So could we have some fun on here in the middle of all this grieving?

[jessedsickabouther]

Maybe I am out of line but I woke up this morning in a different frame of mind for the first time in the two and a half months since I've seen my ex.

I just started thinking that maybe if those of you who are suffering could see a time line and actually make some predictions or show others your timeline of significant events in a very concise format that we could make some sense of what was going to happen next through the form of predictions.

I mean it seems better than whining about this situation all day so I was trying to gauge your interest level if I started the ball rolling. I can make predictions myself after listing my experience since the breakup

Yes everyone is different but if you're in no contact and still trying to find peace I think that there could be some value in watching predictions come true so you can realize that you don't really have any control over these situations and you can stop beating yourself up.

If anyone has any interest let me know and I will start off but if this is somehow inappropriate I completely understand

[C.Stein]

I predict that one day I may eventually reach a place of indifference.

I predict that one day I will eventually die.

I predict I will have to pay taxes until that happens.

[Sunfl0wer]

Reading the stages of detachment may be helpful:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135116.0;all#lastPost

Oh, that is not what you meant... .

More like you want to take bets on possible outcomes?

[Sunfl0wer]

C.stein, of all your predictions, I'm betting 5 cents on you dying.

The others seem uncertain.

Thanks for the reminder... .thoughts of death do give me perspective.

[jessedsickabouther]

Not that's per se but I was just thinking that if we follow for a couple of months each others timeline I think a pattern will emerge based on a set of scenarios that occurred in the relationship. People have a hard time believing that this is really BPD so I thought maybe with enough stories listed in the more concise form like dates and one line of what happened on that day that we could see a pattern. Basically if you knew what was going to happen next it would be much easier to detach. Reading all of these articles and therapy really would help all that much I don't think this board would be so filled up for years by the same people. It was just a thought if no one has any interest then I'm not going to waste my time but I definitely have some thoughts on my own situation and some others I could tell what was going to have been as I was reading a particular persons story or their own timeline

[jessedsickabouther]

I will wait longer to see if anyone has serious interest. Maybe I haven't thought this through but I think over time it would be fascinating if people could keep it short and highlight the serious points. Especially getting input from the wiser members to some of the newbies so that they don't have to suffer for years

[Sunfl0wer]

Yes, seeing a clear pointed timeline with data could be interesting. 

(For the sake of anonymity and the fact it would be hard to recall without much of my own work rereading my stuff... .i'll refrain)

However, are you aware that you can look at any members history and read their prior posts?

I know, this is not as straightforward/concise... .but often inspiring to see how far many members have come.

[C.Stein]

Thanks for the reminder... .thoughts of death do give me perspective.

Yes.  I wonder if I were faced with terminal illness if I would tell the ex.

[Sadly]

"" have fun in the midst of all this grieving"" ! Stop whining" are you for real? I am really glad you woke up in a better frame of mind, glad for you that you are feeling more positive but hey how can you think it might be fun to go raking up and over some of the most devastating sad heartbreaking moments of my life to try and put dates to them? Let me tell you how the minutes hours days blended into weeks of misery so I couldn't even if I wanted to. Go read my posts and believe me they are not as bad as some I have read, then tell me if that is something you could get fun out of if there were dates next to them? I apologise if this is negative in the face of your positive but that's how reading your post made me feel. I can express myself, my weakness and failings on this website and get support, sympathy, empathy and help. To do what you suggest feels like an invasion into my deepest sadness. Sorry, I may be alone in this but I don't mind, alone isn't such a bad place considering my options.

[Sunfl0wer]

Quote from: Sunfl0wer on Today at 11:09:26 AM

Thanks for the reminder... .thoughts of death do give me perspective.

Yes.  I wonder if I were faced with terminal illness if I would tell the ex.

Wow, to think... .

How much he resented me for being ill!  He would be enraged that I would die and burden him by intentionally telling him and putting him through that!

Idk... .He really wasn't a 'bad' guy.  Yet, I honestly think he would have part of himself resentful over it... .maybe another part would be compassionate.  I just don't know.

I do believe tho that he rather not know until very long after the fact.

[Narkiss]

Actually, I don't think it's a bad idea. Not exactly fun... .but useful. Seeing the similarities in other people's stories has helped me start to detach (more or less) and keep from blaming myself (not always successful with that). Although extremely painful and crazy-making, my relationship probably wasn't as long or as awful as many people's here. In fact, I have read several posts by women whom I wondered if they went out with the same person (either because their stories sounded so familiar or their pwBPD said such similar things to them). I even had to pm one person to tell her that no, we were not seeing the same person, because of x, y, z. So yes. I'd be game to try this.

[SmarterNow]

I think it is a great idea... .Obviously not for everyone, but humor can help a great deal just by itself.  Add in some helpful information along the way and bingo.  I assure you I have been no less hurt than anyone... .I still hurt from it... .But I'm happy to laugh too.  I need to laugh.

[Turkish]

Yes, seeing a clear pointed timeline with data could be interesting. 

(For the sake of anonymity and the fact it would be hard to recall without much of my own work rereading my stuff... .i'll refrain)

However, are you aware that you can look at any members history and read their prior posts?

I know, this is not as straightforward/concise... .but often inspiring to see how far many members have come.

A senior member here once told me, "you've come a long way." At first, I took it as a back-handed compliment. I looked back at my initial posts, and they were not bad. Those came soon after, for a long time. Whatever I felt, it was real; feelings always are.

[Sadly]

Sorry Jss, your post caught me at a very bad time. Very bad. I still can't join in and don't think I ever could but I wish you luck with what you are trying to do, please forgive me. x

[jessedsickabouther]

Sadly

I feel your pain.  I hurt all day every day.  I can't even stop ruminating about last week's email and if I handled it right.  So my thought was that if we could help each other depersonalize it by seeing a pattern it could help

[jessedsickabouther]

And it's one thing to see a pattern after its over but to predict and be correct with limited information in advance ein my eyes would help to disconnect.  With a healthy person we wouldn't need this. Sitting back and just observing and then watching it play out would help us feel like there was nothing left we could have done differently because If complete strangers could see what was next it's pretty telling that u had no hope.  Also for some it will make us think about answering the call when it comes

Here I'll start and offer my prediction and anyone that wants to can offer their thoughts and if others post a short dated bio... .I'll offer my thoughts. 

[Sunfl0wer]

So my thought was that if we could help each other depersonalize it by seeing a pattern it could help

Hey,

There is almost always a good response on threads where the format is given.  

How about you redo this thread and include a format for people to follow, such as... .

How many yrs together?

How long was idealization phase?

What was incident that first got you painted black?

How long before first break up?

... .recycle?

Etc... .

Or whatever info you are trying to get at... .(In case I'm not grasping)

Edit:

Here I'll start and offer my prediction and anyone that wants to can offer their thoughts and if others post a short dated bio... .I'll offer my thoughts.

Or starting and an example could be helpful! 

[jessedsickabouther]

Me 45 her 31 me 4 kids every other weekend.  Her none.

My kids liked her. She college graduate. Makes good money.  Anxiety.  Clinical depression.  Several mood medicines.  

Met April 5 2015. Diagnosed BPD waif. Non violent.  No rages. Kind. Giving.  Quiet.  Hospitalized twice prior for cutting . Very affectionate and loving.  Never withheld sex. Intimate the day she left even. Almost every day of 8 month relationship.

Sex first night at her initiation.

She pushed pull for 6 weeks and I went after her because she was so nice

June . Finally she stopped pushing.  Bought a car together.  Spent all our time together.  

I pushed for her to move in in September.  

Found her distancing and short with me.

October we were looking at bigger places and going to buy another car.  

Called me Friday 10  days before Thanksgiving.  :)idnt want to deal with my 7 year old that weekend.  Fight ensued.  Told her she should move out then.

3 days later she cheated . I caught her. She admitted it.  She moved out . Said not in love. Asked to be friends. I said no. 4 days of texting on her end after we said goodbye Sunday Nov 22.

Texting was about non personal stuff that had been resolved.  I ignored.  Thanksgiving she tried again.  I responded to stop and let me go. She tells me she misses me. Gets me to see her.  Sex starts up.  She promises she will work on us.  Is ever more attached and clingy. 3 days later pushes away again searching for that "butterfly feeling "

Promises all in one last time on Dec 2. Dec 3 I come see her at work because she isn't doing well.  Bring her food.  Hug her.  Kiss her head. Never seen her again

Next day I get the dear John text.  I rip her apart for leaving again when I peacefully accepted the first break up out of love and respect.  We were going to go to counseling about the cheating incident .

I call her a name.  She hasn't spoken to me since.

Dec 16. Final contact on my end. Tried to send her an email.  Apologized for the name.  Told her thank you and I love her.  She responds " I'm listening to what you are saying but at this point all we need to discuss is the car and phone so we can move forward "

I told her I was heartbroken and will respect her wishes.  

I have NOT contacted her since.  NOTHING. not xmas. Not her birthday.  New years. Nothing

Since breakup :

Dec 31. Person wishes me the best in 2016 on a texting app I have.  Say it's a wrong number.  I try to reach it back.  No way to reach them

Jan 15. She uses my reward card to redeem all my points at a store. She had a secondary copy of card.  I'm emailed that this transaction occurred

Feb 5. She changes username and password on the vehicle we own. ? Since we both had access. Completely baffled why.  I pay for and drive the car. She doesn't want it but won't ask to be off the loan.

Feb 22. Her first direct contact since Dec 4. Asks me to pay a camera ticket for parking .  Via email at 730 am Monday am. This was a 25 dollar ticket.  Ticket has ballooned to 72 bucks.  She nevery told me. I don't ask why not.  There is also a 400 dollar ticket listed in the email also on my car but doesn't ask for that money for this ticket  

Premise of email was to have the ticket paid to come off credit report.  Still no desire to get me off the loan or her off the loan but is worried about her credit. Paid the ticket and sent her screenshot.  No reply.  No thank u. Nothing

Feb 22. Mailed her back a box of her personal items I had been holding . She never asked for these items.

Feb 23. Called att and asked that they contact her to transfer the phone to my name.  5 minutes later att calls back and she complies.  

No further contact.  

MY PREDICTION :

she won't ask for me to pay the other ticket because she thinks I'll get her off the car loan and that would sever our final connection

Will she reach out again?  Was she fishing?  She doesnt care about 72 bucks.  She left 300 bucks on my pillow when she moved out.  For the kids.

I say some other contact within 30 days.  Sense she might not be triggered anymore. Prob a new bf

Asked the last week if she could come back if she was wrong about love . You can't make this crap up. Chasing a feeling when u got a guy that loves u

Ugh

[once removed]

Basically if you knew what was going to happen next it would be much easier to detach.

the thing is, we went through it. we were in relationships with our exes. we know the patterns that we went through, and to varying extents, we knew them at the time.

i get your point: theres a real sense of validation when you catch wind that theres trouble in paradise and your partners behavior wasnt unique to you.

i thought my exes new relationship would end quickly. my predictions steadily moved from three months to six months... .at some point i stopped caring, but for what its worth, their relationship lasted longer than mine did.

our relationships were unique to us. no one is exactly the same between relationships, though all of us bring certain patterns and habits, and ingrained personality traits (some good, some bad) to each relationship. detaching is less about predictions, or our recovery depending on the failing of our exes or their future relationships, more about examining and healing from the very painful things we dealt with. youre right that we have no control over the futures of our ex; we have a lot of control over our own. are you struggling with aligning your heart and your head, when it comes to what you say you realize?

[jessedsickabouther]

No I just feel bad for so many people on here because these people, borderlines, treat people so horribly.

And if there was anything that I could do to show people that it's not them then I thought it would be worthwhile.

I think I'm actually just getting to the point where I've had enough. I worked really hard on myself after dating my last borderline it was actually extremely narcissistic and I just can't believe I ended up back in a similar situation.

The truth is we are all just wasting our time but at least we're on the leaving board.  All the people sitting on undecided or working on it are who I really feel bad for.

I'm probably going to bail soon because at some point this is becoming counterproductive to life although it has been a lifesaver at times to have this board.

When I think of all of the cheating and lying and abuse of all kinds that we read about on here and then I think about all the things that all of us nons don't know about cumulatively that went on behind our back and that we still don't know about and then I read elsewhere that some of it is deliberate and intentional I am just beyond disgusted really.

If you are really genuinely sick you belong in an institution and if this is something that you can fix for the you can work on and you're not then I have to tell you I don't see this as any better than being a pedophile and I'm sorry but I completely feel that way. Or somebody who is a rapist. I know that might sound extreme but when you think of a physical act of violence the pain goes away the physical pain will heal but you destroy a person's life emotionally and that's why you get a very severe life sentence or long term sense because you can't undo that damage emotionally. And when I trust somebody emotionally and I give them access to all of my vulnerability and share my feelings and give of myself and try to get an equal reciprocation and let a person be involved with my children and watch as they callously and coldly turn on me for no good reason and I have absolutely no recourse it really really makes me angry.

I'm getting tired of us all having to analyze what the hell is wrong with us why we are codependent why we are caretakers why we put others first because we're f****** human beings and we thought the other person loved us as much as we love them that's why we did it. But if we don't spend years analyzing what's wrong with us for being a good person then we just suffer because we don't accept the truth. The truth is if we were dating somebody just like us they wouldn't have one problem at all. Okay I'm exaggerating slightly but you get the point. What should be going on is a massive revolution on TV every night and we stopped allowing this behavior until the whole country is educated on this.

I would venture a guess that most people on here would take a severe beating for an hour over the emotional pain that they've endured for years and I would dare say that includes women who have been emotionally abused by men with BPD.

I'm tired of all of it really. We love who we love and sometimes we can't help who we love when we can't help that we're attracted to this type of person okay. It's not our fault of how we were raised either. I can't control what my mother did to me as a child and I'm not going to spend the rest of my life being angry about it but that is a huge reason why I'm more comfortable around people that need me and it's not much easier for me to change who I am at 8:45 then it is for someone with BPD. But I'm responsible for my actions and I'm just tired that the focus is not more on getting people like this serious help and making the stop because it is becoming an epidemic and it is destroying our country and it is destroying our families and our kids and it is making a lot of people feel suicidal who dated these people. Many of us don't even want to date anymore and if you can't even have basic human affection and connection because you're so scared after what these people did and what's the point of anything.

Lastly please I know that this is a message board and I don't need a pep talk and I don't need to tell me about therapy or lessons I got it I understand I read everything I can get my hands on I'm highly educated I've been through this for two and a half years I know it's futile I know its a waste of my time that is not going to have a happy ending I know all of the stuff I know what's wrong with me I know what's wrong with them I know all the patterns I know everything that you could possibly want to know except what the hell they're going to do next. But it's never good

I'll leave with one final note something my mother said to me about a year and a half ago when she saw that I was missing my ex NPD at the time so not even the girl that I'm upset about now an entirely different girl. She said I know you love her but let me ask you one question have you ever gone back to this girl and NOT been hurt.?

I thought about what she said and I didn't listen and yet I went back again and got slammed with false accusations in a court of law for trying to help somebody. And you can't even defend yourself because nowadays if a girl walks into a courtroom and says you did something wrong if they bring charges its your word vs their word and they will get you to plead to something in order to not risk a more severe sentence. But nothing happens to them because they don't punish. I live my entire life without any trouble and then deal with this bullcrap at age 44. I curl up in a ball on my couch for six months not dating crying over what this girl did to me only to meet what I think is the most wonderful girl and a year later I'm sitting in the exact same position almost accept that this girl has not tried to mess with my life in any way at all. But I opened up to her and I told her everything and she use it against me so put yourself in my position would you trust anybody ever again?

It's rhetorical I don't even care I'm not looking for any comments not looking for sympathy I'm just venting because I know that everything that I'm saying here is true and any of you that I've gone through anything similar probably know almost everything I'm saying is exactly correct

So yeah I just thought maybe anything that could help these poor people out who are on this board because they were left not because they really want to be detached but because they don't have any choice and don't even know what the hell happened to them I was trying to think of anything that might help them see this has absolutely nothing to do with you even if you did mess up we all mess up in relationships but any decent person is going to grieve with you at the end and give you some time to understand if they want to dump you what's going on or why is not a good fit and tell you that you know for a little while if you need to talk to me you can you know barring that you've been very angry or violent with the woman in which case I would understand but any decent human being being wouldn't  let u suffer. And let's not make any more excuses for these people I understand that they have a disorder but when they want something or they need something they have an amazing ability to be the perfect person so don't think that they don't do what they do what they want and that they can't control some of this. They don't want to control it. They don't think like you or I do. In many cases they enjoy it.

Now I'm going to stop because I could really keep going but I don't even want to imagine how long this post is looking. I definitely think I'm going to stop posting and start looking at things that are more productive in my life than wasting another minute on someone that I thought truly love me and wanted to be with me and someone that I adored.

I'be read all your stories on here believe me. Everyone's I read your first post and then I read your last post and I see where you all are at. And I just have a tremendous amount of sympathy for anybody on here. Because if you found this website you probably found it by accident just like I did two and a half years ago because I could not make any sense of what the heck was happening in my life.

Divorce after 14 years in a custody battle for my four kids was a picnic compared to these last two girls and what they did.

[jessedsickabouther]

Correction not 8:45, age 45

[Frank88]

jessedsicka. Great idea I picture it like an after action review or post mortem from a business operation or a sports game or police operation, etc. What happened. How. When. Etc. A lot of us ask about how the relationship started. How long for each phase. How long to have sex. How long to start to see red flags. First major blowup. First breakup. First Charm. Etc. I've kept track of almost everything in my relationship once I saw red flags. Dates. Times. People. It's my business. Keeps me employed and enjoying my work. I didn't think I'd need to use it in my relationship though. We could identify trends and maybe help others see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know we are all different, but there are a hell of a lot of similarities. Think trends like from Freakonomics or metrics from Moneyball. Private message me if you want to chat if this ever gets traction. Maybe build a good survey and publish results.

[jessedsickabouther]

Exactly. It's almost like if you could build enough of a database then you could actually posted somewhere so people would stop wasting their time debating and ruminating and wondering and hoping and you can pretty much use the experience of others to see when you're probably going to get contact what it's going to sound like and how pathetic it really is so that you don't get fooled into believing that these people actually might really love you.

Hope is the last to die

It would take some work but if everybody participated I think that a lot of these newbies coming here to get a lot of valuable information from the veterans

[once removed]

jessed,

you bring up many, many interesting points.

public awareness about and treatment of all mental illness is sadly lacking. the legal system has its biases, particularly the family courts.

what i would like to emphasize though, is that i dont think healing/detaching is about whats "wrong" with us, and i also dont think its as simple as "it was all them and you had nothing to do with it". its more likey somewhere in between. yes we are here to discuss our relationships, gain support and learn about BPD, all of which gives us a better balanced perspective in the post mortum of our relationships, but as we are on the detaching board, the only person who we can change at this point is ourselves. jessedsickabouther, you state that this is not your first rodeo when it comes to BPD relationships. youre not alone in that. youre also not alone in working on yourself, only to go on to make similar choices. im a little bit flabbergasted at my own choices following my uBPDex; lets just say the outward signs were far more glaring. presumably, we all want to love and be loved, and go on to have healthy, loving relationships. it is possible and we have every opportunity. it takes work, a lot of which youve done, and you have my congratulations. you also have my encouragement to dig in, and grow, as a result. you have a lot of understandable pain and anger, and i feel for you. i know what its like to not trust the opposite sex, to the point that it really becomes about not trusting oneself, and thats terrifying. but for example, can you see where that might make a person less emotionally unavailable to a healthy, loving, accepting partner? there are plenty of non disordered women out there. you indicate you are attracted to this "type". i encourage you to explore what that means to you, and how the things you have uncovered are a part of this attraction; that is, if you want to change it. you certainly do not have to. there is "life after BPD". there is happiness, peace, freedom, opportunity, and healthy relationships.

ps. im not knocking down your idea. i get it. you feel for the others hurting, and youd love to be able to tell them all the same thing and have them get it. for the majority of new members, thats unlikely to happen, and there really is no one size fits all. yes we have a lot in common, but we do not all have the same story, and we will not all have the same outcomes.

[jessedsickabouther]

Good points.  We don't all have the same stories.

but I bet we will all have the same outcome... .

[SmarterNow]

jessedsickabouther ... .I love the "rant"... .so many valid points - really, too many to call out.  I can tell you there is nothing wrong with me... .it was her.  I'm imperfect as we all are but I say again, there is nothing wrong with me.  I don't need to work on myself any more than any normal person needs to work on themselves because we aren't perfect, but I reiterate there is nothing wrong with me.  I dare say there is nothing wrong with a lot of you ... .you just walked into it with good intentions, met someone you care about and did everything in your power to have a meaningful relationship with someone only to find out they don't have the capacity to do that in return.  They are emotionally immature... .even worse... .These people are ultimately cold, cruel, heartless... .will inflict pain and suffering like you can't imagine... .like you could never have predicted... .and why?  because we are mostly normal decent people who wouldn't treat our pets this poorly... .hell, our plants... .much less a partner. 

The point is, when the BPD "turns", you are sliced up and nobody nobody nobody deserves that. It's like these greedy scam artists with the silver tongues who talk elderly people out of their retirement money under the guise of an investment and go spend it on yachts and hookers. They get thrown in jail.  BPD's do the emotional equivalent of that ... .preying on good people... .and their reward is that they move on to the next relationship without guilt ready to repeat the process and use up someone else's good intentions.  They are consumers of your good will and kindness and caring and when they think they have drained you of that, they will go find another victim... .and you are immediately discarded (at least I was ... .completely ghosted... disappearing act... .out of the blue)  and why?  We never knew the other person brought a vial of poison into the relationship and it was going to be used on you.  Normal people would never expect that. 

jessedsickabouther, you have me a little worked up and angry, too.  The only consolation for me - and it isn't much - is that I hope at some point they get better, take an account of their lives and realize how awful they are and how awful they have treated people.  I told my exBPD that I hope she has people in her life or someone in her life that she can lean on and that I wish her strength... .and while I meant it, I am confident she will live the rest of her life and have a series of broken relationships and disappointments... .and quite honestly, I think she will cause the problems, leaving a trail of hurting and wounded people and therefore deserve everything - including an empty existence full of loneliness that is coming... .which is very sad for everyone.   Its like watching a disaster play out in front of you and you have to sit there and watch people get destroyed because you can do so little about it... .knowing the ice is going to break and you can't tell the kids playing on it. 

I applaud the effort to document... .there are patterns... .and while everyone is different and there are many variables ... .there are many recurring events that can be predicted... .and you are correct... .the end will be the same.

[SmarterNow]

For the record ... .I have deleted all of my communications and I don't remember the timelines exactly:

Feb 2015:  Met up again with a woman that I have known for many many years - 12 + (former employee of mine - high performing type, great worker).  and began relationship

progressed awesomely through December 2015.  Can hardly think of an argument much less an tirade or "episode"

Late December:  Not willing to go on any trips together

Holidays:  For various reasons - mostly my schedule we didn't see each other a lot ... .but some for sure.  (FYI - we never lived together, but were talking as if we would this coming summer when everything lined up for us)

Minor argument (in my mind regarding the issue of trust on Jan. 4th ... .and nothing ever happened to warrant a conversation about trust (no lie, no awkward moment... .really nothing but what was brewing in her head.  FYI - I had no idea what BPD was and had never heard of it)

Jan 5th:  I woke up and was blocked from every form of communication... .there was no response to any and every form of communication.  We had been speaking throughout the day and every evening like two people crazy in love for 8 months.  I saw her several times a week... .but suddenly no more ... .she completely disappeared.

Jan 10th: Dropped the Christmas gifts she gave me on her porch in a bag - I couldn't look at those items.  They were symbolic and sweet on Dec 25th but just ridiculous and painful now.

Jan 20th:  I write the letter of all letters to her.  I call her out for every ridiculous action she took ... .her lies, cowardice, immaturity, intentional inflicting of pain with silence - 5 pages of calling her out on all of the nonsense that had occurred since the JAn 5th ghosting and recalling all of her words.

Jan 22nd: After many many failed attempts to reach her, I knocked on her door (not in anger), but to find out if she was OK... .needed space, was done with me... .just anything ... .freakin tell me something... .simply communicate some thought to me that I could process or chew on.  NO - she called the police to have me removed from her property... .for simply knocking on the woman's door.  The police would not let me leave the letter I wrote and I left. I went immediately to the post office and mailed it to her and sent an email of the exact letter.

JAn 23rd: She said there was a lot to process in the letter and that she would respond

JAn 23rd - Feb 5.  We exchanged many emails that were initially cordial.  I had a range of emotions and asked if there was any chance we could work things out... .no.  All of her emails were very unemotional... .robotic ... .strange.  All reassured me that she could not trust me... .she told me never to come by again (no worries there), that breaking up is difficult for everyone, etc.  I eventually reminded her of things in my original letter and that she had done a lot of things that were inexcusable - including ghosting me and calling the police.  She told me she did not want to open another email reading about how bad she was... .she justified calling the police and said I gave her no warning I was coming by and that it is not a social norm for someone to just show up (of course I couldn't have - she had blocked me out on every means of communication) and of course, never once apologized for the way she handled everything.  I reminded her of her failure of social norms and beyond that... .treating someone with whom you are having a serious relationship with some semblance of decency and respect instead of playing hide and seek like a 5 year old.

In the last two weeks, I discovered the term BPD ... .and read as much as I could about it.  Wow - eye-opening... .and not at all comforting even though it explained a lot of the behavior that I couldn't understand or reconcile.  I sent an email this past week telling her that I have done a lot of research and I believe I am confident that I know what she is dealing with to the extent I can.  I made it very clear that I know what she has though I did not spell it out with the term BPD.  I wished her the best - congratulated her on her ability to deal with the problem as effectively as she did (I didn't see a lot of the BPD traits and she is high-functioning) and I doubt we will ever communicate again.

The last two weeks have been much better, although I have been obsessing on learning about BPD and have lost some focus on work and other aspects of my life.  I just had to learn more about BPD. The first 4-5 weeks was hell ... .gut-wrenching.  The silence was so cruel and abrupt... .I never saw it coming and I am pretty perceptive.  I was whacked with a board with no warning and have been trying to come to grips with it ever since.  I could not make sense of it for a good 5-6 weeks.  A range of emotions from sad to angry to thoughts of revenge (didn't act on any of it), to writing everything down... .to being miserable... .disappointed in her... .driving down the road with tears coming out of my eyes... .laying down in the middle of the day with a heaviness that I couldn't deal with ... .being beside myself with thoughts all up and down the spectrum.  It was awful.

I am better now ... .certainly not out of the woods.  If she dared contact me now there is no telling how I would respond ... .could be sweet or might want to give her a taste of he own medicine. 

Over the last couple of weeks, I have tried to do things ... .go golfing, my softball season started up again last week... .work out ... .anything to try to get my mind off of things.  IT doesn't work as well as you want it too but you do it anyway. (Pus there is always some stupid reminder ... .she had bought me golf balls and they were engraved with a sweet little message.  I had forgotten about that and looked down before a shot and saw that engraving and could barely gather my thoughts and was bummed the rest of the day, but I played anyway and put on a good face with my friends)

So people ... .it sucks and it ain't easy.  There will always be reminders but I can say here on Feb 29th I still hurt, but not like I did a month and a half ago ... .and not like I did 3 weeks ago.  I still have my moments and it still hurts a lot, but I am crawling out of it.  I can tell.  Next week will be better and next month will be even better.

I'm not going back... .never will.  I will never fall into this trap again... .after all, my name on this board is Smarternow.   






 

[Narkiss]

I have not heard of one of these relationships working -- no matter how long they last -- unless the BPD commits to therapy and even... .They all follow the same arc and crash. I have no doubt that my BPD will seek out another person, whom he thinks will save him (if he has not already) and the same thing will happen again -- and again -- and again. I'm sure there were many Narkisses in his past. I was in an especially vulnerable point in my life and ignored the red flags, because I wanted this so much to work. I assumed I was in a relationship with a troubled, but loving, honorable and responsible person who understood what a relationship is and meant what he said. He needed so much for me to accept him and so I did. It is my fault that I ignored so many warning signs and excused away bad, selfish behavior. But that is all I will take responsibility for.

Happy to post the relationship timeline. I find it helpful myself to see the patterns. For instance, I can contact him and he will remember he loves (or feels great love for) me, and misses me. We will have a wonderful conversation and maybe see each other. And that will be wonderful too. But within two weeks, it will all change and he will come up with some crazy scheme with his separated wife and become enmeshed with her. And because I can predict exactly what will happen, I can force myself to avoid contacting him. I think that yes, they will eventually get divorced. But I probably won't be around by that point. And if I am, I won't want him.

[jessedsickabouther]

You know what I asked my most recent ex for when she was dumping me for the second time in two weeks? And keep in mind this is a girl that has been diagnosed and has been in DBT therapy. I told her if you want to do anything for me at all don't date anybody else.

You know you can make a lot of comments about relationships don't work out and both of us are to blame but if you know that there's something wrong with you and you're doing crap wrong the last thing you should be doing is running out and getting involved with another person.

I'm a guy and I'm a fairly decent looking guy and I'm a funny guy and I have no problem at all getting girls if I want. Usually when I go out on the first date they are the ones trying to sleep with me I don't even put any effort into it and I'm not saying that in a bragging way maybe all girls are like this now a days I have no idea but I'm just saying that I've put everything on the shelf for the last 3 months and I can't even imagine putting my hands on another woman right now

You're telling me that a 31 year old woman doesn't know to just have a conversation with me and break up and then go out and get a guy a couple days later. I told her how pretty she was and that her ex boyfriend was good looking and that you have no problem getting somebody but how about you have a little dignity and a little bit of respect for the relationship at least a little bit. You're not stupid she has a government clearance job making over $80,000 a year and she went to a prestigious university so don't tell me that she's dumb.

You know when I was getting divorced for years ago or separated I guess almost 5 years ago now I went to therapy locally  because I was having a very difficult time with what my ex wife was doing and the effect on my children. And I remember very vividly sitting in the waiting room one of these times and there were there these girls that were about 20 to 30 years old that came in and they were clearly waiting for a group session and they were talking about stuff that blew my mind. They were all good looking and all I could think was all my god I cannot imagine that these are real people that like they're talking this way and I would have had nothing to do with them no matter how hot they were. Then a few months ago I went back into the same therapist facility and the therapist I got that day was the one who was holding BPD classes and I started putting two and two together and realized these are the type of people that she's trying to help

I've been lucky to have some girl friends who have been telling me all of the manipulations and lies and two of them warned me after 1 week that I should not have anything to do with my ex. Of course both of these girls were interested in me so I figured they were just jealous but they've actually stayed pretty good friends and they have helped me tremendously to seeing how much of this is just BS. A lot of us are literally crying on here feeling compassion and sorry for these girls when they're so filled with anger and hatred and resentment that you have no idea what they do in their free time when they are alone and what they think and their minds turn to something evil and they think everyone is out to get them and that they are a victim and you can't explain it to them. I've learned just to shut the hell up and not even try to talk to my ex and believe me she was a very quiet person where we never had any bad arguments well we had we had one argument one time where I had had enough she called me an a****** and I called her the B word and she was shocked and I was like oh my god I'm dead now and I never forget that she came right over to me and cuddled up next to me for calling her the B word. We went to sleep in each others arms and we didn't speak another word. This is what they like. It's freaking bizarro world Jerry ought to do a show on this

Honestly I'm so educated and sickly in tune with these girls that I could go get her back if I wanted to even though we haven't spoken in two and a half months and you know what you could get him back either way as long as you don't mind knowing that you're going to get rejected when you first go back. See it doesn't matter because either they're going to be missing you on some level and be open to your contact although that is not likely or they're going to basically tell you to F off but the seed has been planted. So once you've made the effort their mind starts turning and they stop hating you or at least enough to contact you again within a few weeks trust me I've seen this before I know how it works. If I was a manipulative little sob I be banging my ex again within the next month guaranteed. But I don't underestimate the world of hurt that she could put on me in the end because I'm not disconnected for from her

I could play the stupid game believe me. You haven't broken up with these girls believe me you haven't. My ex would not even contact me right now to get herself off of the car loan that she is on because she knows damn well that would be our last connection severed and she's she would rather risk me not paying the bill or me getting tickets then she would not have something with both of our names on it. What does that tell you. And when she email me last week asking for money for a ticket when I knew damn well she don't care about the money I sent her personal items back and I cut the phone issue between us so I remove two of our three connections in less than 24 hours and isn't it funny that a week later she hasn't tried to say while you're getting too many tickets on our car together and I'm so scared about our credit that I think you need to get off of it?

My point is that they have a messed up mind and I'm sadly becoming way too familiar with how it works

[jessedsickabouther]

Actually I got up a good rant going and I'm going to just give a little bit more while I'm on a roll

In keeping with the theme of this thread there is such a huge part of me that wants to put all my theories to test. So I got passive aggressive contact at least twice for sure maybe a third time and none of it made any sense at all. And then last week I got direct contact asking me for money. Again this contact didn't even make any sense I showed it to my ex wife she said it was just illogical. I'll spare you the details

So now I'm thinking that my ex has been trying to make sure that there is still some connection between us and she's feeling out my reaction. So I gave her none I knew it was coming I knew that something was going to come up so I just did exactly what she has and I paid the bill. Now and then normal relationship this is what you would do when you break up but with a BPD girl it's never about what they say it's about. So she bought a phone for me last June and I've been paying for it and using it since then even after the breakup. Well the week we broke up she changed the password to that and she never changed it back so for the past 3 months he's been able to see who I text you I talk to and pretty much control the phone and she knows that I still have the phone and she can see that I pay it. And I'm pretty sure that she left some items behind intentionally as well due to the location of said items

So I played her little game but not how she thought it was going to play out. She thinks that she knows me but I have gained a tremendous amount of strength as an individual in the past few years like a biblical proportion of strength and I don't let people F with me anymore if I know about it. Now the old me might of thought oh she's missing me and tried to start up a conversation or ask how she's doing now no way. Forget it. That's what she wanted she wanted a little bit of attention she wanted me to fawn over her

But it backfired on her because the very next day I called AT&T and they put her on the spot basically and they said he wants you to transfer the phone to his name and cut off all responsibility. Again a normal person will be relieved to not have to worry about this but if she really cared about this she would have asked me to get off the phone 3 months ago and been persistent in this but she likes it she likes knowing that I'm using the phone in her name. Well now she doesn't even know if I've changed my number or not so that's going to get her mind thinking. And then I returned all of our items purposely after holding them for 3 months. Not because I was being a jerk but because she never asked for them and I don't think she really cared as they weren't anything all that significant. So she got that back to and yes I did it deliberately

I want her to think up so I don't think I should have bother him for a $70 ticket when it was a $25 ticket to begin with and you never told me about it so it escalated. Because now he seems pissed he doesn't want the phone with me he doesn't want my items in his house he doesn't want anything to do with me. The truth is I still miss her but I'm sure as hell not going to tell her that

But I would bet you money that she's sitting there thinking I better keep my mouth shut or he's going to tell me to get off the car and then is going to driver absolutely not because she will have nothing left to talk to me about in the future. She would have to blatantly ask how I'm doing or ask for something to do with the two of us and risk putting herself out there

I'm proud of how I treated her overall I mean I made some mistakes but for what she put me through in the first two months with the back and forth crap I think the mistakes were legitimate

No I could be wrong about all of this and she could just not give a crap at all but she made a point of asking if she could come back if she was wrong about everything why she's breaking up with me.

But my prediction is she thinking long and hard before she establishes any other contact with me and if she really values my name on the same car loan as her again as stupid as this sounds she was think very very very hard before she says anything to me.

Conversely if I really wanted to see her I could figure out some way to get her to just see me for a couple of minutes even say that I have to drop something off for her for a minute and if she bite and she sees me in person trust me I walk away and the wheels are in motion and boom we are right back into something sooner or later.

I've seen it I've lived it I've done it with other girls that had BPD I just didn't know they had BPD and I've seen the cycles and three months seems to be about the time when things start to come around again. This time I'm just trying to avoid what I know is inevitable. She's my drug and I'm never ever been into drugs and she could give me a fix but I'm going to be hurting so bad if I go back for it because even knowing how the game is played and what they think you can not beat these people they are master master master manipulators to a degree that you do not even comprehend trust me. They think on a level that you cannot even fathom in your mind. You could not even conjure up the well thought out things that they come up with of how to get you to do things. Regular girls are manipulative enough by nature but these girls are like regular girls times 10. Regular girls know they can manipulate you but they don't do it very often they pretty much take it easy on you since they control everything and they have all the power and guys don't think that a woman does not have all the power. They allow you to have whatever power you have I don't care who you are

This is a game you can not win ok. If you need any other proof if you have any doubt if you're holding on to any hope if you're still in love with your ex and you think when she contacts you that she's been missing you and that you're going to be the one that has the success story let me tell you this. Go on the internet 24 hours a day and Google and search for one guy story just one just find me one and send me the link that she broke up with him and she cheated or lied and she came back and they both went to therapy and she stayed and she never did anything again and they're having a very happy relationship. Find me one find me a guy who says that there was a misunderstanding and his girl is much better now

You can keep these girls in your life if you really want to I'm telling you right now if you could just disconnect from them you could keep them in your life. But you don't want to do that you think that you want to do that because believe me I know how you feel every part of your body aches for them it could be a year 2 years later and you still can't stop thinking about them everyday.

But there will be a price to pay for this dalliance.

So I keep my mouth shut and I observe and at this point I do whatever she asks and so far all she's asked for a $72 so she got her $72. What more do you want to say to these people. Do you think it matters what you say. They don't want to hear about anything that they done wrong so you can't even resolve an issue. They love it if you tell them everything that you did wrong but how can you go tell them everything that you did wrong if they're not even willing to take any responsibility. They will tell you that they are sorry and they love you if you go back but they won't tell you why and they have no ability to change or grow.

My ex got a bogus restraining order on me and I had never been in trouble before in my life this was two years ago ok and the judge asked her if one year would be enough for her and I stood there incredulous that he was going to give it to her. This is a girl that have punch me in the face and done other things as well and I just could not believe it. She turned to the judge and she said I wish that it could be forever. I went out to the parking lot of the court and SAT in my car sobbing like a f****** baby that this is the person that I love. 4 weeks to the day after that because I sent her back a box of her belongings through a friend she called me crying telling me how much you love me and that she overreacted and she wanted to see me and within 4 hours were back in bed so do you really think anything is ever over?

And the feeling was so good that it was worth me risking getting in trouble that's how stupid I was

You don't even want to know the hell I suffered after that trust me I wouldn't work wish it on my worst enemy. So yeah you can reasonably predict what's going to happen but none of its going to be good it all ends up in the same place and I promise you that.

[pigasos9]

Shocking similarities, wow