Never hear from them again because it brings them shame? another failure?

[Depression = 72% of members]

For me, the pull you back in and then push you away behavior has left me in limbo, the space between those 2 worlds, not really there and not really here. A paradox of happiness and sadness intertwined. And then I tried to save her with my "love" all in the while I am not loving myself as I should have always been while perpetually existing in that limbo after all was said and done. I've immersed myself in that chaos and that chaos has consumed me.

[Ironmanrises]

For me, the pull you back in and then push you away behavior has left me in limbo, the space between those 2 worlds, not really there and not really here. A paradox of happiness and sadness intertwined. And then I tried to save her with my "love" all in the while I am not loving myself as I should have always been while perpetually existing in that limbo after all was said and done. I've immersed myself in that chaos and that chaos has consumed me.

[fromheeltoheal]

For me, the pull you back in and then push you away behavior has left me in limbo, the space between those 2 worlds, not really there and not really here. A paradox of happiness and sadness intertwined. And then I tried to save her with my "love" all in the while I am not loving myself as I should have always been while perpetually existing in that limbo after all was said and done. I've immersed myself in that chaos and that chaos has consumed me.

Realize Ironman that there are women who are capable of sustained love and there is no push/pull, beyond the conundrum that the masculine always considers the feminine, that our love can be reciprocated, and framing it such that us 'saving' someone isn't as healthy as just sharing love and life with someone.

Also, watch out for the language you use: you say that chaos has consumed you.  What if it's her chaos and she took it with her?  What if you are stronger than the chaos and you will consume it, chew it up and spit it out?  What if the order, rationality and health that is innately yours will emerge as the chaos dissipates and you get your feet on the ground, become grounded, once again?  Language is powerful, we get to be careful with it.

[HarmKrakow]

I read and read as much as I can about BPD and I try to depersonalize it. I try to see her for a sick individual but her actions at times seemed so calculated that I can't just say its BPD. It's a personality disorder not a mental illness in the sense that it cuts off any form of mental reasoning, but I could be wrong.  

Something that helped me is realizing that the core issue for a borderline is they never detached from their primary caregiver and became an autonomous human when they were less than 3 years old or so, long before their brain had developed enough to think rationally and still very much formative, so their experience of the situation got hardwired into their personality and is subconscious.

So everything moving forward is an attempt to reestablish that attachment with a replacement, you, then feeling engulfed, pushing you away, feeling abandoned, pulling you back, on and on, stuck in that place between 'one' with another and their own 'self'.  That is where all the convoluted bullsht originates, and then throw in the emotional retardation that makes a borderline unable to see how they are affecting people as adults, and the resulting behavior seems mean, cruel, coldhearted, manipulative, and calculated.  But going back to the genesis of the behavior explains everything, just don't get any on ya.

Good point. Fairly aware of this. Shame that that doesn't always help to fully detach.

It's like ... she IS crazy.

OK!

...

So detach!

...

...

Doesn't work :' (

It worked for me, but OK, try this: I realized that what I missed was the feeling of being alive that I got from my borderline, not her specifically, in fact I don't even like her.  She lives in a world of perpetual chaos precipitated by the disorder, which kept me on edge full time, which felt like being intensely alive.  I liken it to how we feel when we're faced with an emergency, an intense situation where we're reacting, not acting, and later we think back and discover we felt completely alive in that situation.

The other piece that worked for me is to realize what we had was a fantasy, a buzz, a high, not sustainable emotions that can lead to long term love and commitment.  I liken it to alcohol, cocaine, meth, pot, intoxicating substances that speak to that part of our brain that wants that buzz, wants that feel-good, even when we know it's not good for us, could potentially destroy us, yet we do it anyway.  That unobtainable high that is the best the first time, and we keep going back to it again and again looking for that same high, but it's never as good as the first time.  That's not love, it's addiction.  Maybe this site could be called Bordelines Anonymous.

You are right. It was all about the drama, the excitement, the non stop rollercoaster. My time with my ex was the quickest period of my life. It literally flew away.

What you say is right. As I said, I have moved on, did everything I had 2. The unfortunate problem being that everything I do is not even near half the fun as it was before I met my ex. And come to think of it, my ex wasn't that special. Wasn't that superbly pretty, but she had this 'thing' which made it special. Still don't know what it is, but I assume it's the ability of how she could make me feel. But then again, that's all part again of the disorder... .

[fromheeltoheal]

You are right. It was all about the drama, the excitement, the non stop rollercoaster. My time with my ex was the quickest period of my life. It literally flew away.

What you say is right. As I said, I have moved on, did everything I had 2. The unfortunate problem being that everything I do is not even near half the fun as it was before I met my ex. And come to think of it, my ex wasn't that special. Wasn't that superbly pretty, but she had this 'thing' which made it special. Still don't know what it is, but I assume it's the ability of how she could make me feel. But then again, that's all part again of the disorder... .

What that is is a borderline's need to attach, not just a want but a life or death need, one they're not even aware of consciously.  A borderline MUST attach to someone else to feel whole, since they have a half baked self, a partial personality, so they get very good at worming their way into our psyche, and it feels like nothing else as you can attest.  I like the buzz as much as the next guy, but something like skydiving is probably less risky, and having a healthy, grounded relationship to live in will make it all better.  Time to go get that.

[ShadowDancer]

We decided what is fun. We decide what is special. We decide.

Stop. Look. Listen.

Life is good.

[Learning_curve74]

I often wonder if I give her power over me or whether or not she takes power over me. I don't know.  

Like so many others here, you mention "power". Isn't the true problem for both the pwBPD and the non actually denial? In many cases it sounds like both sides deny responsibility for being able to control their actions, hence the feeling of having no power over the future that both the pwBPD and the non often feel.

Feelings are another matter entirely, as you noted, it is not easy to simply wish them away and probably not healthy anyhow as your therapist suggested. Just as a physical path through the forest or jungle cannot be established in one single journey, mental and emotional paths cannot be established without repeated journeys in the direction we wish to establish. It is much easier to follow the path of least resistance which we are used to, painful as they may be. Forging new paths can be scary and hard work, but the alternative is even scarier.

Hugs to all. 

[Tryingnottoslip]

Wow I thank you all for the input, I wasn't expecting this much feedback.

All I could add on here is that... .from my tireless efforts trying to understand BPD and what the hell I went through, I read that BPD are able to move on so quickly because they cannot stand to be alone. If they are aloe, they are left with their thoughts and fears. This is something that BPDs cannot tolerate. They don't know themselves so they have to attach to someone ASAP. They have this impending doom about being alone.

You see, when I read this I can't help but to say shlt thank god I am not like that. Thank god I have the strength however scary it may be, to look at myself. When we look at other stories of BPD we quickly see how disordered they are but when we look at our own, we see this godlike demonic woman or man.  I think this is because they inflict pain on us. We perceived them as rational humans who are capable of rational thoughts thus traumatizing us.

I used to work as a security guard in a psych ward a few years back and at times it was my job to just guard rooms of aggressive patients. I used to be called idiot, worthless, dumb, my mother is a fat wh0re, and I would just say dear lord these men are just beyond gone. I feel bad for them but I wouldn't feel hurt because I understood and perceived these men as mentally well... .INSANE. We don't apply that understanding here.

[Tryingnottoslip]

Building on what harmkrakow said,

What you say is right. As I said, I have moved on, did everything I had 2. The unfortunate problem being that everything I do is not even near half the fun as it was before I met my ex. And come to think of it, my ex wasn't that special. Wasn't that superbly pretty, but she had this 'thing' which made it special. Still don't know what it is, but I assume it's the ability of how she could make me feel. But then again, that's all part again of the disorder... .

I admit my BPDex is freaking sexy but she's nothing out of this world. Doesn't have much going for her career wise. But there's something about her that made me feel so alive. A type of alive that I've only felt a handful of times in my life. But this feeling of "alive" occurred almost all the time with her. The spontaneity of it. One moment we are having sex in the shower, watching tv, the next we are taking a road trip to god knows where. Or going to the beach at 3am with her friends and I talking about everything. I miss that. I miss those times.

However, I can't I cannot take her back, I don't want to see her. I don't want to know how she's doing. She's dead to me and that's not being said with aggressive overtones.

There are much more beautiful women out there. But I haven't felt alive since.

[lightswitch]

Lettin go and lettin God!

Shadow, yes! And for you,  Trying, that's something we get to do over and over again. A lot. We might get to spend just as much time into actively letting go as we did obsessing about our exes.

... .'Borderlines Anonymous', haha. Love it.

[ShadowDancer]

It becomes a mantra... .a discipline. Something I needed... .a little discipline in my life.

[peas]

I've hit a turning point, I think.

About five days ago my attitude changed. I don't care about my ex anymore. Or maybe I have become more interested in me. Either way, when I think about my ex and the b/u, I'm not jabbed with pain. Note: this change followed a heavy relapse of missing him and wanting badly to break NC, which we have both held for four months. It was like the last throes in something about to die.   

I've stopped analyzing the past. I have stopped reliving scenes from our relationship. I just hit a point where I was so done with worrying about me, worrying about him and ruminating about the injustice of BPD. I have been extremely depressed since the breakup five months ago and frankly I'm sick of being depressed. 

I'm at a point where I don't care if he has BPD or NPB or is actually normal functioning. We didn't work out. Tough ___ for me. Okay, next.

What's significant is this is something I feel as well as think. My ex detached before he sent me packing. Took me a few months longer than him, but now I'm ready to breakup too.

I don't care if he is seeing anyone or if he cheated on me.

I don't care whether he contacts me again. 

I don't care if I contact him again.

I don't care about his friends, things and hobbies.

I don't care if he is happier or worse off without me. 

My ex was an assh*le to me, and that makes him an assh*le. Straight up. No more excuses about how he's otherwise great and it's his BPD and alcoholism that requires special consideration, or that I am to blame because I couldn't give him what he needed. Or believing that he was The One for me because we met cute at just the right time in our lives.

He is an assh*le.

[Tryingnottoslip]

Peas, my BPDex like soo many others on here was a victim of sexual abuse.

It's banal already.

I gave her immunity. A special consideration because she was raped. Is horrible. But she's old enough to realize Her actions. I made so mamy excuses for her behavior. At the end of the day, she's cruel. She used her past to manipulate me. She doesn't love me, or even consider me.

She's of cruel because she has BPD or because she's my ex... .she's cruel because of the way she treated me.

[fromheeltoheal]

I've hit a turning point, I think.

About five days ago my attitude changed. I don't care about my ex anymore. Or maybe I have become more interested in me. Either way, when I think about my ex and the b/u, I'm not jabbed with pain. Note: this change followed a heavy relapse of missing him and wanting badly to break NC, which we have both held for four months. It was like the last throes in something about to die.   

I've stopped analyzing the past. I have stopped reliving scenes from our relationship. I just hit a point where I was so done with worrying about me, worrying about him and ruminating about the injustice of BPD. I have been extremely depressed since the breakup five months ago and frankly I'm sick of being depressed. 

I'm at a point where I don't care if he has BPD or NPB or is actually normal functioning. We didn't work out. Tough ___ for me. Okay, next.

What's significant is this is something I feel as well as think. My ex detached before he sent me packing. Took me a few months longer than him, but now I'm ready to breakup too.

I don't care if he is seeing anyone or if he cheated on me.

I don't care whether he contacts me again. 

I don't care if I contact him again.

I don't care about his friends, things and hobbies.

I don't care if he is happier or worse off without me. 

My ex was an assh*le to me, and that makes him an assh*le. Straight up. No more excuses about how he's otherwise great and it's his BPD and alcoholism that requires special consideration, or that I am to blame because I couldn't give him what he needed. Or believing that he was The One for me because we met cute at the just the right time in our lives.

He is an assh*le.

Good for you peas.  I was wondering what your experience was if you sent him that letter we all discussed, and it now seems like a non-issue.  :)etachment is a process, with different stages, similar to the grief process.  Sounds like you're entering the anger stage, and good for you, that's healing.  Take care of you!

[Changingman]

Peas, my BPDex like soo many others on here was a victim of sexual abuse.

It's banal already.

I gave her immunity. A special consideration because she was raped. Is horrible. But she's old enough to realize Her actions. I made so mamy excuses for her behavior. At the end of the day, she's cruel. She used her past to manipulate me. She doesn't love me, or even consider me.

She's of cruel because she has BPD or because she's my ex... .she's cruel because of the way she treated me.

Yes this is the awful truth, she treated me to the ultimate abuse a human could. She is the smile from a nazi as they push children into gas chambers all else is forgivable. sadism is at the heart of this condition.

[fromheeltoheal]

sadism is at the heart of this condition.

No it's not, fear of abandonment and shame are.  There are a number of reasons a borderline acts mean and cruel, projection, self-loathing, shame avoidance, fear of engulfment, garden variety power struggle.  Our perspective shifts as we detach.

[Tryingnottoslip]

Changing, it is!

We have fault in it but I just don't know what to say.


I am angry at her but most importantly at myself. For putting up with it. For allowing myself to hear her bullsht. I can't. I must be strong for myself. That's the only way I can evict this bxtch from my head.

[peas]

Heal,

Good for you peas.  I was wondering what your experience was if you sent him that letter we all discussed, and it now seems like a non-issue.  Detachment is a process, with different stages, similar to the grief process.  Sounds like you're entering the anger stage, and good for you, that's healing.  Take care of you!

I was all set to send a letter. I had it planned out: I was going to write a single statement and enclose a few photos of him that I took during our better moments and liked. But fate intervened: work got extra busy so I put off a couple days getting the photos printed, then the machine at the photo printing place was broken, which delayed my idea even longer. The urge passed to break contact and I don't need to send my ex anything. 

[Perfidy]

For myself... .I don't stay in touch with any of my ex's. two exceptions. My ex wife lives with my daughter. One ex girlfriend that I don't really understand why but I stay in touch with her. I dint consider this healthy for her nor i. The BPDexgf is not one that I choose to stay in touch with. Several others I haven't needed to contact or ever hear from again. I think staying in touch or hearing from them must indicate a failure by one or both to move on. I would not even consider getting back with BPD girl. I will never hear from her again and that's ok with me. Good bye. Good riddance.

[Tryingnottoslip]

Perfidy,

Agreed. There is no reason why Anyone should keep in contact with an ex unless its because of work or there are children involved.

You break up with an ex you also break up with the family.

[HarmKrakow]

Hmm, i'm still in weekly contact with 2 of my exes. I can even consider them in my circle of best friends. I can always call them if there is any issue and vice versa. Their bf's also don't see it as a problem and I like them 2. I never understood that after a relationship everything needs to be cut of and this person who you once shared every day with, then just becomes a stranger or a person who you only deal business with.

When I had my issues with my BPD ex, I went to one of these exes and her bf's and cried and poured my heart out for days. They even let me sleep over. Made dinner for me, invited me for Christmas.

It's also because we sort of split up with the 'shaking hands' as adults rather than any black spitting which happened with the pwBPD ex. Not every relationship ends with b!tch fighting and smear campaigns. I've spent a lot of time in my life with these exes and they know me better than the majority of people around me. So I always wondered why I should throw them away? The only difference is that we don't live under 1 roof and no physical attraction. Well, that was easy! :D It was also one of the first sanity checks by my therapist.

1. Can you maintain friendships and (inter)personal communication with others for a longer period of time?

[Tryingnottoslip]

Harm, of course.

I should of put "with a crazy or toxic person"

There are exes of mine that I still have a love for and I know they do as well. But there is no attraction. I keep in touch here and there with other exes we like you said, shook hands and agreed that its best to part ways. No ill feelings or hostility.

This is completely opposite of what it is after a BPD relationship.

[Perfidy]

It is practical to cut all ties. It may not harm me or my ex. It may harm any current relationship that I might have. I would not date a person that stayed friends with their ex unless there was a super compelling reason such as children. My ex knew that I was friends with my ex and it put a strain on our relationship. Not to say that I couldn't be friends with my ex's. truthfully though... .What guy really just wants to be "friends" with someone that he has had known lust for? I believe friendship can become love. I find it difficult to believe that love can become friendship. At least for quite a while. I think it may be possible when neither person wants the other. By the time that happens both should have moved on. So it just doesn't seem realistic.

[fromheeltoheal]

It is practical to cut all ties. It may not harm me or my ex. It may harm any current relationship that I might have. I would not date a person that stayed friends with their ex unless there was a super compelling reason such as children. My ex knew that I was friends with my ex and it put a strain on our relationship. Not to say that I couldn't be friends with my ex's. truthfully though... .What guy really just wants to be "friends" with someone that he has had known lust for? I believe friendship can become love. I find it difficult to believe that love can become friendship. At least for quite a while. I think it may be possible when neither person wants the other. By the time that happens both should have moved on. So it just doesn't seem realistic.

Plus to me friendship is the core of a healthy relationship; if you were really friends the relationship wouldn't have ended.  Maybe someone's been in a situation where it was decided that yes, you are friends but you're better off just friends, and that works, I've just never done it.

[Discovery]

Do some of them go off the grid permanently because they know? they realize that they are the ultimate reason that the relationship failed?

I totally believe that for some people, they do "go off the grid permanently" because they carry a lot of shame about how the r/s ended.  And it's WAY too scary and vulnerable for them to have ANY contact because that would mean in some way having to acknowledge the existence of the person whom they have hurt so much.

My former partner severed all communication w/ me. Two of my good friends emailed him and told him what THEY thought of his cruel discard. They "stood" for me as witnesses. That was really important to me, and it was a way of saying to him: "You have been seen. People know what you did." I know that he respected my circle of friends -- and rightly so -- my friends and family are people of integrity, not the kind to trash people, really caring people who try to live a conscious, loving life. Knowing that these people see him for who he is, I know that he wouldn't have the courage to initiate any further contact with me... .he KNOWS he did something really wrong. And I believe he has gone into hiding because he could never face me or them. He does not have the emotional skills to own his part or to apologize but he knows he did something very very hurtful.

[BuildingFromScratch]

I'm of the philosophy that you should hate actions, not trust people who have breached your self, be angry at people, be understanding of people, forgive people. Because I don't really think anyone is evil. Just misguided, coping, warped, whatever. They are broken. Honestly, many of us were broken too, just not so badly that we denied reality.

[ScotisGone74]

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Re: Never hear from them again because it brings them shame? another failure?

« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 01:09:58 PM »

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Building on what harmkrakow said,

What you say is right. As I said, I have moved on, did everything I had 2. The unfortunate problem being that everything I do is not even near half the fun as it was before I met my ex. And come to think of it, my ex wasn't that special. Wasn't that superbly pretty, but she had this 'thing' which made it special. Still don't know what it is, but I assume it's the ability of how she could make me feel. But then again, that's all part again of the disorder... .

I admit my BPDex is freaking sexy but she's nothing out of this world. Doesn't have much going for her career wise. But there's something about her that made me feel so alive. A type of alive that I've only felt a handful of times in my life. But this feeling of "alive" occurred almost all the time with her. The spontaneity of it. One moment we are having sex in the shower, watching tv, the next we are taking a road trip to god knows where. Or going to the beach at 3am with her friends and I talking about everything. I miss that. I miss those times.

However, I can't I cannot take her back, I don't want to see her. I don't want to know how she's doing. She's dead to me and that's not being said with aggressive overtones.

There are much more beautiful women out there. But I haven't felt alive since.




In reflecting upon my exBPD relationship I felt much the same exact same way.   She was pretty, smart, and funny,     but she wasn't a total knockout model, she wasn't a stand up comedian, she wasn't any smarter than myself. 

I think that part of this 'alive' problem for me in the beginning was this:   Not how great, pretty, smart, or spontaneous she was, but rather how smart, funny, handsome, witty I was how perfect I was for someone else.    Much like that one Seinfeld episode I now know what I have looked to be in love with all these years-   Myself!

[HarmKrakow]

It is practical to cut all ties. It may not harm me or my ex. It may harm any current relationship that I might have. I would not date a person that stayed friends with their ex unless there was a super compelling reason such as children. My ex knew that I was friends with my ex and it put a strain on our relationship. Not to say that I couldn't be friends with my ex's. truthfully though... .What guy really just wants to be "friends" with someone that he has had known lust for? I believe friendship can become love. I find it difficult to believe that love can become friendship. At least for quite a while. I think it may be possible when neither person wants the other. By the time that happens both should have moved on. So it just doesn't seem realistic.

Plus to me friendship is the core of a healthy relationship; if you were really friends the relationship wouldn't have ended.  Maybe someone's been in a situation where it was decided that yes, you are friends but you're better off just friends, and that works, I've just never done it.

I consider myself lucky then. I broke up quite a few times with the handshake, and realization it's more brother/sister story than a true loving relationship. Hobbies and interests went their own way and you grew away from each other. Or we had to make the choice of career/relationship and we had to pick the job as we might never get a chance like that again. We broke up but that doesn't mean a straight away go ___ yourself and I don't want to see you anymore. I truly still hang out with them very often. Physical attraction is not there anymore, the rest is :P

[Tryingnottoslip]

Discovery,

I recently found out she has a boyfriend, actual conformation for the first time. Truthfully, perhaps I am just saying this now... .I don't think she cared at all after she broke up with me. When I think back at the relationship, she never cared. SHe did things that were so disgusting and shameful. Not only to me, but my FAMILY. Yeah the certainity of her having BPD is probaby 90% but I just feel as if when she thinks back at this relationship she goes "Tryingnottoslip? yeah he's immature, stupid, worthless, SUCH A BAD BOYFRIEND UGH" etc. etc. She never cared.

I could think she went off the grid because she feels so much shame coming here and looking at me in the face but I think i might be lying to myself.

[Nicco]

I thought I was doing the right thing by blocking, keeping to nc like a religious fanatic, not hearing about her. I thought doing this would help me move forward and forget about her. I thought that distance and time made the heart grow colder and eventually to a point of ambivalence. This is my first relationship with a pwBPD and I am in uncharted territory. Most ex girlfriends I got over with in a couple of months but this... .I don't know. I vacillate between not thinking about her, being hopeful about the future, to just down right depression. I miss her so f#cking much sometimes. I want to hold her, be with her, but it could never happen, I see it the same way I view a loved one that died.

I am in the same boat. I have moved on, physically. I live in a new town, in a new house, in a new bed, with a new kitchen. No memories of her here. None. I do other stuff, other hobbies and meet other people. One would think, that there is improvement in the 'i miss her less' category. There isn't. I'd take her back within a second. Now is that wise? No ...

I know she already went over a few boyfriends probably (at least 1, the rest is guessing). I miss her so much it's painful. But it's indeed not just the missing. It's the holding, the touching, the love making, the comforting, the everything. Waking up next to her in bed etc. All of it. I would cross an ocean for a day of re-living that honeymoon phase. Seriously. [/quote]
How much i understand you... .i quote every single word... .damn... .

[Nicco]

Sorry but in my last post up here i made a mess quoting other people and i can't find any EDIT botton to solve.