What state to divorce in?

[Grey Kitty]

My life moves around. My legal residence is in Washington State. I'm currently living on my boat in Georgia. My wife is in Washington right now, but will be in Ohio in a 2-3 weeks. I've got no idea where she will go after a couple days in Ohio. I would naturally stay in Georgia for a month or two, but by then I could launch my boat and might go to Florida for a while.

Our legal residence in Washington is actually my parents house, and we have lots personal items stored there. My parents like her... .have no idea that our marriage is at risk... .but I'm pretty sure that blood will be thicker than water if it it comes down to that.

I'm currently coming to the idea that my marriage may not be salvageable. The good news is that I don't expect a high-conflict divorce.

My question: What state do I file in, and do I need to be there to do it? Also, does my wife need to be there?

If it matters, my mother does have an active POA for me.

[KateCat]

If you and your wife didn't really need the advice of counsel, I believe Lincoln County in WA likes to make a few extra bucks by accepting divorce applications by mail from residents of any county in WA. From what I have heard (although that was some time ago), they have/had a judge who sits down with batches of such applications on a regular basis and peruses and signs them one-by-one, rejecting only the ones that seem to have some unfairness to one party or other irregularities. If you are a savvy do-it-yourselfer who can fill out the forms correctly, you end up owing the court only the filing fee for the case.

[GaGrl]

You'll need 6 months established residency in Georgia before you can file.

[ugghh]

Grey Kitty,

Can you remind us if there are any kids involved?

[Grey Kitty]

There are no kids. The only physical asset that I care about and anticipate any conflict over is our boat, which is also our home. (I'm on it right now; she's not.)

After talking to a good friend, and thinking, I realize that I'm getting way ahead of myself here.

I'm at a point where I am VERY close to ending it. I'm not quite there yet. Once I decide I'm done, the next thing is dividing up our joint assets. Then after that, move on to legal actions.

I don't expect her to do unfair things like take all our joint money and move it into her name. If she does, I can respond accordingly.

If/When I'm ready to do it, I'll start by telling her that we need to divide up our stuff and assets, and negotiate it with her.

Anyhow... .good to know that the residency requirement would make GA slower.

[ForeverDad]

An overview and state-by-state list can be viewed here at FindLaw:

  www.family.findlaw.com/divorce/divorce-residency-faq-s.html

It ends with this bit of advice:  When it comes to divorce residency issues, the laws can be fuzzy, so a do it yourself divorce may not be the best solution. Be sure to check your own state's divorce laws and consult a divorce attorney.

If there are children in the marriage then I believe there is US law that requires 6 months residency in order to file in a new area.  It doesn't apply in your case but others with children may find the links helpful.

  www.family.findlaw.com/child-custody/child-custody-laws.html

  www.family.findlaw.com/child-custody/child-custody-summaries-of-state-laws.html

  www.family.findlaw.com/divorce/divorce-and-child-custody-state-laws.html

[livednlearned]

Hi GK,



It's always a tough decision, no matter what. We're here for you if and when you need us.

Sometimes, these divorces may not be high-conflict, but they can be low conflict in ways that are exasperating. In your situation, for example, things could get dragged out if she doesn't respond in a timely way, or sign documents and send them, or show up if she is required to. I'm just thinking that if you can divorce by mail in Washington, and she's in Ohio, it doesn't take a whole lot to just not open envelopes and mail documents. I found the sight of legal language to ratchet up my emotions, and I'm the one who filed for divorce.

If you think she will obstruct the divorce (through inaction), even if she wants the divorce, you might want to tailor your strategy to file wherever you anticipate is more convenient. Or where there is a no-fault state, and processes in the event the other party does not comply. In my state (NC), both parties do not have to appear before the judge to have the divorce granted. Stuff like that is important if you anticipate your wife will not respond.

[Waddams]

Echoing that it takes 6 months to establish residency in GA.

GA has fault and no-fault grounds.  You can also finalize a divorce 31 days after filing here as long as everything is divided up and it's all neatly presented to the judge.  you don't have to be there either, your L can go without you if there's nothing contested.  If you don't use a L, then you obviously have to be there.  I don't think the other has to be there as long as all the paperwork is signed and notarized correctly, though.

[GaGrl]

The fastest state for residency for divorce that is closest to you is Alabama.  three months for residency.  Dock your boat at Point Clear or Dog River Marina in Mobile Bay or Orange Beach/Perdido Key and get a mailing address and some utility bills.

[Grey Kitty]

Here's my update:

1. I don't have any personal reasons I'm aware of to push for a fast divorce instead of a slow one.

2. We've got a bunch of shared assets. I don't want to give them all to lawyers, or give her more than her share of them... .But I value my peace of mind over most of these assets, and know I've got more than I NEED to survive and thrive.

3. I'm stuck on my current boatyard projects in Georgia for another month, perhaps two or three at most. With a boat as my home, residency is tricky to define. There's some flexibility, which can either help me or hurt me. My boat has been here for over a year. I've been here a month right now. I suspect it depends whether the legal system wants to support or deny any claim I make to residency. I also know that Georgia is particularly unfriendly to the concept of letting people live on their boats full time.

4. I do not want to stay here longer than absolutely required. Going forward with my life means going elsewhere. (Downside to GA residency)

THIS THE ONE THING THAT MATTERS TO ME: I've put my blood, sweat, tears, and heart into this sailboat and dreams with her. My wife has made great contributions as well, much more years ago, none now. She loves our boat too. We both considered her to be our home.

In the last year, I've put all my energy into two things: Supporting my wife (physically, emotionally), and this boat. The months were I wasn't working on the boat, I was kinda lost and accomplish much... .and what I did, I freely gave to her. Except friends, I've got almost nothing in my life that isn't shared with her. Neither of us has had a paying job for years. She has just written a book and is promoting it. Something important to her, but no significant income, at least yet. Plus she's got a bunch of other separate projects, and comes up with new ones all the time.

In one conversation, she did tell me that she would give me first chance at our boat if we do split. It was a verbal promise, nothing binding, and I know that.

I would probably survive if I gave up my sailboat. But it is the one shared thing I am absolutely going to fight for. Working on her is the one productive thing I want to do when I get up in the mornings these days. It has been a huge mental process for me to separate the boat from my wife, and realize that however much I'd like to have things work with my wife... .right now, I need a dream to work toward, and the boat is the one I've got. I want something to show for the last seven years of my life. Something that brings me joy. Something that I know, trust, and love. (Here they come again! My best supportive friend calls them 'Tears of Divine Intervention'

So... .enough about why. Onto WHAT and WHEN, with questions about HOW.

The boat is in both our names. With a bunch of half-finished projects, not capable of launching right now, her salable value today is way lower than what we paid. If I keep on working for a few weeks... .or months... .I dunno... .I'm bad at estimating things like this... .my effort will put her value back up. I also have a strong incentive to do the work NOW, because in a few weeks, the weather will slow me down a lot as it gets colder.

I want her to be MINE. While she is a shared asset of unknown disposition, it will be heartbreaking for me to keep working on her, not knowing if I will really keep her.

So I want to negotiate a transfer of her to just my name. ASAP. Waiting 'till a divorce is final isn't a healthy option for me.

I'd prefer to do it at some agreed upon version of her current value. I'd feel cheated if I paid my wife off to the tune of the full original purchase price. My boat and my dreams would be worth it though.

Today I just realized that I want to do this, even if we do reconcile. I want this boat to be MINE. My wife isn't sure how many months out of the year she wants to live with me anymore... .that's OK, but I want this as my home. I want to be able to re-build her as I wish, not trying to please my wife. Lots more stuff for me in there... .but I know this is how I want to go forward.

Today it is more important to me than whether my marriage survives.

So... .from a legal point of view... .assuming she still agrees to it... .what are my chances of transferring the ownership of my boat to me from joint, in a way which will survive, whether we are married & together, separated, and not be re-contested in a divorce?

[livednlearned]

So... .from a legal point of view... .assuming she still agrees to it... .what are my chances of transferring the ownership of my boat to me from joint, in a way which will survive, whether we are married & together, separated, and not be re-contested in a divorce?

I think it depends on your values, GK. Maybe there is a compelling reason it is in her favor to transfer the boat over to you, and you just need to find that reason, present it to her, and get her to sign when she is feeling validated and pacified. 

It could also be that you end up having to buy out her share with other assets, like what would happen if it was a home. In which case, a recommended tactic is to low-ball the value, with the expectation that she will high-ball, and then you settle somewhere in the middle where you planned to land all along.

[Grey Kitty]

I just got good advice from a friend.

Don't get attached to the idea of getting ownership of my boat quickly, painlessly, and cheaply. It probably won't work out that way.   It is, the largest indivisible shared item we have.

And I realized something else. If I somehow lose this boat to my wife... .however hard it would be for me... .I do love the boat, and would want her in better condition, not worse condition for my wife. I don't even wish my wife anything bad. The only harsh thing I would wish on her is a full understanding of what she's done to me.

I've got two choices: Put my heart and efforts into my boat now, and feel like I'm living well... .or refuse to do so because I'm afraid I might lose her... .That isn't how I want to live my life!

And if I lose her, I've got that to grieve. Instead, my wife is more likely to have that. We will both lose much if we split. I'll do well to remember that.

[GaGrl]

What if you get an appraisal now, keep a record of all work and materials, then have that to claim the increased value is yours?

[livednlearned]

We will both lose much if we split. I'll do well to remember that.

One of the things I've noticed on this board in particular is that the more clear your goals, the better you'll be able to develop a strategy. If your goal is to walk away from your marriage without the boat, there is a more or less clear strategy ahead of you. If your goal is to keep the boat, there are a handful of strategies to consider.

For understandable reasons (ie. divorce is an emotional decision plus the end of a contract), a lot of people kinda roll a bunch of goals and half-developed strategies together without even talking to a lawyer and getting the basic facts nailed down. Right now, you are working through the emotions of your attachments to both your wife and boat. That's an early part of the process. The next step is to get clear about your goals and then consult with two or three lawyers and collect information. It may cost you $300 or so, maybe $500 to get the information you need.

And then you can sit on that information for a while and process how you want to proceed, and figure out what your goals are that really resonate with your values.

You can still work on your boat and enjoy what you are doing. You have a lot more information to gather before you make decisions about what to do with the boat. Including making the decision that you absolutely do want a divorce.

[Grey Kitty]

What if you get an appraisal now, keep a record of all work and materials, then have that to claim the increased value is yours?

I could do that. I won't bother. I now see I was losing sight of the big stuff for the small stuff.

The big stuff: Owning my boat, and doing the work that matters to me on my boat.

The small stuff: What I need to pay my wife to get ownership. I just did some math. What we paid for our boat is around 5% of the value of our joint investment accounts and assets, excluding our somewhat uneven 401(k)'s. I believe the boat's current condition puts her value down closer to 1%.

The difference between getting 45%, 49%, 50%, 51%, or 55% of our joint assets isn't a big thing for me. I doubt it is for my wife either. How we resolve it will matter more to me. I will make the right choice for myself. Her choice is up to her.

[Grey Kitty]

One of the things I've noticed on this board in particular is that the more clear your goals, the better you'll be able to develop a strategy.

Yes indeed.

My goal is to find things that are important in my life and choose them. (I've got a thread about that here So with that established... .what are my goals?

1. Finishing the required work on my boat so she is ready to launch and sail.

2. (new one!) Sail her a few thousand miles to the other coast, with good sailing friend(s) (and not my wife, despite her good sailing abilities!) as crew.

3. Reconcile with my wife... .if possible. I know what I won't accept. I don't know how long I'll wait for her. I know it is my choice to keep waiting.

None of these goals absolutely require legal action.

There could be legal murkiness around where I sail our boat. I will have to pay some attention to that when I'm ready to launch. By that time, the question of reconciliation will likely be resolved anyway, making my goals clearer and determined by me, and thus my choices easier.

[livednlearned]

None of these goals absolutely require legal action.

I'm a big advocate of gathering legal information regardless of whether people decide to divorce or not. For example, just figuring out legally what constitutes residency seems important for you. Doesn't mean you will get divorced, it just means you take care of yourself and in some ways, you take care of your wife, by looking at the ways different states deal with the divorce process. The legal system is by default an adversarial system, but some states are less so than others when it comes to divorce.

I would avoid establishing residency in a fault state for example. I think it makes things more high-conflict for people like us, and traumatizes people for no reason. Why does anyone have to prove to the government and a bunch of strangers why they are getting a divorce? It's a deeply personal and painful decision that becomes traumatizing when it gets framed in legal language and legal action.

You may also want to look at different states and how they treat marital property. Some states may treat the boat as yours simply because you lived on it for x number of days and put sweat equity into the boat. Others might treat it like a home, with ownership split down the middle.

You might also be in one of those unusual BPD marriages where collaborative divorce makes sense. As long as you are determined that the case will not go to trial (because in collaborative divorces, the attorneys are bound by contract to not take it to trial), it's possible you could minimize the conflict.

It's also possible that filing for a trial separation establishes important parameters at a time when the two of you are relatively low conflict, which helps keep things low conflict if you do end up deciding to divorce. Easing in, as it were, instead of making a lot of important decisions when one or both parties are emotionally raw.

[Grey Kitty]

LnL, I'll trust you on wanting no-fault divorce. Fortunately, it seems easy to get.

Our claim to residence in Washington is a little murky. From the form, the legal basis for residence is broad enough that we should have no problems... .unless some party tries to contest the filing. We still both vote there. It is a no-fault state.

I can visualize moving to California, and possibly taking up legal residence there. It is also no-fault. I won't be there before 2015.

I'm not considering residing in other states, although I might be there long enough for a residency requirement. Don't know what other states my wife is considering.

For me, a division of assets, 50/50 (+/- a percent or two) is good enough to take without bringing in a lawyer.

[ForeverDad]

Exonerated has been a member for years here.  He was separated in Michigan.  Thous their youngest son was a minor and lived with him, he paid her substantial support.  After his ex drained all his finances, he moved to Texas, lived in a trailer there for 6 months and got divorced there as a pauper.  He later told me there's a saying that goes something like this, "All my divorces were in Texas."  Apparently Texas does try to keep it simple, especially regarding alimony or spousal support.