How do you know when to give up?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I would really love some input from you all. There's a lot of history that I'm going to try to keep brief but cover the key themes.

We've been together about 5 years, married 2. We're both in our early 30's.

Him: Shortly after we got married he was fired from his job and that sent him into a downward spiral. Eventually, about 6 months later, he did an intensive outpatient program. There, he was diagnosed with BPD. The program was helpful but afterwards, he still had a long way to go. He does therapy weekly but that's about it. He does his "homework" from therapy about half the time. He doesn't do much above and beyond that, like reading books or workbooks that might help, going to group therapy, etc. I've talked to him several times about trying DBT, but he says we won't be able to afford it. While that's true right now I've asked him to look into it anyway so we can plan to make it happen - he has not looked into it.

Me: I've been through the ringer while all of this is going on, pretty much all of your classic BPD relationship dynamics are at play. His fears of abandonment are so intense that I feel like I am in a no-win situation almost all of the time. He can interpret almost anything I say or do as a sign of abandonment or betrayal at any time (seemingly at random). Of course this leaves me feeling like I'm walking on eggshells (yes, I am reading the book) for fear of whatever verbal/emotional abuse or manipulation will come after his fears are triggered. But I'm feeling very much DONE with being treated this way. I'm so drained and tired of even hearing about his feelings.  So I'm looking at my options.

Option 1: I work on my boundaries and my husband starts putting 100% into his treatment. Obviously this is my ideal scenario. I start handling things better so I don't lose my mind while he works on improving himself. But, how do I know when he's putting in 100%? Maybe he's already doing the best that he can right now.

Option 2: Nothing changes with my husband, but I work on my self. Is it possible to get to a point where this dynamic is fulfilling for me? Can I cultivate enough support, coping skills, and limits that I'll ever be happy with him? Will I get to a point where I am confident having kids with him?

Option 3: Nothing changes with my husband, and this marriage fails. How and when will I know if the changes within myself will be enough for me to be satisfied, even though he has stayed the same?

I don't want to get divorced. I meant my vows to him and I understand that he is really suffering. We have a lot of fun together, although that used to happen a lot more often than it does now. His constant criticism has slowly made me feel more and more worthless, like no one thinks I am worth dealing with (my parents always treated me like a burden). I feel like if we divorce I will never want to even try to have a relationship again, because what if there's something I brought to this relationship that is still going to be there and I will end up in the same boat all over. When I look back, I feel like such a fool. I thought he genuinely loved me and now I feel like he never even saw me for who I am, just something to fill this hole inside of him. And I am not sure if I'll ever be able to let go of the hurt and fear that his actions have made me feel - I never thought someone who loved you could treat you like this.

And I feel like my opportunity to have a family will be gone if we get divorced. If I am ever ready for another relationship, how long is it going to take me to actually trust someone again? And by then will it be too late for me to have a family? I don't want to live my life alone. Not that I need someone to function, but I think that love and family are the good stuff in life. That's what it's all about. And unfortunately I am not close with my family of origin. I have wonderful friends but they all have their own marriages and families. Seeing them once every week or two is great but it doesn't really give me a reason to be here. I'm succeeding beyond my wildest dreams in my career, but that doesn't give me a deep feeling of purpose for being on this earth. This leads me to feel really hopeless about the future and sometimes I think I'd rather just kill myself because I just feel like all of my realistic options are just miserable at this point. (Yes I am in therapy on my own).

How embarrassing would it be to get divorced after 2 years, at 30 years old? I would feel ashamed to show my face to any of my family, friends, or colleagues. But what else can I do and how do I know when to give up?

This was hard to write. Thank you for listening and for any support you can offer.

[tuxedopenguin]

I would really love some input from you all. There's a lot of history that I'm going to try to keep brief but cover the key themes.

We've been together about 5 years, married 2. We're both in our early 30's.

Him: Shortly after we got married he was fired from his job and that sent him into a downward spiral. Eventually, about 6 months later, he did an intensive outpatient program. There, he was diagnosed with BPD. The program was helpful but afterwards, he still had a long way to go. He does therapy weekly but that's about it. He does his "homework" from therapy about half the time. He doesn't do much above and beyond that, like reading books or workbooks that might help, going to group therapy, etc. I've talked to him several times about trying DBT, but he says we won't be able to afford it. While that's true right now I've asked him to look into it anyway so we can plan to make it happen - he has not looked into it.

Me: I've been through the ringer while all of this is going on, pretty much all of your classic BPD relationship dynamics are at play. His fears of abandonment are so intense that I feel like I am in a no-win situation almost all of the time. He can interpret almost anything I say or do as a sign of abandonment or betrayal at any time (seemingly at random). Of course this leaves me feeling like I'm walking on eggshells (yes, I am reading the book) for fear of whatever verbal/emotional abuse or manipulation will come after his fears are triggered. But I'm feeling very much DONE with being treated this way. I'm so drained and tired of even hearing about his feelings.  So I'm looking at my options.

Option 1: I work on my boundaries and my husband starts putting 100% into his treatment. Obviously this is my ideal scenario. I start handling things better so I don't lose my mind while he works on improving himself. But, how do I know when he's putting in 100%? Maybe he's already doing the best that he can right now.

Option 2: Nothing changes with my husband, but I work on my self. Is it possible to get to a point where this dynamic is fulfilling for me? Can I cultivate enough support, coping skills, and limits that I'll ever be happy with him? Will I get to a point where I am confident having kids with him?

Option 3: Nothing changes with my husband, and this marriage fails. How and when will I know if the changes within myself will be enough for me to be satisfied, even though he has stayed the same?

I don't want to get divorced. I meant my vows to him and I understand that he is really suffering. We have a lot of fun together, although that used to happen a lot more often than it does now. His constant criticism has slowly made me feel more and more worthless, like no one thinks I am worth dealing with (my parents always treated me like a burden). I feel like if we divorce I will never want to even try to have a relationship again, because what if there's something I brought to this relationship that is still going to be there and I will end up in the same boat all over. When I look back, I feel like such a fool. I thought he genuinely loved me and now I feel like he never even saw me for who I am, just something to fill this hole inside of him. And I am not sure if I'll ever be able to let go of the hurt and fear that his actions have made me feel - I never thought someone who loved you could treat you like this.

And I feel like my opportunity to have a family will be gone if we get divorced. If I am ever ready for another relationship, how long is it going to take me to actually trust someone again? And by then will it be too late for me to have a family? I don't want to live my life alone. Not that I need someone to function, but I think that love and family are the good stuff in life. That's what it's all about. And unfortunately I am not close with my family of origin. I have wonderful friends but they all have their own marriages and families. Seeing them once every week or two is great but it doesn't really give me a reason to be here. I'm succeeding beyond my wildest dreams in my career, but that doesn't give me a deep feeling of purpose for being on this earth. This leads me to feel really hopeless about the future and sometimes I think I'd rather just kill myself because I just feel like all of my realistic options are just miserable at this point. (Yes I am in therapy on my own).

How embarrassing would it be to get divorced after 2 years, at 30 years old? I would feel ashamed to show my face to any of my family, friends, or colleagues. But what else can I do and how do I know when to give up?

This was hard to write. Thank you for listening and for any support you can offer.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[No-One]

Hi tuxedopenguin:
Welcome!
I'm sorry about what you are going through with your husband.  Stressful events can really unleash BPD behaviors.  If you could look back, to the first 3 years of your relationship (prior to marriage), were there any signs of odd behavior from your partner, perhaps just signs of anxiety and/or depression?

How embarrassing would it be to get divorced after 2 years, at 30 years old? I would feel ashamed to show my face to any of my family, friends, or colleagues. But what else can I do and how do I know when to give up?

Only you can decide what you want to do, but don't let embarrassment get in the way.  There is no shame in realizing you made a mistake.  Better to realize that sooner, versus later (and before you have children).  I've read a lot of recent posts where it's 30 years down the road, they have lead a miserable life and can't take it any longer. I'm sure everyone in your life would like to see you happy in life and have children free from mental illness.

Some people are successful in hiding mental conditions & bad traits from their partner prior to marriage (or even an official diagnosis).  BPD doesn't just come out of nowhere.  Generally, someone has been struggling with some form of mental illness for a long time (i.e. anxiety, depression, ADHD, OCD or others)

Option 2: Nothing changes with my husband, but I work on my self. Is it possible to get to a point where this dynamic is fulfilling for me? Can I cultivate enough support, coping skills, and limits that I'll ever be happy with him? Will I get to a point where I am confident having kids with him?    

Sometimes, when you work on yourself - your communication strategy and boundaries - it can make a noticeable difference.  Things can improve for you, just by changing how you interact.

Even with the best of circumstances, BPD behaviors won't totally disappear for most people.  BPD doesn't generally stand alone, as most people with BPD are struggling with other mental health issues. Stressful events in life will tend to knock someone with BPD traits off the good path.  Someone can get a handle on DBT strategies, take meds & go to therapy and make great progress.  The likelihood is that life happens and there will be bumps in the road (relapses).  Job changes or loss, death in the family, birth of a child, etc. can all add stress that can bring about a relapse.

Regarding children, you have to consider two issues: Genetics & behavior.  Mental problem tend of have a genetic component.  It can skip generations, or you could have multiple children with mental health issues. If the children don't inherit a mental health condition genetically, there is the environmental factor to consider.

I'm not trying to scare you, just sharing some facts that you need to consider in making decisions.  If you read enough posts on various boards you will see a trend, in regard to both situations (genetic & environmental).

 I've talked to him several times about trying DBT, but he says we won't be able to afford it. While that's true right now I've asked him to look into it anyway so we can plan to make it happen - he has not looked into it.  

Marsha Linehan is the authority on DBT.  She has some books & workbooks on DBT that you can find on Amazon.  There are some online classes that you might want to search for.  If you aren't already familiar with DBT, you might want to become familiar with it.  One way to get a quick glance about DBT is to go to the website below and look around:
dbtselfhelp.com

You might find that some of the homework you husband is already getting in therapy could be strategies that conform with DBT logic.

At some point, you might want to seek some individual counseling/therapy.  A good therapist, who is familiar with DBT, can help you navigate your relationship and guide you towards a decision that is best for you in the long run.