Amnesty

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Unicorn... .Hopefully he comes through with the info before Friday, since he knows how important this is to you and your relationship. Those are his moves to make or not. Either way a deadline is an ending and beginning. With 'amnesty' you're asking him if he's really (going to be) honest with you, which is definitely an ingredient here that's important. Good for you to keep your cool about it, while being Yourself. Question: How can we be sure the 'truthfulness' is as real as what we're asking for if the confession comes after the person is caught being deceitful? It's in the actions/takes time.

[myself]

Unicorn... .Hopefully he comes through with the info before Friday, since he knows how important this is to you and your relationship. Those are his moves to make or not. Either way a deadline is an ending and beginning. With 'amnesty' you're asking him if he's really (going to be) honest with you, which is definitely an ingredient here that's important. Good for you to keep your cool about it, while being Yourself. Question: How can we be sure the 'truthfulness' is as real as what we're asking for if the confession comes after the person is caught being deceitful? It's in the actions/takes time.

[unicorn2014]

FF, My partner already knows this is a big deal to me. 

There are two kinds of "knowing"

One... .a person can repeat something.  They "know" what to say.

There is another kind of knowing that represents value... .

For instance... .I do things for my wife... .that I don't particularly enjoy or want to do... .but I know they are a big deal for my wife.  I "know" it's a big deal to her.  I demonstrate that through my actions.

It's been three years... .if a divorce was a big deal to him... .there would be verifiable evidence of the divorce moving forward.  If he "knew" this was a big deal... .there would be something he could demonstrate to show that.

My 2 cents worth...

FF

FF, he asked her to leave, she moved out, he let their employees go, he closed their business, he sold their house, he's filing back taxes and preparing to move to my state. This is evidence of things moving forward. I'm the one that's stuck on the divorce papers because they are important to me. Being in a relationship with a married man is an ethical conflict for me, despite all that he's done. The hold up with the paperwork is his wife is going after his assets and he's working some kind of plan to make sure she doesn't. That's the hold up, and that's what I'm tired of.

[unicorn2014]

FF, the amnesty idea was one of my former therapist's ideas not mine. At this point anything is better then me getting mad because the papers haven't come in the mail nor been posted on the website. I won't know how to go forward from there if that doesn't happen so the amnesty idea buys my fiancé some more time rather then me losing my temper. As an aside, my partner and I have had a good week so far, which I am happy about. No arguing for three days now.

[unicorn2014]

Myself, I do hope the papers come in the mail or are posted on the county website before Friday. If not we're going to have a problem. That's where the amnesty idea comes in. If neither the papers turn up or nothing turns up as a result of amnesty, then we have a problem. That's what I'm not prepared to deal with. My fiancé is already too intertwined with my life to back out now over issues of paperwork. So I have to find a way to live with this situation. As I've mentioned to others I've set up boundaries in terms of my fiancé can not stay with me anymore because of the current status of things.

[Turkish]

I'm the one that's stuck on the divorce papers because they are important to me. Being in a relationship with a married man is an ethical conflict for me, despite all that he's done. The hold up with the paperwork is his wife is going after his assets and he's working some kind of plan to make sure she doesn't. That's the hold up, and that's what I'm tired of.

What's the breakpoint for you? If the papers are filed, things are moving forward. If there's a battle over assets, that could drag on. It sounds to me that if the papers are filed, you're willing to wait and continue in the r/s until the divorce is finalized, right? It would be a sort of limbo, but at least there would be an end in sight.

[formflier]

As I've mentioned to others I've set up boundaries in terms of my fiancé can not stay with me anymore because of the current status of things.

What is the list of boundaries that you currently have in place?

FF

[formflier]

FF, the amnesty idea was one of my former therapist's ideas not mine.

Yes... .and I strongly believe it is an idea to be "supervised" and controlled by a therapist.

Also... how does amnesty prevent you from being mad? 

FF

[formflier]

The hold up with the paperwork is his wife is going after his assets and he's working some kind of plan to make sure she doesn't. That's the hold up, and that's what I'm tired of.

What assets? 

Sounds to me like he has liquidated... .

FF

[unicorn2014]

Turkish, that is a good question. I hope the papers are in the box or posted on the website because if they're not, we're going to have a problem.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, a list of boundaries I have in place? He already knows he has to show me his papers before he stays with me again. Assets? He was liquidating which was holding up the divorce process and that is why I put my foot down. Now his wife is contesting which is what is holding up the process again. That is what he told me. Is it my job to figure him out? I don't think so.

One of my former therapists suggested amnesty. If he was concerned about me doing it on my own he would not have suggested it. I think you are giving me less credit then my former therapist did. How does amnesty prevent me from being mad? Well, since amnesty is a part of forgiveness, and since I am trying to be a forgiving person, amnesty is helping me to be the kind of person I want to be. So to practice, forgive me for saying so, but you are right, you are being kind of harsh. May I ask why? You are happily married to your BPD wife. I'm trying to stay in a relationship with my BPD financé. I thought that's what this board was all about? That's why I came here for help in the first place. I already lost one friendship over this relationship and my dad asking me "what are you going to do about it?" isn't helpful either. In recovery we learn all kinds of useful little phrases like "pause when agitated" or "count to 10 and count to 10 again if that doesn't help".

Then of course there is the myriad of help available to us through dbt. May I ask what you know about that? I haven't heard much mention of dbt here at all until turkish came in with wise mind and mindfulness. That is the kind of stuff I need to hear. And what the other poster said about time. I don't want to be mad at my fiancé. You understand that, right? When I get mad at him all sorts of bad things happen, you know?

[Skip]

This is an awkward situation, but not unheard of.

There are two side of this. THe ethical dilemma and the risk you are facing. The _____ that he is facing and is causing him to go slower on getting this thing filed.

There is a significant reason he has not filed.  It could be an understandable one.  He may want to get the taxes done, he may be fearful of the battle, he may not be fully emotionally ready to start dividing assets, there may be an issue (like a tax problem) that he wants to get clean before standing before a judge.

Understanding the _________ is really the first issue.  Assuming his issue is inconsequential and demanding he file for divorce isn't much of a partnership.  Neither is him saying he filed when he didn't.

You both are not being good partners here.

I think getting on the "same side of this" with each other is the first step.  I think if you are going to give him amnesty, give him a safe place to explain what he is really struggling with and be open minded. It may be hard to tell you because there may be parts he knows you won't like - like he simply might not be ready or sure yet - 80% ready but not 100%.

Don't underestimate how how difficult going through the divorce is going to be for him.  A divorce is huge emotional drain, there is the legal battle and there are the fears and loses he will grieve.

Also, do not underestimate the risk for the relationship. Rolling directly from a marriage into another relationship is high risk. Having divorce papers in hand doesn't fully mitigate that risk.

Don't underestimate the converting LDR to real-time is also fraught with risks.  Even in cases of the best intentions.

This is complex adult stuff.

[unicorn2014]

Skip, I'm mad right now so that might be reflected in my writing. He says his filed and his word should be good enough. He says he has a real problem with me asking for the papers.

He's already dividing his assets. He sent me some early on to keep them for him. He also spent a lot of money on gifts for me and traveling to see me early on and I think he might have been doing that to keep the money away from his wife.

He told me on the day I found out he was married that he was filing for divorce. Then a year later he told me his wife was threatening to take him for all he had so he was withdrawing the divorce. I was livid and we almost broke up over this but for some reason we didn't. I was already hooked. After a year or two of inaction I finally put my foot down and said I had enough and that's where we're at now. I demanded he stick to the plan he had when he first asked me to marry him.

This isn't the first time he's divorced this woman.

It wasn't my idea to get engaged to a married man. When I met him I didn't know he was married and when I asked him he denied it. It wasn't until his wife introduced herself to me that I found out. I thought she was his sister since he hadn't told me of a wife. I also didn't know he was 16 years older then me when I met him. These are his complex adult issues, not mine.

[Skip]

These are his complex adult issues, not mine.

Actually they are yours to navigate.

I get the sense that the dynamics are off in this relationship. "You better show me divorce filings" is a little like "you better start showing me love".  You want these things pushed to you, you don't want to pull them.

I can see his point about "don't make me prove I'm not lying" - which is also a bad dynamic.

How can you both get on the same side of all of this?

[unicorn2014]

Skip, I do not know how we are going to get on the same side of all this, because for now it still looks like he's lying to me. I'm  pissed off. He lied to me in order to get into a relationship with me, now it looks like he's lying to me in order to stay in a r/s with me. Notice I said "looks like", because if I say anything then I'm told I'm accusing him of lying. I just got off the phone with him and I told him I was not accusing him of lying. I told him I either need him to come forth with some information that would explain why the papers weren't filed, the papers need to get posted, or I need to hear from his lawyer or the county clerk. The only reason I entered into a r/s with this man is because he told me he was filing. It is a huge religious and ethical conflict for me if he is not.

On the bright side I did put a call in to a new therapist today after talking to my former therapist on the phone. My former therapist is now treating my fiancé so it is a conflict of interest for me to talk to him.

Maybe there is no improving the dynamic in this situation. He's not budging. He's expecting me to accept the status quo as some other posters alluded to. While I won't take the harsh stance of some of the other posters, I also can't be too liberal with him either. I'm really up a creek without a paddle.

I can try asking him the question on Friday "how can we both get on the same side of all of this?" That seems much more peaceful approach then how I'm feeling right now which is hot steaming mad. He thinks I'm going to break up with him. I told him I'm not, and things can't continue on like this.

In terms of this complex adult issues, they aren't my problems. I'm not the one with the business and the wife and the assets and the taxes who needs to move cross country and get divorced. My problems are relatively simple in comparison.