Feeling Dazed

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi,

I am new here. I had signed in yesterday.

I had written quite a bit on my into thread.

I have been reading articles and threads.

Wow - wow-wow.

When I read all of this, I just want to give up on this relationship.

I lose most of any hope of ever being able to have a stable, healthy, peaceful relationship with my fiancé.

I am so exhausted now, from two weeks of amped up misbehavior, while also enduring intense suicidal rages.  Am so tired of her acting up in front of friends/family, of her causing so much concern and then shutting people out so they cannot know how she is doing, whether or not she is alive or dead, etc.  She is very upset that several people were very concerned about her suicidal threats last week, and they called 911.  She is so angry that she is refusing to talk with friends when they check in on her, out of concern.  She will not answer the door, the phone, or acknowledge them in any way. I know all of her few friends are fed up, even though concerned.  If she keeps it up, she will have no friends left.

I was already quite tired. I am even more tired after reading all that is going on for others, as they try to stay with their SO.  I am not sure I can do more with/for her.  I am thinking its time for me to just let go and put my life back together without her.  I know it won't be easy.  I do love her and am very concerned about her. Yet, it seems to be just such an endless struggle, a seemingly bottomless pit.

I read the article links given to me in my intro thread.  Great info, but so frightening, as so much is exactly what I have been experiencing with my fiancé. It all feels so toxic to me right now. 

I am so tired, so sad, so grief-stricken right now. :'(

I need to try a nap to see if I can re-group.

Thanks for your support.

In Exhaustion,

Remington

[Remington]

Hi,

I am new here. I had signed in yesterday.

I had written quite a bit on my into thread.

I have been reading articles and threads.

Wow - wow-wow.

When I read all of this, I just want to give up on this relationship.

I lose most of any hope of ever being able to have a stable, healthy, peaceful relationship with my fiancé.

I am so exhausted now, from two weeks of amped up misbehavior, while also enduring intense suicidal rages.  Am so tired of her acting up in front of friends/family, of her causing so much concern and then shutting people out so they cannot know how she is doing, whether or not she is alive or dead, etc.  She is very upset that several people were very concerned about her suicidal threats last week, and they called 911.  She is so angry that she is refusing to talk with friends when they check in on her, out of concern.  She will not answer the door, the phone, or acknowledge them in any way. I know all of her few friends are fed up, even though concerned.  If she keeps it up, she will have no friends left.

I was already quite tired. I am even more tired after reading all that is going on for others, as they try to stay with their SO.  I am not sure I can do more with/for her.  I am thinking its time for me to just let go and put my life back together without her.  I know it won't be easy.  I do love her and am very concerned about her. Yet, it seems to be just such an endless struggle, a seemingly bottomless pit.

I read the article links given to me in my intro thread.  Great info, but so frightening, as so much is exactly what I have been experiencing with my fiancé. It all feels so toxic to me right now. 

I am so tired, so sad, so grief-stricken right now. :'(

I need to try a nap to see if I can re-group.

Thanks for your support.

In Exhaustion,

Remington

[Want2know]

I'm so sorry you are feeling so exhausted.  I know the emotional roller coaster that you are riding - having feelings of love for her and then dealing with the realities of her disorder.  That was one of the hardest periods of my life.  Big hugs to you! 

A couple of things I wanted to mention.  First, you don't have to make any decisions today.  Give yourself some time to absorb the information you are reading on our site and to process your feelings.  The Lessons on this board are great and can help with your decision, as well as the many members who are here for you.  Baby steps.

The reality is her behavior will probably not change much, especially if she does not want to seek counseling.  There is a term that is used a lot on the Staying board - 'radical acceptance'.  Is this something that you think you can do?  Accept that how she is today may be how she continues to be?  There are tools on the Staying board that can help, if you want to take a look over there in their Lessons.

You mention she is your fiance.  Do you have specific wedding plans yet?

[Remington]

Hi Want2know!  Happy Valentine's Day!

I've been determined to have a good day today and not focus upon my fiancé

today, since she is not talking to me anyway.  I gave out dark chocolate all day, as I went from meeting to meeting, from place to place and had friends over for dinner!   I kept busy, joyful and focus was on the present moment as much as possible.  I find the present moment focus key for me and it really adds so much to each experience.  It helps me to truly enjoy each experience.

I had a few moments of sadness. I was wishing it was possible for her to be with me and with others today, enjoying the day, the people, the experience.  Yet, she is giving me the silent treatment, even today.  (I know she is sitting in her apartment, hiding out. Her roommate has told me she is deeply depressed and goes nowhere, etc.)  I am sorry for her depression.  I hope she will ask for more help for her depression.

I had a good time today.    I am reasonably outgoing and truly enjoy people.

I am understanding that I feel freer to be myself without her with me.  I love people!  I love to interact with people!  She does not enjoy this, she avoids this.

We are definitely opposites in this area.  I have more fun with others when she is not around, pouting.  I have fun with her when we are alone and she is in a good mood, or regulated.  She does not like to do things in groups, ever.  She always wants 1:1 interaction. While I feel this is appropriate for a couple some of the time, it's also fun to balance this with some social time out with others, too.

My friends feel she is a killjoy.  They tell me I am too sociable for her and they feel she drags me down.  They tell me they see me having much more fun when she is not with me.  I need to think about this.

Thanks for your insights, Want2know.

I have heard of Radical Self- Acceptance.  I think Tara Brach wrote a book on this?  I should look it up.  I had read her book when it first came out. (I have read many mindfulness books over the past 20-30 years.  Have tried many of the practices, etc.)  Radical Acceptance is takes this a step further, I think? Thanks for reminding me of this idea/concept/teaching.  I can always use reminders.

I am not sure I can accept her continuing to be how she is today.

I cannot accept this, to be honest.

I don't want to live like this.  I am not happy living this way.

If I have a partner, I want a partner whom will also like to socialize, likes to have fun, etc.  In observing her behaviors this past year, I am very concerned that she will insist our lives/home is as isolative as the way she lives now.  This would feel like some kind of imprisonment to me. I would not be able to do this.

If I want to go out and socialize solo, I don't need to get married.

I am starting to feel like she and I are mismatched as spouses.

Yes, we care about one another.  Yet, there is more discord than not.

What is it they say-- marital arguments are usually about money, children and sex?  Well, we have no children together.  I have an adult daughter.  She has no children.  Not likely we will fight about children.  Money?   Well, I feel her spending habits are out of control. I feel we will always have financial stress, as she seems to want to spend every cent.  I am very disciplined with money, savings, etc.  Sex?  Well, when she isn't upset and withholding, the intimacy is great.  It's when she starts to use sex as a manipulation that's it's a real turnoff.

Wedding plans?  On hold.  I had wanted a long engagement. Now I want to either break the engagement or wait even longer, if she will get more help. I will not break the engagement right now if she will show signs of sincerely wanting/getting more help.

I appreciate your reminder that I don't have to decide today.  It helps.

Thanks again, Want2know.

Remington

[Want2know]

Glad you had a good day yesterday.  Making connections with people is a great way to spend the day. 

I have heard of Radical Self- Acceptance.  I think Tara Brach wrote a book on this?  I should look it up.  I had read her book when it first came out. (I have read many mindfulness books over the past 20-30 years.  Have tried many of the practices, etc.)  Radical Acceptance is takes this a step further, I think? Thanks for reminding me of this idea/concept/teaching.  I can always use reminders.

Yes, she did.  We have a link here about radical acceptance - check it out:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I am not sure I can accept her continuing to be how she is today.

I cannot accept this, to be honest.

I don't want to live like this.  I am not happy living this way.

If I have a partner, I want a partner whom will also like to socialize, likes to have fun, etc.  In observing her behaviors this past year, I am very concerned that she will insist our lives/home is as isolative as the way she lives now.  This would feel like some kind of imprisonment to me. I would not be able to do this.

If I want to go out and socialize solo, I don't need to get married.

I am starting to feel like she and I are mismatched as spouses.

Yes, we care about one another.  Yet, there is more discord than not.

This is a very honest statement and is really important to remember as you continue on with her.  Two people can love each very deeply - it doesn't always mean that they should be married or partnered.

Wedding plans?  On hold.  I had wanted a long engagement. Now I want to either break the engagement or wait even longer, if she will get more help. I will not break the engagement right now if she will show signs of sincerely wanting/getting more help.

This sounds like a reasonable and caring plan.  There are many people out there who are just not ready (and may never be) to do the work - therapy.  My bottom line for my relationship with my person with BPD/NPD was that we do couples counseling.  He initially agreed, and then balked.  I knew we were done then.  There was no way I was going to continue on the way we were without him showing some sign of wanting to work things out.

I hope the best for you in your situation.  Keep making those connections and taking care of yourself in the meantime.  We're here for you when you need us. 

[Remington]

Thanks again, Want2know.

You had asked some great questions.  Very helpful.

I had a great day yesterday.  As people were lingering after dinner at my home, the phone rang at 10pm.  My dBPD fiancé was on the other end, her tone upset, was telling me she was just calling to see what I had wanted when I had called and left her a message yesterday morning?  I had called and had left a message of "Happy Valentine's Day" and I'd love to see you. I am inviting you to join in a small dinner gathering at my home tonight.  If you don't feel up to joining us, I am happy to stop by to see you, even briefly, just 1:1.  (I had wanted to offer to meet her where she was at, if she did not feel up to contending with a group. I was willing to see her alone for awhile.  I know she is very depressed and does not want to do much right now.)

I had also sent her flowers.  (She did not mention the  flowers, until I had asked if she had received them.  She thanked me, said they are beautiful, during her call at 10pm.) 

I did not hear back from her until 10pm.  She was initially upset with me.  Upset that I had gone through with having friends over.  (It seems it was either I sit home alone, go out, or have friends over.  She did not get back to me until the day was over.)

I had  said it was good to at least hear her voice on Valentine's Day.  She then told me she was only calling to see what I had wanted, for no other  reason.  (?  The entire content of what I had said was on her voicemail and she admitted she had heard the content. She was continuing to deny she was calling to make contact with me, she kept saying she just had a duty to respond to the voice message. I had also sent flowers.)

I stayed calm and asked her how she was doing?  She talked a bit and I was silent, just listening and then offering very brief statements, summarizing what I had heard her say.  She lightened up in a hurry.  She then was heading into her seductive mode.  I was kind and gentle, while turning her down, by redirecting her attention. I  was very tired and wanted to just relax. I have been so exhausted.  I also did not want to talk longer, nor spend the night with her, as I feel it is likely to turn into yet another mess at this time. 

(I don't want to get together just for sex.  I want to cultivate a life together, a well-balanced life.  I am a guy and often hear people saying guys will take sex whenever they can get it. I don't feel like this idea is fair to all guys.  I want deep love and connection first.  Without this sense of connection, physical intimacy doesn't feel comfortable to me.  I can get disconnected sexual experiences in many places, easily. I am not interested in this.  I am interested in deeply loving and deeply respecting my partner.)


Tara Brach also has a video on "Learning to Respond, Not React."  She mentions using the "Pause."  Through many years of studies/practice, I have trained myself to utilize a "Pause."  This helps me out so much!

I think its ok to leave a link?  If not, please edit this link out?  www.youtu.be/Ar-L41QMYCM

I often review her video series on "Vulnerability, Intimacy, Spiritual Awakening." She is just one of the many awesome "mindfulness" teachers.  www.youtu.be/kc8WGMuF3KA Outstanding teachings.

I am glad to know "mindfulness" teachings are finally being integrated into mental health teachings and into therapy/skills techniques. 


It's been helpful for me to get some extra sleep, to connect with others, to pause in the midst of the crises of my SO.  I have allowed her to do what she needs to do, have offered to meet her where she is at, have offered to include her in my social life, etc.  I have gone ahead with my day, despite the fact that she has held off on answering me or letting me know what she wants.  Her actions speak loudly. She did her Valentine's Day her way. I did mine my way, without ignoring  her.

Want2know,  you are very kind and insightful.  I am sorry your SO wBPD/NPD was  not willing to get more help.  This is hard to understand and difficult to accept, often.  Thanks for working on your own healing and for reaching out to others.

Cheers,

Remington

[Moselle]

Remington,

I can't offer much by way of advice, as I'm so new to this site and understanding BPD, but I do know that when my wife feels even remotely like I might abandon her, She brings out the big guns and starts to act out. If I empathize and listen when she's going on, it seems to calm her. I'm on my own journey of should I stay or should I go, but I recognize the emotional agony you're going through. Wishing you all the strength in your time of anguish

[Remington]

I had forgotten to mention, the conversation had ended with her telling me she wants to talk with me about whether or not we are setting a date for our wedding.  She wants to talk today. She wants me to think about acceptable dates.  She wants to talk to me about this -- on the phone.

Where to start with all of this?

She fell apart when I had let her know, gently, that I am very concerned and feel we need couples counseling before setting a firm date.  This was three weeks ago.  She immediately told me, then, that I was triggering her abandonment fears.  I told her I do understand she is having some difficulties with fear and uncertainty. I had shared with her the fact that I also experience some anxiety around this. I also told her that I feel we had a better shot at sorting out our relationship within counseling than without help.

She became very anxious, her voice quivering.  I felt her anguish.  

She quickly went into a downhill spiral for three weeks.

At this time, I feel the best response I can give re: any future together involves talking about the need for professional help and participating in couples counseling.  The other response is to just break it off, at this point.

I am willing to try couples counseling with her.  I am not willing to continue with her otherwise. She can have time to decide  on this.

Yet, the mere fact that I bring up couples counseling sets her off.

I have to bring this up again, if we talk.  I cannot set a date with our relationship this dysfunctional.  Maybe a person with another style would be more helpful to her?  I am open to this. I want her to be happy.  I would still be grieving the loss of the dream/hope of our future together.  Yet, truly think we find out more now, about our real compatibility.

I feel she is somehow expecting I have forgotten or given up my position on couples counseling. I haven't and cannot.

Since she tends to lose it and feels abandoned, I am hesitant to talk with her today. The other part that bothers me is:  Why insist we have such an important conversation on the phone?  We can get together to have this conversation, in a private setting, or in a semi-public setting.  

She may feel she is safer, protected somehow, if we are not physically in the same space when we have this conversation?  (This desire for ongoing separation, even during important conversations, bothers me.  Again, I want a partner fully willing to be present during important conversations.)

I would like another day of peace.  I am not sure I will have this conversation with her today.  Will see how the day goes.

Have a fun day!

Remington

[Remington]

Remington,

I can't offer much by way of advice, as I'm so new to this site and understanding BPD, but I do know that when my wife feels even remotely like I might abandon her, She brings out the big guns and starts to act out. If I empathize and listen when she's going on, it seems to calm her. I'm on my own journey of should I stay or should I go, but I recognize the emotional agony you're going through. Wishing you all the strength in your time of anguish

Thanks, Moselle!

I appreciate your sharing.  None of us knows it all, yet we can help each other by sharing what we do know or have experienced.  Thanks so much.

My fiancé is very sensitive to this. I am baffled by what she interprets as "abandoning" or "rejecting."  It's very hard for me to anticipate just which topics/behaviors she will see in this way.  In some cases, lately, she has been able to tell me she is feeling "abandonment" coming up for her. That, alone, is a big help, to each of us.

I used to have no idea of what was going on. None. 

So her ability to identify these feelings when they come up for her, is helpful.   I am glad she can tell me, at least some of the time. The knowledge has not yet stopped the reactions which follow, yet.  I hope she can interrupt the reactions at some point.

Thanks so much, it's very helpful to me to have you make an effort to share with me.

Cheers,

Remington

[Moselle]

You're absolutely welcome. I'm actually floored by this website. Think how many generations have suffered in silence and loneliness from this illness.

[Want2know]

At this time, I feel the best response I can give re: any future together involves talking about the need for professional help and participating in couples counseling.  The other response is to just break it off, at this point.

I am willing to try couples counseling with her.  I am not willing to continue with her otherwise. She can have time to decide  on this.

You sound very solid in any next steps with her.  That's good, although I know it can be hard to maintain your boundaries with a pwBPD.  There is a workshop on Boundaries that might be good to read through:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Your communication in writing is very calm, caring and honest.  How do you feel when you are talking with her?  Are you able to communicate in the same manner when being confronted with her emotional side? 

Taking a day to think about this and relax is a good idea.  Hope your day is a peaceful one.   

[Remington]

Hi Want2know

You ask some great questions!

I am usually very calm, very patient, very caring and usually very strong with boundaries (with most people, anyway).

I believe these traits are the traits which attracted my fiancé. She had kept saying that nobody else ever cared so much, ever showed her so much patience, ever made her feel so safe and so loved.  (Is this true or a part of the idealization?)

I hear this often from other people, as these are my predominant traits.

I do have the ability to get irritated, to show anger, to raise my voice, although its comparatively rare.

They key question you had asked is whether I am this calm in response to her?  If she has been raging for days, if her behaviors appear insolent and rude, and insulting to people around us, then --  I tend to get fed up.   The raging becomes very stressful.  If she treats my friends or family with contempt during these times, I set very firm boundaries,  right then and there

It interests me that she feels she is free to rage and to insult people when she is triggered.  She is upset if I step up, or step in, and set boundaries on her behavior in front of others.      I consistently tell her I will address the behavior wherever it's happening. If she displays this type of behavior at a family gathering, in front of family members, then this is where I set the boundaries.  She thinks I owe it to her to take  her aside and to talk with her privately.  That approach does not work.  I think its best, if she has involved other people in her rages, to address this right there, in whatever setting she has chosen.

If this causes her to feel shame, then maybe she will eventually agree to participate in the DBT training program she has been refusing to attend or get additional help?

I feel I also owe it to the group -- whether friends or family -- to make a clear statement in front of everyone involved.  This may tap into her sense of shame.  In this case, I am willing to take that chance.  I will not allow her to attack, insult, rage against my friends or family.  Period. She has tried this recently and was so very insulted that I did not defend her behavior in this setting.  It's not helpful to defend her those types of behaviors.  I would have no friends left if I did not speak up.

I am honest. If I have an understanding of my own truth, I will not hide it. I won't be brutally honest and will try to not harm anyone else with my own sense of truth.  I will be open and honest. (There may  be something, some truth I don't yet understand. In that case, I cannot present it yet. However, I will be honest about whatever is in my awareness.)

I am feeling very guilty right now because I did tell her I would talk with her today, when she asked me to do so. I really don't want to talk with her.  I don't want to take a chance on having my peaceful day disturbed. I am tired of dealing with, trying to untangle the distortions.  I will have to be honest if she asks about setting a wedding date.  She loses it when I stick with my stance on this -- couples counseling or break off our engagement.

Want2know, thanks again for the link. I will read it now.  I may have to talk with her today. I will see as time goes on.

Thanks so much,

Remington

[Want2know]

I feel I also owe it to the group -- whether friends or family -- to make a clear statement in front of everyone involved.  This may tap into her sense of shame.  In this case, I am willing to take that chance.  I will not allow her to attack, insult, rage against my friends or family.  Period. She has tried this recently and was so very insulted that I did not defend her behavior in this setting.  It's not helpful to defend her those types of behaviors.  I would have no friends left if I did not speak up.

The situation, as you describe it above, reminded me of a great video that we have regarding validation. 

There is a term that Alan Fruzzetti uses in this video (https://bpdfamily.blogspot.com/2013/06/validation-encouraging-peace-in-BPD.html) 'validating the invalid'. 

For example, sometimes, if we are not emotionally feeling stable ourselves, or just not aware of how we are feeling, we can validate invalid behaviors of our loved ones out of the need for wanting peace or not wanting to further a discussion that seems to be going nowhere.  In your case, if you let that stuff go when she acts that way, it might be considered validating invalid behavior.  Dr. Fruzzetti goes into examples which seem so simple - it's a great video, worth the viewing, when you have some time.

Keep us posted on how your discussion goes. 

[Remington]

Hi Want2know

Great video, thanks.

I need to watch it again in order to comprehend it all.

I will post on update.

I have a feeling we won't be talking today.

I feel she feels my reticence.  Let's face it, if I was thrilled to be setting a wedding date, I would be calling much sooner, with exuberance, right?  The fact that I have not done this earlier today has her now avoiding my attempt to contact her.  Her roommate says she is home, just won't take my call.  She has told me I cannot come by her home to see her. I will honor that request/boundary.

Oh well, I  guess I can do something fun tonight!

(This is hard on me, too.  Honestly. I just try hard to enjoy some of my day/night. I use distractions at times and sit with my feelings at other times.)

Thanks again,

Remington

[Remington]

After my last post, I went to see my brother and his best friend at a local sports bar.

We had fun playing pool and relaxing.

Had a call on my cell from my fiancés roommate.

Said my fiancé had tried to overdose and was on her way to the hospital via ambulance.

I jumped in my truck and went to the hospital.

I could not see her for 2 hours.

She reached for my hand as soon as I stood near the bed. She smiled at me.  She  told the nurse we are getting married this summer.  (we had not decided this together.  This is her story.)

The doctor had told my fiancé there were no beds avail on the psych unit. He had  talked with her therapist and with her pdoc.  They are each seeing her on Monday morning. She signed some kind of a contract with the ER staff, stating she would not commit suicide or harm herself.

They kept her as they gave her an IV and medication.

It is now almost 3 am and she is asleep on my living room sofa.

I still don't know the details. I don't know what she took for an overdose.

She would not let the doctor talk with me.  She signed the contract in front of me. 

I think the iV was simply fluid.  She said they gave her a drug called Seroquel.  The paperwork confirms this drug:  Seroquel. She also has a prescription for Seroquel she needs to fill tomorrow.

I am baffled. I have never seen her do something like this. I still don't know how serious an attempt this was. How much medication was involved in an overdose attempt?  Which medication?  Her roommate told me she thought my fiancé had not taken an overdose, but was saying she had done so.  I was not allowed to talk with the doctor, so I have no idea.  The doctor did say something about a "suicidal gesture."  I am not sure if that is the same as, or different from, a real suicide attempt? 

I don't know what to do. I guess I let her stay here, if she will do so, until she sees her pdoc and her therapist on Monday.

She is sound asleep on my sofa. I am going to try to sleep now, in the recliner near the sofa.I don't dare go to sleep in my bedroom. I think I should stay in the same room with her.

I wish this wasn't so hard on both of us.

I hope all stays calm.

Remington

[Want2know]

Remington, I'm saddened to hear this.  :'(

One thing that is important, at this point, is to listen to her.  This is from our suicide protocol (https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm).  She is seeing her therapist on Monday so until then, one thing you can do is just listen to her.

"Give the person every opportunity to unburden his troubles and ventilate his feelings. You don't need to say much and there are no magic words. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it. Give her relief from being alone with her pain; Patience, sympathy, acceptance. Avoid arguments and advice giving."

How are you feeling now?

My ex had attempted suicide twice in his life before I met him.  Once with an overdose, and the second time with exhaust from a van.  When we were together, he threatened it numerous times.  It scared me.  One time he was holed up in my basement with a gun, and told me to leave and take his son with me (they both lived with me), or else he'd kill his son, too.  I left.  I came back a few hours later so scared about what I'd find.  I brought his friend with me.  At that point, he had calmed down, and was upstairs, but he still had the gun with him and wouldn't give it back.  He actually hid it and wouldn't tell me where.  

You say she has never done this before.  How long have you known her, and does she have any family that has given you any idea of how she's behaved in the past?

We have a workshop regarding suicide which may be helpful: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79032.0

Tell us your thoughts.  I'm sending you a private message with some more information.  

[Moselle]

Remington.

Thoughts and prayers with you mate. You must be deeply pained

Best Regards,

Moselle

[waverider]

Hi Remington, my partner has been on the OD roller coaster for the last 18months or so, including about 30 ambulance trips to ER. Non of them suicidal. The last one on valentines day, and two in the week prior, including 2 episodes of wrist cutting.

With a pwBPD it can become a mindset, a cry for help, with absolutely no consideration of the consequence on others. Now when my partner does this, I turn my phone off and will not pick her up from hospital in the middle of the night (It is always at night). This is not only a dose of tough love to make this an unattractive option for her, but also it allows me to be less affected by it. I know that may sound selfish, but it will reduce the build up of resentment you will start to feel. resentment will escalate the behavior and ultimate make you the cause of it.

Is an OD real, exaggerated or just a fabrication. Hard to tell, the docs don't know. Did the ambos have to revive her or did she just claim it? My partner has often hidden tabs and simply exaggerated them. But the docs just have to treat it as worse case scenario.

Seroquel is an anti psychotic.

This is her drama, you need to stay above it, you cannot stop it, you can only fuel it.

Listen, listen listen is the rule, do not try to solve. You can unwittingly validate it as a reasonable response.

Serious suicide attempts can only be dealt with by those trained to do so. If you have CAT teams were you live it is worth having their number so you can discuss your concerns if necessary.

All the best with this, it is not easy, especially when it becomes the normal

[KateCat]

Remington,

I've been following your thoughtful and compassionate posts yesterday and today. The question that came to my mind while reading them is the one Want2know now poses:

You say she has never done this before.  How long have you known her, and does she have any family that has given you any idea of how she's behaved in the past?

I trust I won't insult your values and judgment by saying I hope the events of the last 24 hours are not making you hear wedding bells.   It's just that this type of dramatic occurrence is recounted so frequently on this forum.

[Remington]

Thank you, each of you, for your notes of info and support.

I can't tell you how much your support means to me right  now.  

Most of my male friends don't want to hear about this. They care, I think they are unsure of how to handle emotional content.  I have many female friends willing to listen and to help. The problem with this is my fiancé has recently been expressing a lot of jealousy toward any friends.

I need support while trying to cope with this. It's already been weeks of an exacerbated type of depression, anxiety and more severe and irrational behaviors from my fiancé.  I was hoping things would calm down.

I was just getting rested a bit when this happened.  This feels a bit surreal to me.  Foggy at times.  I know I am doing okay on "automatic pilot," yet, I feel a bit foggy from the stress.

My fiancé is very subdued physically.  Resting quietly.  Her words get a bit agitated if she talks for a few minutes.  Seems frustrated with trying to express herself right now.

Has she done this before? You are right, probably has.  I have never  been given last names or contact info for her family, nor for her "life long" friends.  I have asked for contact info, over and over again.  She dodges this inquiry.  I have never understood this.

Her current friends are friends are friend she has made here.  They are getting very weary, too. 

I will be re-reading your posts.  I will be taking a look at the links and the PM.  I can only take short breaks right now in order to read here.  She does not want me to leave her sight right now.  Gets very anxious if I leave her sight, even for 3 minutes.

I truly appreciate your support and will write more when I can do so.

I am trying to figure out how to get at least one more person here with us, so we can take a break, can get meals, can get some sleep, etc.  This is very demanding upon just one  person.  The female friend she likes the most will come by with a few groceries. (She will also be prepared to stay for 24 hours, along with us, if that is okay with my fiancé.  She will try to stay to sit with us, quietly, after delivering groceries and we will see if my fiancé will tolerate this friends presence. If so, she will stay to help.  If not, she will go.) It's worth a try.

And, no, not insulted.  Thankful for insights, advice, support, links, etc.

Remington

[waverider]

I am trying to figure out how to get at least one more person here with us, so we can take a break, can get meals, can get some sleep, etc.  This is very demanding upon just one  person.  The female friend she likes the most will come by with a few groceries. (She will also be prepared to stay for 24 hours, along with us, if that is okay with my fiancé.  She will try to stay to sit with us, quietly, after delivering groceries and we will see if my fiancé will tolerate this friends presence. If so, she will stay to help.  If not, she will go.) It's worth a try.



Remington

Many people cannot cope with emotional drama and obvious mental illness. I can't even get my partners family to lift a finger to help out, even though they claim to be a close family. You can end up feeling isolated and abandoned

Be very careful about this completely controlling you, it can set a precedent as a means to get your undivided attention.

Any further self harm behavior and you need to call ambo again, my partner even tried telling me she had OD'd and she wanted me to sit awake next to the bed all night just to keep an eye on her all night. I made her call the ambo if that was the case, but it wasn't, that one was a fake OD.

You will need to be firm about what you will support and what you wont. There is a reason behind all this, just be aware it wont always be what it seems.

There will be a high degree of neediness here. Be careful you don't disable her by enabling it too much

Look after yourself...

[Want2know]

Waverider has given you some good advice.  It is exhausting and emotionally draining to be the only one when she is in the state she's in now.  Many of us have been where you are right now.  It is surreal.

Has she done this before? You are right, probably has.  I have never  been given last names or contact info for her family, nor for her "life long" friends.  I have asked for contact info, over and over again.  She dodges this inquiry.  I have never understood this.

This says a lot.  It would be my guess that she has done this before and is concerned that those life long friends and family might let you onto this - or that she has destroyed any type of relationship that she has had with her family/friends.  

You have said that you both are in your 50's and that she has been officially diagnosed with BPD.  A pwBPD has been this way for most of their life - it usually isn't accurately diagnosable until their late teens.  From the reading you have done, you will see that this behavior does not all of a sudden appear later in life.  There are patterns that keep repeating over and over again that stem from the basis of this disorder.  Thoughts of and/or attempts of suicide, or as Waverider mentions, 'cutting' are very common.  My ex-bf (who I was together with for 4 years) first attempted suicide when he was 16 years old.  The board on our site for parents who have children with BPD also speak of suicide attempts and self-harm.  It's a sad and scary truth.  :'(

I don't want to overwhelm you right now with more questions - you do have a lot to manage today.  Just know that we are here when you have time to get back online, and if you need someone to talk to, we can help you find an appropriate hotline number.  I sent you an initial reference in my PM to you.

Hang in there, Remington.  

[KateCat]

It's so good that you're posting and reading here at this time, Remington.

This isn't the forum for legal discussion, I know, but I can't help but think that none of the family law attorneys with whom I've worked would be comfortable with a client agreeing to contract marriage under the present circumstances. That you don't quite know who she is is particularly disconcerting.

She may not consciously be a spider wrapping a fly in unbreakable bonds, but the effects of suddenly being thrust into a position of keeping another person alive are powerful and sometimes permanent.

Scary stuff!

[Remington]

Thank you Want2know, Moselle, Katecat, Waverider!

I hope I did not miss a name. I am very tired at this point.

We have another couple here with us, helping to distract by keeping conversations and activities going in the household, along with keeping the daily schedule going, with meals, etc.

I know she wants to stay here, wants to live in with me full-time.

I want to tell her she cannot come back her to stay once she has left for her appts tomorrow. I want the therapist and pdoc to know she cannot live in with me.  If they feel she needs to be watched over, they can admit her to a facility or something. I am not trained to deal with this. I need to keep my focus on my job, etc. I cannot be taking days off right now in order to attend to her needs. I don't mean to sound insolent or anything. I was trying to avoid our living together until after couples counseling, if then. This situation has us in the same house and it could be difficult to get her to leave now.

I am trying to let things be calm and not start any new discussions, etc. I don't know what would happen right now if she were to feel abandoned  or rejected.  I don't want to know.  Yet, I need to let her know, at some point, that she is not welcome to keep living here like this.  Sound cruel?  I look back over the past few days and see the behaviors and how I have tried to reach out, while holding some boundaries with her. I don't want to start living together just because of the circumstances of her suicidal gesturing last night.

I am so tired right now and have so many different feelings, I should sign off. I need some decent sleep.  It's been 3 very difficult weeks.

I have lost a lot of sleep.

Thank you, each one of you, for your input. I have not had time to respond individually. I am very appreciative of your support.

Remington

[Remington]

It's been a very long 3 weeks, with my fiancé experiencing an exacerbation in her BPD symptoms since I had let her know I was hesitant to set a wedding date until we did more to try to understand  and to assist her with her BPD,  even couples counseling which would only help our relationship.  She has refused and continues to refuse additional help.  She will not attend a groups skill program (DBT) suggested by her therapist and pdoc. Yet, she clearly needs more help.

It has been busy here today because of her suicidal gesture last night.  It seems someone wBPD can get into psychosis when under severe stress?  Has anyone see this?  Often?

She definitely seems different. It could be the extra medication. It could be the illness. I just don't know.

I am glad she is taking her meds as prescribed.  I was concerned she might not take the Seroquel. Her own pdoc knows her and will make medication decisions.

It must be the stress which may cause a pwBPD to go into psychosis and/or paranoia?

Thanks,

Remington

P.S. KateCat, I understood your suggestion from a legal standpoint. Great insight. Thanks!

[Want2know]

I know she wants to stay here, wants to live in with me full-time.

I want to tell her she cannot come back her to stay once she has left for her appts tomorrow. I want the therapist and pdoc to know she cannot live in with me.  If they feel she needs to be watched over, they can admit her to a facility or something. I am not trained to deal with this. I need to keep my focus on my job, etc. I cannot be taking days off right now in order to attend to her needs. I don't mean to sound insolent or anything. I was trying to avoid our living together until after couples counseling, if then. This situation has us in the same house and it could be difficult to get her to leave now.

This sounds very wise to me.  You cannot take responsibility for her.  She has to want to do it, and step up to pursue professional help.  It doesn't mean you can't be compassionate, but as you said and what Waverider was relaying, living together because of her recent episode could send the wrong message.

I hope you can get some sleep.  Please make sure you take care of yourself right now.

[waverider]

You are right to treat this behavior as  , otherwise you easily find yourself in living in Fear, Obligation & Guilt (FOG). That is easier to avoid than to remove yourself from

[Remington]

Hello and thanks!

I want to express my gratitude to each of you. You have been very helpful, very supportive in many ways.

I am reading here when I can do so.  I do read your messages. I am also reading articles, etc.

I am working daily and also trying to attend to this "crisis" situation.

It's all very demanding and emotionally draining.

There seems to be a lot of red tape in getting my fiancé the type of residential help she seems to need. She may have only the option of an intensive outpatient day program.  If so, still need to sort out where she will be living. 

She was here again last night.  However, so far, I have made sure others are in the house.  This is not the situation she had wanted, with just the two of us here.  There are 2-4 other adults here at any given time.  She has one of the  guest bedrooms, so she can have solitude when she desires quiet and privacy.  Yet, tends to stay up in the living areas all night. Friends stay up with her, taking turns just being present with her. Friends take shifts of spending time with her, staying day and night right now.  (This cannot be misconstrued as a honeymoon period right now. It's clear, by the presence of others, and the goals set for her each day, that this is a concerted effort to get her into a place of more independence and into a more therapeutic environment.)  I am so very grateful friends are pitching in like this to help.  They also make sure she gets to her appointments, etc, while I am at work.

I hope to comment more soon. I am trying to keep my balance, which is a huge challenge right now. I find I am easily drained of energy.  Its all quite a challenge.

Thanks so much for your support.

Remington

[waverider]

You are doing well and you are lucky you have people to help out.

Residential care is always in short supply

[KateCat]

This cannot be misconstrued as a honeymoon period right now.