Told him he had a choice

[ziniztar]

Today he was supposed to come to my city. After the first few weeks of pulling me back in after he cheated, he is now slacking off again. Making excuses.

I asked: what time will you be here?

'I don't know, I don't feel well.'

(he is hung over and is mentally tired of all the stuff that happened)

':)o you want to stay at your place?'

'I don't know. I don't want to come to yours.'

'Okay. In that case, we maybe better quit things here. I am okay with the borderline emotions, I am okay with other struggles. But when you stop making an effort to see each other, that is where I draw the line. I want more out of a r/s than that.'

At first he didn't believe me. Luckily I was very calm and actually even willing to break things off right there, over the phone. I wasn't pissed, or annoyed, I was just determined that I wouldn't cave in this time. We had a 25 min and very calm chat.

He mentioned 'I feel like I have to change to be with you and I don't want to.'

'Well, that's ok. Then you don't and I draw a line that I say that it's not enough for me anymore. That is okay. Yet if you want this r/s and me, you have to get through this yes.'

He is coming over right now. 'I don't want to come over but I will. You don't deserve it like this.'

Good things

• He is still willing to do stuff for me and that is a good motivation to push through certain internal boundaries



• I stayed supercalm and felt strong, which gives hope for the future



• He said: "I don't have faith in me, in anything. Except for the business I am taking over, I really think that is the only thing I can do."

Well there you have it; the thing I hope to get passed. The point where he is getting his own business and will be building his self-esteem. All we need are a few good nights without a lot of fights. I am determined I can do this now in a warm and loving way without sacrifying my own needs and I'm happy he is willing to do his part.

Waverider, I believe it was you who said that in order for things to get better, you need momentum that is not initiated by the pwBPD (because they lack faith), but by the non. I think that just happened. Let's see what happens next .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MissyM]

I am determined I can do this now in a warm and loving way without sacrifying my own needs and I'm happy he is willing to do his part.

Awesome!   

[Grey Kitty]

I'm hoping for the best for you, zin! Knowing what you need and speaking it is very good.

What he's doing--pushing himself to do something for you that he doesn't feel like he wants... .sounds like a change. If he's up for it, this is great! If he's not... .well, you should have the boundaries to deal with it if he blows up, at least.

[ziniztar]

Thanks both.

I do really think I can do it... then again, when he got to my place I immediately felt stressed about how depressed he is. I live with someone else in an apartment and his g/f was there as well. It's quite confronting to witness a 'normal' r/s from up so close, so when the two of them are there I feel like their eyes are poking as to how abnormally distant we are towards each other. It is easier when we're alone at the house because then I don't feel like such a loser for choosing this r/s.

He made two comments that hurt me (he defended my sister when I was explaining about an argument I had with her, and he was pissed at me for lending his robe when I went to the sauna. I asked - he didn't reply - I used it - he got mad. I can get furious that even these little things already can set him off, like it's a minefield to communicate with him.) So I felt I had to quit things, and we had a talk again. For the first in a long time I saw intense fear in his eyes again and right after I felt I didn't want him to leave. That fear is so heartbreaking - and validating. All I need is some signs that he wants to be with me and even that fear is a sign. As is his 'behaviour' when we sleep; he keeps pulling me really close which is so warm and loving.

We had a good night sleep which is important. I'll see him tomorrow again, just for a sleepover. I think I just have to keep up building good nights without fights. Talking and expressing doubts okay, but not fights. Maybe it was too ambitious to think I could pretend we would have a normal evening without irritation.

I texted him I valued he came to my place even when he was feeling so bad. I think that's all I can do for now.

I just don't know how long I want to be with someone that is having such a hard time being with me.

[Haye]

It certainly sounds like progress. Slow and small, but progress yet.

I'd say he has most trouble in being with himself?

[ziniztar]

I ended it.

He thought it was worthless yesterday, blamed me for his mental tiredness, didn't want to see me on Tuesday again. I don't want to be with someone that I have to keep convincing he wants to be with me.

I really feel determined that I've learned enough over the course of this but that I also don't want to keep going on with him like this.

Can people please not tell me I have made a wrong choice, I really want to stick with this decision.

[Panda39]

I think you made a good healthy choice for you and I also want to acknowledge that it wasn't easy but like your own motto says... .There can be no change without action. 

No break up is easy, hang in there 

[hope2727]

Zinizar,

I am sorry. I think you have to do what is best for you. You are worthy and deserving of a healthy and fulfilling relationship. We all are.

People who want to be with you will cross oceans of fire to do so. Look at the m mountains you have climbed to be with him. IF he wants to be with you he will face his demons and get well. If not then you can rest at ease that you have made the right choice.

I am still sorry. It is always hard to lose someone we love. I have immense respect for you that you are so strong. Keep going. Your journey isn't done yet. 

[ziniztar]

Thank you, all.

The hard thing is: people that really want to be with you will move mountains, etc, yes. That sounds like someone with BPD starting a r/s. When we got together I thought "I've finally found someone that is head over heals, this must be it!" Now I know there is a more subtle way of this, that is a lot healthier, that I will want to look out for.

If he really is facing his demons then maybe things can happen. But, in all honesty, I don't think it will. I feel for him because I saw the fear in his eyes yesterday when I told him to leave, thinking about that makes my eyes tear up (and I'm at work ... ) It makes me very indecisive and I hate that. I've read a lot about 'addictive relationships' and how it can become impossible to break away from them. Reading all these stories of people already having children, or having dealt with this behaviour for 18 years and wanting out, makes me feel like I still have a chance of choosing something better.

I texted him and said I hope this will give him the room and space he needs. That I might be willing to talk things over after a while but that I can't promise him I haven't moved on by then. For now, it really has ended. I feel hurt and sad, but I think those are normal emotions when you are grieving the loss of something you thought was good. But I have to acknowledge that it wasn't good. I read somewhere in a folder about attachement that people with anxious attachement styles tend to have relationships with each other. And that healthy attached people will sooner quit relationships with anxiously attached people, because they know there is something better out there without having to 'pull so hard'. I think I have reached that point, now.

[Grey Kitty]

           

I don't think you made the wrong choice at all.

My only suggestion is to stop this:

I texted him and said I hope this will give him the room and space he needs.

Being stuck in his world, his feelings, and not taking care of your own is much of what got you into this situation.

Focus on yourself, and your needs, your wants, your dreams, and your healing.

I think as you do this, you will find more peace with your decision to end this. Or if you don't, you will know that you needed to make some changes, and want to give it a new try in a different way.

Take good care of yourself. That may mean limiting or eliminating contact with him for a while.

 GK

[livednlearned]

I read somewhere in a folder about attachement that people with anxious attachement styles tend to have relationships with each other. And that healthy attached people will sooner quit relationships with anxiously attached people, because they know there is something better out there without having to 'pull so hard'. I think I have reached that point, now.

Hi ziniztar,

How do you feel when you think about reaching this point: "knowing there is something better out there without having to 'pull so hard'."

[ziniztar]

I feel proud I guess. I know I've gotten to a place where I wanted to go for such a long time.

It doesn't mean I will choose the other option, though. I don't mind pulling so hard but it has to be a choice and it never was.

As I was already saying in other topics I am sure this was the right option for now. I want to go out and start dating other guys that are seemingly healthy. Without being scared of them hurting or abandoning me - I don't feel wounded or like I'm mistrusting people anymore. But I do also know that I care for dBPDbf and wish we could make things work. He needs to do work on his part, and I hope he will be doing that in the next couple of months. By then I will have detached a little... we'll see what happens then.

[livednlearned]

I want to go out and start dating other guys that are seemingly healthy. Without being scared of them hurting or abandoning me - I don't feel wounded or like I'm mistrusting people anymore. But I do also know that I care for dBPDbf and wish we could make things work. He needs to do work on his part, and I hope he will be doing that in the next couple of months. By then I will have detached a little... we'll see what happens then.

How do you feel about being alone for a bit and seeing what comes up for you? There is a bit of a pinball effect when we move too quickly from one relationship to the next. Often people just look for the opposite of what they just left (reacting), instead of developing a solid home base you can use to anchor yourself when the next person comes along (grounding).

Some people are able to heal and learn while dating, but it can also shred your heart at a time when it needs some TLC from you, yourself, and I. 

[ziniztar]

How do you feel about being alone for a bit and seeing what comes up for you? There is a bit of a pinball effect when we move too quickly from one relationship to the next. Often people just look for the opposite of what they just left (reacting), instead of developing a solid home base you can use to anchor yourself when the next person comes along (grounding).

Yeah I was thinking that too. I don't think I'll get into a new r/s real soon, depending on the guys I meet of course. I can see your point on reacting. I do think that my healing already started 2 months ago when he cheated on me. That's when the real detachment started, that's when it really hurt. That's where I started realizing we might not have a future together. The past few weeks have been hopeful but I already noticed something changed. I was more me again, because he took away all 'goodwill'... .it helped me realize how a r/s could be without being obsessed with him all the time. And I think that helped me get to the point where I could see that this was not good enough for me anymore.

Some people are able to heal and learn while dating, but it can also shred your heart at a time when it needs some TLC from you, yourself, and I.  

Thanks. I read a new research on detachment; people will obsessively anxious attachment styles tend to detach quicker when someone new is involved. I know that I can stay emotionally attached for over a year; I've already had a few cases like that, keeping me unavailable for new people all the time. I'm already noticing this can happen again; I hope, hope, hope (read: wishful thinking) that this unexpected healthy move from my side will shake xdBPDbf's ground in such a way he can get past his idle state of progress/therapy. It is however not the reason why I did this, I really was fed up with having to beg for attention, time and love that he couldn't give me.

So, long story short, dating can help me detach.

I was in a r/s with a nice, healthy attached guy for 2,5 years that unfortunately was a pathological liar. No healthy attachement can undo that behaviour. Either way, I was so sad when we broke up, cried in front of his house, had sex a few times, I wrote him a huge letter how I thought we could get back together. On the night before a party where I would see him again, I met a new guy (NPD in hindsight, ouch). The mere thought of someone else, the possibility of someone else, made me realize I didn't want to continue the r/s with the other guy. The next day he stayed after the party and told me he wanted me back, and I said no.

Hadn't I met that other guy, I would have said yes... .and god knows what would have happened then. He is still in my circle of friends and I know that he is still lying, nothing has changed. I guess I'm kinda hoping for something like that, now. I know I have to take this slow. A guy asked me out today and instead of saying yes immediately (afraid to loose the option) I said: Mmm nice idea, but not today. How about Sunday? I feel like a lot has changed in me in the past couple of months, learning from all the lessons, stories and good advice here. Going to therapy. Reading "Reinventing your life" from Young & Kosko, the initiators of schema therapy. They mention warning signs for potential new lovers. I tend to choose people that are unavailable due to their NPD tendencies or because they are weak/depressed in a different way. That way I can be the upper one (to soothe my feelings of inadequacy and shame) and I somehow reassure they need me. So, I'm trying to look beyond that this time.

In the mean time I've sent dBPDbf how I feel we needed to separate in order to find out if we're staying in the r/s because we're afraid to let each other go, or because we really want to make this work. He even mentioned 'if only we could stop for a year and then start again', he feels like he needs time and space to work through things but didn't want to loose me in the process. I told him I'll leave him alone for a while now and we'll call next week.

- If he replaces me rapidly - he has no intention of changing his patterns and my choice was right.

- If I find someone else that is more stable and loving - I made the right choice to let go to make way for new things.

- If we both end up missing each other - we found out because we had to let go and were able to discover our feelings without them being clogged by fear.

Either way, I made the right choice. Just need to live day by day now.

PS: great book for everyone.

www.schematherapy.com/id202.htm

[MissyM]

I was in a r/s with a nice, healthy attached guy for 2,5 years that unfortunately was a pathological liar. No healthy attachement can undo that behaviour.

Have you read the book Attached?  It talks about attachment styles and what to look out for when dating.

[ziniztar]

Thanks Missy, I haven't. I might take a look at it.

I miss being on the staying board. The people are nice here, there is a lot more resentment at the Leaving board that I am not feeling towards dBPDbf. I guess I have to deal with that.

[livednlearned]

Thanks Missy, I haven't. I might take a look at it.

I miss being on the staying board. The people are nice here, there is a lot more resentment at the Leaving board that I am not feeling towards dBPDbf. I guess I have to deal with that.

Maybe the personal inventory board would be a better fit? I also found a lot of healing on the Building Healthy Relationships board. In the process of staying, you may have developed a lot of awareness and gained skills that leap frog you over the anger that can sometimes go with grieving/leaving.

[ziniztar]

Thanks Missy, I haven't. I might take a look at it.

I miss being on the staying board. The people are nice here, there is a lot more resentment at the Leaving board that I am not feeling towards dBPDbf. I guess I have to deal with that.

Maybe the personal inventory board would be a better fit? I also found a lot of healing on the Building Healthy Relationships board. In the process of staying, you may have developed a lot of awareness and gained skills that leap frog you over the anger that can sometimes go with grieving/leaving.

Hmmmm good advice  , thanks.