Forgiveness

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all, haven't been around for some time and the last time I posted I didn't think I would ever again. Anyway...

I saw her in person a couple of months back, and at the time I thought I was done with all of this. I didn't want her back and there was absolutely 0 emotion or attraction when we talked.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I had a dream about her a few nights ago. I wanted to see her face again so I viewed her profile on FB. Saw a picture of her with the new bf. They seem happy. He seems happy. It bothers me, I feel like that should be ME in the picture, not him. My happiness was taken from me and I didn't do anything to deserve it. I feel more deserving than him, I did more than enough to prove myself to her... I have a hole in my chest since, and everything feels surreal and strange. Depressing perhaps.

I've since changed my mind, I think it is possible to be happy with a BPD. I know it is. These relationships are amazing and no woman compares to her. It takes strong ppl to date them but I believe that if you don't let your insecurities get in that way you'll both be fine.

So, forgiving her made me remember the good in her as well. It all came rushing back. It's causing me so much pain at the same time. Is forgiveness worth it then? Is it not Biblical? The right thing to do? Is this what I get for doing so? More pain? Will I forever be stuck in this hell?

[bAlex]

Hi all, haven't been around for some time and the last time I posted I didn't think I would ever again. Anyway...

I saw her in person a couple of months back, and at the time I thought I was done with all of this. I didn't want her back and there was absolutely 0 emotion or attraction when we talked.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I had a dream about her a few nights ago. I wanted to see her face again so I viewed her profile on FB. Saw a picture of her with the new bf. They seem happy. He seems happy. It bothers me, I feel like that should be ME in the picture, not him. My happiness was taken from me and I didn't do anything to deserve it. I feel more deserving than him, I did more than enough to prove myself to her... I have a hole in my chest since, and everything feels surreal and strange. Depressing perhaps.

I've since changed my mind, I think it is possible to be happy with a BPD. I know it is. These relationships are amazing and no woman compares to her. It takes strong ppl to date them but I believe that if you don't let your insecurities get in that way you'll both be fine.

So, forgiving her made me remember the good in her as well. It all came rushing back. It's causing me so much pain at the same time. Is forgiveness worth it then? Is it not Biblical? The right thing to do? Is this what I get for doing so? More pain? Will I forever be stuck in this hell?

[C.Stein]

I've since changed my mind, I think it is possible to be happy with a BPD. I know it is. These relationships are amazing and no woman compares to her. It takes strong ppl to date them but I believe that if you don't let your insecurities get in that way you'll both be fine.

I can understand why you feel this way.  I feel this way at times too, but the reality is the relationship is strained at best and will most likely be very emotionally draining.  Personally I wouldn't define this as happiness even if at times there will be happiness.

Take some time to read through some of the improving board threads.  It does take an amazingly strong, emotionally centered, non-reactive, balanced and grounded person to weather the turmoil and chaos that can (and probably will) occur in a relationship with a borderline.  What you will read there is the reality of being in a relationship with a borderline.

So, forgiving her made me remember the good in her as well. It all came rushing back. It's causing me so much pain at the same time. Is forgiveness worth it then? Is it not Biblical? The right thing to do? Is this what I get for doing so? More pain? Will I forever be stuck in this hell?

Forgiving does not mean forgetting or excusing.  It means you no longer want to hold onto the anger, hate, resentment, etc... .  These emotions destroy you and to truly move on from this painful experience you need to let them go.   There is nothing wrong with remember the good and forgiving the bad, just never ever forget what happened that got you here and try to find a way to learn and grow as a person from it.

Everything fades with time, so will this.  Be strong.   

[bAlex]

I've since changed my mind, I think it is possible to be happy with a BPD. I know it is. These relationships are amazing and no woman compares to her. It takes strong ppl to date them but I believe that if you don't let your insecurities get in that way you'll both be fine.

I can understand why you feel this way.  I feel this way at times too, but the reality is the relationship is strained at best and will most likely be very emotionally draining.  Personally I wouldn't define this as happiness even if at times there will be happiness.

Take some time to read through some of the improving board threads.  It does take an amazingly strong, emotionally centered, non-reactive, balanced and grounded person to weather the turmoil and chaos that can (and probably will) occur in a relationship with a borderline.  What you will read there is the reality of being in a relationship with a borderline.

So, forgiving her made me remember the good in her as well. It all came rushing back. It's causing me so much pain at the same time. Is forgiveness worth it then? Is it not Biblical? The right thing to do? Is this what I get for doing so? More pain? Will I forever be stuck in this hell?

Forgiving does not mean forgetting or excusing.  It means you no longer want to hold onto the anger, hate, resentment, etc... .  These emotions destroy you and to truly move on from this painful experience you need to let them go.   There is nothing wrong with remember the good and forgiving the bad, just never ever forget what happened that got you here and try to find a way to learn and grow as a person from it.

Everything fades with time, so will this.  Be strong.   

Thanks but it's been too damn long. This isn't going away. The ppl I meet and date just can't give me the same feeling. And I've since stopped dating for fear of repeating the cycle and harming them.

I'm so fed up with feeling this way and living with this. I thought I was fine, I'm not. It's like a chronic illness and no amount of trying on my part is making any of his any better.

[C.Stein]

So do you think your ex, the person that put you in this place to begin with, is going to heal you?  This is an issue only you can resolve and is likely a large part of why you have had no success dating ... .because you aren't ready to date.

Of course the people you meet/date can't give you the same feeling ... .because they aren't her.  And why would you want that anyway?  One of the big reasons you felt that way is because of the disorder and how it manifests itself.  That feeling is not sustainable and never will be.  Why would you be looking for this from someone else?

[bAlex]

So do you think your ex, the person that put you in this place to begin with, is going to heal you?  This is an issue only you can resolve and is likely a large part of why you have had no success dating ... .because you aren't ready to date.

Of course the people you meet/date can't give you the same feeling ... .because they aren't her.  And why would you want that anyway?  One of the big reasons you felt that way is because of the disorder and how it manifests itself.  That feeling is not sustainable and never will be.  Why would you be looking for this from someone else?

I'm not seeking the dysfunction. I honestly loved her. I'm seeking the intense attraction. That attraction was REAL, if it was because of the disorder or not, it's still real. It exists. And in the end isn't that why ppl pursue eachother?

[C.Stein]

I'm not seeking the dysfunction. I honestly loved her. I'm seeking the intense attraction. That attraction was REAL, if it was because of the disorder or not, it's still real. It exists. And in the end isn't that why ppl pursue eachother?

Believe me, I get it ... .we all get it.  I formed a bond with my ex like no other woman in my life.  I miss that bond, I want it back ... .it was real for me, the most intimate and intense bond I have ever felt.  The problem here is the disorder was the cause for the intense attraction and what was real for me wasn't real for my ex, at least not in the same way.   Unfortunately I was easily replaced with no apparent guilt or remorse ... .so what does that say about the bond from her perspective?

In the end most people want a healthy relationship that is built on mutual trust, caring, respect and love ... .not sexual attraction.  Sex is icing on the cake, not the cake itself.   Take sex off the table for a moment and honestly ask yourself if the intense attraction you feel for her is still there ... .and what specifically intensely attracts you to her (not looks or sex).

[StopMeThinkimg]

bAlex, I was in your boat until very recently. I couldn't get her out of my head and I'd been good for a few months whilst she terrorized me. Then all of a sudden it went calm and I started thinking.

I believe I was like this because I thought about the good bits of the relationship (the sex, the intensity) and forgot about the bad times (the suicide threats, the posting of lies about me on the Internet). And also because I thought it was over and couldn't have her back.

It's natural my friend, to want what we can't have.

Now, push forward a few weeks and see my post from the other day about her wanting to meet up. All of a sudden she's in reach, perhaps I could have her back? Let me tell you the bad feelings come flooding back then and you realize what you really want, which isn't her.

Which doesn't really help you now, but you have to push through it, because it'll fade and you will find someone better.

Listen to me today, today I am strong, tomorrow I may be back in your shoes, as this horrible disorder makes happen to us all... .

[WoundedBibi]

So do you think your ex, the person that put you in this place to begin with, is going to heal you?  This is an issue only you can resolve and is likely a large part of why you have had no success dating ... .because you aren't ready to date.

Of course the people you meet/date can't give you the same feeling ... .because they aren't her.  And why would you want that anyway?  One of the big reasons you felt that way is because of the disorder and how it manifests itself.  That feeling is not sustainable and never will be.  Why would you be looking for this from someone else?

I'm not seeking the dysfunction. I honestly loved her. I'm seeking the intense attraction. That attraction was REAL, if it was because of the disorder or not, it's still real. It exists. And in the end isn't that why ppl pursue eachother?

Yes people pursue each other because they are attracted to each other. Most of why we are attracted happens on a subconscious level.

You might not seek the dysfunction but this level of attraction, feeling someone is your soulmate, your other half, like you have known each other for ever and this is who you were missing your whole life before you met them, will only happen for you with another person with a PD. And whether you get back with your ex or seek out (subconsciously) another pwBPD everything you loved about your relationship will be there and everything you hated about it will be there. There are no happy endings in relationships with pw a PD as you will always be in pain apart from the occasional moment you are painted fully white and put on a pedestal. And the more often you recycle the less white you will be painted. It will become an off white instead of bright white. And then cream. And then dark cream. And so on.

If you don't get recycled by your ex and 'just move on' looking for the next high of such an incredible attraction you will find it. And it will be a pw a PD (perhaps NPD this time or OCPD) and the relationship will be more traumatic and troubled and the disorder will be more severe than this time. Believe me, I have done it more than once. I know I need to heal myself now before the next one I meet is so disturbed he will kill me.

Instead of seeking another pw a PD you could also heal yourself and become someone that is attracted to other people that are whole.

[bAlex]

Yes people pursue each other because they are attracted to each other. Most of why we are attracted happens on a subconscious level.

You might not seek the dysfunction but this level of attraction, feeling someone is your soulmate, your other half, like you have known each other for ever and this is who you were missing your whole life before you met them, will only happen for you with another person with a PD. And whether you get back with your ex or seek out (subconsciously) another pwBPD everything you loved about your relationship will be there and everything you hated about it will be there. There are no happy endings in relationships with pw a PD as you will always be in pain apart from the occasional moment you are painted fully white and put on a pedestal. And the more often you recycle the less white you will be painted. It will become an off white instead of bright white. And then cream. And then dark cream. And so on.

If you don't get recycled by your ex and 'just move on' looking for the next high of such an incredible attraction you will find it. And it will be a pw a PD (perhaps NPD this time or OCPD) and the relationship will be more traumatic and troubled and the disorder will be more severe than this time. Believe me, I have done it more than once. I know I need to heal myself now before the next one I meet is so disturbed he will kill me.

Instead of seeking another pw a PD you could also heal yourself and become someone that is attracted to other people that are whole.

What if I told you that I know for a fact that, disorder aside, I was attracted to her as a person? It's not so hard to believe. BPD or not, she's still a girl, a human. I forgave most of her faults, looked past all the bad stuff and loved the person she really is. The rest was just noise, shallow stuff that doesn't really define or condemn her as a person. I believe hurt caused this in them and it can work if you're mentally strong. There were no deal breakers also. Just small things that play on your insecurities, and if you as a man, leave it unchecked and let it get to you you end up here. All women do this, BPD just does it to the max.

[Icanteven]

Take sex off the table for a moment and honestly ask yourself if the intense attraction you feel for her is still there ... .and what specifically intensely attracts you to her (not looks or sex).

Ding ding ding! This is why my wife and I are estranged:  she stopped putting any effort into our marriage, I wanted more than her beauty and sex, and when I had the "love is an action verb" conversation with her finally all hell broke loose.

Who is going to make me feel like she did again? Don't know, but realizing with each passing day that I deserve more than a good lay out of life.

[bAlex]

I'm not seeking the dysfunction. I honestly loved her. I'm seeking the intense attraction. That attraction was REAL, if it was because of the disorder or not, it's still real. It exists. And in the end isn't that why ppl pursue eachother?

Believe me, I get it ... .we all get it.  I formed a bond with my ex like no other woman in my life.  I miss that bond, I want it back ... .it was real for me, the most intimate and intense bond I have ever felt.  The problem here is the disorder was the cause for the intense attraction and what was real for me wasn't real for my ex, at least not in the same way.   Unfortunately I was easily replaced with no apparent guilt or remorse ... .so what does that say about the bond from her perspective?

In the end most people want a healthy relationship that is built on mutual trust, caring, respect and love ... .not sexual attraction.  Sex is icing on the cake, not the cake itself.   Take sex off the table for a moment and honestly ask yourself if the intense attraction you feel for her is still there ... .and what specifically intensely attracts you to her (not looks or sex).

It's not just sexual attraction, or looks. It's much more... hard to explain... but if you never had such an intense bond with anyone else why would you settle for less? I just can't do it.

[WoundedBibi]

Yes people pursue each other because they are attracted to each other. Most of why we are attracted happens on a subconscious level.

You might not seek the dysfunction but this level of attraction, feeling someone is your soulmate, your other half, like you have known each other for ever and this is who you were missing your whole life before you met them, will only happen for you with another person with a PD. And whether you get back with your ex or seek out (subconsciously) another pwBPD everything you loved about your relationship will be there and everything you hated about it will be there. There are no happy endings in relationships with pw a PD as you will always be in pain apart from the occasional moment you are painted fully white and put on a pedestal. And the more often you recycle the less white you will be painted. It will become an off white instead of bright white. And then cream. And then dark cream. And so on.

If you don't get recycled by your ex and 'just move on' looking for the next high of such an incredible attraction you will find it. And it will be a pw a PD (perhaps NPD this time or OCPD) and the relationship will be more traumatic and troubled and the disorder will be more severe than this time. Believe me, I have done it more than once. I know I need to heal myself now before the next one I meet is so disturbed he will kill me.

Instead of seeking another pw a PD you could also heal yourself and become someone that is attracted to other people that are whole.

What if I told you that I know for a fact that, disorder aside, I was attracted to her as a person? It's not so hard to believe. BPD or not, she's still a girl, a human. I forgave most of her faults, looked past all the bad stuff and loved the person she really is. The rest was just noise, shallow stuff that doesn't really define or condemn her as a person. I believe hurt caused this in them and it can work if you're mentally strong. There were no deal breakers also. Just small things that play on your insecurities,

I was attracted to my ex as a person too. Forgiving the faults and the bad stuff. Until it got too much.

Yes their behaviour is caused by hurt they suffered from as small children. But if you read this board you will learn it cannot work no matter how strong you are. Because there will always be a moment in life you need to be able to lean on your partner. If someone dies for example. And you cannot lean on a pwBPD.

Also you seem to contradict yourself; if there were no deal breakers and just small things what was there you needed to forgive or bad things to look past?

and if you as a man, leave it unchecked and let it get to you you end up here. All women do this, BPD just does it to the max.

You have a very strange view on women.

[Invictus01]

Hi all, haven't been around for some time and the last time I posted I didn't think I would ever again. Anyway...

I saw her in person a couple of months back, and at the time I thought I was done with all of this. I didn't want her back and there was absolutely 0 emotion or attraction when we talked.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I had a dream about her a few nights ago. I wanted to see her face again so I viewed her profile on FB. Saw a picture of her with the new bf. They seem happy. He seems happy. It bothers me, I feel like that should be ME in the picture, not him. My happiness was taken from me and I didn't do anything to deserve it. I feel more deserving than him, I did more than enough to prove myself to her... I have a hole in my chest since, and everything feels surreal and strange. Depressing perhaps.

I've since changed my mind, I think it is possible to be happy with a BPD. I know it is. These relationships are amazing and no woman compares to her. It takes strong ppl to date them but I believe that if you don't let your insecurities get in that way you'll both be fine.

So, forgiving her made me remember the good in her as well. It all came rushing back. It's causing me so much pain at the same time. Is forgiveness worth it then? Is it not Biblical? The right thing to do? Is this what I get for doing so? More pain? Will I forever be stuck in this hell?

I think you are mixing up a few things here. I think forgiveness is the only way to completely heal from this. Life is simply too short to walk around with a grudge against somebody for years and years and years. So, you got that part right. This being said... .

You know what else life is too short for? For putting up with being treated like crap. Because eventually that's what happens, it's just the nature of the condition. Yeah, sure, for various reasons a PD individual doesn't see it as treating you like crap (unless we are talking sociopath/narcissist variety of PD). But it doesn't matter. By normal human standards, you will be treated like crap over and over if you don't walk away. Putting up with that isn't a sign of strength. Walking away from it is a sign that you have a whole lot of respect for yourself.

Now of course, it is a personal decision what you wanna do. There are plenty of people who decide to stick around. But I suggest you check out the staying board and see what exactly people put up with. Personally, I have seen plenty of people on this board whose story begins with "I was on the staying board for a while but I just can't do this anymore".

[DazedD23]

I remember feeling the way you've described because my ex was my everything. She got me, really understood me. She paid attention to me, listened to my views and opinions and we talked none stop for the 4 years we were together. Please don't get me started on the sexual chemistry between us. She was perfect and through the turbulence, all the red flags I still always thought she was perfect.

After our first split she pulled me back in even though I had all the evidence in front of me. All my friends said, run, you need to get away from her. She pushed and pulled and toyed with me before one day coming back for good. I was to scared to ask her why she stopped pushing me away and came back. I was just so happy we were back together and looking like we had moved on and would grow stronger. I thought I could handle my insecuritie, I thought we were soul mates and I thought the love between us was enough to push through anything her mental health could throw at us or anything either of us could throw at one another. I was very very wrong.

Just my experience. Tread very carefully man.

[bAlex]

I was attracted to my ex as a person too. Forgiving the faults and the bad stuff. Until it got too much.

Yes their behaviour is caused by hurt they suffered from as small children. But if you read this board you will learn it cannot work no matter how strong you are. Because there will always be a moment in life you need to be able to lean on your partner. If someone dies for example. And you cannot lean on a pwBPD.

Also you seem to contradict yourself; if there were no deal breakers and just small things what was there you needed to forgive or bad things to look past?

and if you as a man, leave it unchecked and let it get to you you end up here. All women do this, BPD just does it to the max.

You have a very strange view on women.

Lol, yes it might seem like a contradiction but most of the hurt came after we broke up, not during the relationship. She admitted leaving me because she wasn't used to being treated well. How does a person ever get over such a thing?

My view on women isn't bad. I love women. What I meant was that I believe BPD just amplifies female traits. Mine didn't cheat or anything like that, she pushed me away because I seemed to like her too much. In my mind any woman would do that. At the moment I'm pretty much emotionally unavailable to any other woman, they seem to love that. They confuse it as strength or a challenge somehow, and maybe if I just had better self control I while dating her I wouldn't be here right now.

[bAlex]

I remember feeling the way you've described because my ex was my everything. She got me, really understood me. She paid attention to me, listened to my views and opinions and we talked none stop for the 4 years we were together. Please don't get me started on the sexual chemistry between us. She was perfect and through the turbulence, all the red flags I still always thought she was perfect.

After our first split she pulled me back in even though I had all the evidence in front of me. All my friends said, run, you need to get away from her. She pushed and pulled and toyed with me before one day coming back for good. I was to scared to ask her why she stopped pushing me away and came back. I was just so happy we were back together and looking like we had moved on and would grow stronger. I thought I could handle my insecuritie, I thought we were soul mates and I thought the love between us was enough to push through anything her mental health could throw at us or anything either of us could throw at one another. I was very very wrong.

Just my experience. Tread very carefully man.

Bottom line, she doesn't want me. And her reasons for leaving makes it impossible to get over her. I screwed up also, I should have practiced better self control. She's not that hard to get along with if you understand her. I just wish she still liked me, there's almost nothing I wouldn't forgive her for, I just wish she would've given me the same gift to me.

[DazedD23]

For me this is the hardest thing I have ever had to face. Nothing has knocked me like this before. I understand my ex, I get on with her, she was my best friend, my confident, my lover, my everything and that's why I can't forgive her because I'm left wondering what was real and what wasn't. It's the ultimate betrayal because she is none of those things that I thought she was.

Who did I understand, who did I love, who did I have that "connection" with?

It's to fuc£&ng painful and she haunts me everyday and every night because I want her back, I want her to waltz in and tell me she's got it wrong and she loves me in spite of her mental health and she needs me as much as I need her. I know that's not going to happen but the most painful part is knowing that if she did I can't forgive her nor allow her back in to my life and that's why this is so painful for me and why it rips me apart every day.

[bAlex]

For me this is the hardest thing I have ever had to face. Nothing has knocked me like this before. I understand my ex, I get on with her, she was my best friend, my confident, my lover, my everything and that's why I can't forgive her because I'm left wondering what was real and what wasn't. It's the ultimate betrayal because she is none of those things that I thought she was.

Who did I understand, who did I love, who did I have that "connection" with?

It's to fuc£&ng painful and she haunts me everyday and every night because I want her back, I want her to waltz in and tell me she's got it wrong and she loves me in spite of her mental health and she needs me as much as I need her. I know that's not going to happen but the most painful part is knowing that if she did I can't forgive her nor allow her back in to my life and that's why this is so painful for me and why it rips me apart every day.

it was easier for me when I hated and belittled her in my own mind, at least I didn't want her back... but I had no inner peace, and I wasn't capable of loving another woman. so maybe I was in denial all along... ? but forgiving her for breaking my heart just made it easy for me to want to be with her again. makes me think forgiveness is overrated, if pain is what I get for doing it.

[bAlex]

For me this is the hardest thing I have ever had to face. Nothing has knocked me like this before. I understand my ex, I get on with her, she was my best friend, my confident, my lover, my everything and that's why I can't forgive her because I'm left wondering what was real and what wasn't. It's the ultimate betrayal because she is none of those things that I thought she was.

Who did I understand, who did I love, who did I have that "connection" with?

It's to fuc£&ng painful and she haunts me everyday and every night because I want her back, I want her to waltz in and tell me she's got it wrong and she loves me in spite of her mental health and she needs me as much as I need her. I know that's not going to happen but the most painful part is knowing that if she did I can't forgive her nor allow her back in to my life and that's why this is so painful for me and why it rips me apart every day.

yeah, but it shouldn't have to be like this. why do these things happen to good people? I'm starting to think there is no escape from this aside from finding someone better, which is a stretch for most of us... seems no one ever gets over this, like a splinter in your flesh that stays there till you die.

[Reforming]

Hi bAlex,

Sorry to hear that you're going through such a tough time.

I think you've already got some pretty good advice from the other members.

First let me say that people do get over these relationships - some better than others.

It's takes time, it takes work and it takes courage but it's definitely possible.

That doesn't mean that our experience, the pain and the euphoria, doesn't leave a mark - of course it does. But you can learn to put it in perspective and live with it - as people do with other painful experiences

Most of us here have also experienced the euphoria that comes with idealisation and the initial bonding.

It's feels like you reached a state of grace and met the one person in the world who totally gets you.

A lot of us spent time trying to recapture this and it's one of the hardest things to let go of.

Understanding the dynamics of idealisation - that this was pattern of behaviour typical of these relationships helped me to accept that it is not real and it's not sustainable.

One of the other things that I also realised after I learned about BPD was that many of the qualities that I loved about my ex were as much a product of her disorder as the ones I hated.

The idealisation, the intensity, the child like behaviour that could be endearing. She is profoundly shaped by her disorder for good and bad and I can't change that or cherry pick the ones that I like.

Perhaps the hardest question that I've tried to answer since the end of my relationship was why I was drawn to her idealisation - to her need?

Good luck and keep posting

[DazedD23]

It doesn't feel like there's a way out that's for sure!

I feel like I should go out there and find a replacement for her but i know that I am looking for someone to fix me, you know, like she used to do. I believe I was codependent on her and I say that off the back of the mess I've crumbled in too. I'm the knee holding myself prisoner to my emotions and feelings not her. She's up and running sorting herself out, getting her fixes and moving on. I'm stuck torturing myself daily.

How long is this sentence I've given myself going to last? Each day I waste sitting in a world of depression, anxiety, hurt and yes self pity and say to myself, right tomorrow I'm going to be better and I'm going to get on with it and be strong yet each day I end up sitting on the sofa staring at the walls.

Find a replacement? I haven't got anything for anyone anymore.

[steelwork]

I just wish she would've given me the same gift to me.

I made some huge mistakes myself. That does make things harder, I believe. But at the end of the day I don't need someone with a rigid and unforgiving heart.

[bAlex]

It doesn't feel like there's a way out that's for sure!

I feel like I should go out there and find a replacement for her but i know that I am looking for someone to fix me, you know, like she used to do. I believe I was codependent on her and I say that off the back of the mess I've crumbled in too. I'm the knee holding myself prisoner to my emotions and feelings not her. She's up and running sorting herself out, getting her fixes and moving on. I'm stuck torturing myself daily.

How long is this sentence I've given myself going to last? Each day I waste sitting in a world of depression, anxiety, hurt and yes self pity and say to myself, right tomorrow I'm going to be better and I'm going to get on with it and be strong yet each day I end up sitting on the sofa staring at the walls.

Find a replacement? I haven't got anything for anyone anymore.

In the end we don't have control over who we love. We just do. We can't turn emotions on and off like a switch. I was happy by myself before her and miserable after without her. I was never needy or co-dependant or any of that. What makes this hard is that I know things would have been different for us if the circumstances were better. Our timing sucked, living arrangements made it hard to see each other and that turned me into a little b___. There is no one better than her, she was hands down the most beautiful and sexiest women I've ever met. Thoughtful and smart and a great sense of humour too. I would've had my happy ending, but my behaviour was such a turn-off to her that she doesn't see it that way anymore.

[gotbushels]

Take sex off the table for a moment and honestly ask yourself if the intense attraction you feel for her is still there ... .and what specifically intensely attracts you to her (not looks or sex).

Ding ding ding! This is why my wife and I are estranged:  she stopped putting any effort into our marriage, I wanted more than her beauty and sex, and when I had the "love is an action verb" conversation with her finally all hell broke loose.

Who is going to make me feel like she did again? Don't know, but realizing with each passing day that I deserve more than a good lay out of life.

good post. "love is an action verb" = splendid.

[bAlex]

I just wish she would've given me the same gift to me.

I made some huge mistakes myself. That does make things harder, I believe. But at the end of the day I don't need someone with a rigid and unforgiving heart.

But unforgiving to which extent? I'm honestly thinking she wasn't unreasonable.

[steelwork]

I just wish she would've given me the same gift to me.

I made some huge mistakes myself. That does make things harder, I believe. But at the end of the day I don't need someone with a rigid and unforgiving heart.

But unforgiving to which extent? I'm honestly thinking she wasn't unreasonable.

If so, whatever else happens, you will have to forgive yourself. I say that as someone who has spent more than a year in therapy learning why I acted as I did. I know that wasn't your reason for posting, but it's a step in healing that can't be ignored.

[gotbushels]

Hi bAlex. I'm sorry to hear about the difficulty you're going through.

I would love to be on the "what are you doing" train here but let's look at some of the things you mentioned instead.

I've since changed my mind, I think it is possible to be happy with a BPD. I know it is. These relationships are amazing and no woman compares to her. It takes strong ppl to date them but I believe that if you don't let your insecurities get in that way you'll both be fine.

In some ways, you're right. It is possible to be happy with a pwBPD. Also, it's documented that BPs show the best and worst of humans. You could say that it's difficult to compare people to these types of persons. Indeed also it takes two people to make a relationship and there is give and take. But this means that both people have rights to some insecurities and require healthy ways of dealing with them.

Instead of it taking "strong people" to "date them", have you considered that it takes a weak person to date a BP?

So, forgiving her made me remember the good in her as well. It all came rushing back. It's causing me so much pain at the same time. Is forgiveness worth it then? Is it not Biblical? The right thing to do? Is this what I get for doing so? More pain? Will I forever be stuck in this hell?

Your description seems to be as though you miss the rollercoaster, complete with "rushing back" on the good parts.

I would agree that the act itself of forgiveness is encouraged by Christians. But the Bible also says beware the wayward woman (or man if you're inclined), not to waste your time on adulterers, and not to waste your energy on those who destroy men (or women, again). I don't think it's God's intention for men to forgive everything limitlessly. Note that wisdom is mentioned hundreds of times in the Bible as well. If you decide to continue down this path, indeed it's your decision.

... .

and if you as a man, leave it unchecked and let it get to you you end up here. All women do this, BPD just does it to the max.

You have a very strange view on women.

Made me chuckle

What I meant was that I believe BPD just amplifies female traits. Mine didn't cheat or anything like that, she pushed me away because I seemed to like her too much. In my mind any woman would do that.

Umm. No. Just no.

If the BP traits aren't forthcoming and she's not been diagnosed then this discussion is increasingly moot. I wish you well--and you still have my sympathies--just not really as a non.

[bAlex]

[/quote]
Umm. No. Just no.

If the BP traits aren't forthcoming and she's not been diagnosed then this discussion is increasingly moot. I wish you well--and you still have my sympathies--just not really as a non.[/quote]
The traits are there, I'm just thinking that maybe it's not such a bad thing. Everyone does something that the other doesn't like in the end...

You don't agree with amplified traits? That's your choice, but if you think about it carefully it's clear as day. Everything they do is on the extreme end of the spectrum. That is all.

[gotbushels]

Sure bAlex. No worries, we don't all have to agree on something  We all just present our case and let the reader and the OP decide.

The BP will express whatever combination of symptoms and if that doesn't feel to you like it's a bad thing, I can understand that. We all have different experiences with BPs and as individuals.

To work with your statement, I do think that BPD doesn't just amplify female traits. In your example, if someone rejects someone as too needy, both men and women do that. I think that rejection response is neither sexually exclusive (i.e., only women do it) nor does BPD affect how a person will react with a needy person.