New here, my journey.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have finally filed, coming up on our 20th anniversary in June. 20 years, 3 daughters (19,17,11), 3 reconciliations later I am pulling the plug on this nightmare.

Me: 45, Former Marine, Engineer, loving and hardworking Dad, dangerously "people-pleasing" and generally shriveled down to the core, smoking two packs a day

Her: dBPDw, high school dropout, emancipated from her parents at 17, on our first date gave me a very personal poem she had written years earlier, gave me all of her body on the first date too, told me on this date "her greatest fear is to be like her mother."

Holy smokes, a recipe for disaster that I ate up like a medium rare porterhouse with a stick of butter melting on top. Her first exit was 1998, I get home from work and enter an empty home, she has left to go back home to Mississippi (we lived in Pittsburgh). I call her friend to find out whats going on and am informed that she was having an affair with a bartender at the place she was working, I also discover a letter written by him to her, hes crushed because shes leaving him! I call her and confront her with the evidence and she flatly states "I dont feel like I have done anything wrong." W.T.F, a buddy of mine then later confesses that last year while she was visiting home and they were "partying", she stayed at his house and he walked in on her with another man on his couch, she was pregnant at the time.

Ok, pretty clear shes nuts, I am devastated. I file a custody order to have my children returned, and she drives them back to PA, I move into my sisters house, court orders a 50/50 split on custody but neither person files for D. She eventually charms, I cave and we reconcile, buy a new house and start over, having another child in the process. She convinces me that in order to be happy we need to be in MS, I put my very vertical career on a horizontal trajectory and we move to Biloxi, MS. Katrina soon strikes, then far worse, she is an alcoholic but she starts to abuse prescription pills, mainly xanax. She stops coming home at night, is always completely wasted and has now on her 4th job. I find out about another affair and press for MC. Counselor works with us for about 6 months, jointly and individually. He throws out terms like BPD, HPD and she bails. While away on business she packs up the girls again and moves into an apartment and tells me she no longer loves me. I file for custody again, 50/50 but this time she is having men on the reg at her place, one actually touches my daughter and I file for full custody. During that time waiting for trial, her addictions are even more out of control and her family gets her into a rehab. I finally have my kids, and myself safe and as soon as I m ready to file, and move back to PA I get the guilt charm, the suicide talk etc from rehab.

I dont know what to tell you, I caved again, and after stating all the things required to make another go at it, she agrees and we reconcile after she gets out. We attend regular MC again, she admits to multiple affairs, 3 abortions during the marriage, being raped as a young child, etc. After a rocky start, things actually start to normalize again, not so much love bombing but affirmation that she always loved me, couldnt live without me etc. We have 8 or so years of what seems to be normality, then just recently she gets fired from her newest job as a marina manager for spending too much time at the bar on premises. Her drinking is out of control once again, she begins to see her own counselor who has triangulated with her to convince her of her latest epiphany, "I want to be independent and find myself". My two oldest daughters will be testifying against her i court so that I can get full custody of my 12 year old. There is also another affair, what appears to be an emotional one, but she calls it a "work affair".

She now has completely disassociated and blames me for the entire mess, that I am abusive, controlling, vindictive and poison the kids against her. I am still struggling with the fog again, but at least I have a bit of a head start and have already informed my lawyer of the inevitable DV claims, etc. She has since moved into a leased apartment, my daughters have visited her and come back explaining that all she does is cries, even asking them if they see me cry at all.  I really just dont think I would go through with it, the divorce the NC, the whole nine and I think it has her severely triggered.  Temp court hearing is next Tuesday and all 3 kids have signed notarized election forms stating they want to live in the home with me.  Its just so weird for my kids to visit her, feel sorry for her and at the same time will be testifying on my behalf, I ache for what they are going through.  

Its really hard to place all the insanity of the last 20 years into a post, and there are thousands of little crazy things left out, and several more giant crazy things. Just needed to get some of it out to people who understand, because its not a story I am very proud of sharing.  

[Makersmarksman]

I have finally filed, coming up on our 20th anniversary in June. 20 years, 3 daughters (19,17,11), 3 reconciliations later I am pulling the plug on this nightmare.

Me: 45, Former Marine, Engineer, loving and hardworking Dad, dangerously "people-pleasing" and generally shriveled down to the core, smoking two packs a day

Her: dBPDw, high school dropout, emancipated from her parents at 17, on our first date gave me a very personal poem she had written years earlier, gave me all of her body on the first date too, told me on this date "her greatest fear is to be like her mother."

Holy smokes, a recipe for disaster that I ate up like a medium rare porterhouse with a stick of butter melting on top. Her first exit was 1998, I get home from work and enter an empty home, she has left to go back home to Mississippi (we lived in Pittsburgh). I call her friend to find out whats going on and am informed that she was having an affair with a bartender at the place she was working, I also discover a letter written by him to her, hes crushed because shes leaving him! I call her and confront her with the evidence and she flatly states "I dont feel like I have done anything wrong." W.T.F, a buddy of mine then later confesses that last year while she was visiting home and they were "partying", she stayed at his house and he walked in on her with another man on his couch, she was pregnant at the time.

Ok, pretty clear shes nuts, I am devastated. I file a custody order to have my children returned, and she drives them back to PA, I move into my sisters house, court orders a 50/50 split on custody but neither person files for D. She eventually charms, I cave and we reconcile, buy a new house and start over, having another child in the process. She convinces me that in order to be happy we need to be in MS, I put my very vertical career on a horizontal trajectory and we move to Biloxi, MS. Katrina soon strikes, then far worse, she is an alcoholic but she starts to abuse prescription pills, mainly xanax. She stops coming home at night, is always completely wasted and has now on her 4th job. I find out about another affair and press for MC. Counselor works with us for about 6 months, jointly and individually. He throws out terms like BPD, HPD and she bails. While away on business she packs up the girls again and moves into an apartment and tells me she no longer loves me. I file for custody again, 50/50 but this time she is having men on the reg at her place, one actually touches my daughter and I file for full custody. During that time waiting for trial, her addictions are even more out of control and her family gets her into a rehab. I finally have my kids, and myself safe and as soon as I m ready to file, and move back to PA I get the guilt charm, the suicide talk etc from rehab.

I dont know what to tell you, I caved again, and after stating all the things required to make another go at it, she agrees and we reconcile after she gets out. We attend regular MC again, she admits to multiple affairs, 3 abortions during the marriage, being raped as a young child, etc. After a rocky start, things actually start to normalize again, not so much love bombing but affirmation that she always loved me, couldnt live without me etc. We have 8 or so years of what seems to be normality, then just recently she gets fired from her newest job as a marina manager for spending too much time at the bar on premises. Her drinking is out of control once again, she begins to see her own counselor who has triangulated with her to convince her of her latest epiphany, "I want to be independent and find myself". My two oldest daughters will be testifying against her i court so that I can get full custody of my 12 year old. There is also another affair, what appears to be an emotional one, but she calls it a "work affair".

She now has completely disassociated and blames me for the entire mess, that I am abusive, controlling, vindictive and poison the kids against her. I am still struggling with the fog again, but at least I have a bit of a head start and have already informed my lawyer of the inevitable DV claims, etc. She has since moved into a leased apartment, my daughters have visited her and come back explaining that all she does is cries, even asking them if they see me cry at all.  I really just dont think I would go through with it, the divorce the NC, the whole nine and I think it has her severely triggered.  Temp court hearing is next Tuesday and all 3 kids have signed notarized election forms stating they want to live in the home with me.  Its just so weird for my kids to visit her, feel sorry for her and at the same time will be testifying on my behalf, I ache for what they are going through.  

Its really hard to place all the insanity of the last 20 years into a post, and there are thousands of little crazy things left out, and several more giant crazy things. Just needed to get some of it out to people who understand, because its not a story I am very proud of sharing.  

[livednlearned]

Hi Makermarksman,

Glad you found the site, and sorry for what brings you here. These are not easy marriages, and the same is true for the divorces. It is particularly painful to read how many times you've had to go through this.

Many people here have experienced the same kind of insanity (including the recycles) that you shared with us, so you're among your kind here. Has she made any false DV allegations against you before? Let's hope she doesn't pull that card. If you are at all concerned, it may be a good idea to get a voice recorder or two and have them handy. Keep receipts and file them by day in case you have to prove your whereabouts, if it comes to that 

One thing I noticed with BPD in my own situation is that he often tipped his hand, making it somewhat easy to tell what he planned to do or say. That makes me wonder if your wife is more likely to claim you've poisoned the kids against her (parental alienation). Might be a good conversation to have with your L if you think there is cause for concern there. PA is very hard to prove, even when a BPD parent is genuinely engaging in PA themselves. Even so, going for full custody (and getting it) seems quite difficult in most states so having a good strategy is important, as I'm sure you know.

When your wife shared custody, did she hold up her share of the 50/50? Or did the kids sort of end up most of the time with you?

Have you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy? A very good book for what you're going through.

[Makersmarksman]

Hi Makermarksman,

Glad you found the site, and sorry for what brings you here. These are not easy marriages, and the same is true for the divorces. It is particularly painful to read how many times you've had to go through this.

Many people here have experienced the same kind of insanity (including the recycles) that you shared with us, so you're among your kind here. Has she made any false DV allegations against you before? Let's hope she doesn't pull that card. If you are at all concerned, it may be a good idea to get a voice recorder or two and have them handy. Keep receipts and file them by day in case you have to prove your whereabouts, if it comes to that 

One thing I noticed with BPD in my own situation is that he often tipped his hand, making it somewhat easy to tell what he planned to do or say. That makes me wonder if your wife is more likely to claim you've poisoned the kids against her (parental alienation). Might be a good conversation to have with your L if you think there is cause for concern there. PA is very hard to prove, even when a BPD parent is genuinely engaging in PA themselves. Even so, going for full custody (and getting it) seems quite difficult in most states so having a good strategy is important, as I'm sure you know.

When your wife shared custody, did she hold up her share of the 50/50? Or did the kids sort of end up most of the time with you?

Have you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy? A very good book for what you're going through.

Her counterclaim is filed under the grounds of Habitual Cruel and Inhumane Treatment, same thing she did back in '08.  She called the police a few months back, in front of the kids, they were flabbergasted at her.  The police came, and she was drunk and asked me if I wanted to press charges (she had thrown a whiskey glass and shattered on my head).  I refused, didnt want the kids to watch their mother get arrested in front of them.  I can imagine in court there is going to similar tactics, I have a L who actually gained custody of his own two daughters, and is a strong father's rights advocate, I feel good about him.

In '08 the temp hearing settled on 50/50 custody, within the month she was bringing men overnight with my kids there and everything mentioned before escalated pretty quickly.  Within 6 months she was in rehab and I had full custody, and a free ticket home (I was even renting a home month to month!).  My mistake there taking her back, but I did.

I have read splitting twice, I know what I am up against, however the difference here is a far more established pattern of this behavior i  her, the election forms the kids have signed, a better lawyer.  I do have some confidence, and her recent actions before she left (coming in at 2am every night), moving out of the home kind of tell me she is throwing in the towel anyway.  We will see though, definitely not underestimating her, and have zero trust in her.

My two oldest are very fearful of a charm from her, they are protective of me now which I appreciate but I have to hold them back from getting in the middle. 

[Makersmarksman]

Hi Makermarksman,

Glad you found the site, and sorry for what brings you here. These are not easy marriages, and the same is true for the divorces. It is particularly painful to read how many times you've had to go through this.

Many people here have experienced the same kind of insanity (including the recycles) that you shared with us, so you're among your kind here. Has she made any false DV allegations against you before? Let's hope she doesn't pull that card. If you are at all concerned, it may be a good idea to get a voice recorder or two and have them handy. Keep receipts and file them by day in case you have to prove your whereabouts, if it comes to that 

One thing I noticed with BPD in my own situation is that he often tipped his hand, making it somewhat easy to tell what he planned to do or say. That makes me wonder if your wife is more likely to claim you've poisoned the kids against her (parental alienation). Might be a good conversation to have with your L if you think there is cause for concern there. PA is very hard to prove, even when a BPD parent is genuinely engaging in PA themselves. Even so, going for full custody (and getting it) seems quite difficult in most states so having a good strategy is important, as I'm sure you know.

When your wife shared custody, did she hold up her share of the 50/50? Or did the kids sort of end up most of the time with you?

Have you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy? A very good book for what you're going through.

Her counterclaim is filed under the grounds of Habitual Cruel and Inhumane Treatment, same thing she did back in '08.  She called the police a few months back, in front of the kids, they were flabbergasted at her.  The police came, and she was drunk and asked me if I wanted to press charges (she had thrown a whiskey glass and shattered on my head).  I refused, didnt want the kids to watch their mother get arrested in front of them.  I can imagine in court there is going to similar tactics, I have a L who actually gained custody of his own two daughters, and is a strong father's rights advocate, I feel good about him.

In '08 the temp hearing settled on 50/50 custody, within the month she was bringing men overnight with my kids there and everything mentioned before escalated pretty quickly.  Within 6 months she was in rehab and I had full custody, and a free ticket home (I was even renting a home month to month!).  My mistake there taking her back, but I did.

I have read splitting twice, I know what I am up against, however the difference here is a far more established pattern of this behavior i  her, the election forms the kids have signed, a better lawyer.  I do have some confidence, and her recent actions before she left (coming in at 2am every night), moving out of the home kind of tell me she is throwing in the towel anyway.  We will see though, definitely not underestimating her, and have zero trust in her.

My two oldest are very fearful of a charm from her, they are protective of me now which I appreciate but I have to hold them back from getting in the middle. 

Didnt mean "charm" there, autocorrect can be downright ridiculous!  They are fearful of a another charm, they dont think I am far enough along to withstand it, and with my history its tough to convince them otherwise.

[livednlearned]

They are fearful of a another charm, they dont think I am far enough along to withstand it, and with my history its tough to convince them otherwise.

I understand. Both the challenge of resisting the desire to rescue/fix/save. And also the fear your daughters have that you will backslide.

Many of us here share the compulsion to fix, rescue, save. The only thing that used to hurt me more was seeing someone else hurting, even if they were abusive to me. If I could tolerate the abuse, then I must be strong, and therefore worthy.

I left my ex in 2010. It came down to choosing my son over his father. In trying to raise my son to be emotionally resilient, one thing I learned is that when I rescue him from sadness, I deny him the opportunity to learn how to self soothe and feel good about his own resilience. I've had to learn to validate how he feels and gently put the responsibility for his feelings back on him. It make me realize that my own discomfort with experiencing negative feelings meant I assumed he too should not experience negative feelings.

Learning how to communicate support while also having boundaries has been a game changer in terms of the rescue/fix/save compulsion. I don't want my son to have the same tendencies I have had.

Your wife has not experienced rock bottom, therefore she has not experienced the point of no return, which is when many people decide enough is enough and it's time to change, genuinely change.

Sometimes the most compassionate thing we can do is to let them experience the consequences of their actions. By saving them, we interfere with the challenges and benefits of being responsible for ourselves, our feelings, our actions. Part of the disorder, in my view, is that they have never learned to self soothe and process grief. Every time something bad happens, it's another archive for the library of injustices and beefs they experience. They never learn how to properly process that grief and soothe themselves, it's always someone else's fault and therefore someone else must also make it better.

Your girls are sending you a strong message, probably the strongest message they could send short of leaving. They are willing to testify against their own mother in order to protect their younger sibling, and to protect you. No doubt they are broken hearted about their mom, they may be even more broken hearted if you return to their mom after they have offered the kind of sacrifice they are willing to make.

I wish you strength, my friend. These are not easy divorces by any stretch of the imagination.

[Makersmarksman]

They are fearful of a another charm, they dont think I am far enough along to withstand it, and with my history its tough to convince them otherwise.

I understand. Both the challenge of resisting the desire to rescue/fix/save. And also the fear your daughters have that you will backslide.

Many of us here share the compulsion to fix, rescue, save. The only thing that used to hurt me more was seeing someone else hurting, even if they were abusive to me. If I could tolerate the abuse, then I must be strong, and therefore worthy.

I left my ex in 2010. It came down to choosing my son over his father. In trying to raise my son to be emotionally resilient, one thing I learned is that when I rescue him from sadness, I deny him the opportunity to learn how to self soothe and feel good about his own resilience. I've had to learn to validate how he feels and gently put the responsibility for his feelings back on him. It make me realize that my own discomfort with experiencing negative feelings meant I assumed he too should not experience negative feelings.

Learning how to communicate support while also having boundaries has been a game changer in terms of the rescue/fix/save compulsion. I don't want my son to have the same tendencies I have had.

Your wife has not experienced rock bottom, therefore she has not experienced the point of no return, which is when many people decide enough is enough and it's time to change, genuinely change.

Sometimes the most compassionate thing we can do is to let them experience the consequences of their actions. By saving them, we interfere with the challenges and benefits of being responsible for ourselves, our feelings, our actions. Part of the disorder, in my view, is that they have never learned to self soothe and process grief. Every time something bad happens, it's another archive for the library of injustices and beefs they experience. They never learn how to properly process that grief and soothe themselves, it's always someone else's fault and therefore someone else must also make it better.

Your girls are sending you a strong message, probably the strongest message they could send short of leaving. They are willing to testify against their own mother in order to protect their younger sibling, and to protect you. No doubt they are broken hearted about their mom, they may be even more broken hearted if you return to their mom after they have offered the kind of sacrifice they are willing to make.

I wish you strength, my friend. These are not easy divorces by any stretch of the imagination.

I have had this boundaries talk with my girls.  I felt like before I met my wife I had pretty clear and normal boundaries,  but as time moved on and those boundaries were completely and repeatedly obliterated,  I ended up with one giant boundary,  "if you cheat again I am done." What in fact I had communicated was you can abuse me, lie to me,  abuse the kids,  thrown things at me and hit me,  rage and blame me for everything etc.  I thought I was giving her space in a way,  freedom to live within this giant  boundary and the sick thing was even that boundary was repeatedly violated.  I totally lost myself in this mess, always feeling between a rock and a hard place,  always every day giving more and more of myself up for good.  Ugh,  I felt so stupid and to an extent still do, it's like I created a prison for myself.

[livednlearned]

I completely understand! My boundary was always: If you hit me, I leave. Meanwhile, like you said, there was a world of other abuses, nonstop.

It's easy to think that this is the one and only reality. Especially when you're exiting that reality and can't quite see what's around the corner.

There are so many other possibilities, sometimes the hard part is allowing ourselves to believe that there is something good out there for us, and we are worthy and deserving and capable of being a part of it.

I wish we didn't have to pay such a steep price to learn such a valuable lesson. 

[Makersmarksman]

I completely understand! My boundary was always: If you hit me, I leave. Meanwhile, like you said, there was a world of other abuses, nonstop.

It's easy to think that this is the one and only reality. Especially when you're exiting that reality and can't quite see what's around the corner.

There are so many other possibilities, sometimes the hard part is allowing ourselves to believe that there is something good out there for us, and we are worthy and deserving and capable of being a part of it.

I wish we didn't have to pay such a steep price to learn such a valuable lesson. 

I can visualize a better future for my family and myself, I have a lot of work to do now though just getting through this divorce.  I can tell you though, I hear stories of people that got out of long abusive relationships and are so happy to be with a normal partner, and they have never been happier.  I do have that in the back of my mind, cant wait.

[ForeverDad]

Even once you get to a final decree, give yourself time to recover from it all.  Recovery is a process, not an event.

For example, if you're tempted to detail your failed marriage (venting or obsessing) to a prospective interest, it's likely too soon to start a relationship.  A new relationship should be about the two people talking together, not overmuch about others or the past.  Sure, you can mention the kids and the past but don't focus on the conflict and crazy at first, you'll get to it eventually.  Everything in its place and priority.

[Makersmarksman]

Even once you get to a final decree, give yourself time to recover from it all.  Recovery is a process, not an event.

For example, if you're tempted to detail your failed marriage (venting or obsessing) to a prospective interest, it's likely too soon to start a relationship.  A new relationship should be about the two people talking together, not overmuch about others or the past.  Sure, you can mention the kids and the past but don't focus on the conflict and crazy at first, you'll get to it eventually.  Everything in its place and priority.

Absolutely,  I really don't have the time or energy to devote to anything other than my girls,  work,  and this divorce.  I know that's well down the line for me,  it's just one of those "gifts" I keep hearing about,  a relationship with a normal person and it it is something I think I am looking forward to. I am 45, but feel much younger,  still active and so forth,  but I am not going to be alone forever,  I do know that.

[Makersmarksman]

Temporary hearing this morning,  wish me luck!

[livednlearned]

Good luck, Makersmarksman!

Let us know how it goes.

Before my hearing, I went into the bathroom and did a power pose in the stall at the recommendation of my coworker, who is a JD. I don't know if the power pose helped (see this talk about how your body language shapes who you are), but I felt so silly standing there like wonder woman it made me laugh and that helped relax me a little  

Desperate times call for desperate measures  

[Makersmarksman]

Good luck, Makersmarksman!

Let us know how it goes.

Before my hearing, I went into the bathroom and did a power pose in the stall at the recommendation of my coworker, who is a JD. I don't know if the power pose helped (see this talk about how your body language shapes who you are), but I felt so silly standing there like wonder woman it made me laugh and that helped relax me a little  

Desperate times call for desperate measures  

Well, I didnt need a power pose.  Didnt need much of anything at all, no litigation and an agreement was made between attorneys. I won custody of my daughters, agreed to emancipate my two oldest so that my stbBPDexw has to pay child support only for my 12 yr old daughter. Her lawyer explained to me, "your wife is very sick." No alimony and I can move out of state as soon as I sell my house.  I saw my stbBPDexw in the hallway a few times, she was distraught.  I am not proud of what happened today but I cant tell you what a 20 year odyssey it has been after 3 times on court prior to be here today with this outcome. I am relieved, and numb.

[livednlearned]

I am relieved, and numb.

I understand. My son's father is no longer in our lives and it is hard to express to people how that feels. My L was in a celebratory mood after our final hearing when I was awarded full custody and I felt nothing. There is so much pain foregrounding the relief that it all but cancels it out. I always knew there was abuse and craziness in the world but never got over the shock of seeing it so close up and personal in my marriage.

Going forward, you may feel grateful every day for the lack of conflict and chaos and drama, yet simultaneously feel grief for your daughters and for yourself, for all that you lost as you worked so desperately hard to be an intact family. As FD has said here often, healing is a process, not an event, and is something we will probably be doing in one form or another for much of our lives, especially as we watch our kids deal with the aftermath.

The consolation is that when you touch suffering as deeply as we do, it connects you to a much richer and vivid part of humanity. I can walk among the most wounded and feel a kinship I never felt before.

We can be mended. 

[Makersmarksman]

I am relieved, and numb.

I understand. My son's father is no longer in our lives and it is hard to express to people how that feels. My L was in a celebratory mood after our final hearing when I was awarded full custody and I felt nothing. There is so much pain foregrounding the relief that it all but cancels it out. I always knew there was abuse and craziness in the world but never got over the shock of seeing it so close up and personal in my marriage.

Going forward, you may feel grateful every day for the lack of conflict and chaos and drama, yet simultaneously feel grief for your daughters and for yourself, for all that you lost as you worked so desperately hard to be an intact family. As FD has said here often, healing is a process, not an event, and is something we will probably be doing in one form or another for much of our lives, especially as we watch our kids deal with the aftermath.

The consolation is that when you touch suffering as deeply as we do, it connects you to a much richer and vivid part of humanity. I can walk among the most wounded and feel a kinship I never felt before.

We can be mended. 

It's bittersweet to be sure.

[Makersmarksman]

She fired her attorney today, who was drafting the temporary order.  So, Tuesday was all for nothing, will have to get a new temp hearing scheduled and do it all over again 

[ForeverDad]

No litigation and an agreement was made between attorneys. I won custody of my daughters, agreed to emancipate my two oldest so that my stbBPDexw has to pay child support only for my 12 yr old daughter. Her lawyer explained to me, "your wife is very sick." No alimony and I can move out of state as soon as I sell my house.  I saw my stbBPDexw in the hallway a few times, she was distraught.  I am not proud of what happened today but I cant tell you what a 20 year odyssey it has been after 3 times on court prior to be here today with this outcome. I am relieved, and numb.

She fired her attorney today, who was drafting the temporary order.  So, Tuesday was all for nothing, will have to get a new temp hearing scheduled and do it all over again 

So sorry to hear that.  Is there any way to avoid a complete do over?

We generally discourage letting the other attorney write up the settlement.  Often they will delay for months or will write up a settlement that doesn't match what was verbally stated into the court record.  (Were the terms of the settlement read into the court record so that you or your lawyer can request transcripts?)  Can your lawyer write up the settlement and have it in hand for the next time in court?

Sadly, a settlement in most cases means little or nothing until it has been signed and made a court order and time stamped as part of the court's official records.  Will this teach your lawyer to keep tighter control of the process so you're not sabotaged again?

[Makersmarksman]

No litigation and an agreement was made between attorneys. I won custody of my daughters, agreed to emancipate my two oldest so that my stbBPDexw has to pay child support only for my 12 yr old daughter. Her lawyer explained to me, "your wife is very sick." No alimony and I can move out of state as soon as I sell my house.  I saw my stbBPDexw in the hallway a few times, she was distraught.  I am not proud of what happened today but I cant tell you what a 20 year odyssey it has been after 3 times on court prior to be here today with this outcome. I am relieved, and numb.

She fired her attorney today, who was drafting the temporary order.  So, Tuesday was all for nothing, will have to get a new temp hearing scheduled and do it all over again 

So sorry to hear that.  Is there any way to avoid a complete do over?

We generally discourage letting the other attorney write up the settlement.  Often they will delay for months or will write up a settlement that doesn't match what was verbally stated into the court record.  (Were the terms of the settlement read into the court record so that you or your lawyer can request transcripts?)  Can your lawyer write up the settlement and have it in hand for the next time in court?

Sadly, a settlement in most cases means little or nothing until it has been signed and made a court order and time stamped as part of the court's official records.  Will this teach your lawyer to keep tighter control of the process so you're not sabotaged again?

While this is certainly a learning experience for me,  it should not be for my lawyer.  I really don't blame him,  we all walked away on Tuesday as if this was done,  so to speak.  I know if we do in fact have to repeat this again there will be some action taken to prevent this,  judges don't appreciate these delay actions any more than I do. I am hoping we can just that original agreement and have it in hand as you suggested and have it signed and filed on the spot next time

[ForeverDad]

and have it in hand as you suggested and have it signed and filed on the spot next time

It may end up having a couple lines stricken or some edits but just have them initialed by both parties and yes, finalized right there in court and filed.  A court decision can be appealed or objected or reconsidered but a settlement is generally solid once made a court order.

I recall one longtime member here recalling that her DH's Ex signed a settlement with a purple crayon!  Hey, it got signed and filed, that's the important thing.

[Duck_Borders]

I truly do think it's a gift.  After my uPD ex blew my life apart and moved out of country with my son, I am now much more aware of mental illness.  I've met an amazing person and we are going slowly, but we click on so many levels - most importantly sanity and kindness.  I probably wouldn't have considered her for a partner prior to my uPD ex, so in a sense it is a gift. 

Even once you get to a final decree, give yourself time to recover from it all.  Recovery is a process, not an event.

For example, if you're tempted to detail your failed marriage (venting or obsessing) to a prospective interest, it's likely too soon to start a relationship.  A new relationship should be about the two people talking together, not overmuch about others or the past.  Sure, you can mention the kids and the past but don't focus on the conflict and crazy at first, you'll get to it eventually.  Everything in its place and priority.

Absolutely,  I really don't have the time or energy to devote to anything other than my girls,  work,  and this divorce.  I know that's well down the line for me,  it's just one of those "gifts" I keep hearing about,  a relationship with a normal person and it it is something I think I am looking forward to. I am 45, but feel much younger,  still active and so forth,  but I am not going to be alone forever,  I do know that.

[Makersmarksman]

Turns out she actually didnt fire her attorney, it was just another lie. Anyway, her attorney drafted the order but left the visitation part empty, stating "my client wasnt happy with the outcome of the temp hearing and wants to modify custody, she would like the 12 year old every weekend through the summer." I had already agreed in court to every other weekend and one night for dinner.  I simply had my lawyer reply that I wish to stick to the original agreement.  Trial date is set for Sept 26.

[ForeverDad]

Court will shoot down the every weekend demand, if it gets that far.  Do not let the demand for all summer weekends intimidate you.  The reason is that alternate weekends are Standard Everywhere except maybe for emergency responders (police, firemen, medical personnel) who have to work more weekends than others.  Alternate weekends is almost universally ordered.  It gives a parent a full weekend for activities with the children and also a full weekend away from the children ("time off".

This isn't mentioned as often but some parents have mentioned the ex getting the 1st & 3rd (or 2nd & 4th) weekends and then when a month had a 5th weekend it went to one or the other.

In my case, my ex was very confrontational and the highest risk of conflict was at exchanges.  So I never opposed weekends going from Friday PM to Monday AM.  I figured exchanges to and from school would be better for me.  I believe many orders don't give away the entire weekend, having the children return to the primary parent Sunday afternoon or early evening so the children get prepared for School on Monday.

You are or are going to be the Residential Parent for School Purposes, right?  If you have majority time and a messed up conflictual Ex, then that is wise.

[Makersmarksman]

Court will shoot down the every weekend demand, if it gets that far.  Do not let the demand for all summer weekends intimidate you.  The reason is that alternate weekends are Standard Everywhere except maybe for emergency responders (police, firemen, medical personnel) who have to work more weekends than others.  Alternate weekends is almost universally ordered.  It gives a parent a full weekend for activities with the children and also a full weekend away from the children ("time off".

This isn't mentioned as often but some parents have mentioned the ex getting the 1st & 3rd (or 2nd & 4th) weekends and then when a month had a 5th weekend it went to one or the other.

Really hoping we can settle this all out of court and it doesnt go all the way to trial, I really havent presented much of my evidence anyway so far, it was her lawyer that saw she was being duped by her client and knew it was a lost cause to litigate.  It would be great to NOT have to air out all of the dirty laundry, but wife is so backed into a corner and feels like she truly has nothing to lose.

[livednlearned]

From what you've described, it sounds like you stand to get an even better arrangement than every other weekend + 1 overnight. Though I know what you've proposed is the norm when first filing.

I wouldn't be surprised if your wife took her anger out on the L after the hearing and there was a brief period of anger where it wasn't clear if L was fired or not. Feelings = facts for someone with BPD, so if she felt she fired her L, she probably felt it really happened. Until... she remembered the part about the retainer 

If she doesn't have a whole lot of money, that will be to your advantage. In fact, if she tried to fire her L and got talked out of it, then the best thing to happen (in terms of avoiding court) is to have an L explain in clear black and white terms that litigating will bring forth even worse outcomes than what you are offering.

[Makersmarksman]

From what you've described, it sounds like you stand to get an even better arrangement than every other weekend + 1 overnight. Though I know what you've proposed is the norm when first filing.

I wouldn't be surprised if your wife took her anger out on the L after the hearing and there was a brief period of anger where it wasn't clear if L was fired or not. Feelings = facts for someone with BPD, so if she felt she fired her L, she probably felt it really happened. Until... she remembered the part about the retainer  

If she doesn't have a whole lot of money, that will be to your advantage. In fact, if she tried to fire her L and got talked out of it, then the best thing to happen (in terms of avoiding court) is to have an L explain in clear black and white terms that litigating will bring forth even worse outcomes than what you are offering.

Her lawyer addressed children in a conference room shortly after we arrived, she told them a few things that really stick out, and she asked the kids that these things remain in confidence, but the kids were quick to tell me what she said as soon as we were in the hallway of the courthouse:

1. Wife's lawyer opened with , "your mother is very, very sick."

2.  She also asked them "What would it take for you to have a relationship with your mother?", kids stated they have a relationship but mom needs rehab at a minimum.

3.  Lawyer then asked them, "What would it take for our mother and father to get back together?", kids were confused and surprised with the question, but again stated mom would, at a minimum, have to go to rehab.

The lawyer then stated that she intended to address either privately, or via court order rehabilitation and asked again that this not be said to either me or their mother... .

I am thinking the L brought this up with me wife shortly after, perhaps triggering the attempted firing.  Either way, because the L addressed my daughters who are techincally 2 of my witnesses, even this testimony is now relevant if we would ridiculously take this all the way to trial.

[whirlpoollife]

When I going through the first custody hearings, with my first L , a twelve year old could decide where they want to live. Second L said the same. He also told me that, here , the every other weekend for the noncustodial parent is no longer in use.  So if your x has to have time and that's all she gets , that's good. Don't  give in to more time. As its been said here , temp orders turn into permanent orders. 

[ForeverDad]

When I going through the first custody hearings, with my first L , a twelve year old could decide where they want to live. Second L said the same.

There are issues with letting a pre-teen or even a teen decide.  In general it is best for the children not to wear the parent pants, let them be kids.  Children that have not been influenced or alienated often do better not to be in the middle having to choose one parent over the other.  However, the court, Guardian ad Litem (GAL) or evaluator may include their input to assist the adults in their adult decision-making.

[Makersmarksman]

When I going through the first custody hearings, with my first L , a twelve year old could decide where they want to live. Second L said the same.

There are issues with letting a pre-teen or even a teen decide.  In general it is best for the children not to wear the parent pants, let them be kids.  Children that have not been influenced or alienated often do better not to be in the middle having to choose one parent over the other.  However, the court, Guardian ad Litem (GAL) or evaluator may include their input to assist the adults in their adult decision-making.

I would agree with these assessments, however, once it was clear we would be divorcing, My two oldest (19,17) immediately wanted to declare that they wanted to live with me and signed election forms to state that fact.  My 12 year old did the same, wanted to do what their sisters did.  My 19 year old was the primary driver for this, I was not present for the signings (except my 12 year old). This was due to prior abuse my older girls experienced while living with their mother in a prior separation. In my state, Mississippi, the legal system is very much more old fashioned and fault plays a large role in custody proceedings.  Adultery infuences alimony, etc.

[Makersmarksman]

So I got to see the draft of the temp order her lawyer has prepared:

1.  There is a summer visitation clause on there I never talked about/agreed to

2.  The order states I have to put my house on the market!  Both L's know now that I have custody my intention is to move out of state, but why would I sell my house without a permanent order?  Thats nuts.

3.  There is a clause in there that we both cannot drink or smoke, period.  What?  Shes the one in and out of rehab, I cant have a drink in my own home? 

4.  Her child support is set to 100/mo, not a big deal as I tried to decline any CS, but 100 is definitely not 14% of her salary, its more like 7%, want to make sure I am not hurting myself legally by accepting less.

So, after lying about firing her lawyer, her L simply tosses this junk order out there for me to sign with clear issues and things I never agreed to.  If this is how ridiculous a temp order goes, I cannot wait to see whats in store up until the final trial (sept 26)!

[ForeverDad]

"So I got to see the draft of the temp order her lawyer has prepared... ." which is why your lawyer should have been the one to prepare it.

Lots to discuss with your lawyer.  Modifications are expected.  Strike out the portions that can't apply yet, for example requiring the house to be sold.

If she is to have very limited parenting time then yes, it should affect holidays, vacations and summer visitation.  How much, IDK.

Generally most orders are written to apply to both parents more or less equally.  The principle is that you can't demand more of one than the other.  Would this work?  "Parents will not smoke in the children's presence.  Parents will not consume alcohol or drugs in excess.  If either parent has issues with excessive consumption or driving while under the influence then the parent should not use drink or drugs to thereby avoid abuse of them."

As for support, many states allow the CS to be revisited every year or two for recalculation.  Find out what CS recalculations and related rules are in your state.  So while it may be low now, make sure the language doesn't state or imply it will locked in or always be below support guidelines.  For example, in my divorce I agreed to pay alimony for a few years but not CS.  My lawyer said she always would have the right to request CS so we settled on a clause that if she sought CS during the alimony period then I reserved the right to have alimony recalculated downward.  Taxwise, since she had minimal earnings, it was smarter for me to pay her alimony (her tax obligation, probably near zero) than to pay her child support (my tax obligation, probably substantial).

Keep in mind that you're getting a very favorable order early in the legal process.  That is amazing.  Court may be reluctant to "hit her hard while she is down", so to speak.  I'm not saying you shouldn't stand firm for what is in the best interests of the children, you should, but for some of the other issues that don't directly impact parenting as much, you may have to make some trade-offs.