Nothing normal about having been a "daddy's girl"

[Notwendy]

We didn't keep in touch. I moved after graduating but already things had changed. It used to be I'd drop by and we'd hang out. I wasn't seeing anyone at the time. I found that this happened when a girl friend got interested in a guy- time with him became priority. This seemed to be a common thing with some women I knew, but to me, I didn't think it was an emotionally healthy thing to do. I wanted to keep my female friends and spend time with them.  I didn't want to make a guy the center of my attention. I think that is a sign that even though I was co-dependent, I wasn't to that extent.

What changed after marriage was when kids came along- and they became priority and at this point, my friend circle diminished.

I kept on dropping by to see my friend, but he was usually there, and he creeped me out. Red flags everywhere. I could sense overt disfunction. Wanting to hang out then seemed like I was intruding and she didn't make any effort to keep the friendship.

Do emotionally healthy people feel butterflies with other emotionally healthy people? I believe so. I also think they keep their heads on straight through them though.

[Couscous]

I am reading a book about relationship addiction that I stumbled upon at the library called Leaving the Enchanted Forest relationship, but it applies to any kind of addiction, including codependency. Women who stay in abusive relationships usually suffer from relationship addiction, and usually withdraw from their friends and focus all their energy on their love object.  

Here’s what the authors say about "butterflies":

Although we have been socialized to think of this obsession as love, in fact, the compelling allure of its spell has little to do with the depth and enduring quality of true caring. Addiction to another person is what “falling in love” feels like—it is the wild abandon of the enchanted forest. The crucial distinction between relationship addicts and other people who fall in love is that the former expect this fleeting phase of a relationship to become a Utopian endless summer that sustains forever the poetry, the ecstasy, and the feelings of merger they experience in their infatuation.

I think I could easily have ended up in an abusive relationship but I overcompensated for this tendency by becoming emotionally anorexic and only got into relationships with men I had no romantic attraction for — until I met my now H. I had major butterflies for him, but I "pre-screened" him fairly well. Of course I did ignore the red flag of his possibly being a mama’s boy, and he just told me yesterday that this might have been a deal-breaker for the woman he had dated before me…

I think if my H wasn’t so emotionally unavailable (possibly due to his enmeshment with his mother), I could easily have completely lost myself in our relationship and I could have become "addicted" to him.

That said, I’m slowly working through that book, and it has been very triggering for me. :/

[Notwendy]

One of the "Laundry List" traits of ACA is "choosing emotionally unavailable partners to meet our own abandonment needs". Clearly, our parents were emotionally unavailable to us at least part of the time. I think for my H, emotional unavailability is a part of his own family upbringing. I think this is one reason he was attracted to me- as I do show emotions.

It's interesting our expectations of relationships. I didn't expect some enmeshed utopia. I know one of my childhood ideas was wanting a normal family, but I don't think I knew what a normal family was. I just had some idea of it formed from my friends' parents and other families I observed. I did feel butterflies for H and in addition, his family fit the picture I had in my imagination. He is not a mama's boy thankfully, but his mother was emotionally stable.

One of my unspoken hopes was that maybe I'd be able to have some kind of "normal" mother-daughter relationship with her and while she was kind to me, this didn't happen.
It's not that she didn't like me- she did.  It's that in her own way, she had emotional limitations herself.

The dynamics in my marriage replicated my role in the family in that I had to over-function emotionally- make a large effort to try to emotionally connect with my H. On one hand, I think he liked that, having not had this growing up. On the other hand, I think it also made him feel smothered and so he pushed me away. Then, I tried even harder. Eventually, I just stopped. It's not my job to manage his emotions. He's more comfortable with some distance. Strangely - through doing that, I feel more comfortable with distance too. Is it possible we choose someone who is less emotionally available because it in a way, feels safer to us too?

[Riv3rW0lf]

The dynamics in my marriage replicated my role in the family in that I had to over-function emotionally- make a large effort to try to emotionally connect with my H. On one hand, I think he liked that, having not had this growing up. On the other hand, I think it also made him feel smothered and so he pushed me away. Then, I tried even harder. Eventually, I just stopped. It's not my job to manage his emotions. He's more comfortable with some distance. Strangely - through doing that, I feel more comfortable with distance too. Is it possible we choose someone who is less emotionally available because it in a way, feels safer to us too?

Mmmm... Based on my previous relationship, I also wonder if my emotional needs were not just too intense for anyone emotionally available too? Like...it would have completely recreated the dynamic, but I'd have been the abuser, expecting them to help me out figure out myself, when it isn't their work.

By being with an emotionally unavailable ish man (more that he just doesn't have the same level of empathy, and is a bit more self centered than I), he came with strong boundaries that he loved me, but I was the one that had to deal with my inner turmoils
 He never even tried to do it for me. And it made me healthier in the long run.

I think we seek to balance ourselves out.

[Couscous]

Is it possible we choose someone who is less emotionally available because it in a way, feels safer to us too?

Oh yes, totally. As a teenager I vowed that I would never allow myself to fall in love so that I would never have to go through what my mother went through when my dad left, and I was absolutely miserable in my first two relationships. After those experiences I decided that I was going to have to be willing to take a risk with my H, and he was the first physically available man (i.e., not married and/or not living in a foreign country) that I ever fell for, and I thought I was taking a HUGE leap. Little did I know just how safe I was playing it because it turned out that he was emotionally unavailable.

But to his credit he does take on board the various podcasts and relationship books I ask him to listen to and read, and even though he’s mainly trying to "please and appease me" and be a "good boy", he did tell me that these things have been making an impression on him. I think what also helps motivate him is knowing that it I will be more "in the mood" if we are more emotionally connected, especially since I am pulling back a little from caretaking him in that area. And just to be clear, I am not withholding in any way, but I have learned that it is not actually good for our relationship for me to do my wifely "duty" out of obligation.

[Notwendy]

it is not actually good for our relationship for me to do my wifely "duty" out of obligation.

  exactly. I think though that- not to stereotype but it seems to be that way- women and men are wired differently in that area. I also read something about it. Both men and women can connect sexually and emotionally but the starting point is different. With men - it's sex. For women (I know that I am like this) the emotional connection is first.

I agree that doing something you don't want to do ( whatever that is) leads to resentment.It was our MC who worked with me about saying yes when I meant no--and how not to do that. However, she made the distinction between doing something you absolutely don't want to do and doing something you don't want to do but you are willing to do it. Willing doesn't lead to that kind of resentment.

So even if H and I weren't communicating well, I didn't want to close the door to the one way he could connect. I think that would end a marriage. But in this case, the distinction between "willing" and "absolutely don't want to- saying yes when it's a no" is important.

Likewise, he has to feel safe saying "no" as well.

[Riv3rW0lf]

However, she made the distinction between doing something you absolutely don't want to do and doing something you don't want to do but you are willing to do it. Willing doesn't lead to that kind of resentment.

I agree with this.

Also that in my own relationship, it becomes a cycle. If I am never willing to be intimate with him, it becomes harder and harder to connect with him emotionally too.

Since my memory of sexual abuse came to light, I completely shut down that side of my marriage, even realized I had been hiding behind the fact I had a baby... Who wasn't really a baby anymore. But I'd hide behind that.

Our strategy now involves just laying in bed next to each other and cuddling. We always end up talking, then kissing, then because it is so slow, it gives me the time I need to warm up to him, and connect emotionally. But the need to take this time is primordial to me enjoying it and feeling safe now. They don't call it preliminary for nothing ! It's for us !

And usually, communication is a bit easier.

I am lucky though, my H is very understanding and safe. He really is a gentleman. He lets me know when he is starting to really need it, but never in a pushy, aggressive way.. more like a heads up.

I personally find that it's like the chicken and the egg at some point. I end up needing the intimacy to open his door to emotional connection too. While for me, communicating, kissing and hugging would be enough, it isn't for me. But in the end, we both need to be fulfilled to connect. That's where the willing vs absolute no is very important.