WOW People who "get" it

[RedRyder]

I am sitting here in amazement.

In reading over some of the posts on this board, I have finally found others who are experiencing many of the same things I have experianced in dealing with my 38 year old daughter with diagnosed SUD and (I am certain) undiagnosed BPD.

Thank you for this "place" and thanks to those posting their struggles. I really thought I was alone in this.

Totally amazing.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Panda39]

Welcome RedRyder 

Yes, we all "get it" for sure.  I'm here because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw).  I was amazed when I first landed here how similar all of our stories are... eerie. 

What can you tell us about your daughter?  Are there particular things you struggle with in terms of your relationship with her?  There is a lot of experience here, great advice, support and tools, I'm sure the members here will be as helpful to you as they have been to me.

Welcome to the Group! 

Panda39

[RedRyder]

Sure.

Presently, my relationship with my daughter is at a standstill. I have made the decision to try something new, which is do nothing.

She is resistant to treatment, leaving psych hospitals or sober living facilities after only a few days since she, as she says, "doesn't like their rules." This year alone she has been in a minimum of 2 hospitals and 4 sober living homes. Any follow-up care arranged for her is ignored.

She has not held a steady job since the latter part of her teenage years, living off others including me and her step-father. She has committed both food stamp and medicaid fraud  for years, claiming she is in possession of her children when she has not had them with her, or alternately claiming she and the child are living elsewhere away from the child's father when they were under the same roof. We're fairly certain she "sells" the food stamps for cash. She has worn us out financially with expenses for many abortive attempts for living arrangements, counseling, in-patient stays, etc.

She has frustrated the sincere attempts of many AA sponsors, who now refuse to help her any longer - they'll be civil to her, but no longer agree to sponsor her. She has used the kindness of other AA members for money, transportation, a temporary place to live, etc.

She is verbally abusive and sometimes physically abusive, especially towards me. I filed a police report on her earlier this year for assault, but it went nowhere.

She plays people off of one another, plays victim, triangulates like mad, and causes chaos and drama pretty much everywhere she goes. She is extremely impulsive - and I cannot emphasize that enough.

She uses her children as pawns against their fathers, and against my husband and me.

There's so much more, but you get the idea. For so many years, her issues were put off to SUD and perhaps PTSD. While I know no one thinks it's a good idea to attach a diagnosis to someone without a psych's blessing, the only thing missing from the list of BPD symptoms is her actual name.

It explains a lot. And why, to my knowledge, no professional every figured this out, is mindboggling. Of course, maybe someone did figure it out, and the diagnosis was not revealed by her. Who knows?

It's been a long, hard, confusing road. And we, her family, are exhausted.

[wendydarling]

Hi Red Ryder

I join Panda39 welcoming you to bpdfamily

I'm sorry what you've been through with your DD and hope landing here helps you gain perspective what's really happening and ways you can help yourself through the resources and joining others threads.

Presently, my relationship with my daughter is at a standstill. I have made the decision to try something new, which is do nothing.

What does standstill mean in your relationship with your daughter? Are the fathers co-parenting?

Welcome again, we look forward to getting to know you, you are not alone.

WDx

[RedRyder]

Thanks for the welcome.

Standstill means that I'm staying out of the way. Limited contact, no financial support, won't play along with using the children as pawns for her benefit. She's continued to refuse treatment and continues to act in negative ways, impacting her life, her children, and all her family. Life itself, will need to be her teacher for the foreseeable future. We can't reach her and need some rest and self-care to heal from the drama.

As to the dad's co-parenting of the children, the oldest child's dad has full custody and refuses to allow her visitation without supervision. I was that supervisor, but have now  withdrawn from that position.

The youngest child's dad (3x felon, including sex offenses and drug possession) split over a year ago saying he wanted to terminate his parental rights and has made no contact with the child since. This same child was in my care most of his life, and in my home continuously the last 2.5 years, with only sporadic contact with mom and dad.

A few days before Christmas she decided to take off with the youngest child (8 yo) to live with someone she knows from social media - a person with a lengthy arrest record. She, as usual, has no job, no driver's license, nothing. Driving a car an acquaintance lent her that is literally held together by duct tape (not kidding).

Yeah, it's a mess. Praying for my youngest grandson's safety. Trying to put it in God's hands.

I'm almost certain she will never conquer this illness as she has been resistant to treatment for years. Sad, but true.

Again, one bright spot, is in reading through this board, I have been surprised to know I'm not alone.The puzzle pieces fit. Wish I'd found this out years ago.

If you read this far, then thank you for your time in letting me vent. The average person does not understand all this.

[Only Human]

Hi Red Ryder  

I join Panda and wendydarling in welcoming you to BPD Family. My goodness you've been through a lot over the years, tried to do what you could to help your DD turn her life around, to no avail. She's rejected all attempts. No wonder you're feeling the need to step back, give yourselves time to rest and heal.

This same child was in my care most of his life, and in my home continuously the last 2.5 years, with only sporadic contact with mom and dad.

A few days before Christmas she decided to take off with the youngest child (8 yo) The average person does not understand all this.

You're right, the average person doesn't understand this. We do. You were the primary caregivers for 2.5 years and now she's taken him to live in undesirable conditions. This is heartbreaking yet not uncommon.

It seems you've decided on some reasonable boundaries, so important when dealing with a person with BPD (pwBPD).

There is a lot of information available to us here, to help us navigate these troubled waters and I thought of this piece here, on boundaries, and wonder if you've read it.  

Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

How did your DD respond when told you would no longer facilitate the visits with her youngest?

Again, welcome to the family. I look forward to getting to know you and supporting you on this journey.

~ OH

[RedRyder]

Thank you, Only Human, for your welcome and your encouraging words.

To answer your question: when my daughter learned I would no longer supervise her visitation with her oldest son, the look on her face was like thunder. The old saying comes to mind, "if looks could kill... .". Yeah, it was a scary moment and I removed myself quickly before anything could escalate.

I doubt she has any viable options for a supervisor, other than one that is paid. She's burned out both sides of her family with her actions. But, that's what is meant when it's said "choices have consequences".

I worry for the little one. Fully knowing, though, with my daughter that situations don't last for long. Be it a job, living situation, you name it. Her impulsive behavior is legendary. So my family and I have faith that he will be back in my home in a stable environment soon. I pray he stays safe until then.

Since she refuses to get the help she needs, I'm stepping off the stage, and basically giving her enough rope to hang herself. Then perhaps she will have learned enough about herself to finally do what needs to be done. It's a theory, anyway. 

Thanks again for your kindness. RR

[Only Human]

To answer your question: when my daughter learned I would no longer supervise her visitation with her oldest son, the look on her face was like thunder. The old saying comes to mind, "if looks could kill... .". Yeah, it was a scary moment and I removed myself quickly before anything could escalate.

Wise decision, your safety comes first. Was her response limited to the "look" or did she also react verbally? If yes, what did she say?

She's burned out both sides of her family with her actions. But, that's what is meant when it's said "choices have consequences".

I hear you on this point, RedRyder. A pwBPD is likely to engage in many impulsive and destructive behaviors, especially when it comes to relationships.

About three months ago, my DD25 told me, "I'm acting like a    to you because I can see that you're getting ready to kick me out. I'd rather be kicked out for a good reason." She also shared, when she was an adolescent, that when she feels like someone is getting ready to abandon her, she'll cut them off first.

So yes, her choice, her consequences. She doesn't know any other way to stop hurting so she does what she knows.

Do you think it could be the same for your D?

Praying for my youngest grandson's safety.

I worry for the little one.

Yes, children are the innocent victims here, so heartbreaking. Your GS is likely missing you and the stability he enjoyed while in your home. Are you in touch with him? Your daughter?

Stay with us here, RedRyder. As you well know, this is not the end 

~ OH

[RedRyder]

To answer your questions:

No, I saw the look on her face and closed the door quickly. I've been assaulted  before by her (several times) and had a strong feeling that where it was going. Been there, done that.

As far as her acting out and running off before someone does it to her first: that's a very real possibility. Or it could just as easily be she's not allowed to drink/drug in our house, so she goes elsewhere. Also could be she decided she doesn't like the rules she agreed to when she asked to live with us again. Hard to say, really, but it certainly could be an abandonment issue. I never know for sure. She's very impulsive. One minute she seems fine, the next minute she's freaked out. Very hard to read or predict... .……...

I saw him Christmas Day. I have court-ordered visitation with him established years ago. Yes, he was clear in telling me he missed us, wanted to live with us, and intended to tell his mother his feelings. Guess we'll see what happens with him persuading his mother.

BTW, he told me that he was told by his mother not to answer my call if I phoned him, which truly disgusts me. She's really pulled some awful stuff in the past, but I've never prevented her from phoning him. Super crappy on her part IMO.

Yes, I know this is not the end.   Probably not even the end of the beginning.   Thanks for "listening."

[Tinkerbelle]

Dear RedRyder.
You are in a good place. My family and I are in a varation of the same boat. Most people have no idea the financial ruin and the pain BPD’s family go through. I realize our DD is in pain but after years of offering help I am over it. As you are, I am trying to keep her children safe... Sending out prayers that your grandson is  safely returned to you soon.
Tinkerbelle

[RedRyder]

Thank you, Tinkerbelle, for your kind words.

Yes, most people have no clue about any of this. I guess they should count themselves lucky.

While the adults suffer, the little ones are most vulnerable and need a secure, stable and consistently loving environment. Maybe someday my daughter will accept treatment and get her life on track, but I have all but lost hope of that actually happening. So, the children are where I will place my time and effort as best I can.

Thank you for your prayers and I definitely will add you to mine.

Take care. RR

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Music Ace]

RR - brilliantly put.  Put your energy and time (and often $$) where it can be best 'spent' and most effective.  Recognizing that you have the potential to positively impact your grandchildren and can offer them stability and a good path - so wonderful.  I will be forever grateful that my udD28 had/has no children.  I can't imagine the lengths I would be driven to, to protect any child.  I don't think I could have the patience that many here demonstrate to follow protocol so that they don't jeopardize their chances to have authorities support their efforts to properly care for grandchildren and ensure they are safe.  I am humbled by your focus and understanding of what you can and can't do, and it fills my heart that you continue to work for the safety of those innocents. 

Thank you RR for starting my year on a positive.  May your efforts be well rewarded for your grandchildren.

Ace

[RedRyder]

Ace: my heart is grateful for your kind words and encouragement.

Much appreciation and many thanks! -RR

[Only Human]

Hi there,

Like Tinkerbelle and Music Ace, I admire your desire to protect your GS. I'm glad you've got visitation with him, supported by a court order.

It's terrible to hear that your DD may be alienating her son from you, that he's in the middle of this at all.

While the adults suffer, the little ones are most vulnerable and need a secure, stable and consistently loving environment.

You are spot on with this, RedRyder. Kids should be free to be kids, to be validated by those who care for them, and not made to feel like they have to pick sides.

A member here recommended a great book to me, The Power of Validation in Children. It's a quick, easy read (and very affordably priced!) and has helped me to help my GS4 feel safe in sharing his feelings with me, and has helped him feel more confident sharing his feelings with his mom, my DD25.

I've been recommending it to everyone I know who has kids, and I'm recommending it to you now =) I wish I knew this stuff when my kids were little.

How often do you have visits with your GS?

Take good care,

~ OH