Regaining trust in a relationship with an ex

[Xander1024]

Hello, I've stumbled upon this forum and it has been a great source of knowledge for me to read up on, valdiate my experience, and have better insight into a previous relationship of mine, so thank you for that. Now for my story, and the questions I have. For starters I am now 34 and she is 32.

My relationship was pretty great most of the time. We started talking in January 2022 and had our first date in February 2022. We instantly hit it off and had a good sense of calmness, attraction, interest and respect for one another. Throughout the first three months of our relationship things were pretty good and we had built good habits with one another. Communication was a big issue on both our ends. I would tend to avoid hard topics because she would get defensive and start an argument, even if I was trying to bring up my feelings about some things. We have very similar life goals, some common interests, and enough that differ to keep things interesting. We differ on politics, but not so much on the policies but rather because I don't typically follow or care that much about them and they constantly frustrate me, and her for that matter, but she would sometimes poke and prod for my views and then put me down or argue with me if they were even remotely different than hers. In May 2022 we had a phone call after work to confirm plans to see each other and the call didn't go so well. We didn't argue or anything, but something happened in the news that she was frantic about, lost sleep over and even had an all night group texting session with some of her girlfriends who were scared at possibly political changes. Because we differ on this topic, mostly from moral standpoints and not much else, it seemed she was done with me. I asked her what she would like to do about "us" but didn't clearly state the relationship. She told me to come over as planned and we would just figure it out. She did not seem to enthused or thrilled I was coming over and had a huge anxious sigh about it all. I went over convinced we were splitting up and had mentally prepared for it. When I got there she greeted me with a hug and a kiss as we had been doing and I was instantly confused. We ended up trying to talk and since I thought we were splitting up she got combatative, started stress eating, overly anxious and dismissive. I did not want to break up but it didn't seem we could continue at that point. That's where we left it for a few months.

Roughly three months later we reconnected, hung out and had a nice heart to heart. Admitted we both wish we didn't break up, had been falling in love with one another and had wished we could have both been better at communicating. This is now middle to end of August 2022. By the end of the week we decided together that we would really like to be together and give it another try. We were both excited and things started off great. Things continued going well until the election that year, and other issues that she had not talked about before such as trauma from her overbearing mother (who I suspect has strong narcissistic traits) who puts a lot of pressure on her still as an adult, intruded into her life, her startup business, her dating life, everything. She admitted to becoming anorexic as a teenager because of it, being horribly depressed in high school because of the private school her mother sent her to, and had been diagnosed as a kid with ADD, and hated being on medication where she seems terrified of it and therapy to this day. Also, she had two ex boyfriends from her twenties. The first one was in college and they broke up because he cheated on her. A few years later the second guy she dated also cheated on her. Then six years after the first guy they reconeccted and they ended up breaking up because he again cheated on her. She was then single for a few years, self-isolated and only talked with her very small group of friends and also her family. Her parents have a tumultuous relationship it seems. They've been together for 35+ years, apparently have huge blow out arguments every few months, threaten divorce to one another every few years, and a few years ago her father had an affair that nearly split the entire family, and has now seemingly been on a very careful and cowtowing path ever since. These issues didn't bother me but it was obvious she was guarding herself because it seems love only leads to pain for her. A little while after that we had realized we had fallen in love with each other, said it out loud and were very happy with the trajectory of the relationship.

We ended up breaking up a second time in March 2023. During our second go around we would get into huge arguments every month for the last four months. If I tried to explain anything I was met with stonewalling, gaslighting, defensiveness, being blamed for things I never did or said, having my words twisted around, called names, and told that I don't meet her already low standards. All of these things made me feel triggered. I would shutdown during arguments because of my own insecurities and past trauma from an awful relationship with my step-mom as a child where I would receive that same treatment. After arguments my ex would rarely, if ever, apologize. When she would it would be forced and insincere. I never pushed the issue except the day we broke up. We had an argument because the entire week we were just not communicating well. I asked her about her low standards comment and she refused to accept anything she had said or did was verbally or emotionally abusive. Emotions running high, she further stated that when she gets angry/frustrated/overwhelmed that she just fired off at the mouth and I need to just deal with it and she won't change, and that I need therapy not her. I said that if she can't even accept responsibility for her own actions then the relationship is over. She gatherered her stuff and left. We didn't talk for about a week, when I showed up at her place with a letter trying to explain my feelings and detail how I was upset we broke up again, but that I don't tolerate abuse of any kind and neither should she, and that we needed to communicate better and work on problems together as a team instead of against one another.

Another week or so after we reconnected, tried talking through things and while holding each other and her crying she admitted she doesn't know why she says things intentionally to hurt me, that she can't help it, she loses control of herself, knows it's wrong but doesn't know how to change it or if she even can. I believe she may have BPD, or significant traits of the disorder because of the following things. Her sense of identity shifts between her own wants and desires and trying to live up to what her mother and her business partner (lifelong male friend) pushes on her. Mind you she does not get paid for the work she does with her startup business and has been at it for just over 4 years now. Anyway, after we had reconnected we said we would like to be friends and then proceded to hang out about once a week and talk a few times a week for the next six to seven months. Things had eventually calmed down emtionally. We did not sleep with each other after we had broke up, but fooled around a few times which ended sometime in June 2023. Everyone I've spoken to, even my therapist has stated even though we had romantically split we were still very clearly in love, scared of it, but that we were still dating. Now October 2023 comes around and I realized my feelings came back for her and admitted them to her. I believe I engulfed her and it overwhelmed her emotionally. She said she did not feel the same; however, her actions in the months prior clearly showed to me and everyone else that she did. That was the last day I spoke to her until this week.

A few days ago I tried calling her to catch up over the phone or see if she was interested in getting lunch. Her voicemail box was full so I texted her saying it had been a while since we last talked, and asked if she would like to catch up over the phone or over lunch, and stated I hoped she has been doing well. A few hours later she responded saying that she would like to grab lunch. A few hours later I messaged her back and said we should shoot for next week, and asked what days work best for her. I have not heard back since and it's been a day and a half. Not that long I know, but I'm beginning to overthink and get anxious. I never wanted to break up either time, and realize I acted impulsively, rashly and believe I have a fear of abandonment/rejection myself. I'm working on learning patience, and to sit comfortably with my uncomfortable feelings. As far as I know she has not addressed anything in her life and refuses to out of fear, pride, or both.

I would like help in learning how to properly rebuild trust between us and work towards getting back together. We had the deepest connection either of us has ever had, and had talked about getting married and having children with each (not in the general sense but specific to each other). I'm at a loss of how to proceed. I hope she gets back to me and we can actually meet for lunch. Any advice, insight, or anything at all is greatly appreciated. I am not looking for comments to run away or go no contact, etc. I would like for a relationship to begin again. I do love her, and I believe she still loves me but is scared. She can be very stubborn and is not the type of person to do anything she doesn't want to do, including talking to people she doesn't want to. Thank you for reading such a long message. If there is any questions about things that may need more detail or clearing up I am happy to provide a response.

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[Pook075]

I would like help in learning how to properly rebuild trust between us and work towards getting back together. We had the deepest connection either of us has ever had, and had talked about getting married and having children with each (not in the general sense but specific to each other). I'm at a loss of how to proceed. I hope she gets back to me and we can actually meet for lunch. Any advice, insight, or anything at all is greatly appreciated.  I am not looking for comments to run away or go no contact, etc...

Hi Xander and thanks for sharing.  Welcome to the community and I'm very glad you found us!

Building trust with a BPD partner after a break-up is going to sound pretty complicated, and it's also going to sound like I'm blaming you more than her.  Just note going into this that she has a mental health condition and you don't, so you'll have to be the voice of reason in order to 'break the ice' and open a door for friendship (or more).

First rule, don't argue.

Second rule, don't defend.

Third rule, don't blame.

For instance, if I said, "Xander, you seem like a real jerk," how do you respond without breaking the three rules?

Now, you're probably thinking I'm a jerk for saying that...and it would be true if this wasn't just a little roleplaying exercise.  But nonetheless, it stings a little...hurts your ego.  So how do you respond when you can't argue (Only a true jerk would say that!), you can't defend (I'm not a jerk, I'm a great guy.  You're....), and you can't blame (You're out of your freakin' mind saying that...).

The answer is you use empathy and compassion to figure out where that came from.  You focus on my emotions instead of my insensitive outburst.  You ask questions on why I feel that way or what you can do to help.  You can also apologize FOR MY FEELINGS if you can do so without reacting to my words (I'm so sorry if anything I said or did made you feel that way...).

Think about it, I must already be mad or frustrated to call you a jerk, so what happens from my viewpoint when you argue, defend, or blame?  I'm thinking, oh my gosh, the nerve of this guy...and we go off to the races in a verbal argument that nobody's going to win.  We both lose because we decided to play the game.

With your ex, she's going to have some barriers of resentment and you'll likely hear about them before trust can be re-established.  Your job is not to "help her understand the past"...the past is gone and can only bring turmoil by reliving it.  Your job is to focus on the here and now, listen to her, show support, and take a genuine interest in her life.

Again, she's probably going to have a different viewpoint and be stand-offish at first.  Fair enough.  You get past those layers by being kind, considerate, and supportive.  That's the only goal of the first few meetings, just showing that you can be there and normal conversations can take place.

I hope that helps and I'm sure others will chime in soon enough.

[once removed]

in order to build trust, you have to understand where the relationship is currently, where you would like it to be, and what its going to take, if possible, to get it there.

your feelings for each other, and your history with each other not withstanding, your connection, from 30000 ft up, is somewhat tenuous. there are compatibility issues. there have been two breakups. you each push each others buttons. it looks, at times, like its "too good to leave, too bad to stay". so the question is, what will it take, if possible, to move that relationship to a healthier, and more sustainable trajectory.

how do you solve something like compatibility issues? well, it depends on the issue, and how strongly each party feels about it. for example, if political issues are significant enough to threaten or break up the relationship, then they are a significant difference that one or both of you feels particularly strongly about. its not uncommon for couples to have and live with these differences, though its also not uncommon that couples break up over them.

how do you resolve a difference like that? either by breaking up, one party changing their mind, or both parties changing the way they deal with the issue. for example, some couples might have a policy where they agree not to discuss politics.

this is one example. politics is probably not the most significant issue between the two of you (though, it does seem significant to her), but it may be indicative of how the two of you handle conflict with each other.

when it comes to changing the way the two of you handle conflict with each other, as Pook suggested, you are probably going to have to lead in that regard, and you may not receive fairness, consistency, or a partner that jumps in and meets you half way. that may change; these problems didnt start over night, and trust isnt built or rebuilt over night, but loving someone with bpd traits generally means accepting the role of emotional leader, creating a validating, nurturing, and sustainable environment for the relationship to thrive, and it means it will not always be easy.

I would like help in learning how to properly rebuild trust between us and work towards getting back together.

she has to want that, too, or all of this is somewhat moot (at least as it applies to getting back together; everything you learn here will take you far, regardless of how things turn out).

unfortunately, there is only so much you can do to affect that. you can (and should) put your best foot forward to attract her, but if shes done, shes done, or, if shes closed off for now, shes closed off for now. it isnt clear, at least to me, where she stands on that, or whether where she stands on that has any level of permanence.

reaching out to get together was a good, low pressure move. at some point, it may be appropriate to send a follow up, but beyond that, if shes not up for it right now, it may be something she needs to warm up to, or it may never be. be prepared for that.

[Xander1024]

Thank you both for the replies.

To Pook075:

I understand the not arguing aspect. I typically wouldn't try to argue with her about much of anything and even avoided bringing up things to prevent a fight, but that seemed to only have either of us hold on to things until the fight about something completely different, and often times mundane, would occur and then everything would get brought up. I think having the "fight" about something is important and know better than to retaliate with name calling or other abusive tactics. My reaction to break up with her seems to come from my own fear of abandonment/rejection that I'm working on in therapy, along with codepency issues. During the relationship I stopped taking time for myself to recharge and be emotionally stable enough to continue on.

The moment she opened up to me about her past issues/traumas I knew I would have to be more empathetic, understanding, and patient regarding the relationship. That knowledge was never fully implemented clearly, and it was made clear to myself as I typed up my original post, and reading through your reply. I will continue discussing things with my therapist to be mindful of things I am not good or great at and actively work on them. Regardless if my ex and I get back together, it is a major benefit for me to work on those issues.

I really appreciate you pointing out the barriers to re-establish trust and that it is not my job to help her understand the past. When her and I do meet I don't want to drudge up any negative things. I want to focus on what we've been doing the last four months not talking and gauge her interest moving forward and be supportive of her endeavors as I was when we were together. Even after we broke up romantically and continued seeing other I was supportive; however, it seemed she never wanted to divulge much information so I would never push topics as some may be sore for her regarding her startup business not performing well, etc. Thank you as well for pointing out that the first few meetings should be normal, and that being kind, considerate, and supportive is a good first step. I certainly don't want to muck it up by being overly anxious, overthinking things, romanticizing what could be and so on. Your advice is helpful, thank you.


To once removed:

At our first meeting I will certainly have to gauge where things are, and get a feel for what she is interested in. Her feelings and mine are equally important but we can't move forward if it's a one-sided relationship, regardless of which side it comes from. That wouldn't be fair.

As far as compatibility issues, I understand your point and how the difference in politics was at one point a wedge between us. Ironically, she did admit to me at one point in our relationship that although her positions hadn't changed, she was seeing things less in black/white or all good/all bad. She was coming around to be less interested in extremes and thinking one person's account on Twitter or some social media was the rule and not the exception. I think that allowed her to see that people are more than just their political leanings and come from different backgrounds and have different experiences that shape their own individual world-view.

I'm glad you pointed out that I would have to take the lead in changing how her and I handle conflict. Other things I read or watched from licensed therapists online state a lot of what you said. That being the emotional leader, being more stable, grounded and strong will greatly benefit a relationship and allow things to be sustainable.

She agreed to get together over lunch instead of catching up over the phone. She is leaving town for all of next week and are trying to setup a day the following week to get together. Oddly enough I can't do lunch that following week until the weekend, and one of the two days I'm available during the week for dinner is what would have been our two year anniversary. In our text exchanges neither of us have initiated any sort of acknowledgement to that and I think that may be for the better as we figure out what's going on. I'm not over explaining things with her, meeting her at her level here and keeping things comfortable.



Again, thank you both for your replies and the insight you provided me. As things continue to progress I will try to update this here.

[once removed]

My reaction to break up with her seems to come from my own fear of abandonment/rejection that I'm working on

its good to see this, and to own it. i did the same thing. sometimes i was "serious", over time it became what was really a way of trying to win or get out of a fight, and eventually, "its over" was something we were regularly saying to each other when fighting.

its destructive to a relationship, and its a way of coping with a relationship that is, well, hard to cope with.

abandonment/rejection fears (higher than average) can dictate the way you cope in relationships, and even the relationships you choose.

and needless to say, they dont jive well with a partner who has higher than average abandonment/rejection fears. at the end of the day, its a dance of distrust.

Regardless if my ex and I get back together, it is a major benefit for me to work on those issues.

exactly.

Her feelings and mine are equally important but we can't move forward if it's a one-sided relationship, regardless of which side it comes from. That wouldn't be fair.

a "bpd relationship" will be a lopsided relationship, or a "special needs" relationship. it will not meet everyone, or most everyones idea of what is fair. its important to go into this, if youre going to, with eyes wide open, and with realistic expectations: https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

She agreed to get together over lunch instead of catching up over the phone.
...
In our text exchanges neither of us have initiated any sort of acknowledgement to that and I think that may be for the better as we figure out what's going on. I'm not over explaining things with her, meeting her at her level here and keeping things comfortable.

i think youve got the right handle on it. be cool  

[Xander1024]

I appreciate you saying that. I didn't want to think I was doing anything wrong in my relationship with her, and fell into the classic mindset of "if I love her enough she just get it and work on herself" but instead I was crippling her with my codependency when arguments would arise our mutual fear of abandonment/rejection would kick in and I would call it quits first. Regrettably. It absolutely is destructive, and will be the single biggest hurdle to overcome in rebuilding trust between us for a relationship to work out.

That is a solid point about the relationship dynamic. I understand that the relationship will be lopsided at times. I was simply making a point that I think both of our feelings are valid, and as we figure out things it may seem that if things become so one-sided that it may indicate she is not actually into rebuilding anything with me and I need to just be aware of that and hope she is direct with her intentions as I will need to be with mine. Thank you for providing that link, I am eager to read more on that specific topic.

Haha, thank you. I'm more at ease since we have reestablished communication of any kind. I was trying to push out thoughts of her only to end up obsessing about them, and that's just not healthy.

[Xander1024]

Just wanted to post a minor update and maybe get some perspective on things.

So after she stated she was leaving town and that this coming week would be better I messaged her back those days that would work for me. I haven't heard from her now in just over a week and am wondering what's going on.

I'm looking for more positive things of course. I wanted to message her again today saying something like "Hey, hope your trip this week went well. Do you know which day you'd like to get together this week?" I didn't send it today and am thinking either Sunday or Monday. What are your thoughts, or advice? Again, I'm not looking to simply give up, but I do want to be realistic after my next message, if she doesn't message me back either of those days.

Thank you.

[Xander1024]

Apologies, I couldn't find the edit button to clarify my previous post.

I am beginning to get a little anxious, which I figure is normal when trying to reconnect with an ex after a few months of no contact.

Also, I meant that I would like it if she got back to me Sunday or Monday, but if she doesn't then I will reach out again. After that if there is no reply I imagine I will have to accept that as the only form of closure I will get and begin trying to heal and move on. It hurts. I'm hurting. I just want us to work things out, but I know I can't force her to do anything, nor would I try.

Thank you.

[once removed]

admittedly speculation, but it seems pretty reasonable to think she could be preoccupied, and she did get back to you the first time, which would tend to suggest shes not trying to put you off, but you never know. she could want to, but not want to. she could have wanted to and changed her mind. she could have changed her mind, and she might change it again. 

sure. give it a few more days, put a feeler out. it reiterates your interest, it isnt pushy, its not going to do any harm.

[Xander1024]

Wanted to provide an update. I texted her last Sunday and she replied on Thursday. I replied a few hours later to her response saying I would call her Friday to make set plans. When I called we talked for 2 minutes on the phone. I wanted to keep it short. Not be too involved/eager/etc. We made our plans, were very nice and then I got off the phone.

We met up today to go to an art gallery and had lunch after. In total we spent 2.5 hours together. When we first met up she walked right up to me, arms open, and gave me a hug. We made some small talk and went to buy tickets at the admissions desk, her ahead of me. The clerk asked if we were paying together or separate and she decided to pay for the both of us. The art gallery was pretty neat. We had what I believe was a nice time catching up. Her body language was at first a little rigid but became quite open after a little while. There was mutual interest in each other's lives since we haven't seen each other in over 4 months. I've always tended to lead conversations wasn't too talkative today I think. The conversation the entire day seemed to flow rather naturally. Some lighthearted jokes were said by both of us, and some good laughs. VERY mild flirting. She wore a claddagh ring signaling she is in fact single. I asked her if she is seeing anyone and she said she isn't, and hasn't. She asked me the same question and I said I am not seeing anyone. She was happy to see I've been doing quite well, that work is finally going well, have lost some weight (she said I look really good), fixed some things in my life I thought needed some attention, and was genuinely sad to hear about my grandfather passing back in November. She freely told me she bought a house and even brought up the listing and handed me her phone to see her address and go through the photos, while she was also explaining the setup and telling me her plans for it.

We had lunch after and had a great conversation with good stories and lots of eye contact, but not in an intense/forced way. Nothing ever got too negative during the entire day, and if it started going that way I would steer the conversation to other more positive areas. We did not talk about her and I or our previous relationship. In fact I didn't want to come on too strong or put a lot of pressure on her for the first meeting so I avoided that topic altogether for the first date. After lunch is where I think I may have been a little odd. I walked her to her car and she gave me another hug. I told her it was nice catching up and I had a good time and said I'd like to do it again in the near future. She said she was happy I reached out and we got together, had a nice time and wants to see me again soon. I asked her to call me later this week and she said she would. Then I foolishly made a joke about getting together Wednesday but then backed off stating it was Valentine's Day. She said "maybe we can, but maybe not." Then I said "ok, well maybe I'll just surprise you that day then" and she in an awkward response with a chuckle knowing I was half kidding, "maybe don't do that."

So I've been beating myself up over that last joke and final comment and hope it didn't ruin anything. I believe she is genuinely interested in seeing me again and has romantic interest but is likely scared/timid and needs to sort her feelings out. Through therapy my therapist and I figure she is not fully BPD but rather likely has an avoidant attachment disorder and probably has at least a few BPD traits to a more significant level such as fear of abandonment, feelings of emptiness, anger management issues and some paranoid thoughts. My therapist believes she came up with issues in our relationship because it was going well, I was not cheating on her, was in fact treating her well, and she pushed me away by name calling and putting me down until I eventually left. In other words she created self-fulfilling prophecies and they came about through self-sabotage.

Anyway, I hope she does reach out later this week. If she doesn't I plan on reaching out Friday or Saturday. I hope I didn't scare her off with my final joke and comment. I want to take things slow with her now. Probably by the 3rd or 4th date though if we aren't able to talk about what went wrong in our previous relationship I think I'll have to walk away. I am not open to anything other than a romantic relationship with her. I can't handle being just friends. With all the personal growth I've made in the last 4 months I know I will not beg and plead, make grand gestures, or accept anything less than what I desire. I will not force anything on her. I want it to happen naturally and in the proper time so we can have a lasting, loving relationship. If after 2 months, 3 months at most, nothing has changed and we haven't been able to even begin talking through what went wrong last time then that is a clear sign that I need to move on. I know what I want and it's her, but if she is still so undecided then again after that much time, I need to move on. Is that too rash or something?

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the matter. Any feedback, or your assessment on what the current situation may look like from the outside would be helpful to keep me grounded and living in reality instead of some romantic idea I make up in my head. Any advice for how to maintain my composure and keep my anxiety and obsessive thoughts in check is greatly appreciated. I don't want to come on too strong to her, but I want to be intentional in my actions as everything is developing. It should now be pretty obvious (maybe not?) to her I'm interested because of my dumb joke and I feel she is too, but again, she might be fearful and not sure how to proceed. I've been giving her space and not reaching out constantly. I believe that with space and time she will be more interested in trying again. I'm not trying to plan everything out of course because that never works.

Thanks for reading.

[once removed]

it really sounds like the tone of the date was pitch perfect.

So I've been beating myself up over that last joke and final comment and hope it didn't ruin anything.

probably not. shes probably beating herself up for things she did that she thought were awkward, too.

Probably by the 3rd or 4th date though if we aren't able to talk about what went wrong in our previous relationship I think I'll have to walk away.

this is reasonable. her signals are likely to tell you where its going or isnt going, and chances are by that point, shed want to clarify the status. id encourage you to be flexible, though; if she senses a pressure for commitment, and its ahead of where she is, she could balk.

more pitch perfect dates like that one seem like the best way to build attraction. to a large extent, id follow her lead on "where is this going".

[Pook075]

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the matter. Any feedback, or your assessment on what the current situation may look like from the outside would be helpful to keep me grounded and living in reality instead of some romantic idea I make up in my head.

It sounds like the date went really well and you had just about the best possible outcome. 

I wouldn't worry about the Valentine's comment too much either- you need to be you or it's not a real relationship anyway.  You should go at her pace (just like any relationship) but at the same time, you can't hide parts of you to make the narrative more appealing.  Make sense?

One other thing you mentioned, waiting through a few more months or a few more dates to decide whether to move on or not.  Hopefully you can see that you've already moved on and you can't link your happiness to her anymore.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't work, great as well.  You have to stand on your own two feet regardless and love yourself for you.

[Pook075]

I believe she is genuinely interested in seeing me again and has romantic interest but is likely scared/timid and needs to sort her feelings out.

Oops, I hit return too quickly, wanted to comment here as well.

Let's assume she has BPD....or some borderline traits like you mentioned.  We'd treat this the same either way because it's that fear of abandonment that's dominant.  Like you said, the self-fulfilling prophecy stuff.

You asked her out for Valentine's Day and she said 'maybe'.

Let's forget about you for a moment and focus only on her feelings here.  She could have said 'maybe' because she didn't know how to respond.  Or maybe she wanted to say 'no', but 'maybe' felt safer.  Maybe she wanted to say 'yes' but it felt too soon for that commitment.

She also said that she'd like to see you again soon, talk to you soon, hang out again soon, etc.  That makes me believe that the 'maybe' is more likely a genuine 'maybe'.  The question is what you should do to support her emotionally.

If you wait until next weekend, she's going to think that you asked her out for Valentines and then ghosted her.  If you reach out, maybe she feels pressured or trapped...or maybe she will be excited for the call.  That's the problem with 'maybe', it can mean just about anything.

But if you don't ask her out, then it will feel like rejection or abandonment.  If you do ask her out, it can make her feel awkward and second guess things.  Which is the lesser of two evils...is there a way to follow through without putting her on the spot?

My 'guess' (which means absolutely nothing- none of us are experts here) is that you should reach out with a small, very safe gesture because it affirms your feelings without crossing any lines.  Then let her decide.

I had a conversation with my soon to be ex-wife last week that was right along these lines.  She's been very sick and went to the hospital.  My first reaction was to be there and support her...but maybe that's not what she wants.  We've been separated for 18 months, after all, and divorcing in a few weeks.  But I still care and wanted to express that.

My decision was to compromise- I sent a short text daily asking how she was, and offered to bring her anything she needed or visit her.  I also told her on a short call though how I actually felt; I wanted to be there taking care of her since it felt like second nature.  But I made it clear that I'd respect her and keep distance unless she said otherwise.  I made it very, very clear that it was her choice...while stating what my choice would be as well. 

In other words, I tried to affirm both sides...the abandonment fears and giving her space.

I probably wasn't perfect, but like I told you to do...I didn't try to hide me or my feelings.  I did what felt right while respecting boundaries (hers and my own).  That's a best-case scenario.

Your gal is expecting some kind of contact for V-Day.  Maybe she's excited for it, or maybe she's anxious.  But you made that expectation and need to come through with a compromise that includes an easy out.  I hope that helps!

[Xander1024]

Ok so I didn't reach out for Valentine's Day and it turns out that was a good thing. On Saturday I asked her out for this past Sunday and all I got back was "I've got plans tomorrow." I sent her a follow up message to join me in going and looking at dogs and learning about adoption at the local SPCA and sent a funny dog video I thought she would enjoy. Her reply was "That's girlfriend PLEASE READ and I'm not interested in being your pseudo girlfriend"

So there we have it. We went from being happy I reached out, having a great time together, giving some big mixed signals, showing a lot of interest in person, saying she wants to see me again in the near future, a couple of hugs, etc. to a complete turnaround and aggressive and bitter sounding message like that. That signals to me that she hasn't done any work on herself in the last several months, may not think she has to or is aware she should. As it stands it's best I send my final piece empathizing with her and move on for my own sake. A few of my friends all said it's likely she sees my life going so well and since her's hasn't imporved other than buying a house, that she is jealous or upset and in her normal defensive way lashed out. And that even though she knows she can be a part of my life, her fear/ego/whatever is preventing her from that. I'm sad yes, but I know I'll be ok. Therapy has been a great help, along with support from my friends and family and even the few people who have replied here.

Thank you all for your words of encouragement and the hopeful outlook for me and my ex. I wish everyone a safe, healthy, and happy journey as they work on their own situations. And I hope the people in your lives seek out the help they could benefit from whereas my ex couldn't bring herself to do. I pray she does one day and that I'll hear about it and maybe even reconnect in a positive way, but until such a time I wish her nothing but love and happiness in life.

[Pook075]

Thank you all for your words of encouragement and the hopeful outlook for me and my ex. I wish everyone a safe, healthy, and happy journey as they work on their own situations. And I hope the people in your lives seek out the help they could benefit from whereas my ex couldn't bring herself to do. I pray she does one day and that I'll hear about it and maybe even reconnect in a positive way, but until such a time I wish her nothing but love and happiness in life.

That's a good mindset since you can't force this.  Time heals for both of you, and you alone get to decide how long to wait things out.  There's no shame in walking away if that's what you decide.  Mentally, this has to be about you first and it feels like you've handled it well.

[Xander1024]

Thank you your kind words. My final message to her, unless there is something she has to say was this:

Hey, that’s fine. I respect that. I was only trying to include you in things happening in my life as we started to rebuild a connection. I wasn’t expecting anything from you. Thank you for meeting up with me and trusting me enough to open up, be vulnerable and share everything you did. It was really great to see you and I had a great time. I empathize that you have a lot going on at the moment with your jobs, the house (congratulations again!), money, family, and so on. Because of that I feel like it’s not a good time to continue reconnecting right now or take this any further. I understand if you need more time and space. Therefore, I’m open to reconnecting in the future. I’m secure enough in myself to step back, give you that time and space, and say I care a lot for you, and wish you nothing but love, support, and happiness. I want to be present in people’s lives and have people in my life who want to be there, show up equally, and maintain a relationship. If it’s ever the right time for you to reconnect and do that, don’t hesitate to reach out. Take care.


I would love to hear from her in the future or reconnect again someday. But not in the current dynamic. I can no longer  tolerate being pushed away every time we get even a little close and enjoy being together. I pray in time she sees how her hurts are hurting others and works to address them. Either way, as I’ve said all along, I know I’ll be ok. Thank you!

[Pook075]

Because of that I feel like it’s not a good time to continue reconnecting right now or take this any further. I understand if you need more time and space.

Question- is this what you actually want, or more along the lines of what you think she wants to hear?

I would love to hear from her in the future or reconnect again someday. But not in the current dynamic. I can no longer  tolerate being pushed away every time we get even a little close and enjoy being together. I pray in time she sees how her hurts are hurting others and works to address them. Either way, as I’ve said all along, I know I’ll be ok. Thank you!

You will be okay and that's a mature mindset to have.  Remember that you always come first.

[Xander1024]

Question- is this what you actually want, or more along the lines of what you think she wants to hear?

Admittedly, I’m conflicted. My heart wants her to be in my life and when we got together she made me feel she wants me in hers. Rationally it’s not a good fit right now, maybe ever, and  we don’t want the same thing at the moment. She can’t handle rekindling a relationship currently and the last thing I want to do or be is any extra stress in life, especially if she doesn’t see any value in me right now. And with her being so overwhelmed trying to deal with everything and instead of asking for help lashes out to push me away then I have to respect myself enough to leave the situation. I don’t think what I said is what she wants to hear, but I’ve become secure in myself enough to respect my own boundaries and not let someone I love walk all over me because they don’t know how to control themselves.

Hopefully that answers your question .