What do I do now?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I think he loves me, but I am not sure anymore that he cares about me. He usually calls me "honey" but when he wrote to me today, he used my first name. It always jars me when he does that because he uses it so seldom.

I lost optimism and my mind plays games with me.

This is just a thought that came to mind, but maybe just maybe he used your first name because he's seeing you as a real person, who you really are - not his "honey" that he's used to manipulating (even if unconsciously).  Ultimately, this is a good thing; to be recognized and acknowledged for being who we are.  I wouldn't read too much into it in a negative way.  Flip it around to make it work for you, use it to your advantage to build up your own self esteem.  Begin to accept that you deserve the good things in life

And I agree wholeheartedly with P&C, that what you are doing is ''working''... .  

Anyone here play tournement poker?

This kind of reminds me in some ways of the end part of the game where there are several players left. If you try to be really agressive amongst agressive players, you have 2-3 other players to play against. If you step back and quietly stay in the game by doing nothing but folding hands, the other players will often knock each other out until you are sitting there with only one other player to deal with.

I really like this analogy!  Love isn't a game, but in this example when there's only one other player left to deal with, you're both taking care of yourselves protecting your best interests and it's nothing personal.  You might even decide to share the pot

[123Phoebe]

I think he loves me, but I am not sure anymore that he cares about me. He usually calls me "honey" but when he wrote to me today, he used my first name. It always jars me when he does that because he uses it so seldom.

I lost optimism and my mind plays games with me.

This is just a thought that came to mind, but maybe just maybe he used your first name because he's seeing you as a real person, who you really are - not his "honey" that he's used to manipulating (even if unconsciously).  Ultimately, this is a good thing; to be recognized and acknowledged for being who we are.  I wouldn't read too much into it in a negative way.  Flip it around to make it work for you, use it to your advantage to build up your own self esteem.  Begin to accept that you deserve the good things in life

And I agree wholeheartedly with P&C, that what you are doing is ''working''... .  

Anyone here play tournement poker?

This kind of reminds me in some ways of the end part of the game where there are several players left. If you try to be really agressive amongst agressive players, you have 2-3 other players to play against. If you step back and quietly stay in the game by doing nothing but folding hands, the other players will often knock each other out until you are sitting there with only one other player to deal with.

I really like this analogy!  Love isn't a game, but in this example when there's only one other player left to deal with, you're both taking care of yourselves protecting your best interests and it's nothing personal.  You might even decide to share the pot

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

Here we go, just got an email from him. He wants to re-engage but he is extremely anxious I will randomly forward information to his ex who he wants entirely out of the loop with regards to us.

I guess that was what he wanted to talk about.

Considering how much chaos and how his ex likes to jerk the kids and his interaction with him around, I kind of see his point. And I honestly really don't want contact with her. As I explained here I was very upset with him for a variety of reasons, and I was being pounced on by her at the time, so I lost it a bit.

I don't really know what to say to him. Basically I now understand his actions ( even tho they were detrimental) and I am not having the same strong angry reactions... uncontrolled, etc... .  I kind of don't want to feel like I am some secret.  This kind of steps on my anxiety about him hooking back up with her ( horrible as their interaction is) and hiding me.

I don't know, I feel wary and it stings to be considered untrustworthy after I was jerked around and lied to so much. Hello Pot, Kettle here, please tell me again I am untrustworthy.  

I could validate him tonight, but it's a little hard for me to swallow atm. Tired and sad.

But, on the good side, he IS talking, as you guys said and 2 months ago he was going DEEP into silent treatment. Opportunity to come at this from a different direction in a positive and productive way.

I hope :/

[laelle]

I dunno, I think that his situation with his ex wife is his to deal with.  She isnt your ex wife.  Tell him that and politely tell him that you wont participate in any heavy discussions about her. If he does, then make your kind excuses and come back later. She isnt your wife. It becomes your choice not to get into their nutso factory, not him telling you to keep out of it. Who wants to be in the middle of that anyway? You control you.

Take your time and ease your way back into this.  You dont owe anyone anything.  In the past you responded as probably most people would to the chaos that he was causing in you life.  What is most important is not him or his crazy ex, but that you are able to keep that chaos out.

You are still around even after he has done some really ~ty things to you, so I think maybe just accepting that you are going to continue to stay around after those ~ty things he did to you and try to let some of it go.  By your posts it seems to me that you are a bit angry at yourself for sticking around.  It is as it is. Try to find a little peace in that.

As far as other women... .  He is not the center of your life, and talking is all your doing.  Dont let him push you back into that same spot.  Its you who is perceiving it that your a secret.  Why not just consider it your talking to the guy you care about and not getting involved in his ~.  Enjoy the time you are with him, and let someone else worry about his mental health a little while.  If he talks to another woman, you dont have to like it, but to give freedom also gains you freedom. 

[elemental]

I think he is excusing himself for blocking me still on social site instant messenger. Personally I find a grown man blocking people the way he does ( and it isn't just me he blocks) kind of ridiculous, but I haven't said anything to him about it. He knows I don't like it, though. I guess if it makes him feel in control, then I am ignoring it. He can control his own self, I will go do other things while he is doing that.

And yes, as I am coming more into contact with him, some of my old feelings are making themselves known. Resentment. I guess it is. I haven't responded to the email yet. It's probably best if I let those feelings die down before trying to respond.

I am angry at myself for not walking away for a while when I confronted him about the baby and it turned out to be true. I wish I had just said "okay" and left for a few weeks. Maybe then he would actually believe I matter, I have feelings, I count as an actual human being who he hurt and devastated. That I am valuable  and maybe he could really lose me if he continued the stupidity. Because he DID continue the stupidity and I made a jerk of myself the last few months of 2012 over it all.

Now, I understand HE is reacting on how he is FEELING and he is remembering the past and cutting out what he did and only remembering how upset I got and the real memory he is having is how HE FELT when I was blowing to pieces over being cheated on, over being lied to about BIG things, over finding out about babies.

It was how HE FELT: ashamed, scared, afraid.

I GET it now.

[elemental]

I didn't answer that email yet. So he sent me another one.

He says again he is afraid and not ready "yet" because I told off his ex for pestering me and it caused her to go bonkers and act crap for a couple weeks. I guess he wants some acknowledgement and validation.

I have a problem.

Resentment.

Also I guess I am not being sensible because I have been working towards shifting my side of things enough that when these opportunities come to steer things in the direction I want, I am turning out to be so angry and resentful that I can't make myself respond to him in a timely and positive way.

I really have loved this person. I feel I still do, but I am just weary and angry. The good side is that I am in control of myself. I don't feel the need to talk to him or get support from him, or acknowledgement from him. I would like to have it, but since I know he doesn't care how I feel, and it will caused a massive conflict if I try, why bother?

I don't even know what to say to him. I started trying to write back like 10 times and half way through, I just feel apathy.

[laelle]

Its is not a bad thing you told off his ex for bugging you.  How she reacted to it is her problem, not yours.  If she didnt want a bad reactions, she shouldnt have pestered you.  YOu are not to blame.

I think he wants you to keep chasing him because it feeds his ego.  Thats just my opinion.  I really hate to see you bitter, angry and sad.  These things are not your fault, you only protected yourself as Anyone would.   

[elemental]

I don't feel like chasing him. So he is kind of out of luck with that. I think he kind of wants me in a position of accepting all of the fault and letting him walk over me and he can  be the "victim" and he wants to make me pay for it all by dragging out sorting things out between us. First I have to beg and apologize. And he then gets to decide after a few weeks that ok, he will give me another chance.

Or that is what I am feeling and that is what is setting off my resentment. Probably I need to work on re-framing things to see the broad and longer term picture. Once we re-establish open communication and inter action, I can use my new Ninja BPD Deflecting Skills to nudge the relationship in a more productive direction.

Problem really is that I am struggling with the resentment.

I was trying to think of a way of validating his anxiety without taking the blame for what his ex did over the holidays. But he knows I knew a response from me would send her off the deep end.

Do I think I am to blame? No. Her actions are on her. But I knew she wouldn't control herself, she never does. I let my own upset outweigh the likely result. Which makes me evil or something.

[patientandclear]

What if you tried something like "I understand why the drama makes you unhappy. Me, too.  We may never agree fully on what causes the drama, but I am interested in not having it continue.  Meanwhile, I miss you and care about you."

[elemental]

that is a very good way of putting it because I actually do feel that way. I just don't feel like wading through all the other stuff.   

[patientandclear]

Exactly.  I find when I get stuck figuring out what to say, it's because I was trying to say something that wasn't quite true.  If you start with what is true and work outwards from there (finding a way to validate in so doing), it feels better.

[elemental]

Oh well that worked. He  unblocked me and warned me that discussion about his social profile ... .  any comment by me is "SPYING" is not wanted. But we can talk again.

Well I spied. He also kissed and made up with his ex and they are back on each other's profile. So I guess the disregulation calmed down for everyone and we are all happy again.

I mean, they are happy.

I don't want to talk to him. I don't care that he wants peace with her. I don't have to comment to him. I just walk away and he can wonder why I didn't jump on his awesomeness.

Probably this is not a noble response, but I frankly prefer him keeping her at a distance because it sets me off wondering what they have been up to.

[123Phoebe]

Hi Elemental,

Did you respond to his email?

It's just so tricky, your relationship.  I don't really know what to make of his behaviors concerning you.

On the one hand, he has children with his ex, so for the kid's sake it's super important that they be civil toward each other; the kids didn't ask for dysfunctional parents and do not deserve the chaotic upbringing they're going to endure being raised by people with zero emotional control. 

On the other hand, it sounds like he's willing to place the sole blame on you for that 'zero emotional control' that they have.  Like you're the scapegoat   That would upset me greatly, too

I don't want to talk to him. I don't care that he wants peace with her. I don't have to comment to him. I just walk away and he can wonder why I didn't jump on his awesomeness.

Probably this is not a noble response, but I frankly prefer him keeping her at a distance because it sets me off wondering what they have been up to.

You absolutely do not have to talk to him or comment to him, or have anything to do with him until you're good and ready.

Take all the time you need, Elemental.  This is your life and you do not have to jump through hoops to prove anything to anybody.

Can you think of something nice to do for yourself today?  Something that has nothing to do with him or the ex?  Something that makes you feel happy inside?

[elemental]

I told him that I could see why he might feel that way, but I really don't like drama either.

A variation again on what Patient had come up with.

Well I agree that civility between him and his ex is very important for the kids. Traditionally, though, what it would take for her to calm down enough to actually be civil involves her getting what she wants from him in some way... .  and I am triggering off of it, wondering what it was. Usually he does something or agrees to something that hurts me and gives her the belief they are "back together".

So I am looking out for incoming crap from her.

And no, I do not like being scapegoated. Also, for a guy who so clearly has let me down and hurt me, I think a more "civil" communication to ME would have been along more the lines of "hey I agree about being calm and moving in a positive directions" rather than some nasty commentary  and calling me a spy.

What does he even WANT from me, coming at me with this attitude.

And this is my resentment and hurt popping back up again. I guess it's not that far under the surface. I didn't expect this. I really thought I would just be happy to have things heading back to normal. :/

I can think of a few things to distract me. I think my nerves may be broken or something. I am thinking and feeling the same way new people to this site feel. At least I am not reacting TO him where he can see it the way I was a month ago.  

[elemental]

An example of "back together" is Christmas a few years ago, he was invited over to her place for christmas dinner with them and he hadn't seen his daughter for almost a month. So he jumps at the opportunity and goes. As soon as he gets there, she and her parents leave to a church service. Church service went until 1 AM and they don't come back till 3 AM. So obviously he stayed with his daughter over night and next morning first thing, I start getting mails from her about how they were back together and how he was begging to have another baby  :'(

So I call him up and am like what is going on and it was not true, except in the end they DO have another baby and I am getting jerked around all over the place.

I am tired of it all. I really thought if I changed how I handled things by not getting so upset the way I have in the last year or so, things would get better. Maybe I am right at the beginning of this journey, but so far, I am not feeling so good about how I am being treated.

He called the unblocking a gesture of good will. Was there really a need to smack me while doing it?

[123Phoebe]

He called the unblocking a gesture of good will. Was there really a need to smack me while doing it?

No, there was no sensible reason for him to treat you that way.  He seems like a guy that WANTS to have his cake and eat it too.

I agree with you that at this point, if you're to continue on, you will need more civil communication directed your way; more than unblocking you and warning you not to spy or whatever.

I'm sorry, Elemental.  None of this is easy; it hurts.  You're continuing to be hurt by him even with limited contact.  He's disordered and trying to control the mess he's made; he's calling the shots blah blah blech.

I am tired of it all. I really thought if I changed how I handled things by not getting so upset the way I have in the last year or so, things would get better. Maybe I am right at the beginning of this journey, but so far, I am not feeling so good about how I am being treated.

You're keeping your side of the street clean, which is really all that you can do or have control over.  What he chooses to do (with your gesture of good will) is totally up to him.  You get to decide if it's enough.

Again, I'd leave him be... .    There's really not a lot to hang on to at this point, until he shows up (grows up!) with something nice to offer, then you take it from there... .   

[elemental]

his ex is never satisfied with staus quo.

I am sure they will be bickering again within the day.

Probably he is calming down some, but as you said, still disregulated. I tried to extend myself, but as can be seen, it didn't take much to upset me again.

As for spying, for some reason he thinks whenever he blocks me on IM I can't see his social pages. So what I saw there is only what I mentioned here, which is him wallowing in being a jerk and mentally ill.

And you have a good idea. I will ignore rude comments at me and only respond when he is polite.

[123Phoebe]

I will ignore rude comments at me and only respond when he is polite.

We teach others how to treat us!  When he continues to get no emotional reaction to his dysfunctional ways (not plugging into it, nor feeding the beast), he'll eventually be forced to play nice if he wants to keep you around

It's not a 'game', it's simply being respectful.

[elemental]

I am having a hard time with wanting to explain to him that I lost interest in his social page in December when I realized his own feelings of being victimized were so overwhelming to him that he was re-writing facts to support those feelings.

Next thought I think is yeh, how do I expect that will turn out 

I am sitting here tonight in a resentful little pyre, fulminating away... .  the disrespect is really getting to me.

[elemental]

He has apologized very nicely for making things so difficult for me and asked that we begin again in a calm and low key way. He says that his ex is giving massive fits and lies constantly about everything. It appears to be winding him up pretty badly.

I don't think I could have gotton a better re-entry into things than this, at this time.

[patientandclear]

Wow.  That is a cautionary tale indeed about the value of patience and waiting and sitting still and trusting the process.

Keep us posted about how things unfold from here.  I hope this next chapter brings some joy to you from this relationship -- heaven knows you deserve it.

[LetItBe]

I'm glad for you, elemental.  Hoping for peace for you.

[elemental]

I hope, too.