"Not a man?"

[confusedinWI]

Were any of you told you were "not a man?" I was told this in a drunken rage at the end of our relationship by my ex gf.

It's funny because when we did see a counselor on the one occasion one of her wishes was that I stand up for myself more, whether it was to others or to her. When I did stand up to her, she didn't like it (because borderlines don't like boundaries). I found the hypocrisy to be funny now.

She had no problem asserting herself to me. Granted I admit there were times I should've stood up for myself more, but the fact that when I did she was not supportive hurts.

I still don't understand the "not a man" comment. I took care of my kids, paid my bills, took care of her, helped her out, never any complaints in the bedroom, she always liked my appearance, I dont' get what I was doing to not "be a man".

I know it's part of the devaluation, and it still irks me. Am I fully over wanting approval and validation from her, not yet. I'm a lot better than I was before I'll say that for sure.

I realize that I can not go down the rabbit hole and create issues for myself that are not there.

For example, I started to think last night, did she like the way I dressed? Did she like the way I expressed love? Did she like how I looked, kissed her, made love to her, have sex with her? These were not once brought up as issues when she broke up with me. It was something completely else.

So I told myself don't worry about now. If it wasn't an issue in the relationship, don't make it an issue out of the relationship.

But sometimes, stupidly, I find myself thinking if I ran into her in the near future, what would she think of me? Would I still be that same attractive guy she thought I was, or was that completely part of the process of being in the relationship with me?

Then I start thinking that's part of my problem. I will not be healed until I really don't care what anyone thinks of me. Not being a douchebag or anything, but just knowing who I am and being confident with it.

The funny thing is, after this woman did her best with the multiple recycles to destroy my confidence, she had the urge two days before I moved out to say "remember confused confidence is sexy." Well thanks a lot! Nothing like draining my confidence and finding my replacement before I even moved out to build up confidence.

Ugh! I hate that I still find her somewhat physically attractive. That's funny too because I've had three friends tell me they didn't think she was as attractive as I made her out to be.

I also was contemplating this when I was out walking today, my ex gf could be supportive of me for little things. Like when I had the flu and I was sleeping over at her house, she would take care of me and be really sweet. Or if I called into work one day because I wasn't feeling good she could be very sweet. But it was usually the other way around. When she had migraines I was taking care of her. When she drank too much I was the one taking care of her. During any of the big crisis she had I was there for her.

When I lost my job in late January, she was at first supportive but I find ironic now that only three weeks later is when we broke up. And she did something that she knew would force the break up. Maybe she wasn't able to take the attention not being given to her 100%. A few months prior when I knew my job was on the line and I was trying to save it I told her I was afraid that if I lost my job she would think less of me and leave. She said "you have to have faith that I will be there for you, besides if I did leave you because you lost your job is that the type of woman you want in your life?" It is almost as if she was foreshadowing future events.

The one major time I really needed her, more than when I was having battles with ex wife over child support, the one time I really needed her is when she couldn't be there for me.

I used to think we were best friends, then I realized that best friends don't treat others the way she treated me.  A best friend would not purposely break my children's hearts (kids that she said she loved). A best friend would not keep a scorecard of relationship wrongs and rights. A best friend would not verbally and emotionally abuse me, get drunk and yell at me when the kids are sleeping in the next room.

Did any of you have to deal with a lot of passive/aggressive treatment as well? She would always hide behind text messaging. She was brave when it came to saying things in text that she would not in person. Or the silent treatment when she was upset, yes how old are you 32 or 5? If I had been stronger and not so afraid of being alone, or requiring validation and approval I would have noticed these red flags earlier and not have been afraid to leave.

The other day when I was talking to my mom about the whole thing, she told me "Confused you are looking at this all wrong instead of being sad that the relationship is over, you need to be happy that you are free now"

She is right! I'm free of the walking on eggshells wondering if what I'm doing is good enough for her. I'm free of having to explain my actions at how I raise my kids, or how I spend money on them. I never raised an issue with how she spent her money. I'm free of wondering if she will get set off by something that the kids did and go into the bedroom, slam the door, and then drink to calm herself down. All the while I'm having to make up a lie to my kids as to why she is acting that way. My kids are old enough that they knew the truth.

This past weekend my daughter told me she heard me getting yelled at by my ex and she was sad that her dad was getting yelled at.

While it's tough because she is with replacement man now, and I know everything is perfect for them right now I also know how it will turn out to be. There will always be something that he does wrong, that will leave his head spinning.

Once I get a job, and can get my own place and be closer to my kids that will help. It stinks because my next apartment will be a downgrade from what I was sharing with my ex gf but at least it will be my space for me and my kids. They will be able to feel comfortable and they won't have to walk on eggshells. There were times that I will miss but I tell myself I want the whole package, I want the consistent package. I would have given up the three to four times a week sex routine to one night a week for everything else to be there. To be able to express love one wee and the next week be told I'm needy.

Sorry this was long winded but I guess I had a lot I wanted to get off my chest. My friends tell me to just move on already, but they don't understand the way I trauma bonded with her and that it was not just the normal break up. They didn't have to see their ex threaten suicide over the break up to just less than two weeks later talking to their new man. They didn't have to witness everything I went through. I know that there is no timetable for healing. I know I'm not ready to date and won't be for awhile. I have to deal with my validation and approval issues, my codependent issues before I'm ready. First and foremost I want to just enjoy having my time and space with my children.  They suffered too and they have to see that there dad is "man enough" because I stood up for them and me!

[McGahee21]

my exBPDgf actually liked abuse and thought it was attractive.  she would of course argue back, but deep down she liked the neglect, verbal abuse, and if she knew she pushed the envelope too far she probably wouldnt mind if she got the shyt beat out of her... .

when i first met her, we were dating but not officially together. long story short she blew some dude in the parking lot, and i had to walk home.  the next day she blew up my phone like 100x and begged to come back.  i cussed her out, and sadly i took her back.  we met for drinks later that night.  she literally told me it turned her on when i was cussing at her and that if i wanted to beat the shyt out of her i could... .

so yeah

BPD women for some reason will fall in love with narcissistic men.

its sad, but if you really love her, than withdraw emotionally but still hang out.  hell ditch her a few times.  anytime she acts out, you cant go back until they apologize. otherwise withdraw all contact. its the only way they will stay in love with you.  its sick actually and will damage your future relationships with other healthy women

[confusedinWI]

Hell no I'd rather be single than be back with her because I know how the cycle would end, same old story.

I want to take care of me get myself healthy so I can be with a healthy woman. A woman that won't flip out over the minor of things.

One time when I had a day off during the week she texted me that she forgot her lunch and was so hungry. Her work is twenty minutes away from where we lived. So I drove up there, stopped at a sandwich place, got her a sandwich and drove it to her work. When I called her to come out and I gave her the meal, her response was anger. She said "this is why I didn't want to initially text you because I didn't want you to feel like you had to come up and bring me lunch."

I was flabberghasted. Looking back I wish I would've just taken the sandwich and threw it away. what "normal" person would act like that? I wasn't looking for a reward. I just knew that she was hungry, I had the time to be able to do something like that, and I wanted to. I still get a little angry and hurt over that, and unfortunately their were tons of other instances like that.

[zundertowz]

One of the hardest things to go through is going from being the best man shes ever meet to her destroying my self esteem and mental health and being told im not a man at all.  I got to the point where I didnt really believe anything that came out of her mouth... .dont let her words affect you, shes basically a child who tells her parent she hates them and runs to her room.

[dobie]

One of the hardest things to go through is going from being the best man shes ever meet to her destroying my self esteem and mental health and being told im not a man at all.  I got to the point where I didnt really believe anything that came out of her mouth... .dont let her words affect you, shes basically a child who tells her parent she hates them and runs to her room.

I got told I used to hang on your every word (true) and now I don't respect you

So same thing as what the op is asking but different wording

Mine broke up with me like an angry child , showing daddy she is all grown up and independent

The parallel between her behaviours and a toddler is truly astounding

She even had the cheek to accuse me of being immature and her having "grown up"

[dobie]

BPD women for some reason will fall in love with narcissistic men.

its sad, but if you really love her, than withdraw emotionally but still hang out.  hell ditch her a few times.  anytime she acts out, you cant go back until they apologize. otherwise withdraw all contact. its the only way they will stay in love with you.  its sick actually and will damage your future relationships with other healthy women

This is true first few years I was an arrogant self absorbed NARC in a lot of ways  then she threatened to leave and I became a nicer person and grew up in a lot of ways guess what she hated it and the nicer and the more I gave the more I showed I valued her the worse she behaved

Her dad is an abusive NARC/BPD as well so makes sense

I did not realise any of this at the time

[zundertowz]

[quote author=McGahee21 link=topic=276867.msg12621017#msg12621017 date=1431537582

BPD women for some reason will fall in love with narcissistic men.

its sad, but if you really love her, than withdraw emotionally but still hang out.  hell ditch her a few times.  anytime she acts out, you cant go back until they apologize. otherwise withdraw all contact. its the only way they will stay in love with you.  its sick actually and will damage your future relationships with other healthy women

This is true first few years I was an arrogant self absorbed NARC in a lot of ways  then she threatened to leave and I became a nicer person and grew up in a lot of ways guess what she hated it and the nicer and the more I gave the more I showed I valued her the worse she behaved

Her dad is an abusive NARC/BPD as well so makes sense

I did not realise any of this at the time [/quote]
I mentioned this before that BPDs fall for 2 types of guys... .Narc men who will treat them ___ , enjoy the drama, and will wind up cheating on them... .My exes 2 relationships before me were these types of guys... .and the polar opposite guys like myself who are a little introverted and codependant... .I believe the difference in the two is what made me believe the love bombing and smearing of exes.

[dobie]

[quote author=McGahee21 link=topic=276867.msg12621017#msg12621017 date=1431537582

BPD women for some reason will fall in love with narcissistic men.

its sad, but if you really love her, than withdraw emotionally but still hang out.  hell ditch her a few times.  anytime she acts out, you cant go back until they apologize. otherwise withdraw all contact. its the only way they will stay in love with you.  its sick actually and will damage your future relationships with other healthy women

This is true first few years I was an arrogant self absorbed NARC in a lot of ways  then she threatened to leave and I became a nicer person and grew up in a lot of ways guess what she hated it and the nicer and the more I gave the more I showed I valued her the worse she behaved

Her dad is an abusive NARC/BPD as well so makes sense

I did not realise any of this at the time

I mentioned this before that BPDs fall for 2 types of guys... .Narc men who will treat them ___ , enjoy the drama, and will wind up cheating on them... .My exes 2 relationships before me were these types of guys... .and the polar opposite guys like myself who are a little introverted and codependant... .I believe the difference in the two is what made me believe the love bombing and smearing of exes.[/quote]
Well the guy before me she picked because he was a "nice guy" lower status looks wise and she wanted to feel safe after her bf before cheated on her and because "she had no one"  

She addmited to using her x for this reason and that she had no plans to stay with him or marry and did not even fancy him after two weeks in . I don't know why I didn't run a mile when I heard that ego I guess and niavete .

And even him and I knew him and he was a lot calmer than me she managed to wind up and trash him after she left him

[lawman79]

 

    My uBPDexgf told me on a number of occasions that I wasn't a real man, and launched into a tirade of how worthless I was.  She did this probably a dozen times over the course of a year when I wouldn't drop everything and come help her out with her crisis du jour.  I finally lost my temper and told her all the reasons why she was worthless, and that it was a shame that she never made good on her suicide threats.  That was over 4 months ago and I have not heard from her since, not that I reached out to her either.

   I am not proud of what I did, and I do feel guilty about it.  But you can only be pushed so far... .in some ways I think it was good that she got some of her own medicine for once.  I tried really hard to be patient, but everyone has a breaking point.  I think a lesser man would have simply knocked her teeth in... .I have two sisters and I was not raised that way.  That I am proud of.

[Madison66]

confusedinWI,

I'm sorry you are dealing with this crud!  I can totally relate from previous relationships and I think it goes back to my alcoholic Father.  He turned the use of biting sarcasm into an art form!  My uBPD/NPD ex gf definitely keyed into my weaknesses or struggles.  I know that I was much more open and direct with her early on and then I felt I couldn't win or have even ground by being completely honest.  That doesn't contribute to a healthy r/s.  The way I look at it now, and maybe this is true for you, is that my flawed actions or approach in the r/s is that I stayed in it when my gut told me the words and actions coming from her weren't right for me.  I allowed myself to get beat down and allowed myself to stay.

Again, what am I left with now and what are you left with now?  Ourselves!  Our beautifully perfectly imperfect selves.  So, I was sick of how my r/s looked and felt, and I finally dug in to figure out what I was doing.  I was choosing the wrong people to be with; I was not communicating well in the r/s; and I was not being true to myself.  I've done a lot of work with my T and not coincidentally started seeing a fabulous non PD lady who treats me with the same love and respect as I treat her.  We're not afraid to be honest and real with each other.  That's what a healthy r/s looks like.  I know I couldn't have had this with my ex gf.

I can only suggest to you to look inward for your love and acceptance first.  That will be easier to do once you dig in and work on those issues from your past that are at the root of you looking to the outside for love and acceptance.  :)on't get me wrong - I still have my struggles like when my teen daughter gets mad at me and calls me selfish and not caring for her feelings or I get beat up at work for things out of my control.  We all deal with that crap!  The most important thing is to give yourself a break and just say "I simply did the best I could and there's probably a lesson to be learned here"... .

[DyingLove]

I was told that: "your not the man I met!"

The first time she told me that, I stood there with my arms our like: "right!  I'm not the man you met, I'm like this now!"



I even told her that I'm a shadow of the man she met, I'm like this now and is it any wonder? (something like that)  She had a way of presenting things where it would be hard for me to comeback.  In the beginning I was very non-argumentative. Later on, I was very defensive because of her attacks.

[zundertowz]

    My uBPDexgf told me on a number of occasions that I wasn't a real man, and launched into a tirade of how worthless I was.  She did this probably a dozen times over the course of a year when I wouldn't drop everything and come help her out with her crisis du jour.  I finally lost my temper and told her all the reasons why she was worthless, and that it was a shame that she never made good on her suicide threats.  That was over 4 months ago and I have not heard from her since, not that I reached out to her either.

   I am not proud of what I did, and I do feel guilty about it.  But you can only be pushed so far... .in some ways I think it was good that she got some of her own medicine for once.  I tried really hard to be patient, but everyone has a breaking point.  I think a lesser man would have simply knocked her teeth in... .I have two sisters and I was not raised that way.  That I am proud of.

The end of my relationship was similiar... .I fought fire with fire and tho im not proud of it I think in the long run it is beneficial... .theres no wondering if she will contact me anytime soon I made sure of that.  Theres no wondering which is helpful.

[Madison66]

Back to the "not a man" statement - it was obviously said with the intention to hurt you.  I couldn't imagine saying to a female "your not a woman"!  A more accurate statement might be "I wasn't a good person to me" when I allowed myself to endure abuse and allow myself to stay in a r/s that didn't suit my needs.  Everything else is BS. 

Here's the actual dictionary definition of man followed by a bit more humorous Urban Dictionary take:

Man Definition

dictionary.search.yahoo.com

n. noun

    1. An adult male human.

    2. A human regardless of sex or age; a person.

    3. A human or an adult male human belonging to a specific occupation, group, nationality, or other category. Often used in combination. a milkman; a congressman; a freeman.


From Urban Dictionary:

man

A derogatory term for someone who is being unfair, stupid, idiotic, ass-like, monstrous etc... .

Man can refer to both males and females.

Ugh, he/she is such a man!

What a man!

Could he be any manlier!

[michel71]

I think they just intend to hurt you by praying on anything that you value. If you value being a good, decent man (and it appears that you do) she is going hit you hard by saying that you are not. It is absolute war for them and whereas  we nons would use, say, metaphorically, a knife for defense they immediately pull out the BAZOOKA.

Cruelty and one-upsmanship are what they are about.

[workinprogress]

When I told my wife that I wanted for "us" to do more together and have more sex she became angry and told me that I "sounded like a woman.  That's what a woman would say."

[apollotech]

"For example, I started to think last night, did she like the way I dressed? Did she like the way I expressed love? Did she like how I looked, kissed her, made love to her, have sex with her?"

confused,

Don't get caught up in her crazy. It's her's; let her keep it! She's emotionally a child, so she lashes out like one.

[confusedinWI]

"For example, I started to think last night, did she like the way I dressed? Did she like the way I expressed love? Did she like how I looked, kissed her, made love to her, have sex with her?"

confused,

Don't get caught up in her crazy. It's her's; let her keep it! She's emotionally a child, so she lashes out like one.

Having a rough night and was ruminating on this subject again. Apollo I like what you said about not getting caught up in her crazy. Plus why worry about things said from someone that abandons me at the time of my need.

I'm a man because I woudnt do that to my friends and the woman I loved. I wonder if the guy she is with now is a real man thus not actually in her eyes thinking of her but just using her for his own needs.

You reap what you sew

[apollotech]

"For example, I started to think last night, did she like the way I dressed? Did she like the way I expressed love? Did she like how I looked, kissed her, made love to her, have sex with her?"

confused,

Don't get caught up in her crazy. It's her's; let her keep it! She's emotionally a child, so she lashes out like one.

Having a rough night and was ruminating on this subject again. Apollo I like what you said about not getting caught up in her crazy. Plus why worry about things said from someone that abandons me at the time of my need.

I'm a man because I woudnt do that to my friends and the woman I loved. I wonder if the guy she is with now is a real man thus not actually in her eyes thinking of her but just using her for his own needs.

You reap what you sew

My friend, educate yourself really well regarding the BPD complex. Knowledge is power and very freeing. What she said or didn't say has nothing to do with who or what you are. She did not stay or leave based on who you are or who you aren't. The more educated you become, the more her behaviors/actions will become transparent to you. You will see that you had little control or authority over the relationship. Likewise, she didn't either. Her disorder was/is running the show. In all of this, take care of yourself; that is your responsibility.

[confusedinWI]

She left because she was seeking intimacy but getting that close triggered her abandonment fears?

[apollotech]

She left because she was seeking intimacy but getting that close triggered her abandonment fears?

Too close/intimacy triggers fear of engulfment. She may abandon due to the engulfment, but that isn't fear of abandonment at play. Her leaving in the scenario that you present is her putting distance between y'all.

[LonelyChild]

I got to the point where I didnt really believe anything that came out of her mouth

This is where I'm at. I don't believe a word she says. Not a single one. If she says she's tired, I assume she's bull___ting. If she says she loves me, that someone called, that she's doing x y or z, I assume it's just lies. Nothing she says seems to be true.

[clydegriffith]

Yes, after b/u she once said that to me and that i never stood up for myself. I calmly reminded her that "standing up for myself" would cause a violent BPD rage on her part so after a while it was best to just let everything go.

[confusedinWI]

I too got the I dont stand up for myself and when I did to her it sent her flying off the handle.  They project then rage.  Why do we grieve for them?

[zundertowz]

I too got the I dont stand up for myself and when I did to her it sent her flying off the handle.  They project then rage.  Why do we grieve for them?

It was a no win situation... .I tried being passive, I tried being aggressive nothing worked.  I finally checked out mentally cause I was so exhausted and depressed and thats when the chit hit the fan.