Why is it all about us changing for the relationship?

[Itsumi]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger and not even remotely attempt to reign in these emotions even though she knows she is not practicing mindfulness. Yesterday I woke up to find she had flat out disappeared without a word to me or our two young children. When I finally reach her she tells me she is at a friends house because she needs peace from our conflicts. I was ASLEEP how was I causing conflict. To make things worse one of her behaviors that I really have a problem with is acting out sexually, so I am just to believe her when she finally returns and tells me nothing happened. It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

I hear you. When we went to marriage T, the T turned it all on me and what I need to do. I am willing to look at myself and do what I need to do, but sometimes I think when is it your turn to be the one to do something?

The problem is that we can't make them do anything. Their externalizing behavior makes them very unaware of the effect it has on others. People usually don't change unless they are uncomfortable enough to change. While pwBPD are uncomfortable with themselves, their externalizing and blaming others keeps them from taking responsibility for themselves.

With my H, it always came down to that he is the way he is, take it or leave it. I had to change to be able to be with him and not be too emotionally affected by it. This isn't easy.

Then it comes down to what would we tolerate?

[ColdEthyl]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger and not even remotely attempt to reign in these emotions even though she knows she is not practicing mindfulness. Yesterday I woke up to find she had flat out disappeared without a word to me or our two young children. When I finally reach her she tells me she is at a friends house because she needs peace from our conflicts. I was ASLEEP how was I causing conflict. To make things worse one of her behaviors that I really have a problem with is acting out sexually, so I am just to believe her when she finally returns and tells me nothing happened. It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

We are the stronger ones. We are the ones more capable of change. When we change... .they change.

We all understand how you feel about not being able to express your anger with your pwBPD. The key here is learning how to communicate it to her in a productive manner. Communicating with a pwBPD is like a different language. We have to learn how to say it so they understand, and they do not go into rages.

Have you had any luck using some the tools here on this site? How does SET work with her?

[anxiety5]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger and not even remotely attempt to reign in these emotions even though she knows she is not practicing mindfulness. Yesterday I woke up to find she had flat out disappeared without a word to me or our two young children. When I finally reach her she tells me she is at a friends house because she needs peace from our conflicts. I was ASLEEP how was I causing conflict. To make things worse one of her behaviors that I really have a problem with is acting out sexually, so I am just to believe her when she finally returns and tells me nothing happened. It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

The spiral goes down and it will drag you to the depths of hell. It's about us changing because we are the only one's who possess the introspective ability to understand cognitively how to grow. You sound like you feel trapped. Why? Part of us changing, in my case meant I stopped focusing on her, and starting asking myself: Is this what I want life to be like? Does arguing with her ever resolve anything? Then why do it? Do I deserve this abuse and betrayal? Am I even happy? Do I even love her anymore?

I stopped loving her. She treated me like garbage. Whatever mistakes I made I paid for them and then some. I shouldn't be the only person trying. You can't change someone else who doesn't want to change. So I shifted to a mode of rapid acceptance. She is never going to be how she was. We will not have a fairy tale ending. I may die from this stress if I get in deeper in the future. This isn't what I want out of life. She does not control me. And I quit.

Furthermore, I detached. Furthermore I don't want ANY relationship with her because even a friendship is one sided and unfulfilling, that's why they don't have any long term friends.

So I cut her off, I felt the pain, I allowed myself to feel the pain. And I forgave myself for everything because I had good intentions and I had no regret. I did everything I could to make things better, but it didn't help and never would have gotten better.

You live once. You are a prisoner by choice. I was driven by fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of being alone. Fear that I couldn't find someone else. Fear of her being with someone else.

It's all irrational.

It's a toxic relationship and you need to get out why there is any of YOU left. 

[mywifecrazy]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger and not even remotely attempt to reign in these emotions even though she knows she is not practicing mindfulness. Yesterday I woke up to find she had flat out disappeared without a word to me or our two young children. When I finally reach her she tells me she is at a friends house because she needs peace from our conflicts. I was ASLEEP how was I causing conflict. To make things worse one of her behaviors that I really have a problem with is acting out sexually, so I am just to believe her when she finally returns and tells me nothing happened. It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

We are the stronger ones. We are the ones more capable of change. When we change... .they change.

We all understand how you feel about not being able to express your anger with your pwBPD. The key here is learning how to communicate it to her in a productive manner. Communicating with a pwBPD is like a different language. We have to learn how to say it so they understand, and they do not go into rages.

Have you had any luck using some the tools here on this site? How does SET work with her?

Please don't take this the wrong way I Just don't understand this concept. What is this man supposed to do just accept that his wife is screwing around on him? To me that seems like enabling bad behavior. Wouldn't it be better for him to call her out on her actions and for him to put up a healthy boundary as her being with other men is unacceptable? Clearly it's not him that needs to change. It's her that needs to seek professional help and it's her that must change her destructive behaviors not only destructive to him and his kids but also,destructive to her. It just seems to be that BPD's emotionally act out like children. As adults what do we do when Children act out? Do we let them do whatever they want and walk all over us or do we teach them through firm boundaries that certain behaviors will not be tolerated?

Again nothing personal I'm just trying to understand all of this. I'm trying to know how to best deal with my BPD but in a divorced setting and co-parent. It's not easy because I now realize her actions are very childish and left to her own devices she hurts everyone around her. Me, her kids, her Mom, etc.

I appreciate all the comments on is thread as they are very helpful.

MWC... .

PS. Itsumi. I know how you feel. I came home once and found my uBPDxw (when we were married) had left the house and left my kids alone. I found her across the street in bed with my neighbor... .I wouldn't take anything yours says at face value. I'm not saying that yours is doing the same thing but for your own sanity I would look into it and confirm everything!

[ColdEthyl]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger and not even remotely attempt to reign in these emotions even though she knows she is not practicing mindfulness. Yesterday I woke up to find she had flat out disappeared without a word to me or our two young children. When I finally reach her she tells me she is at a friends house because she needs peace from our conflicts. I was ASLEEP how was I causing conflict. To make things worse one of her behaviors that I really have a problem with is acting out sexually, so I am just to believe her when she finally returns and tells me nothing happened. It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

The spiral goes down and it will drag you to the depths of hell. It's about us changing because we are the only one's who possess the introspective ability to understand cognitively how to grow. You sound like you feel trapped. Why? Part of us changing, in my case meant I stopped focusing on her, and starting asking myself: Is this what I want life to be like? Does arguing with her ever resolve anything? Then why do it? Do I deserve this abuse and betrayal? Am I even happy? Do I even love her anymore?

I stopped loving her. She treated me like garbage. Whatever mistakes I made I paid for them and then some. I shouldn't be the only person trying. You can't change someone else who doesn't want to change. So I shifted to a mode of rapid acceptance. She is never going to be how she was. We will not have a fairy tale ending. I may die from this stress if I get in deeper in the future. This isn't what I want out of life. She does not control me. And I quit.

Furthermore, I detached. Furthermore I don't want ANY relationship with her because even a friendship is one sided and unfulfilling, that's why they don't have any long term friends.

So I cut her off, I felt the pain, I allowed myself to feel the pain. And I forgave myself for everything because I had good intentions and I had no regret. I did everything I could to make things better, but it didn't help and never would have gotten better.

You live once. You are a prisoner by choice. I was driven by fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of being alone. Fear that I couldn't find someone else. Fear of her being with someone else.

It's all irrational.

It's a toxic relationship and you need to get out why there is any of YOU left. 

Could we please try not to tell people here what they should and shouldn't do, this board is for people who are trying to work on their relationships. There are other boards for people who have left or are undecided. I'm not trying to be rude, and if I offend you I'm sorry, but we are all here trying to learn and grow. Leaving is personal decision.

@mywifeiscrazy No, of course not. Why would you even think I meant that? His questions was why we were the ones that needed to change and not them. That's how I answered.

Everyone should have their own boundaries of what they will and will not accept. I personally would not accept any infidelity. It's a boundary for me and he knows it. There are tools on this site to help us learn to enforce those boundaries.

pwBPD DO act out like children emotionally. That would be the entire POINT of BPD. Hence why you cannot expect a person with a stalled emotional growth to behave like a rational adult... .hence the mental illness.

Furthermore, BPD is a spectrum disorder. Not every pwBPD have the same levels oh behaviors or traits. Everyone has to decide for themselves where they want to go for their relationships... .if they want to stay or to leave. On this board, we simply try to help those who wish to stay and improve.

[braveSun]

Yesterday I woke up to find she had flat out disappeared without a word to me or our two young children.

 Itsumi, I am sorry that you are going through this patch with your wife w BPD...


Is it the first time she has those episodes? Is it something new to you?

The experience of coming into direct contact with mental illness can feel very overwhelming. Like unfair. Like a harsh reality.

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger

It looks like you might need some help with the children, maybe for a few hours, just for taking a bit of time out for yourself, and let your emotions come out a bit. Even though, like you said, you are aware of her condition, sometimes, it takes a while for the partner to fully register what it means, emotionally. It certainly did for me.

Try to take a step in the direction of caring for yourself in a gentle way. Anger is a natural emotion in the face of losses, and you might be in a place where you are seeing that things will need some changes.

Take your time, and allow yourself some space. With and without your children if you can. I found the #3 lesson on the right side "The Lessons" to be helpful for lessening the stress level to begin with.

[waverider]

We can only directly change us. This changes the relationship dynamics which hopefully create a healthier environment which increases the chances of influencing a change in them.

This may happen, it may not. It is up to us to then once we have cleared up our side and stopped making it worse than to decide whether we can live with it, or not. That is an unknown until we have done our bit.

Getting hung up on "fairness' stops us changing, which in turn stops anything changing.

All may be lost, but we do not yet know it, or all may be repairable yet from where we are now seem irreparable. We hear all versions of this journey from members who have posted here.

The only thing you can know for sure is that you cannot predict the journey until you are well down the path. It is up to us to take the first step and see where it leads. Its the best we can do, there are no guarantees.

[123Phoebe]

Why is it all about us changing for the relationship?  Good question, Itsumi!

Unless the relationship we're in now is our very first relationship, well then, we also have a trail of failed relationships behind us.  Why didn't those work out?

Conflicting or possibly unknown values?

Questionable boundaries?

Low self-esteem?

Poor communication?

(insert whatever else... .)

This relationship pretty much blew all of that out in the open.  Enough to seek help and answers.  For me anyway, I didn't have a very good relationship with myself and "needed" to change that.

The Lessons really help

[mywifecrazy]

 

I'm not trying to be rude, and if I offend you I'm sorry, but we are all here trying to learn and grow. Leaving is personal decision.

@mywifeiscrazy No, of course not. Why would you even think I meant that? His questions was why we were the ones that needed to change and not them. That's how I answered.

Everyone should have their own boundaries of what they will and will not accept. I personally would not accept any infidelity. It's a boundary for me and he knows it. There are tools on this site to help us learn to enforce those boundaries.

pwBPD DO act out like children emotionally. That would be the entire POINT of BPD. Hence why you cannot expect a person with a stalled emotional growth to behave like a rational adult... .hence the mental illness.

Furthermore, BPD is a spectrum disorder. Not every pwBPD have the same levels oh behaviors or traits. Everyone has to decide for themselves where they want to go for their relationships... .if they want to stay or to leave. On this board, we simply try to help those who wish to stay and improve.

Absolutely NO offense taken. Like I said I find this thread interesting as I'm TRYING to learn how to deal with my uBPDxw in a healthy way but finding it very difficult as her behaviors continue to hurt my kids and she's unwilling to look inward. I didn't discover she had BPD until the marriage was over.

For me anyway, I didn't have a very good relationship with myself and "needed" to change that.

This is the best lesson I learned about myself post marriage to uBPDxw. This is what I DO understand. Nobody but myself, not even a toxic relationship can make me unhappy or angry unless I CHOOSE to let it affect me that way. If I get into another relationship and it's unhealthy it's my fault because I didn't have healthy boundaries. I'm solely responsible for my happiness and I will never hand that power over to anyone else ever again.

Thanks again for these responses and again No Offense taken. I consider it a healthy exchange of ideas. If I offended or triggered anyone I sincerely apologize!

MWC... .

[Cat Familiar]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? I just keep bottling up or ignoring my emotions and anytime I slip and let a little bit of emotion out she will go into a spiral of either depression or anger and not even remotely attempt to reign in these emotions even though she knows she is not practicing mindfulness... .It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

Itsumi, I really feel for you and just a few months ago, when I discovered this site, I too was overwhelmed by anger. You have every right to feel angry as your wife is breaking your marriage vows (I'm assuming that fidelity was one of them).

My ex-husband also played free and loose with our vows and was a serial cheater. I endured this for many years (and that's probably why I have less patience with my current husband--and he isn't cheating!) I know how unimaginably painful it is to have a partner who does this.

But to get back to anger. As you know, expressing it to her is of no value and causes more problems than it helps you through its expression. So I suggest finding a supportive friend, a therapist or post about it here.

I found that much like the stages of grief, I went through anger, self-pity, depression, more anger, numbness, and I'm finally approaching acceptance.

It truly is frustrating to not be able to have a heart-to-heart communication with the one we love in the same way we could if they didn't have this mental illness. But that is the fact. For whatever reason, we have chosen to be with them and we must learn how to communicate in a different way. It's almost like we've married someone who doesn't speak our native language.

Part of what has helped me develop more compassion (which is super hard when they're doing unbelievably horrid behaviors) is to realize that they're experiencing so much internal pain and these acting out behaviors help mitigate it momentarily--of course then later, they just add to their internal pain and guilt.

Anyway, I'm very sorry that you're dealing with this, particularly with young children. My heart goes out to you.  

[MissyM]

When I finally reach her she tells me she is at a friends house because she needs peace from our conflicts. I was ASLEEP how was I causing conflict. To make things worse one of her behaviors that I really have a problem with is acting out sexually, so I am just to believe her when she finally returns and tells me nothing happened. It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

First off,  

Sorry you are in this situation.  Changing ourselves is the only way out of the madness.  I am also married to a BPD that is a sex addict.  He is now in recovery but the road was definitely not smooth.  Changing ourselves includes boundaries, it does not include sticking around while our spouses treat us abusively.  It all takes time and I always recommend people be gentle with themselves.

[ColdEthyl]

 

I'm not trying to be rude, and if I offend you I'm sorry, but we are all here trying to learn and grow. Leaving is personal decision.

@mywifeiscrazy No, of course not. Why would you even think I meant that? His questions was why we were the ones that needed to change and not them. That's how I answered.

Everyone should have their own boundaries of what they will and will not accept. I personally would not accept any infidelity. It's a boundary for me and he knows it. There are tools on this site to help us learn to enforce those boundaries.

pwBPD DO act out like children emotionally. That would be the entire POINT of BPD. Hence why you cannot expect a person with a stalled emotional growth to behave like a rational adult... .hence the mental illness.

Furthermore, BPD is a spectrum disorder. Not every pwBPD have the same levels oh behaviors or traits. Everyone has to decide for themselves where they want to go for their relationships... .if they want to stay or to leave. On this board, we simply try to help those who wish to stay and improve.

Absolutely NO offense taken. Like I said I find this thread interesting as I'm TRYING to learn how to deal with my uBPDxw in a healthy way but finding it very difficult as her behaviors continue to hurt my kids and she's unwilling to look inward. I didn't discover she had BPD until the marriage was over.

For me anyway, I didn't have a very good relationship with myself and "needed" to change that.

This is the best lesson I learned about myself post marriage to uBPDxw. This is what I DO understand. Nobody but myself, not even a toxic relationship can make me unhappy or angry unless I CHOOSE to let it affect me that way. If I get into another relationship and it's unhealthy it's my fault because I didn't have healthy boundaries. I'm solely responsible for my happiness and I will never hand that power over to anyone else ever again.

Thanks again for these responses and again No Offense taken. I consider it a healthy exchange of ideas. If I offended or triggered anyone I sincerely apologize!

MWC... .

I'm blunt and don't come off right sometimes. It reminds me of what my Apserger's S10 said to his sister last night. He was playing a video game and she came in the room and he said to her "Man, every time I'm having fun you come in here and ruin it" and she said to him "Well I'm sorry I ruined your life!" and she went to her room. HE was crying. When I asked him what was going on, he told me what she said and it hurt his feelings. When I asked her, she told me what he said. When I asked my son about what he said to his sister first he said... ."But I said it nicely".

Poor kid. There's no way in the world to say that nicely. I suppose my communication skills are similar... .because I totally do not mean to be rude but I do come off that way sometime

After seeing the way everyone else replied... .I apologize. They had a lot better replies than I did

[vortex of confusion]

I fully understand that my wife has a mental illness and I'm all for being supportive. But at what point are you allowed to be truly angry? ... .It feels like the partners get stuck with trying over and over to save our relationships all while the BPD in our lives do whatever they like. Feel like I'm drowning and my wife is throwing bricks instead of a life preserver.

You are allowed to be fully angry RIGHT NOW! It is okay to be angry. The tricky part is finding ways to express that anger in ways that are not going to make the situation worse and are not going to hurt other people. That is where some of the tools in the lessons are helpful.

I used to get so frustrated because he would have all of these feelings and reactions and anger yet it felt like I was supposed to just sit there and take it. If I would express my anger and my hurt, it turned into an ugly mess so I would withdraw and eventually learned to just keep my mouth shut. That didn't work either because I became a walking ball of anger and resentment and would let it out through passive aggressive behaviors. I made the situation worse because I started mirroring his reactions because I didn't know what else to do. If he was angry, I was going to be angry. Darn it, it was MY turn! Didn't help any at all.

I want to send you a great big hug.   I have felt that drowning feeling so many times. And when I would reach out to him, it felt like he was throwing bricks at me. I think I even told him that one time. It didn't change anything at all. It fell on deaf ears. I am trying to get myself together so that I can set some boundaries around what I will and won't accept. I am still in the figuring it out stage. I have been on this site about 6 months now. Things are still a mess but I at least feel a little more hopeful because at least the conflict has diminished greatly. I think there is a lesson on this board or one of the others called "Stop the bleeding". I found that really helpful. Before anything at all can improve, I have to figure out how the heck to step off the roller coaster. It isn't easy that is for sure.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not changing myself for my marriage.

I'm changing myself because I want to be a better person and live in a better way than I did before. The conflict and challenges in my marriage do a fantastic job of showing me the areas I still have work to do!

And the really good thing about these changes I'm making is that if I have a successful marriage (because my wife makes good changes as well), I win. And if I leave my marriage... .I still take my better self out into the world as a single guy. Either way I win.

And for today, part of being the person I want to see in the mirror tomorrow morning is being somebody who does put effort out to be kind and loving toward my wife, and honors the commitment I made to her over 20 years ago.

[MissyM]

And the really good thing about these changes I'm making is that if I have a successful marriage (because my wife makes good changes as well), I win. And if I leave my marriage... .I still take my better self out into the world as a single guy. Either way I win.

Absolutely!