to be able to act like he even wants me. He can't step outside of himself long enough to think that maybe, just maybe, I might want a little bit of special treatment on our anniversary.

I am feeling really blah and sad and mad and want to hear how other people handle it when they feel like it is all one sided and there is no hope. (On a good day, I am pretty good at dealing with this stuff. Today isn't a good day and I need to hear that I am not crazy or selfish for wanting to feel wanted on our wedding anniversary.)

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[workinprogress]

VOC, I have felt like this for years!

I go out of my way to try and make our anniversaries special, and she makes no effort at all!

I recall one year, I had said, "let's go out to dinner for our anniversary."  She said she didn't want to spend the money.

Well, on our anniversary, she decided to go to the little league ball park and hand out with her friends.  None of our kids were even playing at the time.  She ended up getting back home around 9PM.    I was so pissed.  Also, a coworker of mine had committed suicide the day before, so I was upset about that on top of everything else.

It's best to make it no big deal.

Just like for my bday tomorrow.  I asked my wife to go out to dinner with me Saturday for it.  She said no.  So, I thought "screw it.  I want to do something."  So, I asked the kids to go, and of course, they did.  My wife ended up deciding to come along. 

[vortex of confusion]

I go out of my way to try and make our anniversaries special, and she makes no effort at all!

I have done this for years as well. I try to do something special for him on his birthdays, on our anniversary, and at other times.

Like you, this has gone on for years. I should be used to it by now. For some reason, it hits me hard every now and then. I can't help but feel like he doesn't care. If something requires him to think about something other than himself, he can't do it.

I am mad at myself for letting it get to me. I know better. I know that this is who he is and that I have to accept the fact that it is quite likely that he won't ever act like he really, truly wants to be in a relationship with me. He says that he wants to feel normal and have a normal relationship with me. The problem is that it requires work and he isn't willing or able to do the work involved.

I don't understand how a person can be so friggin' clueless. It was our 17th anniversary and he didn't even act like he wanted to have sex with me this morning. I hate that he makes excuses like, "I just didn't think about it." Or "I don't know what is wrong with me." Or "I just want to feel normal." It is some BS that completely detracts from the fact that I might accidentally have a feeling about something.

[workinprogress]

I go out of my way to try and make our anniversaries special, and she makes no effort at all!

I have done this for years as well. I try to do something special for him on his birthdays, on our anniversary, and at other times.

Like you, this has gone on for years. I should be used to it by now. For some reason, it hits me hard every now and then. I can't help but feel like he doesn't care. If something requires him to think about something other than himself, he can't do it.

I am mad at myself for letting it get to me. I know better. I know that this is who he is and that I have to accept the fact that it is quite likely that he won't ever act like he really, truly wants to be in a relationship with me. He says that he wants to feel normal and have a normal relationship with me. The problem is that it requires work and he isn't willing or able to do the work involved.

I don't understand how a person can be so friggin' clueless. It was our 17th anniversary and he didn't even act like he wanted to have sex with me this morning. I hate that he makes excuses like, "I just didn't think about it." Or "I don't know what is wrong with me." Or "I just want to feel normal." It is some BS that completely detracts from the fact that I might accidentally have a feeling about something.

Here's the deal, we have let them get the upper hand in the relationship.  They know that we want it more and care more, so it gives them power.  I don't know how this happened in my marriage.  For years all I heard from my wife was that she loved me more and that I was terrible.  I was terrible because I didn't really love her and on and on... .

Well, I think it finally wore me down and once she knew she got the best of me she pounced and didn't relent.

I read a little bit of everything for help in my life... .from Napoleon Hill to Men's Sites.  What I have found is we need a purpose in our lives that is bigger than our relationship/marriages.

It's tough for us to do since we drain ourselves trying to make these relational wrecks work.

So, what I've been doing is controlling how I feel and taking her out of the equation.  Let's face it, it's been 17 years since my wife and I have truly had a good marriage.  I have hung in there.  If I were to go to Vegas and place a bet on it being restored I would probably face about 2 million to 1 odds, if not worse.  So, realistically, it just isn't going to happen.

So, I desire to continue to strengthen myself through working out.

I try to call on my higher power and lead a good moral life.

Plus, I am going to get much more into my writing/entreprenural efforts.

I may get lonely sometimes, but who doesn't?  I really want to start enjoying my life. 

Today at the gym a guy was wearing a shirt that said, "Life is short."  It is, I'm nearing 50.  It's time to live.  The hell with these people.

[vortex of confusion]

Here's the deal, we have let them get the upper hand in the relationship.  They know that we want it more and care more, so it gives them power. 

I don't think I have let my husband get the upper hand. I have a difficult time understanding this line of thinking because I don't approach things from a place of control.

So, what I've been doing is controlling how I feel and taking her out of the equation.

I am trying to stop controlling how I feel. I am trying to let myself feel whatever it is that I feel rather than tell myself that I have to control my feelings. I am controlling how I react to my feelings. In the past, I would have beat myself up over having negative feelings about our anniversary. I would have told myself that I shouldn't feel anything because I should have been better prepared for things. It isn't like this is something new. I sometimes think that I would have to become a friggin' robot to not be bothered by some of this stuff. I am not a robot. I am a woman and I occasionally want to be treated like one.

I really don't care about my husband's motivations, etc.  


So, I desire to continue to strengthen myself through working out.

I try to call on my higher power and lead a good moral life.

Plus, I am going to get much more into my writing/entreprenural efforts.

I may get lonely sometimes, but who doesn't?  I really want to start enjoying my life. 

Today at the gym a guy was wearing a shirt that said, "Life is short."  It is, I'm nearing 50.  It's time to live.  The hell with these people.[/quote]

[Cat Familiar]

Vortex,

I'm so sorry your anniversary was such a disappointment.    The narcissistic component of BPD can be so overwhelming. It's like you give, give, give and all they want to do is take. I guess he thought the note was all he needed to do.

What I do sometimes in these situations is to try to manipulate a situation so I get a pay out of some kind, even if it's not my ideal. For example: I talked my husband into buying a heat pump for the pool. Actually I bought it, using his credit card. He was PO'ed at having to spend the money and the heat pump turned into my anniversary gift, but now I'm enjoying swimming much earlier in the season.

(He is loving the warm water too--but it took a long time for him to admit it.)

[workinprogress]

Here's the deal, we have let them get the upper hand in the relationship.  They know that we want it more and care more, so it gives them power. 

I don't think I have let my husband get the upper hand. I have a difficult time understanding this line of thinking because I don't approach things from a place of control.

So, what I've been doing is controlling how I feel and taking her out of the equation.

I am trying to stop controlling how I feel. I am trying to let myself feel whatever it is that I feel rather than tell myself that I have to control my feelings. I am controlling how I react to my feelings. In the past, I would have beat myself up over having negative feelings about our anniversary. I would have told myself that I shouldn't feel anything because I should have been better prepared for things. It isn't like this is something new. I sometimes think that I would have to become a friggin' robot to not be bothered by some of this stuff. I am not a robot. I am a woman and I occasionally want to be treated like one.

I really don't care about my husband's motivations, etc.  


So, I desire to continue to strengthen myself through working out.

I try to call on my higher power and lead a good moral life.

Plus, I am going to get much more into my writing/entreprenural efforts.

I may get lonely sometimes, but who doesn't?  I really want to start enjoying my life. 

Today at the gym a guy was wearing a shirt that said, "Life is short."  It is, I'm nearing 50.  It's time to live.  The hell with these people.

[/quote]
I hope you didn't misunderstand what I meant.  For them, it is about control and security.  We were their shiny new toys, now we are old furniture.  They don't really want to maintain that furniture, nor do they want to throw it out.  So, we are just there.  In a way, we are under their control.  Try to make some changes with yourself and see how he responds.

[vortex of confusion]

What I do sometimes in these situations is to try to manipulate a situation so I get a pay out of some kind, even if it's not my ideal.

I managed to weasel a neck rub out of it. I have had a knot in my shoulder so I used our anniversary as an excuse to get him to rub my neck. He worked on it for a little while but got tired. Back in the day, he used to give me neck rubs, back rubs, and foot rubs all of the time without me asking at all. Nowadays, if I ask, he gets this attitude and will do it for a few seconds and then quit. So, I used the fact that it was our anniversary to get him to do it for longer than a few seconds. My shoulder was really hurting and it was making my arg tingle and I could quite reach it with my massaging wand.

[vortex of confusion]

I hope you didn't misunderstand what I meant.  For them, it is about control and security.  We were their shiny new toys, now we are old furniture.  They don't really want to maintain that furniture, nor do they want to throw it out.  So, we are just there.  In a way, we are under their control.  Try to make some changes with yourself and see how he responds.

What I was trying to say is that it doesn't matter what it is for them. What matters is how I deal with things. I really don't care about his motivations any more. At least I try not to worry about it. I miss the mark from time to time. I spent way too much time wondering about his motivations, etc. That isn't really on my radar right now.

What is on my radar is keeping myself in check when I find that I am bothered by something. What my husband did on our anniversary wasn't the least bit surprising. What surprised me is my reaction to it and how I felt about it. It shows me that I haven't radically accepted certain things.

I have been working on myself for quite a while. I think there have been a lot of positive changes around here. That doesn't keep me from feeling dysregulated, angry, or surprised at my own feelings. I woke up feeling angry on our anniversary. I think it was because I woke up to him playing his computer games. I shouldn't have been angry. That is what he does almost every day. Why would our anniversary be any different than any other day?

[married21years]

i win in the screwed up anniversary stakes

[Notwendy]

I am so sorry about your anniversary. I don't know what to suggest as there is no way to make someone reciprocate your interest. Your H is missing out on a really great time with his wife. That is sad.

One idea would be to make yourself happy. Get a sitter, make plans to go get a massage, eat a nice dinner, or whatever you want to do and celebrate your day.

It makes me wonder what he would do if, after lying in bed with him doing all you can to get him interested, you then said. "well honey, I love you and since you aren't interested, I will continue with this. Then pull out the biggest vibrator you could find, ( which would get his attention!) and just act as if it was no big deal to continue with that.

If one considers the poor self esteem pw BPD have, one way to deal with that is with power and control. I can't help but wonder if this is some way he maintains power by "depriving" you no matter how hard you try- watching you do anything you can to get him interested. Like in his mind, if he gives in, you "win" in a way but by not participating he "wins"? while you lose ( go to bed frustrated).

What would be the impact of saying, "OK honey, I understand that you are not available, but this is... ."  ?

[PeppermintTea]

I am feeling really blah and sad and mad and want to hear how other people handle it when they feel like it is all one sided and there is no hope.

VOC I absolutely hear you with this post. I'm really sorry that your anniversary went this way.

Obviously not all people wBPD are the same (as not all people are the same). For me when I feel the way you do now I show my husband my true feelings /  my authentic self in that moment. (I'm not sure whether this is usually advisable or not when dealing with BPD but it is what I do... .)

"Husband I am angry as hell right now. I feel that you don't care about me or our 17 years together, your actions / attitude this morning have led me to believe this. I am going out to spend the rest of the day walking the dog / shopping / seeing my friend (whatever) and then I am taking the children out for dinner. Goodbye".

Then I do all those things (which incidentally usually help me pick my mood up a bit) and when I get back after dinner my husband will have usually done at least something small (to show some remorse maybe?) like cleaned or washed up or something along those lines. BUT my husband is different to yours - it sounds to me like yours might not even feel remorse never mind do something small to show it while you're out.

I think bottom line is that  you could see in the morning that your husband was not likely going to get off his butt and do anything to make you feel special so at that point I think I would have just done stuff to make myself feel special. As your post title says it is all about one sidedness so at moments like this you just have to get on your own side... .as sad as that is... .

PT

[CastleofGlass]

Vortex-Little late in posting. Sorry about your anniversary. I think it is the toughest for us nons during certain holidays that celebrate being a couple or my favorite, the holidays for us nons (bday, Fathers/Mothers Day). These to me are even worse. I go out of my way to make a Mothers Day great for my uBPDw. I do the same for her bday. But when it's my turn to enjoy a day of focus on me or what I do... .it's a 50/50 shot that it will be worth celebrating at all.

I am planning to put a post on Father's Day to wish all those non fathers out there a happy one b/c if you have a bad weekend leading up to it, chances are, it will be only celebrated by yourself and maybe your kids depending on their ages.

[Thread]

After multiple attempts of well-celebrated holidays and anniversaries... .I now expect nothing.

I know that sounds sad, and for me I love holidays and gifting, it used to bring me so much joy. But after failed attempts and always some kind of issue on those days, like it was uncomfortable for him or something, not sure what that's about, I just stopped trying so hard to make it part of our relationship.

Now I just say happy anniversary (ours was last week). I don't expect anything, but I got some flowers, none of my favorites, all the colors I dislike, but hey! I got flowers and I didn't have to hint or ask or remind him to gift me--- funny thing is I didn't even realize it was our anniversary I was so caught up and focused with our business and work. Whoops  

I guess I've just learned it's a celebration when there is no major drama or outbursts. Anything else is extra.

[jhkbuzz]

I made it a point to sleep in the same bed as him last night so we could cuddle and such. It was my attempt to celebrate our anniversary and let him know that I love him. When we woke up this morning, the kids were all asleep so I started initiating. I wanted to cuddle, kiss, have sex, whatever. He has this thing where he pretty much just lays there and lets me do the work. I sometimes feel like a monkey the way I am twisting and contorting myself and trying to get things going. His equipment failed, which led him to pout and get upset. Later on, we talked about it a bit and I tried to explain to him that I wasn't concerned about whether or not the equipment was working. I was more upset by the fact that he just lays there and doesn't act like he is interested.

Have you considered that he doesn't want to have sex because he's not sure the "equipment will work"? Has he seen a doctor?

[vortex of confusion]

i win in the screwed up anniversary stakes

How so?

My anniversary this year was way better than it as last year or the year before. Last year, he couldn't be bothered with planning anything with me because he was too busy thinking about where to take some other chick and whether or not he wanted to screw her.

The year before that, he was more interested in telling me to go f*** some other guy. I think his exact words were, "Why don't you go eff him. He has a big d. You would probably like that."

This year was light years better, which is why I was a bit surprised that I was bothered.

[vortex of confusion]

I am so sorry about your anniversary. I don't know what to suggest as there is no way to make someone reciprocate your interest. Your H is missing out on a really great time with his wife. That is sad.

I know that I can't make anyone reciprocate interest. My husband has proved that for years.

One idea would be to make yourself happy. Get a sitter, make plans to go get a massage, eat a nice dinner, or whatever you want to do and celebrate your day.

I worked on cleaning my house. That makes me happy, doesn't cost any money, and doesn't require a sitter. The joke around my house is that all mom ever wants is a clean house. It doesn't matter if it is my birthday, Christmas, an anniversary, mother's day or any other day. All I want is a clean house. If they don't want to help me clean it, then I want them to stay out of my way and not bug me so I can clean it. I put on some music and clean and dance and life is good.

It makes me wonder what he would do if, after lying in bed with him doing all you can to get him interested, you then said. "well honey, I love you and since you aren't interested, I will continue with this. Then pull out the biggest vibrator you could find, ( which would get his attention!) and just act as if it was no big deal to continue with that.

I usually get up, get dressed, and go to the bathroom. He asked if I was going to come back and I told him no. I didn't make a big deal about it at all. I am not going to do that to him. It makes him way too uncomfortable. He gets this look that makes me feel icky. I'd rather get up and walk out.

If one considers the poor self esteem pw BPD have, one way to deal with that is with power and control. I can't help but wonder if this is some way he maintains power by "depriving" you no matter how hard you try- watching you do anything you can to get him interested. Like in his mind, if he gives in, you "win" in a way but by not participating he "wins"? while you lose ( go to bed frustrated).

I don't think that is it at all. I don't feel like it is a control thing. I don't think he is aware enough to do that. I am serious. He is captain clueless. I don't consider it a game of win/lose. If he isn't interested, he isn't interested.

What would be the impact of saying, "OK honey, I understand that you are not available, but this is... ."  ?

He would get upset and whine and be all, "I want to be available, blah, blah, blah sex addiction blah blah blah I am sober blah blah blah sexual anorexia blah blah blah." I don't bring up sex with him very often because it usually leads to a conversation about his sex addiction and how it makes it difficult for him to do anything with me. Quite frankly, there are days when I think he is just a big fat liar that isn't interested in me that way. There was a period of time when I was reading everything I could get my hands on. One of the things that I read was a series of articles about how to tell if a man just isn't that into you. WOW, it fit my husband to a T. That was a couple of years ago. I sent him the article and told him, "See, this is why I don't feel like you are that into me." Yesterday, I came across a BS meme/quote that said something along the lines of "People make time for people that are important." I read that to him and said that I felt like I wasn't important to him because he couldn't check in more on our anniversary. He didn't like that too well.

Any time I try to point out his lack of availability, he gets butt hurt. He doesn't rage and argue any more. He just gets quiet and depressed and whines about how hard he is trying.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex-Little late in posting. Sorry about your anniversary. I think it is the toughest for us nons during certain holidays that celebrate being a couple or my favorite, the holidays for us nons (bday, Fathers/Mothers Day). These to me are even worse. I go out of my way to make a Mothers Day great for my uBPDw. I do the same for her bday. But when it's my turn to enjoy a day of focus on me or what I do... .it's a 50/50 shot that it will be worth celebrating at all.

For his birthday, I cook nice dinners and spoil him as best I can. A couple of years ago, my brother and his wife threw a big birthday party for me because they knew that my husband wasn't going to do a flipping thing. I don't ever expect anything from him. I learned a long time ago not get my hopes up and to make plans for myself if there is something specific that I want.

I know all of this. It just hit me harder than I thought it would, especially since this year was light years better than years past.

[vortex of confusion]

I guess I've just learned it's a celebration when there is no major drama or outbursts. Anything else is extra.

I know this intellectually. Can't seem to get my heart to accept it. I want more but know that I am not going to get more as long as I am with him.

[vortex of confusion]

Have you considered that he doesn't want to have sex because he's not sure the "equipment will work"? Has he seen a doctor?

I know all about his performance anxieties. He reminds me of it whenever things don't work. Whenever I bring up the fact that he doesn't seem interested in me, sexually or otherwise, I get beat over the head with his sex addiction and his anxieties and his whatever it is. I know that I sound a bit callous. I am because I don't think a man's equipment needs to work in order to show his wife non-sexual attention. I told him that I wasn't bothered by his equipment not working. That happens. What I am bothered by is the fact that he is so disconnected and acts like he doesn't care and has very little interest in me.

Over the years, I thought that maybe I was wanting too much and that my standards were too high. That isn't the case. I have read and read and then read some more. I don't think I can lower my standards any more without me going back to never calling him on anything and me doing whatever.

I told him, "What about MY pleasure?" If all you are worried about is whether or not that is going to work, that shows that all you care about is you and your pleasure. You can give me pleasure and enjoy being with me without your equipment working. How does whether or not it works keep you from cuddling with me or making out or getting frisky?

[vortex of confusion]

Has he seen a doctor?

He goes to the doctor quite regularly. I am not sure if he has talked to his doctor about it. He said that it might be a side effect of one of his medicines. I know that is a possibility. I don't think he cares if it works.

In all honesty, I could probably get his equipment to work if I started talking about wanting to be with other guys while trying to get him into things. I have done it before and it works. He will deny it. I have pulled that out a couple of times. The last time we had a successful interlude, I did some stuff and told him "See I learned a few things from <name of ex lover>." Things perked right up and we were able to finish.

[Notwendy]

Vortex, I am so sorry.

I don't know what could be going on with him. I am sure the two of you have been looking into possibilities. With his history of guilt and shame, he may not even know what he feels.

I understand how much it hurts to feel as if he isn't into you. I don't know what/who he is into or even if her knows. I think he does value you and his family, but I don't know if sex is a part of this or not.

With all the shaming he experienced, I wonder if he is even aware of his own sexuality or sexual orientation. I have known people who have families and then wake up to the knowing that they are gay, or trans ( Bruce/Caitlin Jenner) or maybe he is asexual.

I know that you are open minded and supportive of his considering these things as you have suggested them before, but they are his issues to sort out. It may not be you at all. I also think that people choose to stay together in families in some cases, and this is possible, but I wish that whatever he wants could be open so that you don't take it personally.

I hope that the two of you can come to a resolution as this is hurtful to you.

[SurfNTurf]

Vortex, I'm sorry to hear your anniversary was a disappointment.

On the upside, how nice that you can feel your feelings! Even if they are hurtful ones, they are your own.

My view is that BPD'ers want to know what it is you want (sex, time, handyman skills, conversation, companionship) so they can make sure you don't get what you want. I've learned - through his negative reinforcement - never to tell my husband what I want, b/c I won't get it anyway.  He isn't for fair trade either - ie, if I do all the cooking, would he blow off the driveway? No. Driveway hasn't been blown off since February 2015 (4 months) and we live in a dusty environment. the conversation goes something like this:

Him: Are you making breakfast?

Me: Yes, how about bacon and eggs?

Him: Sure! Sounds good!

~Breakfast occurs~

~I do clean up too~

Me: Do you think you could blow off the driveway today?

Him: No.

Me: Why not?

Him: Because it's not a priority for me.

My translation: My wishes are not a priority for him.

I bought myself one of those battery operated blowers b/c I couldn't lift the gas blower, with an extra battery pack. I now let him fix his own breakfast and manage the driveway myself, then shower, and take myself out for coffee... .

[vortex of confusion]

I don't know what could be going on with him. I am sure the two of you have been looking into possibilities. With his history of guilt and shame, he may not even know what he feels.

He doesn't have a clue. I used to look into the possibilities. I used to try to encourage him to look into stuff. All that did is come across as my trying to fix him. It added to his guilt and shame. I have tried to STOP worrying so much about what is going on with him. It was distracting me from doing my thing.

I understand how much it hurts to feel as if he isn't into you. I don't know what/who he is into or even if her knows. I think he does value you and his family, but I don't know if sex is a part of this or not.

Most of the time, I seem to be okay with it. In all honesty, I question whether he values me as a person. I know he values me as somebody that he can rely on to take care of things. I know he values me for what I can do. I am not the least bit convinced that he values me as the person that I am.

With all the shaming he experienced, I wonder if he is even aware of his own sexuality or sexual orientation. I have known people who have families and then wake up to the knowing that they are gay, or trans ( Bruce/Caitlin Jenner) or maybe he is asexual.

I deeply suspect that he might be gay. He has a history of questioning his own sexuality. When he went through a period of thinking that he was bi, I completely supported him. I have tried to make it perfectly clear that I will support him however I can. I know that he is a tormented soul. I have a lot of compassion for him. I am trying to not let my compassion get in the way of identifying MY needs and desires.

I know that you are open minded and supportive of his considering these things as you have suggested them before, but they are his issues to sort out. It may not be you at all. I also think that people choose to stay together in families in some cases, and this is possible, but I wish that whatever he wants could be open so that you don't take it personally.

I don't think it is me at all. I guess what I am wanting is communication. I brought that up with him today. I validated that he didn't do anything on our anniversary because he was at a loss. When I brought up his disconnection and lack of interest, he told me, "I wanted to do something but we didn't have any money and I didn't know what to do."

I responded, "I understand that. I know it is frustrating to want to do something but not have the money. Did it occur to you to come sit down by me and tell me that on our anniversary? I am not a mind reader. All I saw was you checking out. You tried to help around the house and you wrote me a note. I really appreciate those things."

Another incident that happened over the weekend was that I was cooking dinner. When it was done, I called the kids in to come get it. I don't always do a sit down dinner so I was serving them up to eat wherever they wanted. Anyway, I had kids waiting for me to get stuff out of the hot pans. He comes into the kitchen, gets in the dishwasher and has this attitude that he gets. I had no idea what he was going to do. I didn't know if he was going to get a plate and bogart in line for food (he will do that from time to time) or if he was going to empty the dishwasher or something else. I couldn't read his mind. I was in a mood because I was hungry and trying to help the kids and he was in his own world yet again. I should have said something to him like, "What are you doing?" I didn't. Instead, I finished up getting the kids stuff and told them, "Let's get out of here. It seems like we are in dad's way." That is exactly what his attitude and body language said.

When he comes in the living room, he gets mad at me and asked why we got out of there. I told him, "I didn't know what you were doing and it seemed like we were in your way."

Him:  "I was trying to empty the dishwasher."

Me: I didn't know that. I had no idea what you were doing.

Him: It was obvious that I was emptying the dishwasher.

Me: I didn't know what you were doing. You could have been getting a plate to get your food. You could have been emptying the dishwasher or you could have been doing something else. I didn't know. I am not a mind reader.

At some point in that discussion, he started to raise his voice and yell at me. I told him, ":)on't you dare yell at me."

Him: I wasn't yelling. I was raising my voice because that is the only way I am going to be heard.

I reiterated that I heard what he said and that I didn't know what he was doing. I am not a mind reader. He calmed down and the conversation ended.

I hope that the two of you can come to a resolution as this is hurtful to you.

There is no resolution to this. I can set boundaries to keep him from yelling at me and that is about it. The only resolution that I see is me doing a better job of radically accepting that this is the way it is. I feel kind of stupid because this is the way it has been for years. Wanting a resolution without me leaving would be a bit of magical thinking on my part.

[vortex of confusion]

On the upside, how nice that you can feel your feelings! Even if they are hurtful ones, they are your own.

That is a big step for me! For years, I dismissed my own feelings. I think that is part of the reason that I am feeling all of this stuff now. I kept it at bay for way too long.

[Notwendy]

By resolution, I meant I wish that he would find his own truth- what he feels and wants.

In a way, I think it would be a relief to find out he was gay than to wonder and also wonder about if you should try for intimacy.

I think it would also still be possible to co-parent and if you choose to- live together as friends - and that would seem easier than him being so tormented about something, whatever it is.

Maybe it's a pipe dream... .but still, it would help you decide a direction.

[vortex of confusion]

By resolution, I meant I wish that he would find his own truth- what he feels and wants.

The problem that I have had with him for a lot of years is the fact that he doesn't want to work for things. Relationships take work. Even friendships take work.

I think it would also still be possible to co-parent and if you choose to- live together as friends - and that would seem easier than him being so tormented about something, whatever it is.

I have no problems with going the friend route. Even that route is going to require some level of communication between us. I am trying to figure out how to best communicate with him in such a way that it is successful.

Maybe it's a pipe dream... .but still, it would help you decide a direction.

What do you mean by help decide a direction? I am staying. I am certain of that.

One of the questions that came up when I was talking to my trauma coach today is how hard I should push things. I think I have isolated communication as one of the big issues that make things difficult for me. There are issues that I want to tackle and address but I can't do that without figuring out how to communicate with him.

I need to figure out how to phrase it and start a new thread.

[Notwendy]

By direction I meant if you knew his sexual orientation then you'd know whether or not to keep trying intimacy. If he were gay, then you would know not to try. Maybe it's a pipe dream but I wonder if that would improve the verbal communication between you. I think it is fine to stay together if both of you wish to. I'm sure it's been done.

I wonder if he is so full of shame that looking into his own issues causes so much dysregulation. He seems to want to escape. It's sad.

[vortex of confusion]

By direction I meant if you knew his sexual orientation then you'd know whether or not to keep trying intimacy. If he were gay, then you would know not to try. Maybe it's a pipe dream but I wonder if that would improve the verbal communication between you. I think it is fine to stay together if both of you wish to. I'm sure it's been done.

I wonder if he is so full of shame that looking into his own issues causes so much dysregulation. He seems to want to escape. It's sad.

Ah, thanks for the clarification! He says that he is straight. I think there is more going on with his sexuality than he can or will admit. He blames everything on his sex addiction. I don't buy it but there isn't really anything that I can say and I have no friggin' idea how to approach it delicately.

If he could communicate with me, a lot of stuff would be a lot easier. One thing that we do agree on is that we both want to stay together for the kids. The bigger question is whether or not our staying together will look like a traditional marriage or two people living together as friends to raise the kids and share finances, etc. I already feel a bit like a single mom at times.

Yes, he very much wants to escape. He very much doesn't want to dig into whatever it is that eats at him. It is very sad and I have tried to create a home environment that is supportive for everyone. I have tried to create a home environment that we would all enjoy. I have failed miserably because he still wants to escape and I find that there are times when I do too.