Dancing on a pin

[struggling_dad]

Hello,

I'm thankful to have found this board, and appreciate the efforts others have put in to sharing their experiences.  It's heartbreaking to read many of these stories, but at the same time it feels good to connect with others who are in similar situations as my family.

About me:  Father of four, married to an amazing wife / mom - who continues after 20+ yrs to be my dream girl, and best friend.  We very much wanted to have kids, but it took a few years to happen - and once it did we went from one to four fairly quickly.  We've raised our family in an upscale suburban neighborhood, with a few moves between well respected public schools, and private schools.  There is a 4yr spread between our oldest, to youngest.  Oldest being 18, youngest 14 now.  For the most part, a textbook happily-average life until our oldest daughter hit 13ish.  My wife and I often look back and search for clues, or precursors of how we wound up here - instances, or occurrences that we could grasp onto, but there isn't any one event, or even clusters of events that could be marked as turning points.  Nor can we be certain if there is any history of BPD, or other mental illness in the family.  Like all families, we've had typical ups/downs, and relative we might be able to assume had a disorder, but can't be sure.  In a nutshell, we are in the dark as to how we officially got here.

Became apparent as our oldest daughter entered her teen years that she struggled with interpersonal relations.  She would latch onto certain friends in what seemed to be pools of emotion.  She wouldn't do well in groups, always wanting to isolate one friend to herself - and eventually losing all friends in the group.  This would happen over, and over as the friends would wind up isolating her.  My wife and I would lose track of the friends that she would bring home - one day her new friend was the most amazing person she'd met, the next day it was her worst enemy (the early splitting behavior.)  The lengths she'd go to (as she progressed into junior high grades) in order to obtain friends became very troubling.  Lying, stealing, and other inappropriate behavior.  We stepped in, and moved her to an out-of-area private school to give her a new start - an era of resentment she will often grasp to during outbursts.  The behavior continued at the new school, eventually all her new friends had enough of her games and isolated her as well. 

The covid years ramped up the trouble in our home with our 2nd born son now falling off his own rails.  Similar to our oldest daughter, there was no clear answer as to the root of issues with him either - bullying PTSD?  ASD?  The only diagnoses we've got to date is ODD, and ADHD.  We have top docs who believe he is on the spectrum, and others who adamantly verify he is not.  Perhaps a different presentation of BPD?  I've done the reading to know that ASD & BPD can present very similar - but our son (now 15) refuses to see any doctor.  The oldest meanwhile wanted to put some distance between herself, and her family / hometown after high-school, this seem to provide motivation to do what was required academically to get there.  She is currently in post secondary many, many miles away.

"Dancing on a pin" is what I describe we've been doing for years in order to keep our oldest moving forward.  Tolerating behaviors that are toxic, destructive, and generally poison to the family.  It's only that much more vivid now that she's not living at home - her visits are draining, and while both my wife and I struggle with the stress - recently it would appear as if this is taking a toll on my own personal health.  My wife is much stronger than I am in setting boundaries with her, and she's sunk her teeth more into me - her first semester was a constant blizzard of drama.  I consider the most time consuming, and draining job I have as the Chaos-Moderator.  Doing what I need to do in order to keep her moving forward, as my biggest fear is the destruction she will impose on our family if we can't get her to a point in life where she is self sufficient.  And at this time she is refusing any type of treatment.

While both my oldest daughter, and son participate in triangulation behaviors - attempting to pit my wife and I at each other, it's almost added a bit of some well needed humor through the last few years - we're way to bonded, and strong for those shenanigans.  However, the oldest has now ramped up the game to a vicious level - and while it's not anymore successful, it is very disturbing and taking a toll on our mental well being. 

And as typical, I've not mentioned the youngest two yet .. who are now at an age to recognize that their older siblings are more than just badly behaved, or rebellious.  The two that excel not only in academics, but also social well being - that so unfortunately receive the leftovers of what Mom & Dad have to offer.       

I'll leave it there for now, and once again express how pleased I am to have found this board, and hopefully the support of others who are experiencing similar roads traveled. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[SaltyDawg]

Welcome to BPD family.

I feel your pain, I am a father of 2  (16 yo and 11 yo) who have had significant issues - anorexia nervosa [AN], and oppositional defiance tendencies [OD] respectively.  Both are straight-A students, and each is on the opposite end of the socialization spectrum.

I see no mention of therapy.  I would strongly suggest getting the older two into individual therapy to address the issues sooner rather than later.

Perhaps add a 3rd one for the entire family too, but start with the individual therapists for each of the children with issues.

Ask questions, or drill down on my SaltyDawg name to see more of my story to see if anything resonates with you.

Take care.

[struggling_dad]

Thanks for the response.

Unfortunately our oldest refuses to engage therapy, and most health care in general.  She maintains to; "know better than all of them".  And our son .. first he mastered the art of offending, scaring, and generally pissing off resources.  For the last 18months or so he refuses to engage at all.  He does attend school, but other than that spends 95% of his time in a 9x6 bedroom with the door closed.

About six months ago our oldest walked in the house after agreeing to see a psychiatrist and announced; "I have BPD, I could have told anyone that but I guess now that the doctor says I have it it's official."  She was given an script for meds, (I believe in the antipsychotic family), attempted to take for a few days than quit.  She was also take birth control that the family doc suggested would help with mood - that too she quit.

I personally do see a therapist, I use it as a resource to understand the conditions and bring tools home to share with my wife.  Unfortunately my wife had a horrible experience with a therapist, and while she's trying to work herself up to join me I'm not pushing it.

Although our oldest has many of the hallmark behaviors of BPD, my therapist isn't convinced her diagnosis is 100% accurate.  Claiming it's possible she has it, but also believes that BPD became a tiktok sensation during covid and teens are known for walking into docs offices announcing symptoms that perfectly align.  And yes, like most teens our oldest is addicted to her phone.

My wife and I often banter about the likelihood that our our oldest, and son might be both be dealing with the same condition.  We're certainly not psychologists, and don't pretend to be - but perhaps they both have the same condition that is presenting differently.  Either ADD, or BPD.  There is so much crossover between ASD, ADD & BPD it's very difficult to assess, especially when teens are being hit with music choreographed social media that expresses disorder symptoms on a cool factor scale. 

So here's where we are at the moment:  My wife has masterfully been able to take a situation with our son where three years ago he was tossing projectiles at her, police would have to be called, hospital stays, etc. to a point where she has set up process with him to study, and keep moving forward in school.  Our entire home has adjusted to work with our son on process that seems to work best - most days aren't great, some days feel like big wins.  The two youngest have gone from ignoring / fearing him to becoming supports for him - that can be very difficult most days, but they hang in there.  And while my wife has slipped into the lead roll with my son, somehow I fell into a similar roll with the oldest .. and while they both triangulate with my wife and I, when our oldest engages in the manipulation it's so disturbing that we both have a hard time supporting her.  The visceral reaction is to pull away - which we realize is the same reaction they've been faced with for years while trying to maintain friends, and failing.  Nonetheless, very difficult.

Thanks for reading.




 
     

[SaltyDawg]

Unfortunately our oldest refuses to engage therapy, and most health care in general.  She maintains to; "know better than all of them".  And our son .. first he mastered the art of offending, scaring, and generally pissing off resources.  For the last 18months or so he refuses to engage at all.  He does attend school, but other than that spends 95% of his time in a 9x6 bedroom with the door closed.
Your situation sounds troubling.  My D lso arefuses to see a T [therapist] as she was in a mental hospital for months for her AN and resents what they represent.

About six months ago our oldest walked in the house after agreeing to see a psychiatrist and announced; "I have BPD, I could have told anyone that but I guess now that the doctor says I have it it's official."  She was given an script for meds, (I believe in the antipsychotic family), attempted to take for a few days than quit.  She was also take birth control that the family doc suggested would help with mood - that too she quit.
Birth control does moderate the hormone dump during that time of the month when my uBPDw's triggering issues would noticeably worsen.  Generally BPD doesn't respond well to med's [none are officially listed in the DSM V] and they are generally used to address comorbid issues and/or symptoms.

I personally do see a therapist, I use it as a resource to understand the conditions and bring tools home to share with my wife.  Unfortunately my wife had a horrible experience with a therapist, and while she's trying to work herself up to join me I'm not pushing it.
That's great, don't stop, especially if you click well with the T.  Perhaps, pick some of your lesser issues that you can readily admit to, and have your wife pick on you, or something you can mutually agree upon with the kids, so she see can see some positive benefits from her perspective, to get her back into seeing a T.  Do not use it as a place to be critical of her, that will chase her away.  a good T will ask probabative questions so she can see what she is doing.

Although our oldest has many of the hallmark behaviors of BPD, my therapist isn't convinced her diagnosis is 100% accurate.  Claiming it's possible she has it, but also believes that BPD became a tiktok sensation during covid and teens are known for walking into docs offices announcing symptoms that perfectly align.  And yes, like most teens our oldest is addicted to her phone.
Most psychiatrists or psychologists will not diagnose those under 26 as their mind is still in development. I would suggest reading Randi Kreger's book on "Stop Walking on Eggshells" - 3rd edition, to do you own assessment on what you are dealing with, I found to be extremely helpful.

My wife and I often banter about the likelihood that our our oldest, and son might be both be dealing with the same condition.  We're certainly not psychologists, and don't pretend to be - but perhaps they both have the same condition that is presenting differently.  Either ADD, or BPD.  There is so much crossover between ASD, ADD & BPD it's very difficult to assess, especially when teens are being hit with music choreographed social media that expresses disorder symptoms on a cool factor scale. 
TikTok and social media trends are troubling.  Look at the book I mentioned, often less than the cost of a copay.  BPD is on a spectrum, and there are 4/5 major types of borderline which presents in different ways.  Read up on it, learn about it, to make informed decisions on what to do.

So here's where we are at the moment:  My wife has masterfully been able to take a situation with our son where three years ago he was tossing projectiles at her, police would have to be called, hospital stays, etc. to a point where she has set up process with him to study, and keep moving forward in school.  Our entire home has adjusted to work with our son on process that seems to work best - most days aren't great, some days feel like big wins.  The two youngest have gone from ignoring / fearing him to becoming supports for him - that can be very difficult most days, but they hang in there.  And while my wife has slipped into the lead roll with my son, somehow I fell into a similar roll with the oldest .. and while they both triangulate with my wife and I, when our oldest engages in the manipulation it's so disturbing that we both have a hard time supporting her.  The visceral reaction is to pull away - which we realize is the same reaction they've been faced with for years while trying to maintain friends, and failing.  Nonetheless, very difficult.
Work with your T on this.

It sounds like your situation is worse than mine, and I feel for you. 

Be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you, so you can maintain your sanity while working through all of these issues. 

Take care, and ask more questions, you can vent here. 

[struggling_dad]

Appreciate the compassion, and will check out the book.

[Couscous]

I highly recommend seeking out counseling from a systems trained family therapist. You can go alone if need be, but I think your W will be pleasantly surprised to find the family systems approach is very different from traditional psychotherapy. Best wishes to you.

[Couscous]

Your daughter sounds like she might have an "alpha complex". I found this interesting article about this phenomenon: https://macnamara.ca/portfolio/reclaiming-the-lead-with-an-alpha-children-in-the-lead/

[LifewithEase]

struggling dad,

Just wanted to welcome you. Our challenges with BPD are different. You with a child, me with a wife.

Your writing is fantastic. Especially the concept of Dancing on a Pin for my family. I'm closely watching and engaging with my kids as they experience a BPD mother. I'm noticing more and more unfortunately behavior pick ups.

They are young enough that they just think what uBPDw does is normal. Yet, at the same time, as they mature, they are doing just that - acting mature and notice "how Mom gets."

Now mind you, my uBPDw is high functioning on many levels and not like the internet's stereo type of tattoos, cutting, and drunk crash cars.

Keep writing. I'll be reading and when I can sharing insight or resonance.