We began another cycle Thursday night

[daze]

Hello,

My separated uBPDh told me last week the reason for the push pull for the last year has been that he thought we made a mistake by marrying too soon and that he now knows for certain that he wants to be with me, etc., etc. etc.

Well, he began another push cycle Thursday night.  This one seems to be triggered by his youngest son's birthday and having to talk with his exwife more than usual.  The triggering by kids and ex-wives gets pretty old.  I have kids and an ex too.  I guess the big difference is that I don't have BPD.

Bleh!  Not sure whether I'm any closer in my decision making.

Daze

[elessar]

I think she is starting another pull cycle with me from past couple of days.

Difference this time is (at least for me), now I am 100% sure she has BPD so I know what to expect. And that been helping me in not reacting to whatever she says and make it worse.

As long as your husband is undiagnosed and not getting treatment, it ain't changing. I think we all agree to that by now. Question is, if someone lives in denial... .   what do you do? I guess that is your question... .  

Do you really want to go through the cycle? Or lay it out to him as it is and then let him decide.

[daze]

Elessar -

Thanks for responding.  At least the pull is more enjoyable than the push.     H is telling me this isn't a push pull cycle.  Lol.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt last week, but it's pretty clear otherwise.

As long as your husband is undiagnosed and not getting treatment, it ain't changing. I think we all agree to that by now. Question is, if someone lives in denial... .   what do you do? I guess that is your question... .  

Do you really want to go through the cycle? Or lay it out to him as it is and then let him decide.

No, he's not officially diagnosed.  My T says h is definitely showing BPD behaviors and traits but that no diagnosis would be possible until he's quit drinking for at least six months and seeks therapy. 

I think I will lay it out to h again but it will have to be when we are talking again.  I guess that answers the question of whether I will go through another cycle.

Daze

[elessar]

being married to a BPD is so hard. many times i feel lucky about it. i complain about her turning down my proposals all the time and every time blaming me somehow for it (last night it was... .   you were too late)

I agree... . pull cycle is nice. but when u have knowledge, u know push is coming too. how long can u take it... .  

how soon did you two get married?

[daze]

We married after 9-10 months.  We have great chemistry and obviously love each other.  Now we've been together two years.  I agree with him that we married too quickly.  However, at that point, he didn't show signs of BPD and he didn't drink daily and we thought we knew what we wanted.  The obvious BPD symptoms and daily drinking started right after we married.  He did have some mood swings prior to marriage though.  My T says I intellectualized those.  He points out my defense mechanisms.   

You are probably fortunate that she didn't accept your proposal even though it was probably rough at the time. 

Yes, the push always follows the pull.  Maybe at some point the pull won't follow the push. 

[elessar]

9-10 months is not too bad. I mean my ex has already left someone she nearly got married to and that has been a while... .   yet it didnt even begin till 11 weeks back! ... .  

its really hard to know someone inside out until you are married to them. unless two people start living together for a year or two. because during dating period, everyone is in their best behavior. and i have read BPD symptoms truly comes out after marriage... .  

[NiceGuy83]

daze -

We have great chemistry and obviously love each other. 

This is something I think you need to question, whatever you decide to do.  If your husband has BPD, then he does not love you in the traditional manner. 

You should start here - https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

His 'love' is based on a need to control you.  The 'chemistry' is another control mechanism, as are the rages.

You have tolerated the rages, in the hope of cycling back to better behaviour more pleasing to you, but it will always cycle back again.  He will continue to seek revenge for perceived wrongs by hurting you.  Eventually, he will 'split' again, and leave or have an affair or both. 

The temptation you will face is to be there for him through it all.  You will want to say to yourself, 'If I am understanding enough, he will feel safe and get better.'  He won't, he'll get worse, because he'll find it more easy to manipulate you.  You will want to say to yourself, 'I can put up with all of that, as long as he keeps coming back.'  Why would you want to?  What is in it for you?

Your love is based on wanting to help someone in pain; a normal reaction.  Will he ever feel that way, or be able to support you the way a husband should?  Keep talking, and keep questioning everything.

[daze]

NiceGuy -

Thanks for bringing up some things I need to keep in mind.  Sometimes I forget that he has a need to control.

Daze

[crazylife]

My H once told me he felt like the only time he could control me was when I was having an orgasms... . since then he has figured out how to control another way. Withholding sex for 3 years... . which sucks. He tells me because I cheated on him ( by talking to other men-just talking in public) so yes they all seem to need to control us. For the most part I play into his control issues by telling him I let him make the decisions. I do because I don't care that he wants to pay bills etc. The when I put my foot down he will sometimes back off. Especially if I use skills. But things got much worse for us when we married. We had 5 good/great years before that.

[daze]

CrazyLife -

Withholding sex for three years is rough.  They try to control us because they have no control over how they feel and their emotions are all over the place and they don't know why.

I am somewhat concerned about the future - whether I can be attracted to healthy men. ?

Daze

[elessar]

morning daze!

I loved niceguy83's reply. It is true. It is so absolutely true. Even crazylife said the same thing. It is all about control. My ex was so controlling, I always complained to her about it. Controlling not towards only me, but everything around her. I told her it might be because her parents have been so controlling over her existence, because she has no control over her own life, that she has a need to control others around her.

Now I am realizing it has to be with BPD. Withholding sex for 3 years... .   wow.

I have a question to everyone (including myself)... .   why do we stay in this abuse? if someone else treated us this way... .   we would just walk out? so in any BPD forums or website the biggest problems nons have is not being able to let go. one reason being, a lot of married to BPDs. divorce is so common nowadays, yet somehow nons find it harder to leave their BPD spouses. Could it be because we know they are sick and we feel guilty leaving a sick person, rather than a healthy person who is bad for us?

And as you asked, are we so damaged that we need to find someone who needs fixing? I have asked myself that a lot. I had know this for 5 years before we got together. I had zero clue how broken she was inside. I never went to her wanting to fix her. I have had crushes in my life based on the woman's beauty and intelligence. Not sure if we are attracted to unhealthy people, or the fact that if we have someone who is unhealthy, we have a hard time letting go... .   am I making sense?

[NiceGuy83]

I am somewhat concerned about the future - whether I can be attracted to healthy men. ?

Oh man, I felt the same way last time I went through this, and am asking myself the same question now.  I've had two BPD relationships on the trot.  I guess we just need to recognise the signs early, and get out.  I may also need to question my own priorities.

Pleasuring my gf sexually was not just a private thing to me.  I enjoyed the fact that house-mates could hear her through the walls.  It boosted my self-esteem no end.  I also enjoyed the fact that I considered her so attractive.  I put these things above whether I could trust her not to emotionally abuse me. 

I don't have the answer to your question yet either, which is one of the reasons I am here. 

[daze]

Hi Elessar and Nice Guy!

Good question: why do we put up with the abuse?  I think a lot of it is guilt and worry that the pwBPD won't be able to handle life.  Can you imagine coparenting with a relatively low functioning pwBPD who tried to turn the kids against you and threatens to kill your new wife so you can get back together?  There is at least one non stepmom on here who lives with that because she loves her husband and his kids.

As far as control goes, I guess codependents want some level of control too.

It's been a long weekend!  Glad it's a new week!

Daze

[elessar]

Yup, thats why we do it. We feel guilty that they can't take care of themselves and they need someone who understands their BPD-ness.

[crazylife]

I DO NOT FEEL GUILTY. My pwBPD has insinuated himself into every part of my family, parents,  aunts, uncles, siblings, and children. He runs my dad's business. I allowed him to go thru ALL  my money. I allowed him to use  my name, my credit, and bank accounts  to open a business that did not make it. As a result of my personal choices I have a $33K tax lien on me. I am at the end of my rope on giving... .   oh and my house too... .   I am finally wising up and drawing the line at paying off his tax lien in my name while he continues to make money off my family. And  then I have been rewarded with no sex in 3 years. This is what a decade with BPD has done  to   me. I too was in love and forgiving initially. Things were good. I guess I just dont have it in me to love anyone  that much.  And I hope I never do again. I applaud those of you who feel like you will have a love life again. I cannot even fathom being in a relationship ever  again. I would like to find a female roommate that also likes dogs and  just  be great friends. I have men friends but after this experience, I dont ever see myself involved with another man. And I am quite able to separate the mental illness from the person,learned to do that with my autistic son. Despite all this and because of all this  I may never get to leave.

[NiceGuy83]

crazylife

Yikes!  Not all relationships are like this.  It's up to you if you will feel able to trust again, and that might take time.  The same is true of deciding whether to stay or leave.  I for one will love again, I'm sure.  I just need to look at myself first and try to make sure I am ready, but I'm sure I can be.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide!

[elessar]

wow crazylife, i am so sorry to hear your story.

man sometimes we get caught up in the pain of the pwBPD that we forget how much they destroy us too. as much pain as I am in, I feel I lucked out not getting married to her... .  

I hope you find companionship. Whenever you are ready. Even if it is not love. I wish you the very best!

[crazylife]

Thanks. I hope everyone here finds a healthy  relationship. Just be careful and dont love away your life and you money. I have dogs, they love me unconditionally, never yell, never treat me badly, are always happy to see me and I am very content with that.

[elessar]

that is exactly why i can't wait to get a dog! seriously, exact reason.

and so true about money too. i am a broke-ass grad student. . yet i must have spent a few grand on her. i never regretted it. but my bank balance is half or even less and in the end i have nothing to show for it but misery.

[daze]

Yes! The other reason people stay in r/s with pwBPD is because they can't break out at this moment - usually due to financial or parenting issues.  They would if they could but they can't. 

CrazyLife, this really sucks!

Yes, dogs are perfect for unconditional love.  My little dog is right here next to me.