Love

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have been on here.  The last time I was, I said I was going off of Facebook, because he wouldn't stop bothering me there.

Well, sadly, I ended up getting sucked up again.  I still never saw or talked with him, but I did engage in email conversations with him. He would beg me to come back and be his friend, and I would, and a few days later he would turn into a monster, and insist that I see him and have sex "one last time" so that he could leave me alone.

This time, when I said no, he went crazy, like usual, but he attacked my character in a deeper way.  But this is the part that had me thinking.  He said that his love was based on KNOWING THAT I LOVED HIM BACK.  Now that he knows that I don't, that makes me a fraud and a "princess" and then he blocked ME.

Does this make sense?  Love based on one loving you back? 

[PM10]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have been on here.  The last time I was, I said I was going off of Facebook, because he wouldn't stop bothering me there.

Well, sadly, I ended up getting sucked up again.  I still never saw or talked with him, but I did engage in email conversations with him. He would beg me to come back and be his friend, and I would, and a few days later he would turn into a monster, and insist that I see him and have sex "one last time" so that he could leave me alone.

This time, when I said no, he went crazy, like usual, but he attacked my character in a deeper way.  But this is the part that had me thinking.  He said that his love was based on KNOWING THAT I LOVED HIM BACK.  Now that he knows that I don't, that makes me a fraud and a "princess" and then he blocked ME.

Does this make sense?  Love based on one loving you back? 

[Ironmanrises]

Love based on one loving you back... .?

That is a need... .

Not love.

I am sorry you experienced that again.

[PM10]

Thanks.  I thought it was not love, but I really get so caught up in what he says that I end up not knowing WHAT to believe!

He did always get mad that I didn't need him the way he needed me.

Another observation I had is that he would get upset if I was spending time with my daughter, or if I was enjoying a project I was working on.  I would say something about that to him, and he would say that of course he wants me to be a good mom and to enjoy what I'm doing.  But I understand that he feels that way ONLY IF HE IS INVOLVED.  I don't think that is love either.  To wish someone well, but only if it includes them.  My mom was that way.

It was my own fault for participating in the cycle yet again.  It seems like I will never learn!

[Ironmanrises]

Welcome.

I can understand... .

How you would end up... .

Feeling like that.

That is the manipulations.

It hurts.

I know.

My exUBPDgf... .

Told me in discard of round 1... .

"My feelings/love for you... .

Were an illusion... ."

She comes back to me... .

3 months later... .

Begging and crying... .

"I want my man back... ."

I let her back in... .

Tells me in discard of round 2... .

"Your love for me was fake... ."

I know how you feel... .

About getting caught up... .

In that.

After what I experienced... .

Twice... .

And from those 2 responses... .

From her... .

As she left me... .

Both times... .

There is no win... .

At the end.

None.

I wanted to scream... .

When she said that... .

To me.

It didn't matter... .

At that point... .

No one... .

Would have heard me... .

Scream.

I was tumbling through space.

Hang in there.

As you can see... .

You are not alone.

[Learning_curve74]

It was my own fault for participating in the cycle yet again.  It seems like I will never learn!

PM10, you're being pretty hard on yourself. It sounds like you ARE learning though, right?

From the experiences here, it does seem common that pwBPD have a "need based love". It's a lot like small children and infants that live the source of their food and comfort. And they can often be very jealous too, maybe this is fed by their intense fear of abandonment?

How are you feeling right now? If you just need to vent, go for it, you're among friends here.  

[Waifed]

It sounds to me that you were pretty strong.  I don't think you were sucked in because you stood your ground.  I don't know what to think of the Love question.  I am trying so hard not to over think things anymore and I am trying to focus on the fact that it was BPD and because of that there is no looking back.  Unfortunately the relationship just won't ever work, no matter what.  I think this makes it easier and harder at the same time, but it is what it is and we all have to carry ourselves out of this chapter of our life. 

We all need to look at it as an opportunity to better ourselves and to look at the positives.  It could be a lot worse.  We could be the BPD person.  I pity every one of them.  I couldn't imagine being abused in some form as a child like many of us were AND then develop a PD.  They are like a tornado that destroys everything in their path, but they have received the cruelest fate of all.  I know many (including myself) like to bash on BPD but every once in a while we need to look back at the fact that this is a serious mental illness that none of them signed up for and their actions are just ways for them to get through life one moment at at time.

[Turkish]

We all need to look at it as an opportunity to better ourselves and to look at the positives.  It could be a lot worse.  We could be the BPD person.  I pity every one of them.  I couldn't imagine being abused in some form as a child like many of us were AND then develop a PD.  They are like a tornado that destroys everything in their path, but they have received the cruelest fate of all.  I know many (including myself) like to bash on BPD but every once in a while we need to look back at the fact that this is a serious mental illness that none of them signed up for and their actions are just ways for them to get through life one moment at at time.

You are right, waifed... .you are right. If I were to write my story down side by side with hers, I had it a lot harder in quite a few ways. However... .

me never having a father, was probably better than her having a emotionally unavailable, abusive (physically and emotionally), and serially unfaithful father that she had. Add to the fact that her father also probably has BPD (hard to tell due to the cultural difference... .he is from the old country), her brother, possibly her sister... .that there is a genetic component. I need to let some of my anger go, without tolerating further abuse or Caretaker behavior on my part.

So sad.

[Turkish]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have been on here.  The last time I was, I said I was going off of Facebook, because he wouldn't stop bothering me there.

Well, sadly, I ended up getting sucked up again.  I still never saw or talked with him, but I did engage in email conversations with him. He would beg me to come back and be his friend, and I would, and a few days later he would turn into a monster, and insist that I see him and have sex "one last time" so that he could leave me alone.

This time, when I said no, he went crazy, like usual, but he attacked my character in a deeper way.  But this is the part that had me thinking.  He said that his love was based on KNOWING THAT I LOVED HIM BACK.  Now that he knows that I don't, that makes me a fraud and a "princess" and then he blocked ME.

Does this make sense?  Love based on one loving you back? 

That's not love. Not even close. Mine detached from me when she perceived my detachment, due to the pressures of a mature, adult relationship (two kids, mortgage, careers) AND due to her emotional and verbal abuse of me. If she loved me, she would have tried harder (her trying was telling me she was unhappy, and then listing demands of where I could change to make her happy!). Leaving is one thing.

Having and affair while still in our house, is another. Especially when I was home at night taking care of our children. Wounding their father goes with that... .which means she doesn't even really love them, except to fill a need to have unconditional love, because at this age, they don't know any better.

That will change when they get older, especially with our boy. I experienced the devaluation myself from my mother when I got older. It;s horrible, and causes one to detach emotionally from that parent. Then... .you become the Rescuer and the Caretaker. And the cycle repeats.

[Waifed]

We all need to look at it as an opportunity to better ourselves and to look at the positives.  It could be a lot worse.  We could be the BPD person.  I pity every one of them.  I couldn't imagine being abused in some form as a child like many of us were AND then develop a PD.  They are like a tornado that destroys everything in their path, but they have received the cruelest fate of all.  I know many (including myself) like to bash on BPD but every once in a while we need to look back at the fact that this is a serious mental illness that none of them signed up for and their actions are just ways for them to get through life one moment at at time.

You are right, waifed... .you are right. If I were to write my story down side by side with hers, I had it a lot harder in quite a few ways. However... .

me never having a father, was probably better than her having a emotionally unavailable, abusive (physically and emotionally), and serially unfaithful father that she had. Add to the fact that her father also probably has BPD (hard to tell due to the cultural difference... .he is from the old country), her brother, possibly her sister... .that there is a genetic component. I need to let some of my anger go, without tolerating further abuse or Caretaker behavior on my part.

So sad.[/b]

It is so sad, for everyone.  This is especially true when you add innocent children to the mix.  Turkish, I think you will be a happy man in a couple of years or less.  Once you get away from your stbx you will be able to start healing.  I wouldn't expect you to be done with your anger yet but once you do you will be well on your way! 

[bpdspell]

Does this make sense?  Love based on one loving you back?  

Of course it won't make sense; your dealing with a mentally ill person with an emotionally unstable sense of self. The one thing about BPD that's tried and true is that once the mask is dropped what you see is what you get: inconsistency, confusion, push/pull, manipulation, distorted thoughts and lots of projection. Your ex will continue to show you who he is at his core as long as the doors of communication are open.

When we look beyond the physical bodies of our ex's they are emotional children. They are stuck between the ages of 3-6 and this is how you need to see your ex; as a child. Seeing him as a child will help you to see him for who he truly is; not who you want him to be.

For BPD's love=need... .the need for you to meet their bottomless needs, to dominate... .the need to control... .the need to define the narrative... .that what kids the ages of 3-6 do... .they are self-centered, all about me... .and bossy... .

My ex was pretty damn good looking; physically stunning. So it was quite difficult for me to accept that someone so good looking could be so emotionally undercooked. I certainly overvalued his looks... .

PM10. I guess you're wondering if your ex ever loved you but my question to you is do you love yourself? It's a hard question to ponder but one worth exploring. Many of us on here desire love from a person who has no concept of self-love, respect, value or worth. But in truth they cannot give to us what they cannot even give to themselves.

That is the disorder of BPD: shame, abandonment pain, rage, anger, and self-hate. Now how is that going to love us in the way that's based on reciprocity?

It could be a lot worse.  We could be the BPD person.  I pity every one of them.  I couldn't imagine being abused in some form as a child like many of us were AND then develop a PD.  They are like a tornado that destroys everything in their path, but they have received the cruelest fate of all.   I know many (including myself) like to bash on BPD but every once in a while we need to look back at the fact that this is a serious mental illness that none of them signed up for and their actions are just ways for them to get through life one moment at at time.

And this shows such insight and such compassion so thank you for this Waifed.

[PM10]

Thank you all for your responses.  My biggest struggle throughout all of this, I think, is truly believing that he is has a disorder, and that his behavior is not healthy. Well, I know it is not healthy, but I think somehow that it is my fault.  I believe all that he says. 

Right now I just don't understand why I keep emailing him.  Part of it is that I feel really bad, and responsible.  I have almost too much compassion for him, and zero anger.  I wish I could feel some anger.  He keeps insisting that I have to be with him since I said I loved him.  That saying that is an irrevocable contract.  Like I'm the only one who has decided that a relationship with someone they love is not working out.  He is divorced, so I am not sure why this concept is beyond him, although it did just occur to ME that I am not the first to do this.

I feel trapped, like a prisoner, and don't know how to get out!  He of course has contacted me again.  He is angry that I didn't make up a new email address to get around his blocking me.  I don't know what to do!

[patientandclear]

He is angry that I didn't make up a new email address to get around his blocking me.

Wow, that is truly a BPD classic!

PM10, can you see what he's doing to you?  He blames you for the consequences of what he's done, and you're taking that on board.

Reminds me of when my ex broke up with me, and refused to see me & did it by email, and then after a few weeks of me protesting by email and then helplessly subsiding & "accepting" what he decided because, after all, it's a love r/s and both parties ultimately do get to decide whether they want to continue to be in it, and I couldn't make him have different feelings than he had, etc., ... .he lapsed into wondering why I wouldn't talk to him, why I hadn't fixed it.  In his mind it really was as if I had left him, and he was the wounded one, and the abandoned one.

You've got to hold onto reality here.  You pulled away (every time) because he abuses you.  You have done nothing wrong or bad to him.