all the things she said...

[struggli]

1.  You understand me better than anyone

2.  You don't understand me at all

1.  I'll do anything for you

2.  Don't tell me what to do

1.  I'm trying so hard to be good for you

2.  You want to change me

1.  I love the way we have sex

2.  I don't like sex

1.  When I look at you, I think "that's my man."

2.  I can't be with you if I'm still thinking about my ex.

Ironically, just as I was about to post this message, I got two impersonal/indirect texts from her after not a word for two months.

[gina louise]

struggli

I got:

1.You are the Love of My Life.

  2. You were a Horrible wife.

1. You are eternally connected to me.

   2. You DESTROYED MY LIFE! get the EFF out!

1. I NEED you. Only you know who I really Am.

   2. I have Nothing to Offer You.

1. Work with me, we can fix this.

   2. We were never compatible. At all.

1. Maybe I am messed up. Crazy. I've seen 3 therapists.

   2. You need Help. I'm FINE.

1. I will always support you. We are a Team.

   2. You need to give me your money. Or pay ALL the bills, your call.

crazy making... huh?

GL

[mnwushu89]

With my most recent and will be our last talk with my exBPDgf I got raged on and have never heard such pure hate in someone's voice by the way even in her past rages and splitting nothing compared. I got that 1. She never loved me, 2. I'm a pathetic human being and man that she wasted a year of her life on. 3. I'm holding onto puppy love and have no idea what love is or how to love (that was my personal favorite) and I just stopped listening after that.

At that moment I realized what the situation was instead of what I thought it was and I was no longer in the matrix if you will. I have been upset, perfectly fine, and indifferent to my situation in a matter of five days. Emotional ups and downs and I honestly don't know how yo feel. My ex is with a guy names Chris now so I'm sure he is her new savior and I can do what I haven't done in a very long time and truly figure out myself and my identity. I now realize my actions that lead me to get where I was with her and my own issues that I need to work out. Moments of clarity are a beautiful thing

[seeking balance]

Struggli,

How about this... .  lets depersonalize these things a bit.  Yep, it hurts... .  absolutely.  By focusing on the horrible BPD words and actions we can get stuck.

You are here because you believe she has BPD... .  right?

BPD is a serious mental illness that has many traits outlined in the articles, lessons and such.

How about you taking control of your own emotions... .  the list you wrote out - tell us what criteria these things fall into... .  by focusing on the facts, it will help move into detaching from the actions so you can grieve the relationship.

Most of us have this list... .  you are not alone... .  we want to support you... .  look at the criteria, where do you see these actions falling?

Peace,

SB

[mnwushu89]

Couldn't agree with you more seeking balance. took me a while to understand that but it was a very awakening moment

[just me.]

Yep, it hurts... .  absolutely.  By focusing on the horrible BPD words and actions we can get stuck.

Well... .  I'm certainly no expert on this (as I am definitely still "stuck" in my own pain), but I know that I do personally find value in making very clear to myself the contradictions of the messages I received from exBPDw.  I did not feel the original poster was focusing on the "horrible BPD words" so much as he was clarifying to himself how obviously he should not take any of those more terrible things to be meaningful.

I find that useful.  At one point, I might have taken great comfort in hearing my wife tell me over and over again that I was the most amazingly person in the world and that I had saved her life.  At another point, I had to be haunted by her message to me that I was the meanest person in the world and I had ruined her life (while at the same time now adoring and loving another).  The enormity of the fall from the best moments to the worst moments is so devastating that it feels like it could break me in half in one swoop.  When I look at it all together, though, the reality of her illness comes into focus... .  and I am able to see the good moments and the bad as opposite sides of the same sad coin that is BPD.  There is no "fall" that exists in that clarity... .  only acknowledgment of what the entirety of the whole wild experience has actually been.  I am no worse a person now than the one she adored... .  and I am no better a person than the one she hated.  I'm just me.  I'm just someone who loved someone with BPD.

Does that make sense in the healing process?  Am I wrong to see healing power inherently within what the poster is doing?

[seeking balance]

Yep, it hurts... .  absolutely.  By focusing on the horrible BPD words and actions we can get stuck.

Well... .  I'm certainly no expert on this (as I am definitely still "stuck" in my own pain), but I know that I do personally find value in making very clear to myself the contradictions of the messages I received from exBPDw.  I did not feel the original poster was focusing on the "horrible BPD words" so much as he was clarifying to himself how obviously he should not take any of those more terrible things to be meaningful.

I find that useful.  At one point, I might have taken great comfort in hearing my wife tell me over and over again that I was the most amazingly person in the world and that I had saved her life.  At another point, I had to be haunted by her message to me that I was the meanest person in the world and I had ruined her life (while at the same time now adoring and loving another).  The enormity of the fall from the best moments to the worst moments is so devastating that it feels like it could break me in half in one swoop.  When I look at it all together, though, the reality of her illness comes into focus... .  and I am able to see the good moments and the bad as opposite sides of the same sad coin that is BPD.  There is no "fall" that exists in that clarity... .  only acknowledgment of what the entirety of the whole wild experience has actually been.  I am no worse a person now than the one she adored... .  and I am no better a person than the one she hated.  I'm just me.  I'm just someone who loved someone with BPD.

Does that make sense in the healing process?  Am I wrong to see healing power inherently within what the poster is doing?

You are not wrong at all... .  just looking from a different lens is all.

At 400 posts struggli is perhaps stuck... .  my response was directed specifically to him and his body of posts.

Where you are now, yes... .  the words will fire the anger keeping you away... .  this is good.  There is a point where we must turn to self exploration.  At 50 posts a new board unlocks called personal inventory... .  

Be clear, this is in no way a cookie cutter approach for each poster, this was for struggli... .  I am glad you found comfort in his words.

Peace,

SB

[gina louise]

perhaps it's just easier to see and clarify when we look at what's been said in black and white... .  no pun intended.

the fact that it's so contradictory and baffling makes it clear that we are dealing with a disordered, or at the least, immature person. That "I hate you, don't leave me!" factor.

when these puzzling declarations are taken this way-they look differently than when they are days, weeks or months apart.

So I get what struggli is doing... .  in a way.

GL

[really]

Stuggli,

I understand your post and it is a step on from simply saying but she / she said and only recounting the positive statements... .  

It helps me today to write what was said to me:

1. I want no other ever

2. It was always too much.

1. You are loving, loyal, generous and loving beyond words

2. You are a horrible person (when I mentioned that she had been sleeping with two people at once).

1. You are my Disney Prince

2. You were always my nightmare

1. I will spend the rest of my life making up for everything I put you though.

2. Never contact me again.

1.  You are part of the family

2.  It's over (2 days later)

1. No one will ever touch me ever again.   I have my future husband in me.  I want so desperately to have your babies.

2. "I love [my replacement] more than anything or anyone in the world

1. It's you and me against the world / you are the closest thing to family

2. I don't have to explain anything to you.

1. "She [what she called her engagement ring] is the most beautiful thing in the world and everyone (her friends at work) loves it".

2.  I wish you had never bought it

1. I need you / it might be selfish but I need you to be here for me through this (when dealing with her ex)

2. I didn't ask you to stay.

1. Lets move to [my home country] and buy a house with a pool

2.

1. I just panicked (after dumping me), I love you.   I want us to work [while throwing herself at me in a bar]

2. I thought I had made it clear not to contact me (24 hours later)

Trying not to cling to the words but reconciling the positives against the negatives tells me just how ill she was/is.

Understand SB's comments though... .  for me it was a tiny step forward this morning and a massive one back this afternoon

[struggli]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

I don't think I was focusing on the pain of the contradictions, but today, while I was working and my mind was wandering, I remembered the things she'd say that would melt my heart.   My mind would then quickly jump to the near opposite things she would say at other times.  It helped me see in a somewhat more rational way the crazymaking and contradictions and instability... .  

This relationship has made me crazy.  It's made me question everything that I once thought was "solid" and didn't need to be questioned.

I think since I've seen a 2nd therapist -- one who right off the bat said "She's absolutely bonkers.  Her emotional sickness has brushed against your mental health.  I can tell you are smart, caring and capable of a normal relationship" -- I feel a little more sane.  I needed someone to tell me I wasn't crazy for being messed up over all these things.  I'll assume he's not lying.

I feel like I am emerging from this hole.  I'm not stuck, but it's taking me a while to get out.

Sometimes it's hard for me to recognize how unstable the relationship was because it's so muddled.  When I can extract specific examples that sharply contrast one another it helps my brain acknowledge the inconsistencies.  I think those of you who have been following my posts see the crazy/instability more easily than I do.

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts and your own "things your BPD lover said". 

Oh... .  and I got about 5 or 6 more texts after my original post -- all of the same nature.  They were all images relating to a mutual interest.  This is the same thing she did 2 months ago, only this time she actually said something directed at me at the very end with a "" thrown in.

I told my friend about it.  He said "Her supply of attention must've run out for the moment."  As much as I wish that weren't the truth, I think it is.

[mnwushu89]

  When I look at it all together, though, the reality of her illness comes into focus... .  and I am able to see the good moments and the bad as opposite sides of the same sad coin that is BPD.  There is no "fall" that exists in that clarity... .  only acknowledgment of what the entirety of the whole wild experience has actually been.  I am no worse a person now than the one she adored... .  and I am no better a person than the one she hated.  I'm just me.  I'm just someone who loved someone with BPD.


I came to that realization too. Specifically during the last conversation her and I had. I couldn't describe what o meant but I know your words is what I felt and feel. I have been sad, upset, ok, and indifferent to all that has transpired this week with me and my most recent experience with her. But I see it for what it is now not what I wanted it to be or wished it was.

I know I'm still hurt but trying to depersonalize everything and resort to logic is great and my brain gets it. I think my heart and emotions are just trying to catch up. I am seeking out therapy to try and make sense of it all and have myself centered with mind, body, and spirit again. Had a session today my first one actually but I know the guy isn't the right fit. He didn't know what BPD was o t knew very little. It helped to talk but I feel for what I need for me I need someone. More experienced or familiar with BPD. Thank you all for this post it helped me put more into perspective.

[really]

my brain gets it. I think my heart and emotions are just trying to catch up.

I'm starting to wonder if my heart and emotions are anywhere near the start line... .  my brain is so far down the track now... .  c'mon heart.   Catch up.

[FindingMe2011]

all the things she said

JMHO, It seems to me, that you are trying to tip toe, through your pain, and think your way through the rest.

Hmm, i would have to agree with SB. To be 400 posts into it, and not be able to put this subject matter, into its proper place, seems a little off. Im thinking I read the 10 beliefs that get us stuck, a zillion times. Why is it we dont want to believe them. Because we are lying to ourselves in some form or fashion, avoiding the inevitable. Seeing what we want to see.

I don't think I was focusing on the pain of the contradictions

maybe you should

It helped me see in a somewhat more rational way the crazymaking and contradictions and instability...

Thinking... .  So with all the articles, posts, replys. Im wondering what you have actually learned, and understood. This is not the same as reading this material. Being able to see yourself in all this, like you never had before, and allowing the emotions to pour out. Maybe its denial, you are stuck in.

This relationship has made me crazy.

This seems to be putting you in the blame stance. To not take responsibility... .  These r/s' not only put our very best out there, but also our very worst, and this is what you are seeing, or not seeing, but where you are. What you are experiencing shows you have some unresolved core trauma, just as your ex.

It's made me question everything that I once thought was "solid" and didn't need to be questioned.

And rightfully so. So what does this say to you, about yourself? I, just as many have said the same thing, if not all. It showed me, that I have to rethink, and relearn many things I thought were "solid". The more I did this, the more it showed me I had plenty of faulty thinking, and still much to learn, it scared the hell out of me... .  This has also given me a possible subject for PI board. With our narrow views we come here with(narcissistic trait), could the bottom dropping out, be an extinction burst of sorts?

I think since I've seen a 2nd therapist -- one who right off the bat said "She's absolutely bonkers.  Her emotional sickness has brushed against your mental health.  I can tell you are smart, caring and capable of a normal relationship" -- I feel a little more sane.  I needed someone to tell me I wasn't crazy for being messed up over all these things.  I'll assume he's not lying.

These are all things you have already read and heard, many times. Yet you need to hear it one more time... .  So then whats next... .  your doubting this again, why?... .  This is the meaning of stuck. When will you start believing, or do you not trust anyone, do you trust yourself?

I feel like I am emerging from this hole.

This is good, but dont be freaked out when you fall back in. Processing the r/s,I did this a couple of times, and when I finally got sick and tired of processing this (because I didnt want to look at myself, in a vulnerable, truthful way), and finally made it to me, it happened a few more times. I learned to swim in my negative emotions, I had no choice ( i guess i did, but choose the healthy way for the first time), but I soon realized the more I did it, the depths became more shallow, and not so dark. I referred to it as "the rabbit hole", not so different.

Sometimes it's hard for me to recognize how unstable the relationship was because it's so muddled

Since you wrote this, it makes sense to you? This is what I see. Sometimes its hard for me to recognize how unstable the r/s was because, I guess Im not ready yet... .  Take a leap of faith, the rewards, could be more than, you could have ever imagined, it was for me, and many others.

I think those of you who have been following my posts see the crazy/instability more easily than I do.

Oh... .  and I got about 5 or 6 more texts after my original post -- all of the same nature.  They were all images relating to a mutual interest.  This is the same thing she did 2 months ago, only this time she actually said something directed at me at the very end with a "" thrown in.

I eventually told the ex, I needed some space for a while, and would let her know when I felt comfortable with contact. I told myself, when I completely detach, I will then take a look at the r/s, and decide what I want to do, if any type of r/s was even available. Her behavior from this point on, showed me plenty. If you ever decide to go NC, it will force you to look at you. No more crazy, to lose focus on. Hard at first, but then as easily, that everyone else sees things, you also will see the same. No words, to allow yourself to interpret them wrong, to hang on, what ever little bit of hope your hanging on to. Hard thing to realize, but trust yourself when you say this... .  

As much as I wish that weren't the truth, I think it is.

... .  but change the think to "know", let this sink in, and the true healing begins... .  Abandonment depression is hard, but a must, to heal in a healthy way. (provided you stay away from self harming behavior)... .  Its time to let go, what your doing is self torture, but it is your choice... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[HarmKrakow]

all the things she said

This relationship has made me crazy.

This seems to be putting you in the blame stance. To not take responsibility... .  These r/s' not only put our very best out there, but also our very worst, and this is what you are seeing, or not seeing, but where you are. What you are experiencing shows you have some unresolved core trauma, just as your ex.

It's made me question everything that I once thought was "solid" and didn't need to be questioned.

And rightfully so. So what does this say to you, about yourself? I, just as many have said the same thing, if not all. It showed me, that I have to rethink, and relearn many things I thought were "solid". The more I did this, the more it showed me I had plenty of faulty thinking, and still much to learn, it scared the hell out of me... .  This has also given me a possible subject for PI board. With our narrow views we come here with(narcissistic trait), could the bottom dropping out, be an extinction burst of sorts?

Isn't that a bit harsh?

Everyone in a relationship with a BPD thinks they had a solid thing going, however this is on the basis of the mirror our gf/bf is showing us, brushing our ego. Is it strange or even awkard that we don't see a red flag there? I don't think so. It's not faulty thinking per se. We led ourselves to believe in something which wasn't true. But it would be awkward if you would spot that straight from the beginning no? Isn't that the whole reason why so many people get destroyed by BPD relationships?

You don't have to change your thinking, you just have to be more careful for typical red flags in a relationship.

[johnnyonthespot]

1) You are, and will always be, the love of my life.

     I can't believe I fell in love with a monster.

2) You make me want to be a mom.

     Your children are ugly.

3) The best sex in my life I've had with you.

     You're a pervert ; a deviant.

4) You are a remarkable person. I don't deserve you.

     I wish I'd never met you. You're a loser.

5) I love you.

     I hate you.

[myself]

It's like that Beatles song 'Hello Goodbye'. The BPDeatles version.

[FindingMe2011]

Isn't that a bit harsh?

Everyone in a relationship with a BPD thinks they had a solid thing going, however this is on the basis of the mirror our gf/bf is showing us, brushing our ego. Is it strange or even awkward that we don't see a red flag there? I don't think so. It's not faulty thinking per se. We led ourselves to believe in something which wasn't true. But it would be awkward if you would spot that straight from the beginning no? Isn't that the whole reason why so many people get destroyed by BPD relationships?

You don't have to change your thinking, you just have to be more careful for typical red flags in a relationship.

Well, if its harsh, than Im also harsh on myself, and thank others for being harsh with me. I dont believe this, and see this as being direct... .  It can also be said " Everyone seeks out/ gravitates towards others, on or close to their own maturity level". So is it really a coincidence/bad luck, we choose these type r/s'?... .  Why is it we choose to remain in a r/s, we know is toxic? Do we view it as toxic? Why?... .  If one makes a healthier attachment, and detachment from their primary caretaker, or takes the time to understand themselves, the word "thinks" becomes "knows". There is no need to have another "brush their ego", because they know whom they are. An end to a r/s, does not "destroy" them. "Red flags" are neon signs... .  For many here, this r/s has them looking at past r/s', and they see somewhat of a pattern, and can relate this to their family of origin. (FOO) Just as finding this site, once again the pieces to the puzzle come together, the origin of their pain, and they see/understand/believe this r/s, just pulled off the bandaids, not the origin... .  If its just learning to see red flags, then good for you... .  Here is a little food for thought. Ive read some of your past post, and feel your pain, I have been there. How would you explain your ability to feel this type of pain? Did this person teach you this ?, or is it possible you have felt this before?... .  I also came to this site using terms as "non" (there is no such thing), "them", "us", its part of the process, but this leads us away from healthy healing, if we allow it... .  The use of BPD, when describing "them", is widespread. The use of codependency when describing "us", is also used. The full medical term is actually Codependency Personality Disorder (CPD)... .  Its been said, becoming mentally healthier, is like pealing an onion. Layer by layer, slow and methodical, only absorbing what we can on a conscious level, so as not to go over the ledge. The body (subconscious) protecting the mind (conscious). Understanding how we process thoughts (the subconscious is way ahead of the conscious) and then how the results, are behaviors, helps put things in perspective, when understanding "us, and "them"... .  I wish you well, PEACE    

[mitchell16]

I cant resist becasue when I started reading this post it brought back some many of my own BPDGF contridictions.

1. I love how you always want me sexualy.

    that all you want from me is sex.

2. I never want to be with out you.

    I cant be with you.

3.  You always help me.

     You dont do anything for me.

4... Dont tell me what to do

     you need to make our decisons your the man

5   I love you more than anything

     I dont love you enough.

6.  lets get married

     I just cant get married.

7.  I dont want you to buy me a ring

     I cant believe you didnt buy me a ring.

[MaybeSo]

Many discover they have held very immature beliefs (thoughts) about romantic relationship and intimacy that made us susceptible to participation in a r/s with another emotionally immature person. Read your list of contradictory messages: I have burried in hundreds of posts my own past list of contradictory messages from my ex. Over time I began to examin the Positive parts of the list; such as " you are the love of my life" or "I've never felt so happy before and it's all because of you"... .  , you know, those positive things that we didn't question until the rug got pulled out again and again. Well, turns out that list corresponds with a lot of emotionally immature and grandiose beliefs about love and relationships, but I not only fell for it, I became addicted and felt entitled to it and  in it's absense I responded with what I have learned since is narcisstic rage and/abandonment depression when those things were witheld or taken away. Idealization should be questioned. i think on a core level I always knew that, but the drug was so compelling for me I went with it anyway. And I was dealing with old FOO stuff, just didn't see it at the time.  I'm not

being hard on myself, I'm just being honest with myself about the two emotionally immature

persons that were present in that past relationship.  The idealization we become addicted to

is not healthy; a more grounded, mature person would not have attached to that in that

way. This was a painful lesson for me but all growth is painful. The grandiosity is so

over the top in these r/s that it's a sure bet you are going to see it's opposite fall from the

pedestal.   Accepting this new way of understanding myself is different than just being aware of the red flags that hint at someone elses immaturity, this is getting real about why the key fit that particular lock so perfectly.

[WhisperingGoose]

A little budhist nugget that I remember every time I make a decision is, "take the middle path".  Toward the end I learned to take the middle path when interpreting black/white contradictory statements.  Weird that's my way and yet I fell for a pwBPD who can't even put her cars temperature dial in the middle.  I'm putting that on my  list for next time.

[struggli]

As far as having 400 posts, I'm sorry I'm not getting it quickly enough.  I am undoubtedly in denial.  I have read the 10 beliefs many times.  No, I don't trust myself.  I don't trust that I have told the story properly.  I don't trust that other people perceive it properly.   So, sometimes, even when many people tell me how f--ked it all was, I still don't think they are getting it.  Part of me wants them to tell me it was toxic so I can move on.  But I simply cannot fully convince myself of it, no matter how I try. 

Yes, maybe I'm tiptoeing around the pain.  I've tried to be as proactive as possible in this breakup so as to minimize the pain.  After all, we've split about 5 or 6 times.  The first two were terrible for me, even though I've been through breakups with other women, these two felt like "first" BUs.  I don't know if I am numb or avoiding or conditioned or what, but I haven't been able to cry -- only experience frustration and confusion and self-doubt. 

She's always come back, so I've been led to believe she will again.  I keep telling myself, though, even if she did, it'd be the same old stuff.  But is the same old stuff just a result of my impatience/intolerance for certain behaviors?  Is she the one being patient with me?

I think her recent text messages have messed me up as well.  Even though it's been a few days since I got them I'm still wondering what the motivation/emotion involved was.  I want to believe it's because she cares about me.  But it's content is also so diluted that it probably shouldn't mean much anyway.  Unless it's because she's using a timid roundabout approach where she doesn't really say what's on her mind. 

Again, even if she came back, the same things would probably happen unless she's undergone some major realizations in the past 6 months.

It's just a dull pain.  I haven't been able to get the acute.

I feel like someone dumped me off in the middle of nowhere and I don't know if they are coming back.  They didn't really say.  So, eventually, I will give up hope.  But it hasn't happened yet.  Yeah, I'm walking to try to find civilization, but still looking for my ride who ambiguously abandoned me.

Yeah, I'm stuck.  I don't see the way out unless the topic just wears me down to apathy.