Blow up

[Depression = 72% of members]

This is my first post and I am at a low point and could use some support. I have been married less than a year and it has been a rocky ride, though I love my wife very much. She is from a foreign country and is trying to assimilate into the United States and learn english, so we have that as an added stressor (among others as well).  While I don't know that my wife has BPD, I believe she most likely is on the spectrum with some of the milder symptoms/thought distortions, from the little I have read so far.  She has threatened to leave several times and return to her home country over the last year and so far we have surmounted each of these episodes. However, I feel that last night something was far worse.

Yesterday I drove about 1 hour away, where I met up with my parents at their house.When I met up with my parents, they drove us, along with my daughter who was staying with my parents, another hour to a park where we met with my sister and her husband for a picnic, in their car.  When I was there I received an urgent message from my wife saying that I had left screen door, which covers the front door, locked from inside (there is no way to unlock it from the outside), so that she could not open the front door with her house key and get inside. I felt very stuck because I did not have my car, was at least 2 hours away from home, and we had just arrived all together for the picnic.

I tried calling the landlord to see if he had another garage door opener, but he did not. I then tried calling a locksmith and was on the phone with them about how they might be able to help us getting the screen door open. As I was doing this, I was fielding messages from my wife. In the end, she told me that she did not want to go through the expense of a locksmith and that she was hungry. She had the credit card and she would take her daughter out to get something to eat. Later she told me to relax, take my time, and to enjoy. She would do the same with her daughter. While she did not say, I imagined that they would see a movie, or go shopping, and get something to eat.  She asked me when I would be back, would it be as late as 8pm? I responded, no, I could be back as soon as 4-5pm.

Needless to say, I did not enjoy the picnic at all as I was worrying about my wife. I felt comforted, however, by the fact that she told me not to worry about it and to enjoy myself. Nevertheless, after an appropriate amount of time, I told my family that I felt that I needed to get back as soon as possible to get them into the house.

I communicated with my wife each step of the way. First I had to take my daughter home about 30 minutes north of my house. I communicated this to my wife and asked her to please let me know if she preferred me to stop first at our home to let them in, however, I did not think she would want this as there have been hard feelings between my wife and my daughter. She thanked me for keeping her apprised.

After I got my daughter home I messaged my wife and asked her if she wanted me to come immediately to where she was at (I imagined she might have taken an Uber to a local shopping center).  She said no, she was still finishing up with her daughter. I made it home and I messaged my wife that I was home. Shortly therafter my wife and her daughter came walking home, sweaty, and I could tell immediately that she was upset.

She went upstairs and messaged me to ask if I needed anything in the bathroom. If not, she wanted to shower, wash her hair and she would need 3-hours in the bathroom alone and did not want any interruptions. This was about 8pm. She also told me that whenever I left the house again I would need to give her not only the key, but also the garage door opener.

I apologized for my mistake of leaving the screen door locked and then went about the business of cleaning the house and going for a walk.  When she was finished in the bathroom I prepared for bed and it was clear that she was very angry. The jist of it is that she felt that if I cared for her, I would have come immediately for her. I told her I felt helpfless as I did not have my car at the park and was reliant on my parents. I also told her that I was confused because I had understood that she was OK, as she had told me to take my time and to relax. She told me that she only told me that because she did not want me to drive dangerously to get there, but of course she had wanted me to come immediately. She is here in a foreign country where she has given up everything to be here with me. If the situation was reversed, she told me she would not have left me alone like that. I told her that it was not fair to tell me one thing and then to expect another thing. She needs to communicate with me. If she had communicated her true feelings with me, I would have persisted in working to get a locksmith, or find a way to get home earlier.

Next, she asked me why I hadn't offered to come by the house first, and unlock the doors. I told her that I hadn't thought of it as I was fixated on getting home as soon as possible, and because I did not know she was so close to the house at the time. I thought she would need a ride (and there is also the conflict between my daughter and her, who was with me at the time).

She accused me of not caring for her and from there the argument got more heated and in response she basically said that she was done; she has made her decision. She asked me, what do we do to get divorced?

I really can't believe this. First, I felt her response was much stronger than warranted. Second, I cannot understand why she first told me "not to worry and to take my time," but now wants to divorce me for "not caring about her" because I did not come immediately. Finally, I need to learn to do a better job of controling how I respond to her in these moments because I often react in a way that escalates, by saying something snide, or trying to argue/reason with her. I can often be reactionary in my responses in moments of tension, which is something I am working on myself.

I guess I just feel at a low point and I need support.  I know we can only control ourselves and our own behavior.  I know I have things to learn and to work on. But this is a heck of an emotional roller coaster and I really don't understand all of what I am experiencing. I would appreciate some support and wisdom from this community. Thank you for your gracious reading of my first post.

[MonarchRtrns]

This is my first post and I am at a low point and could use some support. I have been married less than a year and it has been a rocky ride, though I love my wife very much. She is from a foreign country and is trying to assimilate into the United States and learn english, so we have that as an added stressor (among others as well).  While I don't know that my wife has BPD, I believe she most likely is on the spectrum with some of the milder symptoms/thought distortions, from the little I have read so far.  She has threatened to leave several times and return to her home country over the last year and so far we have surmounted each of these episodes. However, I feel that last night something was far worse.

Yesterday I drove about 1 hour away, where I met up with my parents at their house.When I met up with my parents, they drove us, along with my daughter who was staying with my parents, another hour to a park where we met with my sister and her husband for a picnic, in their car.  When I was there I received an urgent message from my wife saying that I had left screen door, which covers the front door, locked from inside (there is no way to unlock it from the outside), so that she could not open the front door with her house key and get inside. I felt very stuck because I did not have my car, was at least 2 hours away from home, and we had just arrived all together for the picnic.

I tried calling the landlord to see if he had another garage door opener, but he did not. I then tried calling a locksmith and was on the phone with them about how they might be able to help us getting the screen door open. As I was doing this, I was fielding messages from my wife. In the end, she told me that she did not want to go through the expense of a locksmith and that she was hungry. She had the credit card and she would take her daughter out to get something to eat. Later she told me to relax, take my time, and to enjoy. She would do the same with her daughter. While she did not say, I imagined that they would see a movie, or go shopping, and get something to eat.  She asked me when I would be back, would it be as late as 8pm? I responded, no, I could be back as soon as 4-5pm.

Needless to say, I did not enjoy the picnic at all as I was worrying about my wife. I felt comforted, however, by the fact that she told me not to worry about it and to enjoy myself. Nevertheless, after an appropriate amount of time, I told my family that I felt that I needed to get back as soon as possible to get them into the house.

I communicated with my wife each step of the way. First I had to take my daughter home about 30 minutes north of my house. I communicated this to my wife and asked her to please let me know if she preferred me to stop first at our home to let them in, however, I did not think she would want this as there have been hard feelings between my wife and my daughter. She thanked me for keeping her apprised.

After I got my daughter home I messaged my wife and asked her if she wanted me to come immediately to where she was at (I imagined she might have taken an Uber to a local shopping center).  She said no, she was still finishing up with her daughter. I made it home and I messaged my wife that I was home. Shortly therafter my wife and her daughter came walking home, sweaty, and I could tell immediately that she was upset.

She went upstairs and messaged me to ask if I needed anything in the bathroom. If not, she wanted to shower, wash her hair and she would need 3-hours in the bathroom alone and did not want any interruptions. This was about 8pm. She also told me that whenever I left the house again I would need to give her not only the key, but also the garage door opener.

I apologized for my mistake of leaving the screen door locked and then went about the business of cleaning the house and going for a walk.  When she was finished in the bathroom I prepared for bed and it was clear that she was very angry. The jist of it is that she felt that if I cared for her, I would have come immediately for her. I told her I felt helpfless as I did not have my car at the park and was reliant on my parents. I also told her that I was confused because I had understood that she was OK, as she had told me to take my time and to relax. She told me that she only told me that because she did not want me to drive dangerously to get there, but of course she had wanted me to come immediately. She is here in a foreign country where she has given up everything to be here with me. If the situation was reversed, she told me she would not have left me alone like that. I told her that it was not fair to tell me one thing and then to expect another thing. She needs to communicate with me. If she had communicated her true feelings with me, I would have persisted in working to get a locksmith, or find a way to get home earlier.

Next, she asked me why I hadn't offered to come by the house first, and unlock the doors. I told her that I hadn't thought of it as I was fixated on getting home as soon as possible, and because I did not know she was so close to the house at the time. I thought she would need a ride (and there is also the conflict between my daughter and her, who was with me at the time).

She accused me of not caring for her and from there the argument got more heated and in response she basically said that she was done; she has made her decision. She asked me, what do we do to get divorced?

I really can't believe this. First, I felt her response was much stronger than warranted. Second, I cannot understand why she first told me "not to worry and to take my time," but now wants to divorce me for "not caring about her" because I did not come immediately. Finally, I need to learn to do a better job of controling how I respond to her in these moments because I often react in a way that escalates, by saying something snide, or trying to argue/reason with her. I can often be reactionary in my responses in moments of tension, which is something I am working on myself.

I guess I just feel at a low point and I need support.  I know we can only control ourselves and our own behavior.  I know I have things to learn and to work on. But this is a heck of an emotional roller coaster and I really don't understand all of what I am experiencing. I would appreciate some support and wisdom from this community. Thank you for your gracious reading of my first post.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[kells76]

Hi MonarchRtrns, welcome to the group. You're definitely in the right place for coping with a partner who seems to take you on an emotional roller coaster, with responses that are off the charts to "normal range" issues. It's so hard to deal with -- the sense that you have to be worried all the time about how she might respond.

Couple of questions as you get started here:

If I'm understanding you correctly, you have one daughter, and your wife has one daughter, but you two don't have any children together? How old are the kids?

Something definitely led you here, to these boards. I'm curious how you learned about BPD and what started your search to make sense of things. You mention your W having some mild symptoms and thought distortions that match; what other traits or behaviors (if any) are going on? I'm reading in your post: blame, harmfully intense and wildly changing emotions, using words that don't correspond to actual feelings ("don't worry" when actually worried) or words that carry a real-world meaning of intensity to express unrelated feelings ("let's get divorced" to express anger or sadness). Anything else?

And have you reached out to a therapist or counselor for support?

...

Keep posting and reading here whenever works for you.

Let us know how you're doing;

kells76

[MonarchRtrns]

Thank you so much, kells76!

Yes, you are correct: we each have one daughter in their teenage years. We are married less than a year and have no children together.

The reason I found this board is because I was grappling with some of my wife's behaviors and was trying to understand them. I believe I googled "jealousy anger," which are some traits she exhibits from time to time.  I believe in response to that Google search, one of the most prominent results was a discussion of BPD. From there I learned about the book "Walking on Eggshells," and the title attracted me immediately because that is how I have been feeling. I have begun skimming through the book and that led me to this forum.

Other symptoms that i have seen in her:  She is extremely pessimistic. I often see her thinking the worst of people. She is a black and white thinker. All of the things that you mention below are also true.

No, I have not worked with a counselor. Early on I tried to reach out to a marriage family therapist to help us with some of our issues in our early marriage (the amount of time I spent with my daugther, for example, and how I scheduled that time with her), but I found that insurance does not pay for that therapy and it is so expensive! I am the only one able to work right now.

We worked through many of our early issues, but I continue to feel that I am "walking on eggshells" and that every few weeks there is a new blow-up.  That led me to search online and to learn about BPD. 

Thank you so much for your care in responding.

[thankful person]

Monarch, I totally sympathise and relate to your experience. I highly recommend the book, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. I also haven’t had therapy, but the book felt like therapy to me (I bought the audiobook). I have managed to make so many positive improvements to my relationship without my wife’s input. Her behaviour can still be challenging.

Even yesterday she was at a new hospital for a pregnancy scan and I took care of our two babies. So we all went to the hospital but I was to take them for a walk. But the issue is always that when my wife wants my attention I’m not there quick enough. We walked for over an hour without going very far (babies in buggy). But then the older one was getting upset to keep circling round the hospital. Wife had to have an injection and chat with consultant and then to redo the scan as baby was in wrong position. I texted saying older daughter was getting upset so we were going on a longer walk.

But my wife was still really upset when she got out and had to wait 10-15 mins for us. Many of my behaviours do count as caretaking which I am wary of. But I wanted to be at the hospital with the kids to be supportive even though it would be easier to stay home. I wanted to be close when she came out. Her last birth was traumatic and the baby was very sick so she is understandably scared. And I ran much of the way back in the blazing heat with a double buggy.

The way I handled my wife differently from how I used to was actually not to give the issue and her reaction too much attention. They say don’t JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain). I tend to make one statement that covers all of this then I indicate I’m ready to move on. Validate any feelings she expresses and don’t tell her she shouldn’t feel unloved or whatever. So it’s no longer an argument which used to escalate into a full blown noisy row and all manner of other accusations towards me. When we met up at the hospital I explained what I’d already explained on the phone and in text. My wife had a go at me for walking too fast (I had been in such a hurry!) and not showing me the kids or asking if she wanted to push the pram. When I offered she said no (of course). We walked in silence back to the car for a few minutes. It is better to give her that silent time to get over it where I used to always try and fix things. Then back at the car she starts talking as normal and it’s all over. It has taken many years of muddling through then the past year of hardcore bpd reading and studying and spending time on here. But things have certainly improved. I’m glad you found the forum and wish you all the best.

[MonarchRtrns]

thankful person and kells76: Your responses are so meaningful to me as I grapple with all of the emotions I am dealing with right now.  I will take a look at the book you recommended.  I am also working my way through stop walking on eggshells.  kells76, it sounds like we really do share the same experience of feeling that we need to be 100% responsive and attentive, or else major escalating arguments insue.

My wife and I had a quick chat this evening. She is still very angry (it usually takes her 2-3 days to come down). She was beginning to escalate again thinking about her interactions with my ex-Spouse and my daughter. I was proud of myself, however, as I did my best to maintain even composure and to listen and repeat back, and to show understanding and empathy, the best I could.

She is still talking about divorce and returning to her country. She feels that all of the drama with my daughter and my ex-Spouse is too much for her, and she has given up too much to be here. She did float the idea of moving to another State so that I would be away from my family, so that it would just be us, away from the family dynamics.  I told her that was a lot for me to process but that I would think about it and be ready to talk about that in the days and weeks to come. She also told me that she wants to schedule regular time on the calendar between her and her daughter, as I do with mine, which I support.

She then continued to talk about returning to her country and, in response, I told her that I want to support her the best I can. I understand it is difficult for her to work here and have her independence. I said that I would be willing to consider a marriage where we live in both countries for part of the year. She said she wants that.
The conversation took a negative turn after that, however, when she asked me if I had stepped foot in my ex-Spouse's house today or yesterday when I dropped my daughter off. I told her not today, but i had done so to use the bathroom and to make sure that the house was secure yesterday, when my ex-Spouse was not at home (she was home today, and I did not enter).  That upset her greatly as I had promised her I would not enter my ex-Spouse's house in the past. Unfortunately I did not remember that yesterday, thinking it only applied if my ex-Spouse was in the house. I had forgotten that I had promised whether she was in the house or not. That greatly upset her again.

I am busy online trying to find a good therapist on my health plan this evening, as I really feel that i need the support, no matter what happens. This is such a roller coaster ride.

Earlier in the week I had planned a date night for us tomorrow evening outside of the house. I'm not sure if that is going to happen now.

I'm going to try and focus on what I can control: maintaining calm, and getting some good sleep tonight after hardly sleeping at all last night. I really appreciate the thoughts, suggestions and shared experiences.

[MonarchRtrns]

I wanted to give an update:  Last night we were in the car driving to pick up my wife's daughter, and this gave her the opportunity to rip into me. It felt a little irrational, but I believe she was angry at me for a compendium of things, but most particularly for the fact that I had stepped inside of the house of my ex-Spouse. I think she had had a few drinks, and she began to call me a liar, and basically made me feel like crap. It tried to tune it out, but it felt pretty abusive. I am proud of myself, however, as in the past I would have likely escalated in response. If I could have escaped from the car, I would have, but because I was driving, however, I just told her "I am not going to engage in that," and I was silent and calmly drove, trying not to listen to her rant. She mimicked me in a dismissive manner and continued to unload on me. I tried to tune out most of it but much of what she says really feels that it comes from a vindictive place. She said something about doing the same thing to me, and then I will understand. Much of her behavior, when she is angry, really does feel like it comes from a vindictive "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," type worldview.

I would appreciate your advice:  Generally I think I did a great job by not responding nor escalating. I read the advice on this form on SET and JADE, and tried to follow that by showing empathy, but not engaging with hostile behavior. However, I am sensitive to words and as much as I tried to tune out much of what she was saying, but it still hurts. Because I was driving I felt like I could not escape. Next time, I think my plan would be to pull over to the side of the road, in a safe place, and tell her, "I am ready to talk when it is a good time for both of us and when we can discuss our issues calmly and in a productive way, but I feel you are talking in a very angry way right now that is not productive for us. Therefore I don't want to talk right now. I am going to exit the car for a moment to catch my breath, and then I will continue to pick up your daughter in just a couple of minutes. Later, I will be ready to talk whenever we are both calm." Does that sound like a good approach? I would appreciate any thoughts you have on this. It is easy to leave the room during an argument, but more difficult during a car ride. A car ride can also be a very dangerous place for an argument.

I think that I found a good therapist in the area and I am going to call them Monday to get some additional outside support. I don't think that my wife is full bpd, but she certainly has many traits and is on the spectrum.  Here are the things that I need to figure out:

1. Is this a relationship that I want to continue in?
2. If it is, what boundaries do I need to set for myself and how do I enforce them?
3. Would part of those boundaries include asking her to attend therapy as well (for anger, communication strategies, alcohol)? How would I do that in a productive way?
4. How do I best respond to her shifting demands/stated needs in a way that honors myself and our marriage, and her, in a way that is productive/non-agrumentative? How do I calmly and effectively respond to her triggering periodic requests to end the marriage?
5. How do I effectively respond to her provocations made in response to a slight/perceived slight of my own towards her?
6. Stategies for myself to deescalate, to communicate more effectively, to manage my own anger, and to make sure that I have the support I need and that I am doing what I need to do to be happy, independent of our relationship.
7. Support in helping me to identify and grapple with my own issues and continue to grow as a person, pursue my potential and to be happy, no matter the outcome of the relationship.

This morning my wife was very frigid toward me. She began to unload on me and I told her I would be ready to talk when we could talk in a productive way, but I would be leaving the room now because I did not feel this would be productive. She pointendly prepared a plate of cut up fruit/breakfast for her daughter and herself but not me.  Interestingly, I did not take the bait and I remained calm, returned to the kitchen, cut up my own fruit and joined them for breakfast.  Her thoughts turned to when her bicycle was stolen three days prior and she was very focused on that, and it was almost like her attitude shifted toward me as she could have this conversation with me about how she wants to speak to the management of the business from where the bicycle was stolen. It almost seemed like she saw me as more of an ally in this and her tone toward me (while still angry) softened. I think she even touched me on the arm at one point.

We have a date night tonight and we will see how it goes. She said she wants to go if just to enjoy herself, as she also deserves to enjoy herself. The event includes alcohol and that worries me a little. Hopefully her attitude has softened a little bit, which may preclude some problems. I am not going to drink any alcohol. I need to stay sharp and remain calm. We will see how it goes.  Thanks for reading and for any continued advice that you can offer on how to deescalate while trapped in a car while driving.

[thankful person]

Hey monarch,
It sounds like you are on the right track, well done. Hopefully you still have some self confidence as it can get whittled down over the years especially when people are isolated from loved ones. I have only been on here 18 months. But I do believe this forum and the reading I have done have saved my marriage. I’m no expert, but my wife has responded well to changes I have made so I will answer from my personal perspective.

1. Is this a relationship that I want to continue in?
2. If it is, what boundaries do I need to set for myself and how do I enforce them?
3. Would part of those boundaries include asking her to attend therapy as well (for anger, communication strategies, alcohol)? How would I do that in a productive way?
4. How do I best respond to her shifting demands/stated needs in a way that honors myself and our marriage, and her, in a way that is productive/non-agrumentative? How do I calmly and effectively respond to her triggering periodic requests to end the marriage?
5. How do I effectively respond to her provocations made in response to a slight/perceived slight of my own towards her?
6. Stategies for myself to deescalate, to communicate more effectively, to manage my own anger, and to make sure that I have the support I need and that I am doing what I need to do to be happy, independent of our relationship.
7. Support in helping me to identify and grapple with my own issues and continue to grow as a person, pursue my potential and to be happy, no matter the outcome of the relationship.

1. My reasons for wanting my relationship to work out, apart from my marriage vows, were mainly my children. I don’t want to be apart from them so the best answer seemed to be try and fix the marriage. Before I joined here I didn’t realise I could do this without any input from my wife. But I tentatively now say I have done. However, if your wife has bpd traits it will likely never be a normal relationship. I understand that my wife is emotionally disabled. There is generally no point in trying to get her to understand my perspective, just as if you’re trying to get a two year old to understand your perspective. This means getting the support most would expect from a partner is lacking. I’m ok with that. My life has toughened me and I generally don’t show much neediness with my wife or vulnerability as she doesn’t cope with it well. So that’s a decision to think about. It can be a lonely life and it can be very hard work, but it does get easier, and I’ve found the support on here is incredible.

2. Boundaries for me consisted mostly of breaking many rules my wife had set like that I wasn’t allowed to take photos of my children or play the piano. I also learnt to walk away when she spoke to me unkindly or shrieked at me. Think about things you are doing or not doing purely to please your wife. Then go about changing it to the life you want to live. Incredibly my wife has eventually become more sane in response to me being more self assured and less apologetic. Almost like she needed more of an adult me rather than the one desperate to please her.

3. I don’t know that much about alcoholics. But I didn’t ask my wife to attend anything at all. I know she wouldn’t as she doesn’t think she has a problem and thinks therapists are just nosy people. She was diagnosed bpd when severely mentally unwell, suicidal, self harming and eating disordered, shortly before we met. She went through dbt which helped her “recover”. She considers herself cured. I do not think she realises the jealous, angry, paranoid behaviour has anything to do with bpd. I haven’t bothered asking her and I’ve since learnt that it is not advised to mention bpd whether they have heard of it or not. It only upsets and angers them.

4. I’m sure you will be learning about validating.  It’s a tricky one. What I discovered early on when I was seriously muddling through, was that if I took a moment to think to myself, “what am I supposed to say here?” I kept my mouth shut. That’s it! Well not quite… but the results of not jumping in to JADE or to give her invalidating reassurance or whatever… have been amazing. I discovered through my silence how much I had been making things worse on a daily basis with all my words. Particularly the desperate apologetic ones. To validate what we disagree with you can say something like, “that must be so upsetting for you to feel I’m not a supportive husband..,” or whatever. There are still things I haven’t figured out. Apparently I “never” support her. But actually I’m just doing my best to prevent the screeching behaviour that used to be daily and is very rare now. I’m so proud to have made these changes for my children to have a happier more stable childhood.

5. Again, similar question. Take it with a pinch of salt. It’s hard to explain. Like, when my wife says something, she totally believes it to be true. But whilst I would then be stewing on it for hours/days/forever, it may be that a couple of hours later she doesn’t think it anymore. But you certainly don’t want to ask her about it. I don’t bring up previous arguments like I used to. If I don’t dwell and remind my wife of her accusations towards me she seems to get over it. When I did used to constantly ask her, “what can I do to better support you?” And she constantly told me, “you should know how to support me…” it was like my believing her accusation made it more real to her. So yeah, only yesterday I got accused of never supporting her. I told her it was upsetting to hear that. And left it at that. I’m really not bothered like I used to be.

6. You will learn many communication strategies in the bpd books and also on here like SET. For me it was like as my understanding developed then her words bothered me a lot less. We get lots of validation ourselves on here too. I had been working with children on the autistic spectrum and with severe behavioural issues for many years before I met my wife. It didn’t help me to communicate with her at all (autism is so much simpler!) but I guess it was easier for me to see bpd as being a disability. Therapy will hopefully help you and hopefully the therapist will be familiar with bpd, even though your wife doesn’t have a diagnosis. Also make sure you keep contact with friends and family and don’t work overtime at hiding the facts about any of your wife’s crazy behaviour from others. I learnt this is a form of caretaking too. I felt stronger just admitting some strange facts to others.

7. I think with the journey you’re on then your confidence will grow. Work on self care, doing things to make yourself happy, for me these were many things my wife had banned me from doing. Hopefully therapy will help with this too but it’s not something I did myself.

I hope I’ve helped a little. I only really know my own experience as well as what I’ve read. But I’ve learnt so much from others on here that’s why I come back to try and pay it forward if I can. I owe everything to bpd family and my children’s childhood is so much better than it would have been. I can never thank everyone here enough.