Were any of you the "replacement"?

[Depression = 72% of members]

On one board we talk a lot about the "next guy" or "replacement" and wonder how long the new relationship will last. In most cases, the new relationship does not last long, unless their is a pregnancy or a marriage, and then maybe they end up on this board someday. With that said, in hindsight, do any of you think you were the replacement? Did anyone get trapped or pushed quickly into marriage?

[Frank88]

On one board we talk a lot about the "next guy" or "replacement" and wonder how long the new relationship will last. In most cases, the new relationship does not last long, unless their is a pregnancy or a marriage, and then maybe they end up on this board someday. With that said, in hindsight, do any of you think you were the replacement? Did anyone get trapped or pushed quickly into marriage?

[balletomane]

I was a replacement, but I didn't see it that way at the time. He broke up with someone after three weeks of dating her, and within a week of the breakup we were together. Before her he'd had about a month with no relationships. I've known him ever since he had his first girlfriend, I worried about his attachment style before I knew about his mental health diagnosis (particularly his tendency to get very involved very quickly with people he barely knew), and in hindsight it's obvious to me that I was part of an exploding chain of bad relationships. But I wanted to believe that I was somehow "different" from the others, because I'd known him for a few years and I thought (wished, more like) this meant it could work.

I've sometimes wondered about the woman I replaced. If she'd had time to become attached to him in those three weeks they were together. What he said to her when they broke up. He got paranoid and accused her of cheating on him based on zero evidence (funnily enough, this happened in his breakup with me too... .). If she'd been attached enough to be hurt by his behaviour, which must have been cruel even though I don't know exactly what he did and said to her. If she knew about me, and it how it made her feel when he started dating someone else within days of her.

[Lonely_Astro]

I was both the replacement and replaced. Long story short, I was the 'branch' between her ex and current bf. 

[codes316]

I honestly wonder this a lot and at one point thought about reaching out to her to ex bf. I literally met her the day she broke up with last bf of 2 years. She was crying and thinking of suicide- she was in a real dark place. We lasted a year; the first half of the relationship was amazing and the second half of the relationship was rough and really different.

She broke up with me (discarded me) literally the day after she dumped her last bf. We lasted a year. Sometimes I feel jealous that she can just move on so quick other times I feel used. When I kept asking her why we were breaking up she would list any reason she could- like the fights, the distance, the fact that I couldn't cook. I find peace at night knowing she's bound to go down this cycle again; She'll never get therapy as she claims she doesn't need it.

[WoundedBibi]

No, I was the anti-dote for a period of depression after a crisis at work. I was semi replaced, not by a gf but by a bff that he got in the mix after I walked away (triangulation) to alleviate his stress and who in her turn got about 60 others involved. Sort of a 'burn the witch!' situation.

[blissful_camper]

I too was the replacement and replaced. My replacement was replaced as well.  It's a continuous cycle... .

[Jazzy]

Like many others I was both the replacement and the replaced. I got to know a year into my r/s with my BPD ex that he was still meeting a previous gf. He stopped seeing her ( so I  was made to believe) only after I threatened to stop seeing him.Similarly he was still with me when he started seeing my replacement. I got to know only about 3 months after he started seeing her.

[blissful_camper]

Like many others I was both the replacement and the replaced. I got to know a year into my r/s with my BPD ex that he was still meeting a previous gf. He stopped seeing her ( so I  was made to believe) only after I threatened to stop seeing him.Similarly he was still with me when he started seeing my replacement. I got to know only about 3 months after he started seeing her.

Overlapping seems common. When there's a history of overlapping, the relationships begin to appear as one continuous r/s.  While the partners may cycle in, away, and out, the relationship dynamic is sustained and repeated.

[andywho]

When i met her 15 years ago i was the replacement yes. She left her partner back then and started a relationship with me.

Back then she always told me how broken her partner was and that she (yes, she was with a girl before me) had so many issues, that her partner didnt care about her. She even told me that she even cut herself in front of her partner to get her attention (should have seen the red flag there).

Now we are in the middle of a break up and i know she is already working on a replacement guy (she dont know i know about him). Havent confronted her with it. Have accepted that i cant control what she does. She is who she is and does whatever she can to survive in the only way she knows. Its really tough these days for me but i have accepted how things are, how she is and that messed up things happens in this relationship.

Love her with all my heart, but im also willing to let it go, let her go. I hope she will be happy, but im also afraid that she wont so i feel a sorrow for her.

[gundam94]

No. I was her first boyfriend. In fact I was her first EVERYTHING.

[JohnLove]

I was the replacement. I knew my exBPDgf for many years. Introduced by mutual friends. We would sometimes go out for dinner as a group but never with her then partner. I was somehow triangulated into their relationship. The running joke was we were sleeping together for about a year. I would get dirty looks from him if I went to her home and he was there which funnily enough didn't happen often. She had 4 children to this man and about a 1000 recycles with cheating and other long term relationships thrown into the mix.

One evening she was having some kind of problem in her relationship so she I believe she "disappeared". She stayed at our mutual friends home for 2 days and I was invited there as well for a get together.

We ended up sleeping in a single day bed and I woke up during the night to find her arm around me. I felt it was flattering and thought no more of it. However our mutual friends were passing on messages and thought it was a great idea for us to have sex.

A few nights later that ended up happening at her home when I went to visit her.

She then gave her partner (Father of the last 4 of her 6 kids) 3 weeks to move out. She told me they had separated prior to us hooking up. Except they were still living together... .and lets not forget they shared 4 children.

I should probably also mention that after spending 17 years together on and off they got engaged to be married almost a year before we hooked up.

I learnt all this one day snapping some candid but risqué pics of her. When I looked at them days later I noticed a large diamond ring on her engagement finger.

We had been together for months by this time.

Needless to say I got more than a little upset.

And that's how I joined bpdfamily... .looking for support.

[HarleypsychRN]

Similar story here, she "fled" this "abusive" relationship with her ex. I later found out she had re-established contact with him and been talking bad about me to him (go figure... .I treated her like a queen).

I have no idea what was or wasn't the truth with her and her ex (current?). Doesn't even matter at this point. Man this was someone how "swore" she was ready for a healthy relationship. The lies and deceit were so deep.

[FallBack!Monster]

andywho, I feel the same way and agree with everything you have said, except for the part about caring if she's happy or not.  I know she will never be happy.  She knows she'll never be happy.  that's sad but none of my business anymore.  worrying about her is what got me on this forum in the first place. 

I was kind of a replacement.  I think I was a thing before the next victim.  I do know that she had not broken up (in her mind) completely with the guy she was seeing before me, when we were already talking on the phone. 

We are all replacements and all replaced.  It's an never ending story.  They are looking for something that they weren't born with... .and none of us have it.  When he or she realizes the replacement doesn't have it either, they'll do one of 2 things... .leave for no reason, or stay (for beneficial reasons). I'm not sure which is worse.  Having a person like that in your life cheating and lying about everything, plus destroying your being... .or the person just leaving you w/o a good reason. 

[gotbushels]

I'm not sure which is worse.  Having a person like that in your life cheating and lying about everything, plus destroying your being... .or the person just leaving you w/o a good reason.

Lived the first one. Much worse. Good thing is that it contributes to factors to cut them off, thereby making it easier to do so. If you can cut them off with discipline before they do serious damage, my hat's off to you. My hats off to those who are stuck too. God Bless you folks.

For everyone else on here who shared they are 'replacements', I'm not a doctor but this will help you.

"Criteria 2 (DSM5): A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation."

Since its a hallmark of the pathology to make it into the DSM5 and stay there for more than a decade, it will help you to stop blaming yourself (if you are).

[iluminati]

I was the replacement, and to be honest, I saw it coming.  My ex-wife was involved with another guy when we first met, and we just talked and hung out.  I thought she was cute, but I figured that the odds were nothing was going to happen.  After she split up with the boyfriend, I figured why not take a shot and see what happens.  She pushed quickly, while I was the one that held back a bit.  Eventually, she wore down my defenses and convinced me to pursue things further.

As for what happened as I got my ducks in a row to leave, she went out and found another guy.  She thought she would move in with him, but he killed that notion.  I know that she's found another dude based on social media photos, but I figure that so long as they aren't around my daughter, it's not my concern.

[Herodias]

I replaced a very young co-worker he was involved with... .she was probably the strongest of all and dumped him. I think they dated 3 months, if that is true what he said. We were together 9years total. He has now been with my replacement a year-she is pregnant after 4 months of dating. She had to of wanted to be as I see it... .Anyone that gets pregnant these days has to want to or be willing to risk it if they are not on birth control. In my case, I got pregnant after we were living together and had been together over a year... .He lied to me and told me he was infertile! I didn't see that one coming at all! I never imagined someone would lie about something like that. I am curious if he told her that, but I doubt it, due to her wanting children... .I told him I did not. It's a mess really... .I had a miscarriage and that was that for us- we married for the baby that never was and I tried to keep my vows through all kinds of hell. I should have left when I had the miscarriage, knowing he lied about something so important as that!

[AwakenedOne]

I think most if not all of the people they date comes as a result of their subconscious attempting to find "replacements" for the abusive, neglectful and abandoning parent or parents, that is if their parents or family created the disorder.

I believe they have a greater love for certain ones of us more than others of their ex's though but it could actually more accurately be called something like an unhealthy or artificial intensity instead of love. Having less intensity toward us than another one of their ex's is no negative reflection on us I feel. That might even be a positive thing such as for example we didnt put up with certain things they did, therefore we weren't "loved" as much.

[rfriesen]

Yes, I was the replacement, though initially I didn't expect to be. My exBPD was engaged to be married at the time we started together and I fully expected her to go through with the marriage, with us just having a fling beforehand. My longer backstory is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=291522.msg12741771#msg12741771

I want to add right away - I've never been through relationship pain, hostility, frustration, hurt like this before, and now that I have, I would never again start such a messy, risky relationship, in which someone is being cheated on. I feel for the guy I replaced, though in the bigger picture I have to say he's lucky it ended before marriage. I also consider myself very lucky to have escaped this relationship relatively unscathed. My exBPD, the other guy, and I were all coworkers, although I was only at that workplace for a year and I hardly knew him at all. She was very flirtatious with me and pushed for drinks with me within weeks of my starting work there. We formed the most unbelievable attachment emotionally, sexually, a passion that was several steps beyond anything I'd experienced before ... .well, you all know the story. Within a month, she had told her fiancé the wedding was off, and within six weeks was living in her own place.

Here's where I consider I got very lucky, and not for reasons that do me any credit. When my exBPD and I started, my previous gf and I had just decided to step away from our relationship for a while. We had been living together, but she left the country for a few months on work and we decided to try being on a break for that time and then re-evaluating. She and I only tried taking a break because we had different life goals (she was ready to settle down and wanted to have kids soon, I didn't), not because we didn't get along. We had an incredibly stable caring relationship for eight years, and were basically very good, very close friends. By some miraculous instinct, I made sure to keep this space at home off-limits to my BPD partner once my now-roommate ex returned from abroad. I was only staying in the city for six more months and we decided to live out those six months as roommates. My exBPD must have sensed that any attempt on her part to contact or cause drama with my now-roommate ex would make me end things immediately, because she never tried, even though she contacted other exes of mine from long ago and in other ways tore into me with jealousy and possessiveness. Funny how some deep instinct on both sides can lead us to a kind of sick understanding that allows even the most unhealthy relationship to drag on.

The next six months were the most manic of my life, as I pursued the relationship with my exBPD at work and at her place, while maintaining a semblance of sanity at home. I even started therapy myself because I realized that I had my own issues to deal with, seeing the mess I had got myself into and somehow couldn't get out of, couldn't take firm decisions about anything and stick with them. I was running out the clock in a sense, hoping that once I got out of the city, I could just be by myself for a while and clear my head. Needless to say, it wasn't that easy. I tried to end things three times over the course of two weeks before leaving, but always caved in the face of the hours of extreme yelling, heart-wrenching pleading, and intense make-up sex. And when I finally did move away, my exBPD booked a ticket of her own accord to come visit me.

I knew that in her desperation she had also been looking for possible replacements for me -- she told me as much on several occasions, and had actually managed to work my own jealousies into a fever pitch by that point, even though I was still trying to get out of the relationship! I thought I was losing my mind - I'd been praying for the whole thing to be over for months and yet she still could make me burn with jealousy and feel the need to fight off replacements! I've never been through anything else like it. It's been a very humbling experience.

Anyway, we cycled through six more months after I moved away, and one day the entire fantasy and idealization suddenly started to crumble for me after another explosion. I wrote a series of goodbye emails and it's been two weeks NC now (when we'd never gone more than 3-4 days before). It has been by far the bitterest emotional pill I've ever swallowed. Just like finding a ghost in the place of all my most beautiful memories. But again, as I'm processing it now, I consider myself incredibly lucky that through a whole series of circumstances, I never got fully sucked in. I can tell you I was very close sometimes to throwing myself fully into the relationship, even changing my career plans and staying to see if we could keep the intense passion alive. I discovered this site just trying to make sense of things when the illusion started to dissipate a couple of weeks ago. It's painfully clear to me now that I was just a replacement that was inevitably going to be replaced, and it's embarrassing in hindsight to have ever been blind to that. I still feel physically sick for hours at a time as I process the whole thing, and come across memory after memory that I see in a completely different light. But I do consider myself lucky because I feel there was a definite moment when the fantasy and fever broke and I just need to let the stress and anxiety flow out now. I feel secure that I would never been tempted to return to that madness, though the after-effects -- constant anxiety, difficulty concentrating, tightness in my chest, ... .-- are obviously going to take time.

All things considered, I feel I got very lucky and I hope that once I find my balance again, I can use the fact that this experience scared the hell out of me to become a better person. Having caught just a glimpse of how soul-breaking and gut-wrenching this kind of experience can be, my heart truly goes out to all of you whose stories I've read and who went through so much more.

[naguma]

Unless your 13 and first to ride the crazy train, you're probably the replacement and replaced.

My ex was with her first boyfriend for 1.5 years. He lived in Canada. One week before he came to visit we hooked up. She let him fly down just to tell him they were done, he spent about 12 hours in the states before going back. Told me he was controlling because he asked her to move to Canada while he attended college and that his parents would pay for everything (she was a HS drop out, however this was her mothers words - a NPD).

We were together for 11 years, she moved on to my replacement within a week. She always had someone lined up and ready to ride the crazy train. The only time this failed was with my replacement, he quit his job - moved - changed everything 3 weeks after being with her (she drove him off that quickly - assume the honeymoon phase happened the year prior, soon as they were together it was all business). She was then alone for about a month. Now she's been with that guy for 7 months, but in a way he is still a replacement. She is constantly trying to get in contact with me, drives her crazy that I moved and went total NC.

[gotbushels]

rfriesen I just read your backstory. Welcome! I wish you well in your NC.

naguma good story. I laughed a little when you mentioned about her constantly trying to get in touch with you and you totally NC'd her. I had to since it sounded like she was cheating on you, which I found out about my ex UpwBPDgf. Ok I shall disembark the judgement train. Thanks for the lift 

[Frank88]

At some point do they just stay with the replacement if the replacement fits their needs, like financial security or a good step dad to their kids? Am I being too logical thinking that they would be insane to give up a good thing, especially if they are getting older and running out of options?

[WoundedBibi]

At some point do they just stay with the replacement if the replacement fits their needs, like financial security or a good step dad to their kids? Am I being too logical thinking that they would be insane to give up a good thing, especially if they are getting older and running out of options?

I don't think so. My ex knew he had some financial security if he stayed with me. Enough that we could have gone back to his country, buy a house and for him to be a writer, which is what he wants. But he couldn't control me. I stopped enabling him, I called him out, I resisted. What use is a partner if you cannot control them?

Their needs are often opposites, their thinking not logical.

[gotbushels]

At some point do they just stay with the replacement if the replacement fits their needs, like financial security or a good step dad to their kids? Am I being too logical thinking that they would be insane to give up a good thing, especially if they are getting older and running out of options?

[... .]

Their needs are often opposites, their thinking not logical.

Good question though Frank88. I remember seeing data that showed BPD is high for young people then diminishes in the population with older age groups. As the identity aspect could settle over time (they find more of themself), it could explain the reduction in % BPDs. People hypothesise that BP adults "mature out" or learn to become more stable. I don't know data on this though. No idea what their relationships are like either.

Maybe at some point they learn they are way to old to throw tantrums and get positive reinforcement for it? Logic or no logic, the environment would start to refuse the tantrums at some point, thereby acting to 'correct' the behaviour patterns.

[wanttoknowmore]

It seems that many symptoms of BPD diminish with age... particularly impulsive behavior. (impulsivity is what  causes rapid changes in partners, use of alcohol and drugs and promiscuity. So, with age and esp. with therapy, pwBPD are able to manage life better if they have a good, stable validating partner who they can depend on for consistent support ,both emotional and financial.

Many maturing pwBPD also starts making better choices of partners, friends etc as they have experienced tremendous pain and bad consequences

of their behaviors while they were young.

Textbooks say that age 45 is particularly a point where many pwBPD start to get better with or without therapy.  The most severe ones can not get better as the mess and chaos they have created in young age takes a huge toll and is almost unfixable esp if alcohol or drug abuse is involved.

High intelligence, goos bonds with family and friends and a longer make up break up cycle are good signs for future recovery.

[WoundedBibi]

Not a nice thing to say, but I think the percentage of pwBPD also gets lower after a certain age because there are pwBPD that live shorter lives because they live a life full of risk (alcohol, drugs, wrong friends, reckless driving, reckless promiscuity, etc) or because they choose to end it.

Like my cousin. He was 54 when he killed himself. The mess had not gotten any less, nor his emotions or private life any more stable nor his alcoholism under control. As I see it my cousin was more 'pure' BPD and my ex has more narcissistic traits mixed in. I have no clue how big the influence of the NPD is but somehow I just can't see my ex get any better. In his eyes he's just different and sees the world for what an ugly place it really is and the rest of humanity is blind and stupid.

I know for me my emotions have become much more stable, less internal roller coaster, over time. I'm not sure if that is because I've grown older, or because I have shut off a lot of emotions, or because my parents died or a bit of all those.

[JQ]

Hi Group,

My 1st exBPDgf (20 plus yrs ago) is now near 50 and to repeat my term for her before I knew about BPD, "She is still Batsh!t crazy." With her recent history of trying to get me to replace bf#2 aka boytoy while she stays, lives a life with bf#1.  Her unacceptable behavior I experienced towards me with rage, verbal & physical assault I would say she's is no better now then she was all those years ago. BTW, yes I was the replacement and during our 2 yr chaotic, drama filled relationship. Then she had started more then one attempt replacing me. I finally rid myself of her  by moving out of state until she recently connected with my BPD step mother & sister. WOW, those 3 women alone are enough to make me or drink a lot ... .   

My more recent exBPDgf experience is when I learned about BPD when she told me her head doc told her. She is north of 50 years of age.  And before I dove into all things BPD, I was arrogantly uneducated & believed that I could be different then every other guy ... .it was a cold smack in the face of reality.  I was the replacement for her replacement (R) of her ex=husband (F), all within 2 yrs. While I "dated" her, she recycled back to the (R) more then once. During our "crazy time" she replaced me with (D), then search for the the next several others via the online dating sites.  She then recycled back to me when she recycle back to (D).  Now I'm NC, she has attempted to reach out more then once ... .I know she's still seeing (D) and I have no doubt that she's already searched out & probably "dated" others in an attempt to find yet another replacement.  Her BPD / NPD hasn't lessoned in her 25 yrs plus of therapy. She has been & continues to be " devoutly religious" and required me or someone else to convert in order stay in her company. Which is a whole other different story AND BEFORE YOU ASK, "devoutly religious & bf bouncing". She makes it all right with God by going to church every Sunday & asking for forgiveness & all is right with the world.      

I digress    One of the core BPD identifiers is that they feel extreme fear of being alone ... .real or not. So they have multiple "relationships" in order to avoid this feeling even if its' a temporary feeling so they seek out replacements.  oes it happen less as they get older due to looks, "growing out of it as they get older" baby step dad qualifications, "INSERT YOUR HYPOTHESIS HERE" is hard to qualify.  Studies would suggest that anyone one of those or other reasons are cause to think they might. BUT, I would agree with Gotbushels that there isn't enough raw data to make a strong conclusion.

Both of my experiences with hard core BPD suggest that they don't get better with time. exBPD#2 is self aware, continues to seek out not one but TWO therapist, Ph.d's for her ongoing therapy.  She continues to abuse alcohol to the point of not remembering the night before and continues to seek out multiple partners to feed her need.  And now past 50 she's no where near the point of settling for one person in her life according to her therapist. It's part of the mental illness, I accept that and have moved on.

As far as exBPDgf #1 from a couple of decades ago, recent experience with her would suggest she continues to abuse alcohol & live a life of multiple bf's with no attempt on her part to hide it or change it. I feel for her ... .it's sad to see ... .but I know she's permanently broken ... .

Hell I know both are permanently broken, and all evidence would suggest they aren't able to be repaired, at least in their cases. (No blanket statements remember)  I have learned that as a codependent my behavior got me here and I have learned to change it & continue to work on myself. As I like to say, a constant work in progress. It was hard NOT to try & save everyone that needed saved, protect them from themselves & others.  But I'm certainly soo much better off not riding the crazy train roller coaster of a dysfunctional & toxic love affair with someone who has BPD ANNND I'm not chasing my step mothers / sisters flying monkey's every time they let them out of their cages to cause chaos & drama.  

Once you learn, the more you know ... .CBS cares  

J

[gotbushels]

HAHAHA flying monkeys. JQ that was an excellent post. Thank you for sharing both your experiences. I saved it 

"devoutly religious & bf bouncing". She makes it all right with God by going to church every Sunday & asking for forgiveness & all is right with the world.     

I'm quite Christian and was reading posts on the site about BPD/religion before. It's quite scary stuff. Wow I feel sorry for the Big Guy. Looks like he's unwittingly being an enabler here 

Both of my experiences with hard core BPD suggest that they don't get better with time. exBPD#2 is self aware, continues to seek out not one but TWO therapist, Ph.d's for her ongoing therapy.  She continues to abuse alcohol to the point of not remembering the night before and continues to seek out multiple partners to feed her need.  And now past 50 she's no where near the point of settling for one person in her life according to her therapist. It's part of the mental illness, I accept that and have moved on.

Wow. This read like the back of Species or Aliens or Matrix video tape. Your dark humour was powerful.

Thanks for sharing both your experiences JQ. It's very interesting to see a long-term non's experience. My sympathies to ya--though I can't even begin to compare my short experience with yours--and I'm very pleased to hear about your growth as a result.

[sweet tooth]

I think I might have been. She told me she just got out of a six month relationship. That guy was the "distraction" from her ex-husband. She went on at least one date with a guy while she was being inconsistent with me. She refused to commit to me, even though we did everything couples do except have physical intimacy beyond kissing on the cheek and holding hands.

I was discarded 4 weeks ago. Discovered her Match profile yesterday. Blocked if today. Hurts like hell. Still miss her desperately.

[JQ]

Hey guys,  

@gotbushels, Every time I hear my phone & look over at it & see my mom's "face" & number I start to hear the Wizard of Oz theme for the scene with the Wicked Witch letting her flying monkey's fly ... .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESI19h4wDo

I've been trying to find the music to it to make it HER ring tone so I can just ignore it when I hear it ... .Muchahahaha  

funny you mention the Alien movie ... .it's actually on in the background as I write this. They just found the first guy with the "spider crap" attached to his face through the helmet. Kinda a metaphor for a BPD & codependent r/s now that I think about it ... .check this ... .so the BPD is the spider crab like creature that wraps around your face in the beginning of the relationship depositing herself into your heart. Once that's complete, the "spiker crap" dies BUUUT ... .the creature remains inside your chest ... .growing & waiting ... .then when you least expect it, she explodes through your chest!   Not bad huh?     I know I know ... .it's warped humor ... .but you have to keep your humor when you're dealing with a BPD r/s.  

If you talk about BPD & r/s bf/gf hopping and making it all right with God on Sunday morning ... .you have to think that the human is a flawed piece of art that he/she created ... .so he has to accept the person for reasons beyond their control ... .but that's for a whole different discussion.  

No matter how many or how long or short ago our own BPD r/s was or is ... .we are all individuals who feel pain at different levels, who recover at different speeds and no one's experience is better or worse then other other. We each feel pain, we each feel the emptiness they leave, we each feel the chaos & drama they give us or leave us in.  How fast we learn, educate, and recover is depending on several factors but we are in charge of our own destiny, our own lives and we are responsible for being proactive in our own recovery. Some of us learn quicker then others ... .some of us will need a repeat of the experience because we forgot the lessons of the first one ... .and still others will never learn or WANT to learn from their experience and will recycle after recycle after recycle as evidence by some of the post on this site.

I admire some of your post as well gotbushels, I must admit i've busted out laughing at some of them ... .I see you've learned to keep your humor as well    

J

[once removed]

Am I being too logical thinking that they would be insane to give up a good thing, especially if they are getting older and running out of options?

"a good thing" might = a heightened fear of abandonment