Crises and what’s wrong with me

[Ozzie101]

Last night, was one long argument (by phone). H blew up at someone at work and his boss’s idea is that H should come be in the office one week a month to get better integrated because that’s been a little rocky with H fully remote. H is fine with that. Wants me to go with him sometimes. I say, sure, I’m sure I can try to work something out with my supervisor. He hits the roof. No. I should just tell them what I’m going to do and they can deal. Yeah, that’s not how my office works.

Anyway, later he got a call from his mom’s neighbor telling him that she had a medical episode a few days ago. He tells me (again, over the phone because he left the house before I got home from work). He asks what he should do. I said if I were in his place I’d try to call and probably go up there (2.5 hours away). We got cut off. I called back. Left a message. He texted he’d call back.

Over an hour passes. By the time I talk to him, he’s up there. He talked to his mom and she was fine. So what should he do? I suggested he stay the night. He said no, he wants to come home. Ok. Come home. Then he gets angry at me for being insensitive and telling him to come home instead of staying with his mom.

As he often does, he focused on money. His mom has me in her will so even if something happens to him first, I’ll be taken care of. Says my family wouldn’t do that for him. No, probably not. He’s an only child and her sole heir. And she and I have a great relationship. He barely tolerates my parents, we have no kids together and they have five kids and seven grandkids as heirs. If I died first, I doubt they’d leave anything to him. Not that I said that. He told me he was going to change his mom’s will and his insurance in favor of his ex-wife (who his mom hated). Fine. I really don’t care.

My more measured, diplomatic approach to things and my need to think things through before acting drives him nuts.

He then turns it to my uncle who killed himself three years ago and criticized how I got the news and hurried to see my dad and grandmother. Yet I’m insensitive about his father who killed himself (before I knew H) because my reaction to hearing about him wasn’t as emotional. He seemed bothered that I went to see family instead of turning to him for support — he was the first person I called after getting the news and I leaned on him and shared with him that evening when I got home. Another uncle died in an accident before I was born and H made disparaging remarks about him and how he died.

Looking back, I’m angry. And at myself for just letting him talk. I knew getting angry at him or changing the subject would have set him off more so I just went to my happy place and shut up.

This morning he’s apologetic. Says he needs to work on handling things better and not getting worked up. Uh, yeah, I’d say so. Of course, with him “taking a break” from therapy, I’m not sure how that will happen.

I’m frustrated with myself for getting angry and fighting back and probably escalating parts of the argument. I’m frustrated with him for taking his fears and guilt and anger out on me. I’m tired of being accused of things that I didn’t do or weren’t “wrong.” I’m tired of him bringing up things I said or reactions I had years ago.

I can see where it’s coming from. He has a lot of insecurities with work and with us. He’ll admit it himself that he pushes me away because deep down he believes I won’t stay. Could turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy. He also has a lot of unresolved feelings and problems from the past (particularly his parents). I try to validate. I try to be understanding and get at what’s underneath. But it seems everything I try fails. I try to build closeness in the good times, but lately we can’t go more than a couple of days without an episode.

I know this is all part of the deal but it’s been worse lately and I’m having more and more trouble managing. And I just really start to wonder: is there something wrong with me? Am I doing this to him? Am i really a selfish horrible thoughtless person?

[jordan_bg]

Ozzie, I don't know you , but i am going to assume that you are NOT a horrible selfish person. I can say this pretty confidentally because your conflict (that wasn't even a conflict!) could have been line for line a conversation i've had with my husband. He talke me in circles to the point where by the end i don't know which way is up and I'm half-conviced its at least mostly my fault.
When he can't get a reaction out of me right away (when i'm trying my damdest to respond like all the books say!) he'll start picking at me in other ways COMPLETELY unrealted to the problem at hand and often ahving to do with my deceased mother or my parents divorce, or my realtionship with my dad, etc, anything he can use against me really, any point he knows i'm vulnerable. Even though i know he's doing it out of insecurity or whatever it still always hits home.
I can also relate to what you said about the good times being too few and far between. When there's little to balance out the bad, it gets really really hard. I always liken those episodes to getting the wind knocked out of me, I need sufficient time to recover afterwards. I'm sorry I don't have any solid advice or words of encouragement, I just wanted to let you know that I completely understand and it is not your fault. NOT. YOUR. FAULT.
While we all have to accept at least 50% of the responsability for our relationships, we don't have to believe that we are bad or selfish people just because we have human reactions.

[Ozzie101]

Thank you, jordan!

It is difficult, especially in those moments. I’m sorry you experience something similar. It’s amazing sometimes the mental acrobatics they can perform in their arguments. The other night (another moody night for him), he was angry that his ex had bought a brand new bat for their son for Little League when H had already bought him one. (Ex spoils the kid rotten but that’s a whole other story.) somehow, he equated that to the fact that my nephew plays competitive tennis. “It’s exactly the same thing, isn’t it?” I’m still scratching my head over that one.

Anyway, H was apologetic and back to his usual self last night. Lots of apologies. Lots of “it’s not your fault” “I don’t know why I do that” “I need to find a way to manage my anger and not lash out at you because it’s never about you.” I’m not so quick to recover or to regenerate those warm fuzzy feelings.

Since he’s back to baseline (for now), I’m going to lay out my plan: if he’s upset about something, I’m happy to have a conversation. He’s been good lately about leaving the house when he’s in a mood. But from now on, I will not text, talk on the phone or be around him when he’s like that. If we can have a genuine conversation, great. If not, either he or I will be somewhere else. Phone off. He’ll be supportive of that — until he’s upset and needs someone to lash out at. But this way I’m protecting myself and my feelings about him.

It’s something I should have done long ago but I’m afraid I can be a little slow.

I also need to work on self-care. I’ve gotten lax about that. What do you do to “fill your cup” so to speak?

[formflier]

Hey Ozzie101

I had really bad day a few days ago as well..just the weirdest conversations.  When I reflected back...I could have done a number of things differently and my day would have been different.

Are you far enough removed to do that with your day/long argument?  What do you think now that you read your story again?

Best,

FF

[worriedStepmom]

It’s something I should have done long ago but I’m afraid I can be a little slow.

I also need to work on self-care. I’ve gotten lax about that. What do you do to “fill your cup” so to speak?

When we know better, we do better.  You've recognized a problem and have identified a potential solution.  Good job!

For self-care, I am a BIG fan of making yourself a list of all of the things that make you smile, and then doing at least one thing on the list.

My list includes everything from "paint my nails" to "go on vacation".  Some nights, I only have the energy to go outside and breathe in the scent of the gardenias for a few minutes. But I've at least proven to myself that I'm valuable and deserve that bit of pampering.

Keep adding to your list as you think of things.

[formflier]

  Some nights, I only have the energy to go outside and breathe in the scent of the gardenias for a few minutes. 

Hey...start a thread or make a "challenge" for this next time you go "sniffin"

Outside on my back deck with a favorite beverage...no electronics..sometimes a book but most of the time not.  Just me..beverage.. chair and enjoying the solitude, smells and sights.

Maybe I'll beat you to making a "self care challenge thread"...my P remarked to me yesterday that I haven't been myself for a few months now.  We are doing some digging to see if it's a season or something to be concerned about.

However..one thing is true..I've been elevating the needs of others (primarily my elderly Mom with dementia..over mine)  Understandable..but no sustainable.

Oh...Hey Ozzie101...I'll put my gun away and stop the thread hijack...   

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Hey FF,

Looking back, I should not have engaged. Honestly, I played a part in keeping the argument going. When someone makes accusations or statements I know aren’t true, my reflex reaction is to argue or correct. Not helpful. Not worth it. I should have recognized the mood he was in and said something like “yeah, the more frequent trips will be an adjustment but we’ll figure it out. What do you want for dinner?” If he kept pushing, I could have just firmly but kindly told him I wasn’t going to talk further. With his mom, I think I handled everything fine at first but once it was clear he was in combative attack mode I should have cut it off.

I struggle with shutting him out when I know he’s hurting and sometimes I fear that could make things worse and reinforce a “you don’t care” mentality. Or that he might do something stupid or destructive. But I have to protect myself. He has to be responsible for his own behavior and learn to self-soothe or manage his emotions in a healthier way. My T had suggested laying my plan out for him so when it happens, there are no real surprises. He won’t like it and will probably push back, but I’m feeling more prepared and resolved to do what I need to do.

I LOVE gardenias, Stepmom! Our new house has a huge one right by our deck. When we moved in it looked dead but our yard guy said to wait and see. (I think the hard freeze and excessive snow we had in February had an impact.) Sure enough, green leaves popping out all over! No blooms yet and there might not be this year but I have hope.

[Cat Familiar]

Things were pretty rocky with my husband when I first arrived here. In fact, a friend told me that she was sure I was on the road to a divorce.

Nowadays there’s almost zero conflict.

How is that possible?

As you mentioned, I no longer engage when he’s on the path to dysregulation. I catch it by noticing voice tone, black and white thinking, agitation, etc.

This is not the relationship I imagined having, where I could talk to my partner about anything and everything. Lots of times I feel like a primatologist watching an angry male subject.

There are lots of benefits to me in being in this relationship, so I tolerate the emotional dysfunction as *baggage* and go on my merry way. But it’s hard, even though we now get along well. Being around someone who is regularly grumpy, has a victim mentality, is seeking to blame externals for his own emotional discomfort, who tries to blunt his emotional pain through alcohol, buying himself expensive things (he’s trading in his 7 year old Mercedes sports car for a new Porsche that he’s ordered—he can afford it, but it violates my sensibilities    If I wanted a new car *I don’t*, I’d buy a hybrid).

But being around someone who doesn’t take responsibility for his emotions, or not until he acts out inappropriately and then realizes it— it’s not like having a healthy relationship partner to lean on.

The only way this thing works is if I steadfastly refuse to take responsibility for his emotions and separate myself when he’s behaving poorly. (This goes against all my assumptions about what it means to be a compassionate human being, but it seems to work well with someone who is BPD.) 

[formflier]

 Honestly, I played a part in keeping the argument going. When someone makes accusations or statements I know aren’t true, my reflex reaction is to argue or correct.  

You and me both...a couple of times lately I've "nibbled"...maybe I didn't take a full bite of the invitation to argue...but I kept it going at low level of grumpy for a while.  Honestly not sure why I did it...really wasn't thinking.

Sometimes I think the low level stuff is worse that what it seems you had (the big accusations...).  Yes those are bad, yet there is a blowout and he is back to normal fairly soon.

I would get a couple "canned statements" such as "Oh babe..I'm not able to talk about that right now (do not "name" the thing), I am able to stay on phone and offer support."

Then...more accusations.

"I can offer support or leave the phone call, which would you prefer."

no answer

"Click"

The first couple times will take ENORMOUS STRENGTH on your part and you will likely actually "feel worse" than after the long argument.  It will take a couple times for the new "mental groves" to take hold.

And yes...it is much easier to write it than to do it...but you know you have to..right?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Lots of times I feel like a primatologist watching an angry male subject.

Oh...here comes bad FF.   

I dare you to show this to your hubby!   You have an angry man...and a primate.

FF's Dare to Cat Familiar

There are tons more of these out there..always make me smile.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

That’s it, Cat. It really does go against my sensibilities. I’m a helper. A fixer. (Familiar around here, no?) So it won’t feel right and I will struggle with guilt. But it is right.

I absolutely know I have to, FF.

In a way, my current job is helping me with this. Every day I try to help people in bad situations — mostly through mediations. Often, people are upset/angry and want more help than I can give. It’s hard because sometimes these people are in a very bad position. But I know what I can do (legally) and what I can’t. In the 15 months of working here I’ve gotten better at stepping back, not beating myself up for it, and telling the consumer firmly but empathetically “I can’t help.” I’m learning to let go of the responsibility and guilt over things I can’t do.

Very similar here.

[formflier]

My P makes a big deal about using the words "can't" instead of "won't" (or other related words).

"I'm not able to do (blank)."

sometimes I add "right now".

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I showed those ads to my hubby and we had a laugh, FF.

I think one of the most difficult issues for nons is that our partners can at times seem like logical, reasonable people. While other times...

As Once Removed said in another thread, they are BPD always; it doesn’t come and go, and the dysfunctional responses are often triggered by stress.

So I prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and enjoy the moments where things are calm and functional.

I imagine it’s like being with a partner with a disability, except the disability is invisible. But it’s there all the time...

[formflier]

I showed those ads to my hubby and we had a laugh, FF.

 

You rock...I dare you to explain why you were laughing harder...   

Best,

FF

[ThanksForPlaying]

Ozzie - sorry to hear about your uncle.

My cousin killed himself about 6 months ago and it was super difficult - and also set off some of the same BPD triggers. At the time, it was late at night and uBPDgf broke down (she knew my cousin and became emotional) while I was kind of in shock and just quiet, trying to process it. She got mad at my 'lack' of reaction and said if I didn't go 'be with my family' immediately, then she would lock me out of the house. So I did, and it was fine, although it would have been fine to 'be with them' the next day too. She later said "what if that would have been me and no one cared?" So in this case, she was just thinking about the level of 'emotion' she would want me to display if it had been her. Understandable, but still a very BPD reaction. In reality, I know there would have been a rant either way. Had I rushed out the door immediately, she would have been upset that I 'handled it wrong' and left her alone. It was a no-win situation.

SHE was upset about this unexpected stressful event, and therefore whatever I did that night was going to be the target/outlet for her stress. She was going to criticize my handling of the situation and 'teach' me or 'tell' me how to solve the problem better (because she has no idea how to self-soothe and handle her own emotions). So I became the outlet (happens all the time in a relationship with pwBPD)

If I stay, I'm wrong, if I go, I'm wrong. That's how I see it. So in the future I just have to make my best, educated, thoughtful decision, and deal with the inevitable rant. It would be so nice to have a partner who could soothe and discuss and help me work through these emotional situations, but that's not possible in this relationship. I have to get that elsewhere - like here! And with a therapist, family, and friends for support.

Another classic example of this push/pull that we've been working on through the pandemic is the work-from-home dynamic. She says I'm "always in front of my computer" in my office and that she "never sees me". She feels ignored when I'm in the same house, but not focused on her (even though that's just what "work" is). She also feels ignored when I leave the house for work "you work all the time". In reality, when I work from home I spend much more time with her during the day - lunches, errands, breakfast, etc. And she ALSO complains at the same time that I don't "give her enough space" and I'm just smothering her and controlling her all the time. So it's "you work too much" and "you don't give me enough space" in the same argument.

We've gone through several cycles of me going to the office until she declares I need to spend time at home, and then after a few weeks of that, she can't stand me anymore and can't be around me and needs space. And repeat. It's very black/white thinking, all or nothing. There's no moderation.

Ideally, two adults would be able to spend time together and take some time for themselves, and make minor adjustments to keep everyone happy. With BPD, it's often MAJOR changes that need to be made IMMEDIATELY, despite the fact that a couple days ago, the situation seemed fine.

When all else fails, use the trunk monkey haha.

[Ozzie101]

The work issue comes up frequently for us too. Working from home wasn’t a problem. The trouble tends to come when I go in to the office. For months, I had to go in two days a week. Now it’s four. Most of his dysregulations happen when we’re apart.

Anyway, one of his big sticking points is that I put work first, that it’s my priority. He insists he’s always willing to blow off work for family. When we’ve talked about working and priorities during normal times, I’ve told him that for me, doing my best at work and bring a responsible employee are ways of putting my family first. It’s helping to support our household. H tends to disagree. My job isn’t as flexible time-wise. But I don’t work overtime or anything like that. When I’m off, I’m off with plenty of time to cook, hang out, etc.

The lack of flexibility seems to be a big part of what gets to him. Other than that, I’m not sure why he thinks my work cones first — except I know that was an issue with him and his first wife too.

[jordan_bg]

Hello again,
The replies on this thread have been really interesting, and at the same time leave me kind of scratching my head...
I see so many saying, basically, "My partner can't meet my needs, I never know when things will blow up, I don't have a true partner, but if i'm really really good at how i react i can maybe, sometimes, avaoid some conflict"
Can I ask, are any of your partners on medication? In some kind of treatment? i'm so confused about what I read here because I kind of thought with medication and treatment living with BPD would look different but I don't see anyone here talking that way so I guess that's why I ask. @cat familiar, I see that because YOU are managing your reactions better conflict is down but you stil lhave to deal with impulsive behavior and don't get the emotional support from your partner. I'm not in your relationship and I don't want to judge, I'm just genuinely curious about how you came to the "acceptance" phase of all of this and if your partner has done anything to change.
Same question for @thanks for playing. I often feel the same way, damned if i do, damned if i don't, and I can't seem to get past the unfairness of that. @ozzie, most of the dysregulation happens when you're apart, well, you have to go to work but what about "optional" activities? Do you worry about saying you want to do things without him? I do, to the point that most of the time i just don't.
I'm still undecided about the future of our relationship, but after 13 years of emotional abuse I just don't know if i have it in me to do all this work for someone who has done me so much harm. What do I get out of being in a relationship with a partner who isn't one?
I'm really, really strugggling with this.

[formflier]

Most of his dysregulations happen when we’re apart.

Hey..sometimes it's helpful to "flip" things.  So...what if you worked 5 days a week and when you went to work you didn't communicate with your hubby?

Perhaps he has a number to the front office he can call if someone is suddenly hospitalized or perhaps there is some "legitimate" emergency.

Why not agree with him 100%?  "Yes..during work hours my work is my priority.  Looking forward to coming together for a meal at 6pm."

Best,

FF

[ThanksForPlaying]

jordan_bg - You're starting to ask yourself the right questions.

No one here would hold it against you if you walked away from a relationship. I see two key issues you're wrestling with.

1) "someone who has done me so much harm"
2) "what do I get out of being in [this] relationship...?"

While I happen to be committed right now to making my current relationship work with uBPDgf (3 months pregnant)... there are certainly things that could change that would make me walk away.

Namely (1)... I need to have boundaries and limits set on the amount of harm I'm willing to accept. pwBPD are skilled at dishing out an enormous amount of harm to others, often because they have experienced much harm themselves in the past. It often escalates slowly over time, pushing our boundaries to levels of harm we didn't know we would ever accept because each incident is only "a little worse" than the last one - that's why enforcing boundaries is important. We wake up one day and we're dealing with hospitals, police, etc and wondering how the harm levels got to that point.

As for (2)... Everyone on this board would also (hopefully) have a few nice things to say about their pwBPD. Otherwise I agree with you that there is zero reason to stay (and you'll see some posters here who have left the r/s because there was nothing good left). There are some threads occasionally started here about the good stuff - the board just leans more toward addressing problems.

In my case, uBPDgf has a very creative mind which is amazing to be a part of when the BPD is temporarily on the backburner. She also is capable of compassion and caring when she's 'good'... Stuff like teaching children how to paint (mixing creativity and caring).

At this point, (1) doesn't outweigh (2) and I'm staying in the relationship for now. Nothing is black/white or set in stone - I'm always allowed to re-evaluate my situation. But I need to be careful to not re-evaluate my original boundaries and just start allowing more and more harm.

Even though it's an "acceptance" phase and I sometimes say things like "I'll be dealing with this forever"... What I really mean is "I'll be dealing with this forever unless enough boundaries are crossed that I decide to leave". It's never too late to get out.

[ThanksForPlaying]

I guess my point above is that all relationships have (1) bad stuff and (2) good stuff.

pwBPD are capable of generating a lot of (1) bad stuff in very hurtful and confusing ways...often subtle... often with gaslighting... often covering it up so people outside of the relationship don't see it.

pwBPD are also capable of generating a lot of (2) good stuff in the honeymoon phase and through the beginning of each recycle.

Much like a "normal" relationship where you have to weigh (1) vs (2), we do the same thing with a BPD relationship... It's just that (1) and (2) are full of extremes, and hard stuff to "weigh". That's why we have this board to help 

[Ozzie101]

FF, we’ll talk during lunch and send a random text at other times. Sometimes he’s busier than I am with meetings and projects. The problem comes when something happens to set him off. I think he got used to having me there to stabilize him. If someone says something that upsets him, he gets in a thought spiral that gets out of control. This doesn’t just happen with work. We can be together all day, he can go run a few errands and - boom.

The work issue isn’t so much that we can’t talk. We can most of the time and it’s not an issue. It’s that he’ll suddenly decide I’m inflexible. Or he’ll get angry if he gets an idea to go out of town or something and I’ll say I have to talk to my supervisor. “You should demand it.” Or “you should demand a raise.” He thinks I’m a pushover. Maybe I am. But I’m also not going to go in and talk to my bosses the way he wants me to.

Again, this is when he’s already “on edge.”

To answer one of your questions, jordan, yes, I do find myself avoiding solo activities just to avoid the dysregulation (or just moodiness) that usually follows.

[ThanksForPlaying]

"Self-soothing" is a skill that children learn but that pwBPD often never developed. Basically it's just the ability to calm yourself down on your own. Babies usually don't have it (long tantrums if left unattended) but at some point, they develop it and that's why tools like "quiet time" or "time out" can help a child calm down (I'm not sure of the general timing of when this skill develops, but you can see it when it happens).

We have this same issue during times when I am unavailable. It can be a pre-planned meeting. "I have this meeting today from 1pm to 2pm" and somehow during that hour she's left the house because she got in a fight with someone ELSE, and needs some "space", and is crying and drinking somewhere.

My theory is that this is a minor "abandonment" and I haven't found a way to avoid the disregulation. Talking about it ahead of time only seems to increase the chances that she will find something to be upset about during that time. I'm now thinking maybe SET ahead of time would take the edge off a little.

Jordan - there was a time where I didn't want to leave the house because on more than one occasion she had locked me out when I came home. I was trapped in my house by fear of being locked out after running a few errands solo (because of whatever grievance she had created in her head during the time I was away). I knew I couldn't live like that and I've just started doing things anyway. I threatened to call the police one time and she unlocked the door. It hasn't happened since. Although she has now started sometimes leaving AFTER I get home because she just "can't be around me" after whatever grievance has occurred. But for the most part now, I just do things solo when I want to, and things are usually more calm (not sure if she's still having these episodes in her head, but I'm seeing less of them).

[formflier]

Hey...something to consider (and I'm likely not communicating it the best)...

When you find areas where you can agree and "get on the same page" with your pwBPD...do it.

When you can agree/get on the same page...and that gets you relief from the effects (mostly negative) of BPD...that's like winning the lottery.  Right?

So.."yep...not flexible."  "Nope..can't talk more than 15 minutes at lunch, will be available for a walk and talk tonight"

So..even though your work is "actually" more flexible..."agree" with your hubby and behave as he believes..."no flexibility".

I think it's entirely likely that he will dysregulate and return to baseline and you will be blissfully ignorant.  I'm not saying it will "always" be that way...I do believe you will expose yourself to less BPD that way and maybe...just maybe...he will learn to self soothe a bit better.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hi jordan_bg, to respond to your question, my husband and I get along great about 95% of the time. I did change my behavior and learned to “listen” better to his emotional responses. Lots of times it’s just noticing a facial expression or a subtle change in voice tone or cadence.

How I’ve changed my behavior is that I had a habit of being a “fixer” and wanting to help whenever I could. To him, that pattern felt demeaning, as if he was incapable and I needed to rescue him.

The truth is that often he was behaving as if he was incapable and needed rescue. People with BPD are far more insecure than they let on. But if we try to “help” them with these issues, it’s one of those “no good deed goes unpunished” things.

There were a lot of other ways I didn’t realize that I was invalidating him too. So over time, I essentially stopped *trying* so hard and just paid more attention and backed off when I saw he was getting uncomfortable.

I think a lot of people (me included) when they first arrive here think, “Oh  I’ve been trying so hard with this relationship and now I’ve got to learn all this new  to make things better. Why is it always my problem?”

For me, the irony is that I just started to take care of myself better, figured he’d find solutions to his own problems and if he didn’t, well that was on him. And in the long run, I no longer fret about his issues and we get along better.

He does still behave impulsively at times—nothing too whacky, boundary busting, or illegal, thank goodness. But he does want to emotionally support me—though he can’t do that when he’s wound up himself. He does very nice things for me and supports me in a multitude of ways and I know he has my back.

So yes, these relationships can work. Much depends upon how affected one’s partner is by the dysfunction.

[Cat Familiar]

Ozzie some tough love incoming...

I sense you get a lot of your feelings of self worth through helping others. Nothing wrong with that, but by managing your husband’s emotions, you are keeping him infantalized. He needs to learn self soothing skills and he never will if you regularly swoop in to rescue him from his emotional distress. And honestly, does your emotional rescuing ever really work or is it just a bandaid fix?

Since this has been a long-standing pattern with the two of you, it will precipitate a major extinction burst. Don’t even try this if you are not in a good place to handle it.

Once you decide you do want to change this pattern, you will have to be committed 100%, no going back to “fix” his emotions no matter how upset he gets. If you do, you will set back your progress and it will teach him to get even more out loud to get you to respond.

This pattern has slowly developed over time and it will continue to stay the same or get worse. He will demand more of your time and attention since his demands have worked so far.

I sense that he’s been triggering some of your insecurities with his accusations: you care more about your family than him, you won’t stand up for him, you are a pushover, you are inflexible, your work is more important than him, you don’t like his son, you don’t care, you’re insensitive...

You hear these things, and want to defend yourself, and away things go...over and over. What if you no longer did that?

I finally got to the point where I’d agree with the accusations if there was a smidgen of truth in them. “Yes, I’m self absorbed and selfish.” (So what, isn’t everyone? I’m supposed to be perfect and that means caring totally for your every need and not thinking for a moment about myself?   that!) I have an active internal dialog that uses very foul language.  

Interestingly, once I started agreeing with him about my *personal failures as a human being* it took the *fun* out of it for him to accuse me of these things and he quit doing that.

I’m not suggesting that you don’t help him when there’s a real need, but discerning what that is will take some finesse.

[formflier]

So yes, these relationships can work. Much depends upon how affected one’s partner is by the dysfunction.

Hey Cat...I'm curious if you can expand on how "interdependent"  your lives are and if there are certain areas you have been deliberate to "not depend on him" so that his dysregulations don't matter as much.

I've generally been successful in improving my relationship, yet raising children together (large family) provides plenty of opportunities for BPD to "strike" at the worst possible moments.

Sure..most of the time it doesn't really matter so it doesn't have to devolve into a yes/no thing...but there are times...and they are still quite entertaining (to be polite).

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

We spend a lot of time apart, even though we are nearly always in proximity on our property. He likes to read and watch TV—endless games—all sports seem to be of interest...and then there’s movies—he loves old and new movies.

I can handle about 1 hour of TV at night and that seems like more than enough for me...sometimes two if it’s a good movie.

I’m outdoors gardening, taking care of animals, riding my horse, etc. If I’m indoors, I’m a news junkie—he is to some extent too, but can get overwhelmed.

A big change we’ve made is that he does all the cooking now. He’s better at that than me. I was vegetarian for most of my adulthood, so I am not skilled at cooking meat. We get 6 days of food from organic meal plans and he cooks it all.

I do all the cleanup, as I’m a clean freak and his standards don’t match up to mine. It’s the same with cooking. If I were to cook, nothing would be done at the same time and I’d either over cook or undercook meat.

Though he gripes about cooking all the time, I think it’s really boosted his self esteem. And I mention we can trade and that shuts down the complaints.

He’s been taking charge of some outside tasks, such as maintaining the irrigation system for the lawns. Over time, I see this as a big step in building his self confidence.

We each do integral things, but mostly do them by ourselves. He gets irritated if I come into the kitchen when he’s cooking and I completely understand.

[Cat Familiar]

Here’s a great article about emotional manipulators that we all can benefit from reading:  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nine-signs-youre-dealing-emotional-manipulator-dr-travis-bradberry/

[Ozzie101]

You’re exactly right, Cat. We’re in a bad pattern, built up over the last 4 years. Yeah, it will likely not be pretty when I pull back. I’ve already started to do it some. I no longer rush in to try to rescue him. I’m better at being detached. Not perfect. I still need a lot of work. But, in a way it’s like dealing with a toddler/young child. You have to be firm holding the line. Otherwise, they learn that if they just escalate the tantrum, they get what they want.

In a way, he’s not getting what he wants now. I’m not doing what he wants me to do most of the time. But I’m working and will continue to work on being more mindful.

I’ll keep that in mind — agreeing, FF. It won’t slow him down but maybe over time...

Cat, I’m going to give that article a good read.

[ForeverDad]

Can I ask, are any of your partners on medication? In some kind of treatment? I'm so confused about what I read here because I kind of thought with medication and treatment living with BPD would look different but I don't see anyone here talking that way so I guess that's why I ask.

People are all different.  So are those others in our relationships.  So one single answer just doesn't exist.  Many flavors of people, hence a variety of responses are appropriate depending on the situation, severity, etc.

About meds... Yes, meds can moderate the behaviors.  But while they may be a solution for Bi-polar which is viewed as largely a chemical imbalance, that's not as applicable to Borderline behaviors.  Sure, it can help to some extent but there are limits to the benefit.  And when many stop their meds, then what do you do?  It's an acting-out Personality Disorder.  Meaningful therapy over years is generally needed.  The big problem is that there is extreme Denial and Blame Shifting.  Typically anyone and everyone is Blamed since it can't be that person's responsibility, culpability or fault.  (Admittedly no one likes to be at fault but the reality is that we all are sometimes at fault for something or other.  When the Denial or Blame Shifting is to an extreme, that can be an indication of BPD.

In my case, after separation and divorce starting in 2005 and being in and out of family court until 2013, finally the best magistrate there put in writing in a decision that my ex would benefit from counseling... but declined to order it.

In my case, there was a point where the discord rose to high conflict.  Not at first, the behaviors gradually worsened, we had been married for over a decade.  We even went to a reproductive specialist to have a child.  (I innocently thought she would have a more positive outlook on life if we had children and she could enjoy watching our child enjoy discovering life.  Wrong!  Having a child did not fix her deep issues, it made things vastly more complicated, especially when the relationship continues to nosedive and fail.)

In my case, it had become high conflict by the time our son was three years old.  I could see the Biblical hand writing on the wall.  I realized I should have sought help long before it got that bad.  Best I could do was protect myself and my parenting as best I could.  Slowly I started working on Boundaries even though I didn't quite know how to do that.  Of course, that triggered my then-spouse to create even more conflict.  And our marriage imploded, police were called, she was later arrested for Threat of DV, she made increasingly scary allegations, fortunately CPS stated they had "no concerns" about me and that was the start of 8 years in and out of domestic court until eventually I had a court order that worked — the final six years until he became an adult were relatively minimal conflict.

Of course we have a mix of issues on this board.  Some just arrived, some have been here for years.  (I arrived in late 2005 and 'lurked' until registering in early 2006.)  Some have "difficulties", others have higher levels of chaos, discord, sabotage, obstruction, conflict.  We don't recommend every relationship continue — and you decide — some are just too dysfunctional, unhealthy and legally dangerous to continue.

So perhaps these are some appropriate questions...

• How dysfunctional is the relationship?
• Can it be improved with use of tools and skills encouraged here?
• Will your partner work with you to improve the relationship?  Or obstruct you?
• Will your partner see the benefit of seeing a therapist for meaningful therapy long term?