What else can I do?

[ACF]

Hello All,

My husband has been diagnosed with BPD in the last 3 months.  We have been married for 19 years and have 2 children together. A daughter who is 11 and a son who is 7. I never saw any signs that he had anything wrong with him as he doesn't have anger outburst and doesn't have impulsive behavior.  I have never seen him have bad relationships.  I would say that he is a quiet borderline.  It wasn't until Sept. of 2018 that things got bad.  Now he has self harmed he has suicidal thoughts.  He doesn't know if he should be married.  There is just so much going on and I feel like I'm trying to hold our family together.  I love my husband very much and I doing research on BPD.  I've read books and I'm on an FB support group.  My husband is in despair and having a very hard time accepting that he has this illness. His psychologist says that she doesn't want him starting DBT until he accepts it. I don't know what more I can do.  He is drinking to try an cope with all the emotions he is having.  I find myself trying to stay away from him because I don't want to do or say the wrong thing.  I don't want him to think that I'm judging him but I don't think drinking and listening to depressing music helps.  While going through all of this my daughter is struggling with anxiety and mild depression.  I'm trying to figure out when do I just let him start dealing with this on his own so that I can focus my attention on my daughter. I also need to have time for my son.  I feel like I have to make hard choices on my own and that I'm a single parent.  What do I do? TIA

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[No-One]

My husband is in despair and having a very hard time accepting that he has this illness. His psychologist says that she doesn't want him starting DBT until he accepts it. I don't know what more I can do.  He is drinking to try an cope with all the emotions he is having.  I find myself trying to stay away from him because I don't want to do or say the wrong thing.  I don't want him to think that I'm judging him but I don't think drinking and listening to depressing music helps.  

ACF:
Welcome!  This is a safe place for you to share.

I hear how hard it is for your right now.  That's a tall task for you to try and help your husband and daughter at the same time. I can certainly understand that you feel like a single parent, with a lot of pressure you.

So sorry to hear that your husband is struggling. How long has it been since he self-harmed?  Is he taking any meds to hopefully help with his depression and/or anxiety? Is he able to hold a job, at the current time?

Is your husband mostly anxious?  Thinking that might be why he is going for alcohol.

Your husband needs to find better ways to cope, rather than using alcohol and mellow music.  Best to replace that habit with some new healthier ones. If he isn't receptive to a conversation with you about it, perhaps you could contact his therapist and suggest that she do some coaching in that regard.

Has he had any healthy interests or hobbies in the past that he could revive.  How about some form of exercise?   Instead of mellow music, perhaps you could get him to join you in watching a movie (perhaps a comedy)?

A couple aspects of DBT are to learn  distress tolerance tools and ways to improve the moment.  Although his therapist doesn't want him to learn DBT skills in general right now, he need to learn healthy skills to manage his anxiety and/or depression.  

It can be better to NOT focus on labels (like BPD), but to focus on symptoms and ways to manage them (i.e. anxiety & depression).  Do you think that the situation with your husband is causing your daughter's anxiety/depression?  

If you go towards the bottom of this page, you will find a link to Suicide (and domestic violence) assistance.  You might want to check it out.  You should find info. there about making a safety plan.  

[ACF]

Hi,

Thanks for the response.  He self harmed on March 22nd.  He does have anxiety and depression. He is in the military and does go to work on time. I think he could have some PTS but not combat related.  He takes atarax for the anxiety and just increased his prozac to 40mg on Thursday.  He says he drinks because of the constant running thoughts in his mind.  He does crossfit but says it doesn't help like it use to. He still goes but has days that he just sits in the sauna. My husband is 39 and even though he has probably experienced this most of his life, I think the stress of retirement just pushed him over the edge. He has never been violent towards me or our children.  Honestly we never have yelling screaming matches...ever.  We have had disagreements but never screaming. Which is why I think I have been so shocked by all of this.  Everything I read about BPD isn't my husband.  I wish he would find better coping skills and I don't even know who to tell him that I wished he didn't drink or listen to sad music because I don't want him to think I'm judging him.

As far as my daughter goes, I'm not going to say that she doesn't notice some differences but the kids don't know what's going on with my husband.  I noticed her anxiety when she was in kindergarten.  I have anxiety and depression.  I'm in therapy and started going back to church to help myself.

[No-One]

He takes atarax for the anxiety and just increased his prozac to 40mg on Thursday.

I just read about Atarax.  It's an interesting med that is used for both allergies and anxiety (nonaddictive).  I saw that it had a warning about use with alcohol (something to be cautious about).

Sounds like they are trying to find an optimum dosage for the prozac. It might take a few weeks to see some improvement.

  He says he drinks because of the constant running thoughts in his mind.  He does crossfit but says it doesn't help like it use to. He still goes but has days that he just sits in the sauna.

Breathing exercises can be very helpful.  Check out the ones at the link below.  The "4-7-8" one is highly recommended.
www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART00521/three-breathing-exercises.html

The breathing exercises are something you can do anywhere, and no one knows that you are doing them.  Perhaps he could try it, while in the sauna.

He might consider trying some other exercise.  A walk, with breathing exercises is something to try.

Meditation is something that can quiet the mind.  There is a great free app that you can install on your phone, "Insight Timer" (both Apple & Android).  It has a lot of different forms of meditation to try.  Some of them are guided meditations in various forms.  Perhaps it is something you might want to try out yourself and then share your experience with your husband.

Also, Youtube has some wonderful free guided meditations that you can download and put on a phone or other device, or just bookmark and stream.

I know that some people shy away from meditation, because they think all forms are a conflict with their religious faith.  There are plenty of different forms, many of which shouldn't seem like a religious conflict.  Some go through the body and lead you to relax your body a section at a time, others guide you through and imaginary walk on the beach (park, mountain, etc.).  You will find that you will like some recordings better than others.  Some have music in the background, some voices appeal to you versus others, etc.

Everything I read about BPD isn't my husband.

The therapist is probably focusing on the selfharming.  Diagnosing BPD can be subjective.  A person is supposed to have 5 of the 8 attributes to get the diagnosis.  Technically, saying he has some strong individual BPD traits might be more accurate. 

 

I wish he would find better coping skills and I don't even know how to tell him that I wished he didn't drink or listen to sad music because I don't want him to think I'm judging him.

As far as my daughter goes, I noticed her anxiety when she was in kindergarten.  I have anxiety and depression.  I'm in therapy and started going back to church to help myself.

The information about validation/don't invalidate, at the link below should be helpful:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Perhaps, if you explore some breathing exercises and some meditation practices on your own, you can eventually get your husband to try them.  These self-soothing techniques can be valuable tools for your children to learn as well.  Sounds like there is a genetic component for anxiety within the family.  It could be beneficial if both you and your husband learn tools to cope with and manage anxiety and then share these skills with your children.

So what do you think?  Are you willing to explore some of the breathing exercises and perhaps some form of meditation?

[ACF]

I absolutely want to do anything I can to help him.  I know that I need to have a hard conversation with him.  I recently saw a live video on the mighty of a woman describing her OCD.  I never knew how terrible it could be. The thing that caught my attention was the intrusive thoughts part of it.  I know that he could have both but I wonder if it could be OCD and not BPD.  I honestly don't know what symptoms of BPD he has because we have never talked about it.  Other then talking about his drinking and self harm, we don't talk about the diagnosis.  These past few months I have just been so afraid of him leaving us. 

[No-One]

I know that he could have both but I wonder if it could be OCD and not BPD.  I honestly don't know what symptoms of BPD he has because we have never talked about it.  Other then talking about his drinking and self harm, we don't talk about the diagnosis.  These past few months I have just been so afraid of him leaving us.  

BPD isn't the same for everyone. Commonly, people with BPD have several mental health issues (and many have previously had a different diagnosis).  Anxiety and depression are the most common issues, but some people might have one or more of the following: bipolar, PTSD, ADHD, OCD and others.

Many people who are anxious and depressed have problems managing their emotions and finding ways to self-soothe in healthy ways. Some people get angry and violent, others self-harm.I'd focus on tools to improve his anxiety and depression and his inability to quiet his mind.  When those issues are managed successfully, the urge to self-harm will likely go away. At that point, it might be easier to work on other issues he may have.    

If you would like to learn a little about DBT, you might want to visit the www.DBTselfhelp.com website.  The DBT skills are good skill for anyone to learn, whether they have a diagnosis of BPD or not.  Check out the website, click around and see what it's all about.  After that, maybe you might want to show it to your husband to get an idea of what is involved in DBT therapy.  Don't get hung up on a diagnosis of BPD.  Think of it as an opportunity for him to learn some valuable skills.

These past few months I have just been so afraid of him leaving us.

What makes you think he might leave you?  Has he threatened to do that in the past?  Does he seem to have a fear of abandonment?


  

[itsmeSnap]

Hey ACF

No-One has some very good points 

Best to replace that habit with some new healthier ones
It can be better to NOT focus on labels (like BPD)
Diagnosing BPD can be subjective.  A person is supposed to have 5 of the 8 attributes to get the diagnosis.
Commonly, people with BPD have several mental health issues

I know that he could have both but I wonder if it could be OCD and not BPD.

I am not trained to diagnose anything, but I know my anxiety, had frequent panic attacks when I was young and still have episodes from time to time, most recently this last weekend.

The racing thoughts and feelings of impending doom are very hard to process.

You mentioned your husband being in the military and is retiring. I've read that the issue is often about feelings of losing the "team", they do a lot of teambuilding and group identity so that could be why the anxiety is flaring up over the coming retirement.

do you think he'd be open to participating in veteran/ex-military groups? maybe some community outreach program, some do charity work. Having a support network is very good for healing and growth, feelings of not being worthy and isolation are dispelled when you have like minded people around you and can help us feel safe and accepted while we work through issues (like you reaching out to the boards!)

I think he could have some PTS but not combat related.

Did he comment on something traumatic? you mentioned not noticing issues before until the diagnosis, was it the anxiety or self harm that lead to a therapist appointment?

[ACF]

@No-One.  I worry about him leaving because he says that he usually feels like running away.  In November, before the diagnosis, he was kind of rammbling and said he wasn't sure he believes in God and wasn't sure we should be married.  15 years ago we separated and first it was he wanted a divorce then he said he didn't but still wanted to separate.  I left town to stay with a friend and about a week later he was wanting me to come back home.  I look back now and see that the situations are the same as far us him not knowing if he wants to be married but this time is 10x worse because we have children now.  I don't know if he has a fear of abandonment.  He was a military bratt and his dad was in the Army and he was gone a lot.  Was even in the gulf war.  Even when his dad was home they didn't really have a good relationship. He says that he didn't experience any trauma as a kid but he was bullied and beat up a lot.

@itsmeSnap I do think that retirement brought all of this to the for front.  He ended up in therapy because he was on a trip to Hawaii in September and he said he kind of had an out of body experience and he was watching himself and saying don't hurt yourself.  That scared him so when he got back he made a dr appointment.  Now he has a lot of suicidal thoughts and he has self harmed.  He did speak with his therapist today about his drinking so now she wants him to do and evaluation because she thinks he could be on the coups of being an alcoholic.  I wouldn't say that I think he is an alcoholic but he has definitely been using drinking as a way to cope.

[No-One]

@No-One.  I worry about him leaving because he says that he usually feels like running away.  In November, before the diagnosis, he was kind of rammbling and said he wasn't sure he believes in God and wasn't sure we should be married.  15 years ago we separated and first it was he wanted a divorce then he said he didn't but still wanted to separate.  I left town to stay with a friend and about a week later he was wanting me to come back home.  I look back now and see that the situations are the same as far us him not knowing if he wants to be married but this time is 10x worse because we have children now.  I don't know if he has a fear of abandonment.  He was a military bratt and his dad was in the Army and he was gone a lot.  Was even in the gulf war.  Even when his dad was home they didn't really have a good relationship. He says that he didn't experience any trauma as a kid but he was bullied and beat up a lot.  

Just wondering about some of the reasons why your husband didn't have a good relationship with his father?  Could his father of had some traits of a personality disorder?  Perhaps his father was too critical?   Unpacking that situation might be helpful in understanding your husband's behaviors.

He could have a fear of abandonment, but not be able to admit it or perhaps recognize it.  The links below lead to some info. and discussions you might find interesting.  The titles are different, but the information is similar:

Abandonment: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47237.0

Fear of Engulfment:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281066.0

Intimacy: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79300.

You might find some helpful info. in this thread, as well:
Depression & Suicidal Ideation
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69192.0

[ACF]

I wonder if his father could have some traits of his own.  I have pretty much known his father all my life.  My mother and my husband's mother have known each other since they were 8 years old.  When my in laws were married I always knew my father in law to be nice.  He was pretty reserved but could have a good time. Of course he was in the army so I wasn't consistency around him until I was about 13 years old.  My in laws marriage was not the best.  Lots of infidenlity. Some on her part and many on his.  My father in laws up bringing was hard. Grew up very poor.  He didn't know his dad really.  He had a brother who was murdered when he was a kid.  I could go as far as to say that he didn't know how to be a dad or a husband.  Home life was very disfunctional.  I'm sure my husband was a sensetive child.  He never speaks about his father being critical of him, just that they never had anything in common until he joined ROTC when he was in 9th grade.

[No-One]

When my in laws were married I always knew my father in law to be nice. . .   Lots of infidelity. Some on her part and many on his.   He didn't know his dad really.  He had a brother who was murdered when he was a kid.  I could go as far as to say that he didn't know how to be a dad or a husband.  Home life was very dysfunctional.  I'm sure my husband was a sensitive child.  He never speaks about his father being critical of him, just that they never had anything in common until he joined ROTC when he was in 9th grade.

With all the affairs, with both parents, is it a certainty that he is his father's biological son?  Sounds like the in-laws are divorced now.

Was his dad a career Army person?  Did they move around a lot?  Father deployed abroad a lot?  How are they different, in regard to interests? (other than ROTC)?  Perhaps his dad just didn't make an effort to develop shared interests with his son?

With both parents having a history of cheating multiple times, sounds like he had poor role models. One parent with one episode of cheating can make an impact, but wow, both parent with multiple episodes each!  That has to have an impact and make for an unstable family dynamic.

Have you discussed this situation with him?  How he felt about his parents infidelity?  The time his dad spent with other women, likely took away from time he could have spent with your husband. 

Does he have any other siblings (other than the one that was killed)? 

[ACF]

Hello. Sorry I've been taking some time.  He is his father's child. My mil didn't start having an affair until my husband was much older.  My fil was career army and was gone a lot.  My husband doesn't really speak much about his childhood other then being bullied and beat up often. My sis in law says that their dad just wasn't a good dad and she has accepted that.  She also says she doesn't remember much about her childhood.  My father in law was the one that had the brother that was murdered.  My in laws are divorced now for 10 years.  He remarried in Jan of this year.  My mil, I believe is very bitter.  She will still post on FB the anniversary of her divorce and how her life changed forever.  That tells me she is not over it.  I don't blame her for being upset she was an army wife for 21 years and married almost 31 when her husband left her.  I don't want to say that she only had 2 affairs as if that is not bad but most of the infidelity was done by him.  Either way I'm sure my husband was impacted by that.  Today he had a meeting with his psychologist and she recommended that he do an inpatient mental health rehab.  Because he is not getting any better she feels he needs something more intensive before he retires.  She is afraid that once he retires he will get lost through the cracks and she doesn't want that for him.  He constantly has suicidal thoughts and self harm thoughts.  I'm pushing my way through this as much as I can but there are some days that I just feel like I can't.  I love him so much and I can't imagine a life without him in it.  I worry about how my kids will deal with that.  At the moment I am very much feeling emotionaly held hostage.  It's a terrible feeling to feel like the love of your life is just going to leave you. I know that he has most definetly split on me after talking to him last week.  I told him in Dec before the diagnosis that if he couldn't or didn't want to work on us then when school was done the kids and I would leave and move back home.  At that point I didn't know what was going on other then him always working or at the gym.  Hanging out with another woman and spending a lot of time with her and not me or the kids.  In Jan i told him that I didn't trust him with my feelings.  These things that I told him he says hes having a hard time getting past.  I didn't know what to say.  Honestly I was surprised and hurt because i have never thrown anything the he has said and done to me back in his face.  I am praying continually that God will work this out for my good.  I know that there is a real possibility that we don't work out in the end.  Is my marriage over?  Is there a chance that he will look at me one day and see why he married me?

P.S. I am trying to get connected into the Christian group but have been unsuccessful.  How do I get in? TIA

[No-One]

Today he had a meeting with his psychologist and she recommended that he do an inpatient mental health rehab.  Because he is not getting any better she feels he needs something more intensive before he retires.  She is afraid that once he retires he will get lost through the cracks and she doesn't want that for him.  He constantly has suicidal thoughts and self harm thoughts.

Do you think he will agree to inpatient care?  Is his retirement date set yet?  Sounds like a good idea for some intensive care.  

  At the moment I am very much feeling emotionally held hostage.  It's a terrible feeling to feel like the love of your life is just going to leave you. I know that he has most definitely split on me after talking to him last week.  I told him in Dec before the diagnosis that if he couldn't or didn't want to work on us then when school was done the kids and I would leave and move back home.  At that point I didn't know what was going on other then him always working or at the gym.  Hanging out with another woman and spending a lot of time with her and not me or the kids.  In Jan i told him that I didn't trust him with my feelings.  These things that I told him he says hes having a hard time getting past.  I didn't know what to say.  Honestly I was surprised and hurt because i have never thrown anything the he has said and done to me back in his face.

People with BPD tend to blame others and like to bring up past issues over and over again, instead of focusing on the subject at hand.

One method of sharing your feelings is to use "I" Statements:
The link below on how to use "I" statements, and the quote below, should be helpful:
"I" STATEMENTS

How To Use I-Statements:

Start by identifying how you feel: mad, sad, frustrated, etc.
I feel __________

State the reason you feel this way or what happened that led you to those feelings.
when __________

Try to identify the reason the person’s actions led to those feelings for you.
because __________

Let the person know what you want instead.
I would like __________ .

Example:
Your spouse snaps at you during dinner and it really hurt your feelings. Here’s an I-statement to use with this scenario:

I feel hurt when you snap at me like that because I worked hard to cook this nice dinner for us. I would like you to use nicer words and tone with me, and to know if something happened

Below are a couple of possible ways to word your feelings about your husband being away from home so much:
EXAMPLE 1:
I feel sad
When you are away from home so much
Because I love you and miss spending time with you
I would like it if we could plan weekly time together
EXAMPLE 2
I feel abandoned
When you are away from home so much
Because I love you and the children and I miss spending time with you as a family
I would like it if we could plan more family time together

 I am praying continually that God will work this out for my good.  I know that there is a real possibility that we don't work out in the end.  Is my marriage over?  Is there a chance that he will look at me one day and see why he married me?

P.S. I am trying to get connected into the Christian group but have been unsuccessful.  How do I get in? TIA

I think he will need to tame his suicidal ideations and get a handle on his anxiety and depression before he will be capable of working on your marriage.   Do you think his interest in the woman at the gym is perhaps a distraction for him right now (i.e. to avoid thinking about a diagnosis of BPD and managing his depression/anxiety), or could he be having an affair?

He might be reacting to your comment of possibly leaving when school is out, if he won't participate in working on the marriage.  Sometimes people with BPD will take steps to abandon someone before the other person does the abandoning.  It doesn't make sense, but they prefer to do the abandoning before they are abandoned.

I' m not aware of any Christian groups to support family members of someone with BPD.  Some people join an Al Anon group.  The link below leads to a Family Connections website:  https://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.org/family-connections/

Hopefully your husband goes to the inpatient care.  Can you seek some therapy for yourself, with a therapist who understands BPD?

It might be a good idea to focus on yourself right now and continue to learn more about boundaries, strategies and communication skills to use with your husband.  Perhaps, when you husband's mental health improves you could both go to couples counseling?  Does your husband share your Christian faith?

[ACF]

His retirement date is set for Nov. 1st. He could be done with work as early as July 22nd.  I'm hoping he will go to the inpatient care.  I honestly think that he would kill himself if he doesn't take the help.  I believe his doctor wants him to do the inpatient before he retires. 
I try my best to use the I statements.  But talking to him can be so difficult.  It's constant contradictions.  He has learned to try and say what I hear in my head statements.  Which I understand.  But it doesn't work if he says what I hear in my head and I try to clarify and he still believes or holds onto what he hears.  Maybe all these years he has held onto things I have said and never expressed them.

I agree that he needs to get his suicidal thoughts under control before we work on the marriage, but it is incredible hard and hurtful.  As for the other woman, I don't know if that's a distraction for him or if it's really him finding a new favorite person. I have asked him if he is having an affair and he says no, but I find it to be very disrespectful for me to ask him that and he continues to hang out with her. I often wonder if his head is telling him he doesn't have feelings for me and he is so disconnected maybe he thinks it's okay for him to do what he wants with no regard to how I feel.  My "old" husband would have been mortified if I would have asked such a question and try everything he could to make it right.  Even if that meant not speaking to that woman again.  He use to use the gym to try and tame what he was feeling and it has just become harder and harder for him to do it.  I think it was really a way of not dealing with it.  I also believed that he was always working or at the gym because he felt like he was unable to maintain the expectations that he sent for himself as a father and a husband.

He use to share the same Christian beliefs.  We got married in church because he wanted us to.  I grew up in church and he did not. He has a degree in divinity. I am seeing my own therapist who has some work with BPD and DBT.

[No-One]

I try my best to use the I statements.  But talking to him can be so difficult.  It's constant contradictions.  He has learned to try and say what I hear in my head statements.  Which I understand.  But it doesn't work if he says what I hear in my head and I try to clarify and he still believes or holds onto what he hears.  Maybe all these years he has held onto things I have said and never expressed them.

Have you asked your husband to elaborate on "hearing things in his head".  Does he mean that he keeps ruminating about certain things over and over again (and becomes obsessed).  The information at the two links below on ruminations and mental scripts could  be helpful to read.

Dealing With Ruminations
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103396.0;all
Emotional Memory Management
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103393.0;all

Rumination can become a problem when someone is dealing with anxiety/depression.  People with BPD traits can be "grudge holders".  It seems to be a common situation for people with BPD (or traits) to just hold onto everything they ever thought you did wrong.  Instead of discussing the subject at hand, they seem to keep a mental "bad list" for you.  They use it to blame you for situations from the beginning of time (at least it can seem that way).

I agree that he needs to get his suicidal thoughts under control before we work on the marriage, but it is incredible hard and hurtful.  

You might want to talk to your personal therapist.  Although regular marriage counseling may not be advisable right now, you might want to inquire as to whether it could be helpful to have a joint session or two to perhaps discuss the thoughts your husband can't get past.  He needs to learn ways to stop ruminating.

Have you asked your husband if he has talked about his ruminating thoughts to his therapist?  I'm thinking this is something he could use some coaching on.  He has likely developed some bad habits and needs to establish some new healthier habits to replace the bad ones.  

He use to share the same Christian beliefs.  We got married in church because he wanted us to.  I grew up in church and he did not. He has a degree in divinity.

What do you think motivated him to get a degree in divinity?  If I'm understanding correctly, he didn't go to church, while growing up.  Does he perform duties of a chaplain, while in the military?  Is it possible he pursued a degree in divinity, thinking it could cure the void he might have been feeling from anxiety/depression?

[ACF]

When he says "what I hear in my head" it's how his mind processes what I'm saying.  An example would be, I told him that if he didn't want to work on the marriage or couldn't then when the kids where out of school I would go back to Texas.  In his head he thinks I'm leaving so he could work on himself when in fact I thought he was having an affair.  He says nothing about that when we talked about that. As far as us going to counseling together, even if it was one or two sessions, I don't think at this point it will help.  I don't even know if he loves me or wants to be with me.  He just says he's confused about it.  He tells me he loves me but there is no action behind it.  When I ask how can you be confused and and say that you love me he says because it's not a feeling, it's what's in my head.  He also says he knows he can be making a huge mistake if he does leave. Other then learning ways to not self harm, I don't know what he speaks to his psychologist about.

As far as him getting a degree in divinity, I believe he did it because at the time we were very involved in church at that time.  He even thought he wanted to become a pastor.  He is not a Chaplin although he did think about it. As a young airmen, alone, he had a bought of what was probably BPD.  He did have suicidal ideation and he had a friend who was a Christian and after that he started studying the bible himself and he became a Christian.  It's possible that he thought it would make him feel better. From what he says it could have been the black and white thinking. Because of the black and white thinking he was "all in" when it came to being a Christian.

He did make the decision to go to inpatient treatment.  I am happy about that but I have been a wreck this morning.  Her is currently on a work trip and I have a ton of anxiety about him being gone.  I feel like if I'm not around, he will just forget about me.  And who knows what he is going to be like when he does a 30 day treatment.

[No-One]

An example would be, I told him that if he didn't want to work on the marriage or couldn't then when the kids where out of school I would go back to Texas.  In his head he thinks I'm leaving so he could work on himself when in fact I thought he was having an affair. 

I think it's common for people to misunderstand each other, after a conversation.  Have you tried to dig a little deeper about his relationship with the woman at the gym? Perhaps mention that you were concerned that he was having an affair?  Even if there isn't a physical relationship between them, some people consider an emotional relationship just as damaging (maybe more).  How does he present their relationship, workout partners?

You mentioned "favorite persons".  Has it been his habit to have someone with whom he is obsessed with, someone he see's as "all good" and on a pedestal?

I don't even know if he loves me or wants to be with me.  He just says he's confused about it.  He tells me he loves me but there is no action behind it.  When I ask how can you be confused and and say that you love me he says because it's not a feeling, it's what's in my head.  

You might find the article at the PsychCentral link below, on "Love", interesting.  Here is an excerpt, before the link to the complete article:

     "Who we love is as much of a choice as it is a feeling. Staying in love takes a commitment. After the rosy glow of the new relationship wears off, we have to make a decision: Do we want to love this person and commit to a relationship together, or are we going to let this person go?" 

Love is a Choice More than a Feeling
https://psychcentral.com/blog/love-is-a-choice-more-than-a-feeling/

He did make the decision to go to inpatient treatment. He is currently on a work trip and I have a ton of anxiety about him being gone.  I feel like if I'm not around, he will just forget about me.  And who knows what he is going to be like when he does a 30 day treatment. 

He will be away from the woman at the gym, as well.  Perhaps that is a good thing.  I would think that he should gain benefits from his 30-day treatment.  If the focus is on DBT skills, he should learn coping skills and ways to manage his emotions better.  Additionally, they will likely take a closer look at his meds.  If the current ones aren't helping, they might try alternate meds.

Perhaps, you could have some strategic sessions with your therapist, during your husband's absence.  Plan and prepare for when you husband finishes his 30-day treatment.  Discuss what you want to improve in your marriage & do some prework for marriage counseling down the road.

I think I hear that you would like to have your husband spend more time with you and to have more family time.  What would that look like to you?  Maybe going to church as a family?  Having an occasional date night with each other? 

Retirement can be scary or it can be an exciting time, with new adventures.  Hopefully, he can get his depression and anxiety managed.  Then, he can work out other issues and hopefully start working on a new chapter in his life and your marriage.

[ACF]

Hello. The woman at the gym is also a coworker.  In the beginning he asked if I had a problem with him and her riding to the gym in the morning.  This was about a year ago.  In the beginning I didn't have a problem with it until I started feeling like he was becoming distant.  I would talk to him about it and he just said that he was in a funk.  When all of this came out I started to wonder if it was something more.  I asked him in November and December if he was having an affair with anyone.  I asked about his coworker and he said she is just a friend.  In Feb I had a conversation with him and asked him how could he still hang out with a woman that I asked if he was having an affair with?  The husband I know wouldn't have even continued with the friendship.  He continues to say that she is just a friend.  I continue to not like their friendship.  Maybe it comes from doing too much research about BPD and learning about splitting. Getting close to another woman has always been a boundary as it is for me to not have a close relationship to another man.  I worry about pushing the issue because what if she is a life line for him when he is suicidal?  He says she is someone else he can talk to.  I don't even know if its okay or right to try and have a conversation about our marriage before he goes to treatment.  I don't believe that he has had an obsession with other people.  Not that I have noticed.  Maybe with me. 

I will continue to see my therapist while he is gone. I have asked if he wanted to do marriage counseling.  He didn't say no but I get the feeling he doesn't want to.  Maybe he just can't handle it right now.  I would love for him to spend more time with us.  Going to church as a family would be nice but I know he is not there yet.  I just want him to be happy to be with us.  Most the time he doesn't want to be around anybody. I think that has to do with how he feels like a failure as a father and husband then it does about my children and myself.  I think that is why he stays away from home and us.  I spent Easter Sunday with my children and he spent it by himself.  This past Sunday he didn't go to work and I thought he would be home but nope he wan;t here.  Said he was getting anxious just being home so he went to the book store.  My children are starting to ask where he is more often now.

Date nights are not even a consideration.  Which hurts me.  I don't ask because I will just be rejected.

I just want to thank you for all of your responses.  You have been a great help to me.

[No-One]

Hi ACF:
I'm glad you find our dialog helpful.

Date nights are not even a consideration.  Which hurts me.  I don't ask because I will just be rejected. . .

My children are starting to ask where he is more often now. . .

Most the time he doesn't want to be around anybody. I think that has to do with how he feels like a failure as a father and husband then it does about my children and myself.    

Sounds like he may be using "all or nothing" logic.  No father is perfect.  A father who is interacting with and spending time with his children is at least trying.  A failure is someone who doesn't try.

A year or so ago, there was an ad campaign for foster parents that had a slogan:  “You don’t have to be perfect to be a perfect parent.”  I liked the message, as it showed some awkward men who weren't very athletic, but they were engaged with children having fun.  That was what mattered.

If he waits too long to start interacting and getting to know his children, he may miss the window of opportunity.  They will be teenagers before he knows it.

Hopefully, after his in-patient treatment, he will be more receptive to spending more time with both you and your children.  Start out with some baby steps that center around things he likes to do.  What could that be?  What did you use to do on dates?  What are some possible family activities you could engage him in?  (hiking, picnic, sports event, park, etc.)

Said he was getting anxious just being home so he went to the book store.   

Does he go to the book store a lot?  Not many around these days.  Perhaps the book store is associated with his military base, where perhaps he feels comfortable? 

Interesting that he wants to leave home when he is anxious.  Most people do the reverse and don't want to leave home.  I believe you indicated that he has some drinking issues.  Could he have actually gone out to drink on Easter? 

Getting close to another woman has always been a boundary as it is for me to not have a close relationship to another man.  I worry about pushing the issue because what if she is a life line for him when he is suicidal?   

If she has been a life line, it doesn't sound like a healthy situation.  When he retires, he won't likely see her again, unless there is more than a coworker relationship.

Does he tell you, when he feels suicidal, or do you have to guess?

He needs to come up with his own safety plan for what to do, when he feels suicidal.  You should have your own plan for what you can do it help.

Has a date been set yet for his 30-day inpatient therapy?

Will there be any opportunity for you to visit or communicate with him during that time?

[ACF]

Hello. So my husband went to inpatient May 8th and 6 days later he told the facility he was leaving. He came home on the 16th. I was disappointed because I know he couldn't have gotten help that quick. Everyone he spoke with telling him to stay and he didn't. He seemed to be saying all the right things and saying he wants to spend time with the kid  maybe go for a walk with them and me. He said he knows he wasnt doing his part in his recovery when he was here. I just don't know...

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear ACF-
I’m sorry for the pain and confusion your family has been facing, and very sorry for the sadness your H has been feeling.  Sadly, I know how both you and your husband feel.

I’ve read through your thread a few times and I have some observations, questions and suggestions.  Please keep in mind, I’m no expert, just another person who has lived this.

I kind of question your husband’s BPD diagnosis.  (Tho’ I have no professional grounds upon which to question the diagnosis). 

From your description of your dear husband’s behavior over the years, it doesn’t really sound as if he fits that many of the traits associated with a BPD diagnosis.  Many people struggle with periodic bouts of anxiety and/or depression at different points in their lives.  Many even have suicide ideation, but do NOT fit the criteria for a BPD diagnosis.  I may even go so far as to say that he may be feeling pigeonholed to “fit” into one psychologist’s opinion.  And he’s clearly suffering with that label.  You see that.  It also seems she may have jumped to a conclusion of saying he’s on the cusp of becoming an alcoholic.  Do YOU think he is?  I don’t know...something here just bothers me.  Not everyone who professes to be an expert is in fact an expert.  I had firsthand experience with an inept and cruel psychologist before I found the brilliant woman I work with now.  Both have the same credentials.

You state that since your H’s diagnosis, you have more or less distanced yourself from him.  ACF, he feels this...  I am hoping that you can lean INTO him rather than away from him.  If you want your H to feel comfortable and unafraid that you will leave him, you may need to take back your threat of leaving him.  And apologize to him.  Please see if you can approach him in a compassionate, loving and unselfish way.  Sit across from him with his hands in yours and tell him how much he means to you AND your children (“our” children).  Tell him you want to be WITH him in this...that you are NOT going to Texas and you should NOT have let negative emotions and fear rule your words.   See if you can open the dialogue between the two of you to find your way back to each other.  Tell him you WANT him.

Re:  the “other woman”...if your dear husband is experiencing suicide ideation, the chances are pretty slim he is engaging in an affair.  People who want to kill themselves generally don’t have the strength or the ego to enter an affair.  Please try to stop yourself from accusing him of that - it could feel to him as if you want him to go away.  That kind of accusation can feel like a harmful judgement to a person who’s in despair.  So again, lean into your husband.  If you love him, please don’t behave as if you want to push him away.

This woman could very well have been a lifeline for your husband, a real friend.  I am a woman who has had several male friends over the years; and my ex-husband had female friends.  He was less discerning than I.  What I did was invite his pretty constant stream of new women friends to our home for dinner. Some of them became good friends of mine.  It’s just something to consider... if you present this in a good light, your husband could feel very supported by you.  And both you and your H need and deserve support.

Please know my friend, I’m not intending to be “judgy”, I just feel this distance between you and your H, and I believe you can bridge that gap and help him feel more at home.  If he has temporarily lost faith in GOD, okay, it happens.  You can validate that it happens sometimes.  That he can have faith in himself, he can rely on your and your kids’ love for him, and when he’s ready, he can come to church with you.  No pressure.  You’ll come right home after church and the four of you will go for a picnic (or something) and spend time having fun.  Reconnect as a family.

Validate your H as a husband and a father.  Can you tell me why he feels a failure?  What has he said?  And ask him how you can help him to feel more loved and appreciated by you?  Assure him that you’re NOT giving up on him.  And if you can, explore with him the reasons the in-patient treatment did not feel right to him.  Allow him to speak without passing judgement.  It sounds to me as if you two may have stopped knowing one another.  This happens so often in couples.  We just have to pay  close attention to one another.  None of us are the same people we were when we met.  Sadly, in LT relationships we sometimes become like furniture that’s just been there.  But when there’s still love at the core, at the foundation, you can rearrange the room, redecorate and feel like it’s a brand new home.

Please don’t give up on yourself or your husband. 

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ACF]

Hello Gemsforeyes,

Thank you for your input. As far as my husbands diagnosed, he has been seeing his psychologist for about 6 months. He likes her better then the one he had previous to her. His psychologist saw him for about 6 wks when she diagnosed him with BPD. First she gave him some papers that had the symptoms on it and asked him to read over them to see what he thought. At that time she didn't give him the diagnosis.  A week later he saw her again and asked what she thought and she gave him that diagnosis. He says that the symptoms make sense to him. I read the symptoms and my first thought was this is not him. But I later found an article about quiet boarderline and that made sense to me. Everything is internal. I have to ask him if he feels like hes trying to fit into his doctor's diagnosis.
With the alcohol,  I wouldn't say he is an alcoholic but he does use it in a destructive way. He only drinks when his mind is dark. His dr did an assessment for alcohol abuse and the mental health facility did one also. They both said that he was on the cusp. If anything I think he is having a hard time saying yes I'm using alcohol in a bad way. He says he is aware it can turn into something bad quickly but he doesn't see that right now. He self harmed once when he was drunk and once when he wasn't so for him he thinks the drinking doesn't cause him to self harm. I disagree that he is aware. Dor the doctor it's the reasons why he is drinking that is concerning. He has a lot of suicidal ideation and she tells him that he can lose all interbitions and that could lead him to make irrational choices. He also seems drinking no different from taking anxiety medication. He says they do the same thing. To help him sleep. His dr tells hims that they are different and act different in the body. He will NOT agree with that. He has rationalized his thinking to tell himself he doesn't have a problem.

Now for me distancing myself from him. I came and I wasnt aware if it until my therapist pointed it out. It has been incredibly difficult for me to feel like i can even touch him. What do you do when your husband says he's not sure we should be married and also tells you that it's weird for me to touch him and show him affection? That hurt me to my core. The man i have always known him to be has always been very loving and affectionate. When I try to speak to him about how I feel and nothing changes, it is very hard for me to feel like I can talk to him. Whatever boundaries we had in our marriage are nonexistent. And the worse thing is to be sobbing and he just sits there, not making a move towards me, not saying anything. I have tried hard to stay affectionate and telling him I love him no matter what and this doesn't change how I feel about him. Then my husband turns it around and tells me that I'm acting like he's fine. What can I do? When I told him I was going to leave if he couldnt work on the marriage or because he was having an affair it was before he was diagnosed with BPD. I didn't know what the hell was going on. He's telling me he doesn't know if we should be married and spending his free time with another woman. I'm not saying that I have done everything right in this situation by any means and I'm trying to change how I look at this situation. I've read countless articles and read books on marriage and BPD.

I do wish I would have read this yesterday then maybe I wouldn't have brought up the other woman again. It comes up because nothing changes in that situation. I dont put it past anybody, in any situation, to have an affair. Our history speaks to that. It's hard not to look back to try and find some kind of understanding. My husband knows how I feel so when he knows this and doesn't change his interaction it make me feel like my feelings are not more important then the relationship he has with this other woman.  You say to have an open dialogue and he wants me to not hold back but I cant help but feel like both of you want me to be open only about certain things. I try to be open with my husband cause he says he wants honesty and I do that and it end up with "we keep coming back to this. "

I have tried to invite her to things and she doesn't come. She even had surgery and i told my husband that I could make her a meal and he looked at me like i was stupid and said why?

For church there is no pressure from me for him to go. My son ask him more about  why he doesn't go. My son is 7. I know all the pressure that he feels comes from himself. Nothing about this situation is easy for either of us but I know he won't get better until he wants to get better. I just pray and hope that help comes before he kills himself.  I will never give up on my husband. He is my heart and soul.  Thank you for your response.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear ACF-

I’m getting off topic, and will respond later to your post.

I do want to tell you about something I’ve been using since mid-February 2019 to treat my own anxiety, depression, c-PTSD and sleep issues (screaming nightmares).  I failed on 4 different anti-depressant medications- could NOT take them without bad side effects (mostly increased depression and suicide ideation).  I am 61 years old, and had been on an anxiety med since a traumatic event in 2011. 

In 2013 I met and fell in love with my uBPDbf.  He may be diagnosed, but I’ll likely not be told the truth of that due to his “shame” around that - not important.  I feel the impact.

A little over a year ago my best friend died suddenly, and BPDbf decided the best way to support me would be to scream and rage at me.  I sent him away from me.  I dove into my shadows and everything bad that ever happened in my past  came roaring to the surface.  I lost control of myself.  I sought help and had doors slammed in my face.  It not only felt that way, that’s how it was.  I came here and this is where I received the most support and started working through some stuff.  Old stuff.

I increased the anxiety meds to the prescribed dosage.  Went to one therapist while I waited for my current therapist to become available.  Counted the days... went to a psychiatrist, tried and failed on 2 antidepressants.  When I COULD sleep, I Didn’t understand why I was waking up each day.  Guessed it was for my dog.  Knew it was for my dog.

After medication failure, my therapist suggested I try this little machine called “Alpha-Stim” AID.  I rented it from her for 2 months and then I bought my own.

MIRACLE...  this thing uses cranial electronic stimulation (ear clips on your lobes), has a little machine the size of a transistor radio and I wear it for at least an hour a day.  No side effects.  I am OFF all meds.  Completely off, and that was NOT my goal.  I sleep through the night, with zero nightmares.  Before I began using the thing I decided not to read about it because I didn’t want to be swayed by literature.  I had positive results in just a few days.  And THEN I read about it.   I also take a B-complex vitamin.

The ALPHA-STIM is FDA cleared and is used by the VA for vets.  It is worth looking into.  I swear by it.  What a difference this thing has made in my life.  It is worth the price of my life.

This thing allows me to catch and release thoughts.  Perhaps it can help you and your H.  Sometimes the chemical meds just don’t provide the boost for certain people.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ACF]

Thank you. I will have to look into that. I agree about the meds. They have done little for my husband. Other then putting my husband to sleep, there isn't really a change in his anxiety and depression. I am looking into CBD oil for him but its tricky with my husband being active duty. The oil I'm looking at says it is undetectable but not sure if my husband wants to chance it.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear ACF-

I want to remind you of something.  Before you were a wife and a mother and a caretaker, and the person trying to hold it all together, you were you.  And you are still in there.  That girl is still in there. 

It is NOT selfish to engage in active self-care.  I know what I’m talking about here, and it took me way way too long to arrive at this mindset...I thought it was selfish.  It’s not.  We cannot help anyone else we love if we become a shadow of our former selves.  ACF - you HAVE to take care of yourself and realize that whatever your H is going through has little to do with you (tho’ it may not feel like that).

So... some suggestions:  MAKE yourself exercise when you have a free half-hour.  Go for a walk with music on your head.  Feel your body and stretch.  Ride bikes.  Do what’s called “progressive relaxation” on the floor with your kids (and your H).  Draw yourself a bubble bath, light a candle and soak (music on your head).  Quiet time for mom.  Invite your husband to enjoy a bubble soak after you (or with you, he may ask). Get yourself off caffeine and sugary drinks (if you drink sodas or coffee) to reduce anxiety; and look into foods that reduce anxiety and eat them, serve them to your family (this works).  Start a journal and write to yourself - good things about yourself.  Take a summer art class, or a stand-up paddle board class or a yoga class, or a healthy cooking class (with or without your kids and H).  Try something you haven’t done.  Sometimes it’s not “why?”, it’s “why not?”

Nothing changes until something changes.  I understand that the changes in your husband and your marriage came as a shock to you and you may feel as if you’re teetering on the edge.  You likely feel as if you’re just waiting to see how you’re supposed to respond to whatever he may say or do.  That feels debilitating, crippling.  Who IS this man? 

While he figures out who he is, you can be there supporting him, but you can still move about your life, bettering yourself, strengthening yourself.  Don’t give up on you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ACF]

Thank you so much Gemsforeyes, for this.  I do have a therapist and I got an all womens group at church.  Which has been a life saver for me.  I do need to work out more and definitely eat better.  I know I need to live my life but it's been so hard just stepping out and doing things with my children when I have always waited to do things so my husband wouldn't miss out.  I have come to realize that that was not the best thing for me to do all these years.  I just wanted to have experiences as a family.  Now I know I have to step out and not just live for myself but for my children. Thank you again.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear ACF-

I completely understand including your dear children in plans when stepping out.  One idea (to give your H more encouragement to join in) could be to plan small weekend outdoor adventures- a half-day canoe trip and picnic; a family bike tour, a baseball game, etc.  something that you can all enjoy and your H will NOT want to miss.  What activities did your H enjoy when he was young?  You can look into what’s available in your area, brainstorm with the kids, and tell your H... we were talking about “X” , we’d like to try it together and want/ need your strength in the canoe, leadership / encouragement  on the bike trail, blah blah blah.

Not to jump the gun here, but as you begin to eat better, move your body, “play” with your kids, he’ll begin to remember the happier “you” he’s in love with.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[lonely38]

Your post speaks volumes to me.  I have been married for 40 years, most of which have been very turbulent with lots of infidelity on my BPD husband's part, alcohol abuse, verbal and emotional abuse, distancing, blaming, etc.  I never quite understood what was going on.  My husband had good times but then would go back to bad thinking, bad moods, etc.  I had a sense something was off but could never put a name to it.  I have carried lots of anxiety throughout the marriage.

This past year, my BPD husband retired and we moved.  EVERYTHING fell apart.  He basically lost it emotionally and all of 2018 was a disaster with lots of blaming on his part, including the emotional and verbal abuse.  He projects his bad feelings onto me.

My BPD husband has a very difficult childhood with an extremely dysfunctional family.  It is interesting to look at the dynamics of his family, including his siblings and their families.  It is apparent that dysfunction begets dysfunction unless there is an active choice made to get healthy.  Unfortunately, it seems when you have grown up in a dysfunctional family, you make very subconscious choices on how to live your life.

I empathize with you because you have children at home and you are trying to hold it together.  I did that too with children.  With the stress of 40 years and particularly with the stress of last year, I basically fell apart.

I would say at this time, please remember you cannot help anyone unless you help yourself first.  Practice lots of self care, soothing therapy, exercise, getting with other friends.  Whatever it takes to give you a break.

I have come to terms that I cannot fix anyone else in life except me.  I played the role of rescuer with my family.  That has not worked.  Instead it has created more turmoil.

The sad fact is that your children will suffer if their dad is going through tough stuff.  Focus on your children and some happy times.  But don't think you can protect them completely from what they are witnessing.  I thought I could do that and now I am seeing our adult children as they are coming to terms with the dysfunction of our family and how it has impacted them.

For that reason, I am working hard on getting healthier, working on codependency issues, self care, and finding my joy in life again.  It does not mean I do not care for and love my BPD husband.  It just means I will never survive if I do not get healthy.

I am sad for you!

[ACF]

I'm sorry lonely38, that you have had to struggle with this for so many years.  The thing that has been so confusing for me is that I thought we had a great relationship.  He has never had anger outburst or having controlling behavior. He was always very loving to my children and myself. Our home is peaceful in a sense. My mind is not peaceful. I want him to get better help than what the military offers but I know I cant make him. If he wants help he is going to have to get it himself. My kids are only getting older and I'm sure at some point they are going to realize that something is off with their dad. He had a pretty non existent relationship with his father, even when he was home. I cant understand how he doesn't see the disconnect that his father had with him, is what he's doing to our kids.

Lonely38, what has made you stay with your husband all these years? Not saying at all that you shouldn't stay. I would never tell anyone to leave their spouse. I love my husband as well and want to make it work.