Dad feeling lost and stuck

[spin/stuck]

Hello, I'm a dad to a 3yr old son and a husband to a wife with recently diagnosed BPD (finally!). Our relationship follows all the same patterns of intensity, ups downs up downs repeat. I'm personally struggling because things are in a very hard place right now. I'm very resentful of how she's treated me over the years and I finally confronted her about her BPD. I had suspected it for a long time but never said anything. I was afraid of how she would take it. So I tried to guide her into the right therapy's but that never worked. She has been in therapy since I've known her but none of her therapists ever diagnosed BPD or they didn't tell her about it and treated around it.

I told her recently that I thought she had BPD (when we were both not activated and in a very loving/calm way) and she actually received it very well. I did this because I'm basically at a point where I'm going to leave unless she got the right kind of help and told her as much. She was relieved to know why she is the way she is and even told me she once thought she might have this diagnosis but dismissed it. All of our therapists agree with this diagnosis (we have 5 between the two of us). She is going to start DBT and put her all into this and from what I can tell she seems to be serious about it. I'm having a hard time figuring out if I should stay in this relationship. She has been emotionally, verbally, and physically abusive over the years. I'm miserable. I have read so many "healthy relationship" articles and each time there are bulleted questions I pretty much answer like someone who should overwhelmingly leave the relationship. The problem is she is pregnant with our second child. She is what you would call a high functioning BP. Extremely successful and amazing at whatever she puts herself into. She commands a high powered high paying job. The problem is when she gets home she can turn into a scary individual depending on many different factors. She even told me her work friends would never know she's like this at home... .they'd be shocked. So I'm not sure what to do here. She is going to dive into DBT (and I do believe her), I'm having a second child with her (Due in the first quarter of 2018), I already have a 3 yr old (amazing kid) with her... .I'm torn though if I should stay in this. I keep thinking all I want is a relationship with someone that is caring, loving, stable. I am the typical non-BPD partner in how I cope now, feeling stuck, feeling like I'm losing my mind, withdrawing. I'm super concerned about my son when he is exposed to her rage. He turns into a shell-shocked statue. It kills me. I try to explain to him that mom is feeling very upset but it's not ok to yell and scream at (or hit) dad. I know she feels ashamed when she can't control herself especially in-front of my son. She's very sweet with him and I am not worried she would ever treat him badly. I know I won't win any awards if I were to divorce my pregnant BPD wife I'm just not sure what to do here. I feel like I owe it to my unborn child to try and make this work especially if she is going to really work on herself with DBT. At the same time I'm reading so many articles that says she won't change even with the right therapy so I'm worried. I also have no idea how this would work moving forward. She's pregnant! I feel like both the biggest a-hole and justified all at the same time. Is it better for my kids if I leave so they at least have one stable non-BPD parent they can live with part of the time? Is it better for me to stay and be supportive of my BPD wife and kids? I have no idea. I can justify all of the above with great reasons I'm just so lost.

My friend said I should lawyer up but I'm having a kid with her! She's not a horrible person she just can't control herself when it comes to her emotions and those very very close to her. In all honesty, if she wasn't pregnant I think I would leave but this makes things very complicated especially since she is self aware and willing to work on it. So much damage has been done to both of us over the years I'm just not sure if there is any recovery. I'm a changed person from all of this and not for the better. Anyone else ever go through this? I can't be the first person in this situation.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Hi spin/stuck,

Welcome ,

I'm sorry that things have been so hard for you. WHen was the last time your wife was physically violent towards you?

My first concern is for your safety and the safety of your son. I would suggest that you review our Safety First and begin developing a plan for you and your son in the event that your wife begins to get physically violent again. Exiting the house during these times is best when possible so that you do not expose yourself or your son to harm.

As for the verbal and emotional abuse going on, what kinds of things upset your wife? How do you usually respond when she starts to yell or get angry?

[Perseverant]

Boy, does your situation resonate with me. I am truly sorry to hear of your dilemma.

I'm coming from the perspective of the wife of an undiagnosed BPD husband. Circumstances worsened whenever I was pregnant. I suppose that was because pregnancy implies lots of upcoming changes and responsibilities, which scared and intimidated my uBPDh. I mention this not to hijack the thread, but to explain where I'm coming from.

Others with more experience should feel free to contradict me, but I would do two things. First, I would speak to a lawyer or two, just to understand the lay of the land in the event you ultimately opt to end the marriage. Get an understanding of what you need to do to protect yourself and your children.

The second thing I would do is enlist the help of your therapist(s) in ensuring your wife commits to and follows through with treatment. I'm not talking about issuing an ultimatum ("you get better or else we're done!" but about helping your wife find the motivation to work on herself. She sounds motivated already, and having a diagnosis helps.

Bonus third thing - work on finding healing/resolution of the resentment you are carrying. Whether the marriage continues or not, that iron brick of anger and mistrust sitting on your chest will continue to crush your spirit. I myself am in that exact place right now. We also have a 3-year -old whose terror and confusion in the face of daddy's rages shreds me to ribbons. I have just begun seeking resources to help with the anger, so I don't yet have specific recommendations.

Basically, my approach is to hope for and work toward the best outcome, but be realistic and also prepare for the worst. That's just me. I'm no therapist or legal expert. But, I am an expert at cowering from a sometimes deranged BPDh for 19 years. I'm stumbling toward changing the relationship dynamics and improving myself, while also being realistic that success is not all up to me.

Best to you, and congratulations on baby #2! You are not, IMHO, an a-hole for having these thoughts. You sound like a well-balanced guy in a tough spot whose primary motivation is creating a safe and sane environment for his family. That burden, fair or not, falls mainly on you as the non-BPD.

[AskingWhy]

spin/stuck, welcome to the forums.  I am so glad you wife is starting DBT.  

I am sorry, though, that you are going through this, but at least you are here, know the issues and possible diagnosis of your wife, and looking for help.

We have all been in your shoes.  Living with a volatile BPD spouse (or other personality disorders in addition, such as NPD) is painful and will wear you down.  Many BPDs are highly functional and successful, as is your wife.

It's easy for other people (family and friends and even counselors) to scream "divorce," but it's not as easy as all that.

You have a young child and one on the way.  You must first ensure that your children are not affected/damaged by your wife's uBPD.  

BPD and other personality disorders can run in families, and often childhood environment can create a BPD adult or codependency issues that will need years of therapy.  Maybe you can see this in your in-laws--your wife's parents.  :)o you know your in-laws well enough to see this in them and why your wife is the way she is?

Making threats of divorce may not be the approach your wife needs unless it's your intention to carry through.  She is trying to come to grips with her issues of which she is certainly well aware, and is trying DBT.  You might wish to be supportive at this time and use some communication techniques you find on this forum.

In fact, divorce threats are often used by pwBPD themselves in order to get the nonBPD spouse to comply with a demand.  It is one of the uses of Fear, in the FOG dynamic of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.  A threat of divorce makes one Fear the loss of the relationship.

If you have not already done so, please watch this film and read the articles and they might validate what you already know, and you might learn some more facts of BPD.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/Dr-Jekyll-and-Mr-Hyde

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

[spin/stuck]

AskingWhy, thank you for writing and sharing your thoughts. Thank you too for the links, I'll read through/watch what you've sent. You mentioned that it might not be the best way to threaten divorce to get her to act and I agree with you. It wasn't a threat so much as a very honest/calm talk about my own limits and I have now reached them. That I need her to seek treatment otherwise I will not stay because I can't handle this any longer. Even if we do end up divorced I want her to get the right treatment so she can be happier and easier to be around. If anything I don't want our kids to know this side of her and I know she doesn't want that either.

My number one priority is my son and daughter that's on the way. And that's why I'm struggling so much. I'm just not sure what will be better in the long-run. I keep going back and forth but I think I'm going to try to work with her on this the best I can. If I don't see any progress in the near future I will need to rethink everything.

You asked about my in-laws. Yes, I know them very well. I live with one of them (her mom) and as hard as that can be she's a huge huge huge help to our house especially when my wife is working so much or when she has a meltdown. She comes from a home where she witnessed her father abuse her mom when he was drunk. She was young and saw horrible things. She and her sister were expected to call their uncle when he started hitting her mom. He'd come over and break it up. The police were never called. She has a very very complicated relationship with her mom so having her live with us adds another layer of childhood trauma and memories. We both agree she's better living here and helping us than not so we've all learned to live together. My mother-in-law is a traumatized women from her years of abuse. She turns into a statue and isn't able to function when my wife rages. Her trauma takes over. It's all part of our home BPD pattern. Eventually my wife will apologize to her when she calms down and everything goes back to normal. Like nothing really happened. It's very strange.

I'm traumatized from her rage as well. It takes many forms. One of my least favorite is texting. She sends me a wall of texts and they come in like machine gun fire which sends my heart racing. On top of the texts I "had to" buy a fitbit so I wouldn't miss any of her texts so it vibrates on my wrist. Which only adds to my stress. I feel like a dog on a leash. If I don't answer her in what she deems a quick enough time I will be accused of ignoring her which is more cause for rage and arguing... .thus the fitbit solution. It's the only reason I have it! I could care less about how many steps I walk.

Anyone have their BP jump out of a car? I can't tell you how many times she's jumped out of the car at a stop light or demanded I pull over so she can walk... .only for me to slowly follow her which looks really creepy by anyone passing by. The routine is I eventually have to get out of the car and apologize and ask her to get back in the car. Plead with her. The worst is if there are a lot of people around which makes me super uncomfortable. She couldn't care less about public displays of anger (directed at me). It's humiliating. I've told her as much but it doesn't matter when she's in that state of mind. She can't help it.    

I went on a bit of a tangent there. Venting. Thanks again AskingWhy

[spin/stuck]

Perseverant,
Thank you for your thoughtful advice. I appreciate your perspective on this as a mom. I know her being pregnant does not at all help in the mood-swing/hormone department. It's much much worse. Which is another point... .will it get better once the baby is here? Perhaps but then life becomes even more stressed and complicated handling two little ones. Plus post partum is pretty much guaranteed (happened the last time... .horrible for all). So we will need to plan the hell out of this with as much support as possible.

I am going to contact an attorney to get an idea of just what is involved with divorce should it come to that. I want to be as prepared and informed as possible.

Yes, I need to work on myself. I need to dump all this anger and baggage. I was thinking of joining a group if one exists. I have to start moving forward with my life with or with out here. I need to take it back. I've been lost for years and I feel like Neo now. I can see the Matrix. 

[AskingWhy]

Anyone have their BP jump out of a car? I can't tell you how many times she's jumped out of the car at a stop light or demanded I pull over so she can walk... .only for me to slowly follow her which looks really creepy by anyone passing by. The routine is I eventually have to get out of the car and apologize and ask her to get back in the car. Plead with her. The worst is if there are a lot of people around which makes me super uncomfortable. She couldn't care less about public displays of anger (directed at me). It's humiliating. I've told her as much but it doesn't matter when she's in that state of mind. She can't help it.    

I went on a bit of a tangent there. Venting. Thanks again AskingWhy

spin/stuck, I am glad you are seeing the pieces of the puzzle.  Lots of BPD and/or NPD to go around in your wife's family and codependency/enabling in many places.

Your wife's rages may have caused you to have C-PTSD (Complex PTSD), which is common in abusive relationships.  It's PTSD over a long period of time of abusive events.  This is where we get the expression "walking on eggshells" for the nonBPD partner.

I have not had my uBPD/uNPD H leave a car as a passenger, but one time H was driving and he started to rage at me.  I was trying to elicit sympathy for my medical procedure.  (In truth, H resented me having the procedure because that meant I was of no use to him.)  When H starts to rage, he is in a blind rage without any morals or sense of reason--just like a raging toddler having a tantrum.  (BPDs have the emotions of small children.)  H stopped the car in the middle of street while driving in the lane, put it in park, got out of the car and walked away around the corner and out of my sight.  I panicked in the passenger seat as I had just had a medical procedure and was ordered not to drive.  The car could have been rear-ended with me in it from oncoming traffic.  I was hobbling and trying to get out of the passenger seat and around the car and into the driver's seat to at least pull the car safely over to the curb when H returned still in a rage.  I asked him if he felt any guilt over leaving me in traffic and he screamed, "Talk to me that way again and I will leave you stranded again!"  Then he called me names like the b-word and the c-word.

My H has no intention to go to counseling as he thinks he does not have a problem, but sees me as the problem.  He comes from a very dysfunctional family with a uNPD father and codependent mother.   He is unable, or I should say unwilling, to look into his family and see just how bad things were.    He has raged less since I changed my communication style with him.  I no longer confront or rage back.  It's a way of diffusing the situation.  I also don't respond to his divorce threats or his withholding of affection. (He has made divorce threats over the last ten years of a +20 year marriage.)

It's good you always have divorce as the escape hatch in case it comes to pass and you see no end to your pain or to protect your children.

I am also glad to hear you are going to enter counseling alone for your piece of mind.

[Perseverant]

I haven't seen The Matrix, but I've spent plenty of time being lost. Carve out some space for building yourself back up. Being the spouse of a very high maintenance person of any sort (mental or physical disability) is a soul-sucking experience. Like they say on airplanes, put your own oxygen mask on first.

My hope is that it can work out for you all. By coming here and taking steps to end the drama cycle, you're upping your odds that everyone can emerge less damaged than they otherwise may have been. At least, that's what I tell myself. 

[MrRight]

Hi spin/stuck

yes I was in that situation - 3 y/o son etc - raging wife. Though I was careful with contraception once I realised I had married an unbalanced person.

He is 14 y/o now - yes I stuck it out. why? I wanted to leave but did not think it fair to leave a young child fully exposed to her potential rages and paranoid way of looking at the world. At least there's one normal parent in the household.

You now have a second child on the way. So need to be cautious and think about them first, in my view.

But your situation could potentially improve if your wife is going to follow through with therapy so perhaps you should give that a chance?

I know how you feel with zillions of texts arriving.

[spin/stuck]

MrRight,
Thank you for your thoughtful response and perspective. I'm going to try and stick it out to see how she does with DBT. If things don't improve then I'll need to rethink our situation especially since kids are involved.

[spin/stuck]

AskingWhy, how have you managed a 20yr marriage with your H? What kind of toll has it taken on you? Do you feel like you are your own person? Do you feel like you are the best version of yourself? I keep asking myself that and I know I'm not. How do you cope? Are you happy? If you had one more year to live what would you do with it? This is a question I've been asking myself and it helps to put things in perspective. I believe we have once shot at this.

Before we were married I felt life was so fun and free. I felt comfortable with myself and where I was at. I know marriage and kids changes everything but this is a change I never imagined growing up. I came from a loving/stable home so I know what that is "supposed" to be like. We don't have that. At least not yet. I know each family is different and each idea of "normal" is different but over the years the voice inside kept getting louder and louder telling me something isn't right. Fighting is normal but it shouldn't be THIS hard. We shouldn't be fighting THIS much over just about everything. 

So far my W is not telling me what she's actively going to do for her treatment which has been a very sore spot in our relationship at the moment. I need to know. I'm going to talk with her this weekend if she is around. She has a ton of work so I'm not sure if I'll have a chance. I don't think she understands the extent of trauma/damage her BPD has caused over the years. I think she thinks it's not much or is in denial.

[MrRight]

AskingWhy, how have you managed a 20yr marriage with your H? What kind of toll has it taken on you? Do you feel like you are your own person? Do you feel like you are the best version of yourself? I keep asking myself that and I know I'm not. How do you cope? Are you happy? If you had one more year to live what would you do with it? This is a question I've been asking myself and it helps to put things in perspective. I believe we have once shot at this.

Before we were married I felt life was so fun and free. I felt comfortable with myself and where I was at. I know marriage and kids changes everything but this is a change I never imagined growing up. I came from a loving/stable home so I know what that is "supposed" to be like. We don't have that. At least not yet. I know each family is different and each idea of "normal" is different but over the years the voice inside kept getting louder and louder telling me something isn't right. Fighting is normal but it shouldn't be THIS hard. We shouldn't be fighting THIS much over just about everything. 

So far my W is not telling me what she's actively going to do for her treatment which has been a very sore spot in our relationship at the moment. I need to know. I'm going to talk with her this weekend if she is around. She has a ton of work so I'm not sure if I'll have a chance. I don't think she understands the extent of trauma/damage her BPD has caused over the years. I think she thinks it's not much or is in denial.

I really hope for your sake she will go ahead with some therapy.
Mine went for some sessions with a psychologist on another matter - but she was not in earnest about it and more or less wasted the sessions. I'm afraid it's the same old story - "it's not me with the problem - I dont need to change - you do"

Keep asking her about the therapy - as she may just hope if you dont talk about it - it will quietly go away and she can pretend she never promised to do the therapy at all.

My mum emailed me today imploring me not to make any move away from the family until S14 is much older. Of course she doesn't know the full extent of all this.

Well good luck - you know my view.

[teapay]

I pressured the heck out of my W to do DBT, as did others.  She did do it, but it took at least a year to see much and then it has been mostly effective against the more severe behaviors, not the nutty distorted thinking or lying or less damaging implus I've behaviors.  Those take longer and all contigent on her willings.

A key to changing BPD behavior is implementing boundaries and consequences.  Validate, but only what is valid to a normal reasonable person.

[AskingWhy]

AskingWhy, how have you managed a 20yr marriage with your H? What kind of toll has it taken on you? Do you feel like you are your own person? Do you feel like you are the best version of yourself? I keep asking myself that and I know I'm not. How do you cope? Are you happy? If you had one more year to live what would you do with it? This is a question I've been asking myself and it helps to put things in perspective. I believe we have once shot at this.

Before we were married I felt life was so fun and free. I felt comfortable with myself and where I was at. I know marriage and kids changes everything but this is a change I never imagined growing up. I came from a loving/stable home so I know what that is "supposed" to be like. We don't have that. At least not yet. I know each family is different and each idea of "normal" is different but over the years the voice inside kept getting louder and louder telling me something isn't right. Fighting is normal but it shouldn't be THIS hard. We shouldn't be fighting THIS much over just about everything.  

So far my W is not telling me what she's actively going to do for her treatment which has been a very sore spot in our relationship at the moment. I need to know. I'm going to talk with her this weekend if she is around. She has a ton of work so I'm not sure if I'll have a chance. I don't think she understands the extent of trauma/damage her BPD has caused over the years. I think she thinks it's not much or is in denial.

spin/stuck, for many years I had no clue that BPD/NPD was the cause of my husband's volatility and rages.  I eventually learned to look at my own family of origin and that of my husband.  I concluded I was a codependent due to my own family issues, and learned my FIL is a uNPD and my MIL was a u/codepenedent.  My uBPD/uNPD H is in denial about how poorly mother was treated in her decades of marriage to his father.    H was very close to his mother.  Her death was a huge blow to him, but he still did not seek therapy.  Losing his father might be the life change to get him to start some introspection.

Yes, the marriage took its toll, and I had C-PTSD for some time.  The explosive rages and overall volatile nature of the relationship left me mentally shell-shocked.  H would punch holes in the walls, throw objects (but not at me), constantly make divorce threats and treat me like a subordinate at work.

Counseling has helped a lot.  It does become different with marriage and children, and my H is very enmeshed with his adult children.

Disengaging is now my main tool.  When H is raging or threatening, I just withhold all conversation.  When he threatens to leave, I simply state that it is his right to do so.  I don't try to persuade him to "talk it over" any longer because the drama is what he wants.  In a few hours, he calms down.   The next day he is fine.

Understanding the dynamics of BPD are important to managing the rages and threats.  I am now much happier that I have taken a step back in the marriage and am no longer emotionally invested.  After all, I have no control over how he relates to his children or parents.  So, yes, I am happy in myself.  I no longer weight my marriage as a component of my personal happiness.  

It has not been easy, but after I woke up to the dynamics, I feel so much better about life.