>Communication breakdown

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I'm in a 2 year long distance relationship. My boyfriend is going through a lot of stress right now (although to be honest, he seems to always be going through a lot of stress). Our communication has broken down horribly. I know I can't change his behaviour, so I'm trying to work on understanding things better and shaping my own. But nothing I do seems to work.

Nothing I do is right, and there is no path to improvement:
According to him, I don't listen and I don't understand, and I don't support him. When things are rough with him, nothing I do or say is right. I try to validate him I'm just "agreeing with everything he says." He says I never encourage him, but when I try, I'm told that they're "just platitudes," and that he needs actual, practical support. When I offer to brainstorm or act as a sounding board, or help break down his issues into small steps, that's rejected too. When I offer to just listen, I'm told I never listen. When I ask what I can do to help, he asks for practical support (which he rejects) or encouragement (which he rejects), or tells me there's nothing I can do. But when I try to disengage and give him space, he tells me I'm ignoring him and gets mad at me for not helping.

I understand that a lot of this is just... BPD. But I'm also not sure if I'm just missing something. I've read so many books, listened to so many podcasts, scoured so many message boards. I've tried different methods of communication (SET, Shari Manning's 5 steps, etc). I sometimes think my trying is the problem, that he's reading me as inauthentic (he's accused me of "therapy speak" during some of my earlier, clumsier attempts). But I don't know how to be myself with him anymore. I can't stop weighing every word, re-reading old messages to try to figure things out, flailing around in the hopes that one day I'll accidentally say the right thing or do the right gesture.

I have tried to talk about these things when he is out of crisis mode. In the past he has reassured me that it's not my problem and that there is nothing I can do. But over the last few months he seems set on believing that there is something I can/should do, but I'm not doing it because I don't care / don't value our relationship.

There used to be glimmers of self awareness and tenderness and trust. This is really hard, but I'm open to hard things. I know I will never be on the pedestal of the first few months. But now I'm down in a hole, and I don't know if I will ever get out.

[thecounterfeiter]

Hello,

I'm in a 2 year long distance relationship. My boyfriend is going through a lot of stress right now (although to be honest, he seems to always be going through a lot of stress). Our communication has broken down horribly. I know I can't change his behaviour, so I'm trying to work on understanding things better and shaping my own. But nothing I do seems to work.

Nothing I do is right, and there is no path to improvement:
According to him, I don't listen and I don't understand, and I don't support him. When things are rough with him, nothing I do or say is right. I try to validate him I'm just "agreeing with everything he says." He says I never encourage him, but when I try, I'm told that they're "just platitudes," and that he needs actual, practical support. When I offer to brainstorm or act as a sounding board, or help break down his issues into small steps, that's rejected too. When I offer to just listen, I'm told I never listen. When I ask what I can do to help, he asks for practical support (which he rejects) or encouragement (which he rejects), or tells me there's nothing I can do. But when I try to disengage and give him space, he tells me I'm ignoring him and gets mad at me for not helping.

I understand that a lot of this is just... BPD. But I'm also not sure if I'm just missing something. I've read so many books, listened to so many podcasts, scoured so many message boards. I've tried different methods of communication (SET, Shari Manning's 5 steps, etc). I sometimes think my trying is the problem, that he's reading me as inauthentic (he's accused me of "therapy speak" during some of my earlier, clumsier attempts). But I don't know how to be myself with him anymore. I can't stop weighing every word, re-reading old messages to try to figure things out, flailing around in the hopes that one day I'll accidentally say the right thing or do the right gesture.

I have tried to talk about these things when he is out of crisis mode. In the past he has reassured me that it's not my problem and that there is nothing I can do. But over the last few months he seems set on believing that there is something I can/should do, but I'm not doing it because I don't care / don't value our relationship.

There used to be glimmers of self awareness and tenderness and trust. This is really hard, but I'm open to hard things. I know I will never be on the pedestal of the first few months. But now I'm down in a hole, and I don't know if I will ever get out.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Pook075]

There used to be glimmers of self awareness and tenderness and trust. This is really hard, but I'm open to hard things. I know I will never be on the pedestal of the first few months. But now I'm down in a hole, and I don't know if I will ever get out.

Hey Counterfeiter and welcome to the forums!  I'm so sorry you're going through this and it sounds like you have a pretty solid grasp of the situation.

I would start by saying that this is not a "you thing" and like you said, there's not a lot you can do to "fix this."  I do not think you're missing something other than the belief that this falls on you somehow. 

By going back and replaying conversations, texts, etc. searching for where you might have been able to do something different, you're looking at this as your problem, your mistake, etc.  The problem here is clearly BPD, and with BPD you're going to get emotional dysregulation that strains relationships.  He says what he feels in the moment, and that opinion can change very quickly.  So by trying to figure out how one comment leads to the next comment, you're missing the part where it's coming from someone unstable who's just speaking his feelings in real time.

My soon to be ex wife and oldest daughter both have BPD, so I've been in plenty of these conversations in my life.  One that really stands out though was last year when my daughter said to me, "I've had things to tell you my whole life to understand me and you never listen, you've never tried to understand me."  So I said, "Okay, then tell me what you have to say..."

For the next 1+ hours, she gave me shattered fragments of her life and how I was always to blame...even when I had nothing to do with the situation.  She unloaded on me and kept talking in circles, changing her arguments, changing her blame...all the while I sat silent.  I was getting extremely annoyed because she wasn't really saying anything...it was just a billion random thoughts that didn't fit together in any way, shape, or form.

But I sat there anyway and listened, trying not to react and just letting her vent.  Around 1.5 hours into this, she said, "I feel like I'm not saying what I want to say and I don't know how...."  I finally couldn't take it anymore and spoke up.  I can't remember what I said but it wasn't validating because my brain was on fire...this was torture just listening and being blamed for everything my daughter couldn't say or even understand herself.

Her thoughts didn't fit together though because my kid was simply describing her unstable emotions in the moment with unstable words.  She was 20x more upset at the end of this than when we started, the process itself was tearing her down because she couldn't get to what she needed to say.  Her brain just couldn't lock down on a single problem that we could work on solving together.

So, with a million accusations rolling around in my head and zero progress, it finally dawned on my that my kid is unstable and terribly upset...this was essentially self-harm.  So I pushed those million words aside and just focused on making her less upset, validating that I can see her pain and want to be part of the solution to get rid of it.  She slowly calmed down and we focused in on one thing we could solve, then we talked it out for a few minutes.  She was stable once again and my sanity began to return as well.

My point here is that my kid felt so passionate about "if she could just tell me how she felt..." and for the next two hours, she ranted aimlessly without telling me anything.  It made me realize that while it wasn't a "me thing", it really wasn't a "her thing" either.  It was BPD and all we can do when its out of control is to soothe the emotions toward stability.

Those were literally the hardest two hours of my life- I wanted to scream!  But I also feel like I saw BPD at its core and can now understand what people suffering from it must feel.  My daughter acted that way because she wanted to scream as well; she had no idea what her brain was doing or why she couldn't put a logical thought together.  That's the hell she lives with every single day...and I could barely take two hours of it.

Just show him empathy and compassion when you can...but also realize when it's hurting your mental health as well.  In those situations, the only thing that matters is soothing emotions to find stability.  Yet at the same time, you can't go down the rabbit hole with him...there's no bottom to their despair and it benefits no one.  I hope that helps a bit!

[thecounterfeiter]

Just show him empathy and compassion when you can...but also realize when it's hurting your mental health as well.  In those situations, the only thing that matters is soothing emotions to find stability.  Yet at the same time, you can't go down the rabbit hole with him...there's no bottom to their despair and it benefits no one.  I hope that helps a bit!

Thank you so much for this reply. Describing the process of him "trying to get me to understand" as self harm rings very true. At times like this I get so caught up in trying to understand, or trying to reframe or react "properly."  And then he just gets more and more upset that I'm not "getting it."

I really wish I could figure out a way to show him compassion/validation in a way that works for him. But this upsets me too. Really the only thing that sort of works is just not responding. He'll still get upset, and he'll sometimes lash out as a way to pull me back in. But generally this seems like my best tactic for now.

When things like this happen it hurts so much. Yesterday I told him "You can get through this. I know it's a lot" after failing multiple attempts reply to his unclear requests for help. I knew it was a bit pat, but I was grasping at straws. This is the sort of thing he's said to me in the past when I'm struggling with stress, and I thought perhaps that I should follow his example. He told me "I don't think I've ever met anyone so melodramatically self absorbed, yet so callous." This morning he said that what I said was cruel, condescending, unthinking, and me actively trying to harm him. It hurts that he thinks this of me. It hurts that I have to fight to believe that this is not true of me. It hurts that he hurts. It hurts that I hurt.

I don't know what I'm going to do going forward, but I will definitely try to avoid going down the rabbit hole - either with him, or on my own. Thank you.

[thecounterfeiter]

I really wish I could figure out a way to show him compassion/validation in a way that works for him. But this upsets me too.

*I meant to type "this upsets HIM too." I don't mind trying to show compassion/validation (as I honestly feel it most of the time). But it's never received well by him.

[Pook075]

*I meant to type "this upsets HIM too." I don't mind trying to show compassion/validation (as I honestly feel it most of the time). But it's never received well by him.

I completely understand and I reach that point all the time. 

The key in my situations (with wife and daughter) is to recognize that they're unstable, and the only goal in that moment should be stability.

For example, if my wife asks me why I didn't go with her to her parents house more often, I'll answer the question and talk it out as long as she wants to.  That's something I can explain while showing my beliefs and empathizing with hers.

However, if my wife comes at me with, "You never cared about my parents", then I know she's ready to argue for the sake of arguing and no positive outcomes can come from it.  I could list a thousand things I did for her parents and it wouldn't matter...so why play the game to begin with?  Deep down, she knows this is a false statement but it's one that she clings to in order to validate her actions.

So I focus on her dark emotions...the sadness, the anger, the confusion...and I don't talk about her parents at all.  Instead, I'll ask her why she's bringing that up, what's really going on that has her down.  I will tell her that we both made mistakes in the past and I wish there was something I could do to change them (there's not), and I will empathize with her feelings without directly taking the blame.

What happens when she gets dysregulated and in that negative thought cycle, her energy may be at a 7 out of 10.  If I challenge her, then it's instantly a 10 out of 10 and there's nothing left to do but withdraw.  However, if I can react to her emotions with sympathy and show her that I actually care, then those emotions go from a 7 to a 6, 5, 4, 3...and now we can talk about whatever's hitting her like a ton of bricks.  But that's impossible at a 7 and a fool's errand at a 10.

We've been separated for 18 months now and maybe a year ago, she would approach me calmly but as soon as I said something she didn't agree with, she was instantly at a 10 and it's game over.  After validating her through our brief conversations over the past year though, if I say something she doesn't like maybe she goes to a 4....and we can still communicate at a 4...I still have the opportunity to turn things around. 

I shared that to say that this doesn't have to be a lifelong conversation where this always happens over and over and over again.  You do need to learn to communicate though in a disarming, affirming matter without just accepting blame.  And at times, you also must know when to cut your losses and get out of the fire.  Both of these tactics are very hard to master (I'm not there yet by far) but each time you're successful, the next round is just a little less intense.

In other words, you want to get that baseline of intensity (for any emotion) down from unmanageable to workable.  And you do that through love, kindness, empathy, patience, etc. as you focus on the emotions.

[ForeverDad]

When I was younger some 40+years ago I had some good friends recommend a nice girl they knew from back home on the other side of the country.  I couldn't afford long distance calls back then, nor flights, so I wrote a few letters.  I didn't even meet her.  I couldn't make a connection and so nothing came of it.

That's why I would say that distance combined with limited contact is an obvious obstacle to a successful friendship and romance.  While men can be friends over the years, and women too, if a romantic relationship is not stable and improving over time, then its future becomes iffy.

Yes, you're trying valiantly but his disorderedness is a serious added complication, especially because he's not responding well.  Therefore, part of your perspective must include the reality that he may never choose to improve himself.

When you read our posts here, one theme that often plays out is that if the person doesn't try to improve long term then the relationship will continue dysfunctional, and in many cases get worse.  So now, before you ponder getting married or having children, now is the time for honest personal assessment, "Do I face a lengthy uphill struggle in the relationship?" and also, "Is there a healthy and happy future here?"

I admit this post is not limited to just communication and may have focused on the overall scope of the friendship.  I was just thinking that if you succeed in addressing your communication concerns, there may be other issues that would pop up in its place.

[thecounterfeiter]

That's why I would say that distance combined with limited contact is an obvious obstacle to a successful friendship and romance.  While men can be friends over the years, and women too, if a romantic relationship is not stable and improving over time, then its future becomes iffy.

Yes, you're trying valiantly but his disorderedness is a serious added complication, especially because he's not responding well.  Therefore, part of your perspective must include the reality that he may never choose to improve himself.

This is a very good point. I never meant to enter a long distance relationship. We spend the first 5 months or so of our relationship as casual online pals, chatting, flirting, and checking in on each other. And then suddenly we *clicked.* We became close, we started to have feelings. We visited. We message almost every day. I had utopian dreams (involving a lasting romantic friendship, but not marriage or kids) for how this could work out, but yeaaaah. The whole situation is just more likely to fail.

And he is absolutely not choosing to improve himself. I wish he would, but wishing doesn't make it so.

When I look at things objectively, I know the "correct" decision for both of us is for me to leave. But I don't want to. Maybe he'll do something that will snap me out of it. Or maybe I will work on myself enough that I get the strength to do so. But I'm just not ready yet.