Is 'no more cold sex' a boundary?

[vortex of confusion]

It would be fair. In fact far less than that would be fair.

When it comes to refusing sex, to your husband (or anybody else for that matter!), I am very hardcore about consent and respecting boundaries.

It starts here:

Your body is your own.

Nobody has a right to "use" your body in ANY way that you are not willing to offer and give freely.

So if you do not feel like having sex with anybody (whether they are your husband or not!), that is the end of it. And the only right thing for them to do is to not have sex with you.

In other words, it happens only with your consent.

If you have to 'justify' withholding consent, then it isn't consent anymore. You don't need a reason to withhold consent. You don't need a good reason. You don't need a bad reason. You don't need to share your reason.


... .so... .if you feel like sex would hurt you (emotionally, physically, or in any other way), and do not want it, that trumps any need that anybody else on the planet has.

End of statement.

I would like to give you a standing ovation for this GK!

I really, really needed to hear this and be reminded of it. I found myself in a moment not too long ago where I could freely give myself to my husband. He took it as me being magically okay with everything and started getting a little too close in other areas and hinting about some things that I wasn't yet comfortable with yet. I had to ask him to back off and take things a little more slowly. I am not ready to jump back on the saddle on a regular basis. I still have a lot of thinking and figuring stuff out to do.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

  Our very first Valentine's Day together he bought me a wood sander, for his wood shop.  And our first Christmas, he brought back the band saw I gave him and got a scroll saw he never uses.  He knows he has an issue with giving freely, it really feels like he can't. 

Wow... .what did you say to him when he gave it?  I've heard of things like this second and third hand... .but never actually talked to someone directly.

Wow...

So... .how many times has he given you gifts... that really were for him... .and how many times has he given you gifts that are really for you. (stuff you like and appreciate)

Is gift giving a big deal for you?  In my "love languages"... .it is last place.  Same for my wife.  We do get gifts... .but it is not a big deal... .for either of us.

  He pushed me to continue to do physical work while I had a medical issue that caused tissue damage throughout my body because I did that physical work.  This issue alone is very hard for me to get past.  I can't believe people that cold exist in the world.

How many times has something like this happened in your r/s?  If it ever comes up again... what is your plan?  What "lesson" or "tool" would you use?

The last year was an improvement... .but is it enough? 

No... .it's not "enough"... .IT is a process.  A r/s is a dynamic thing... .BPD traits don't change that.  R/s are rarely static... .what I hope you can focus on is that there has been improvement... .and you have become stronger... .and more educated about the disorder... .and that a year from now... .most likely... there will be even more improvement.

The moment you say... ."it's enough"... .the dynamic and momentum will start shifting... .  Please keep pushing in the right direction... .

I'm going to keep allowing myself to mourn and try to sort through the emotional loss. 

Embrace the emotions and feelings... .let them motivate you to go to a better place!

I don't get angry at him about it anymore.

Should you still get angry about it?  Is anger a bad thing?  My take is it depends on what you do with the anger... .

From what I have read... .if it was me... .I would be angry... .

[vortex of confusion]

You're right, it's a zoning out that happens.  But that's really a different topic than what I intended, really.  I guess the only reason it wasn't my topic was because I didn't realize other men did this until this conversation took place.     I did initially ask about his cold approach to initiating sex, which I guess, is similar to having cold sex.

Hmmm, there might be a slight difference. If he initiates in a cold way and I am feeling it, I am going to take the ball and run with it. If he initiates in a cold way and I am not feeling it, then it is cold sex. At least that is the way it was in my house. His idea of initiating was shutting and locking the bedroom door. That was my cue.

We can actually have great super great sex, as long as the focus is on him. Takes two to tango... and we only have cold sex when I turn off the heat, because he cant seem to make heat happen.   He makes very little or no effort to turn up my heat.

I could have written that! It gets very, very tiring to be the one that does all of the work. The joke about a partner just laying there isn't a joke in my house. I literally do all of the work from beginning to end. And when it is over, he is in a rush to get his towel from under the bed so he can clean up. I don't think I have ever shared that little detail with anyone.

I really wondered if I could put up that boundary, what it would look like and stuff.  I know it isn't fair to hold sex from your husband, but if you know your mental state is too weak to keep you out of nasty thoughts, what do you do?  Whose need comes first?

Yes, I think that is a perfectly reasonable boundary to have. I have pretty much stopped having sex with my husband. He got to where he wouldn't initiate but would complain about not having sex. I think he took me not initiating as rejection. I was a friggin' mess. I would initiate, do all of the work, and then have to get up and go take care of the kids afterwards. It was too much for me to deal with. If he is lucky, he might get it once a month. And then, it has to be mutual and I have to feel up to it. He can hint about it or say or do whatever he wants but I am not going to go down that road where he goes back to expecting me to do it all.

[Cat Familiar]

Crumbling, I had to laugh about the wood sander. Sorry 

My ex-husband bought me gifts that he wanted and when we divorced all those presents left with him. Often he wouldn't think to get me anything at all.

And pushing you to do physical work when you had a medical condition and shouldn't--that sounds like my ex too. He would push me so hard when we hiked that I remember throwing up afterwards. 

[Skip]

So my original title, is 'no cold sex' a boundary sort of got lost somewhere.  I really wondered if I could put up that boundary, what it would look like and stuff.  I know it isn't fair to hold sex from your husband, but if you know your mental state is too weak to keep you out of nasty thoughts, what do you do?  Whose need comes first?

So if you do not feel like having sex with anybody (whether they are your husband or not!), that is the end of it. And the only right thing for them to do is to not have sex with you.

This is a very significant juncture in a typical monogamous relationship journey. When you close the door on intimacy in a relationship you are beginning to dismantle the relationship and that is generally a process that can get out of control in ways you might not expect.

At this fork in the road the choice is to rebuild or tear down.

Backtracking a bit... .what is the value behind this boundary and how have you be living up to it?

[MissyM]

I really wondered if I could put up that boundary, what it would look like and stuff.  I know it isn't fair to hold sex from your husband, but if you know your mental state is too weak to keep you out of nasty thoughts, what do you do?  Whose need comes first?

Would it be fair to say "If I know I won't stay grounded, I'm not going to agree to sex in that moment."?

I think everyone has to work that boundary out for themselves.  My boundary is no sex without intimacy.  We had to stop sex a couple of times when my dBPDh "went away" in the middle of sex, so I stopped and said that I noticed he went away and asked if it was ok to cuddle instead.  It no longer happens, he just no longer disappears inside of himself when we are having sex.  He has done a ton of work on himself, think a lot of his issue was disappearing because of shame, and now he is very happy to have an intimate sex life.  Think the issue can be different for everyone.  Many SAs disappear into their head because they are having fantasies about porn or other women, with my dBPDh he was disappearing into his head and criticizing his performance and inability (Yikes!).  No wonder he is happier doing it the way we do now.  And let's be clear, I am not encouraging anyone to set an angry boundary to cut their husband off from sex.  However, continuing to have cold and non intimate sex isn't going to change anything.  I know my dBPDh and I have had to dismantle our old marriage and build a new one.

I was on the site someone suggested about Intimacy Anorexia.  I hadn't quite finished when I got pulled away from the computer.  The next thing I know he's reading it.  I just said, I haven't really even looked at that site yet.  Fingers crossed, I just kept making supper as he read.  When he was done, he mumbled something about the place to put your email which I didn't get, then I heard the words you'll figure it out... .shocked huh rolleyes... .I asked him what he meant and he said nothing dear.

Yes, I put that on the other thread.  :)oug Weiss has good info on Intimacy Anorexia, which can exist without SA.  He has several books and DVDs.  My dBPDh mainly suffered with this and I wish that I had known what that was before he start adding on all of the other crap, I can have much more compassion for this issue than others.  And to be clear, I have my own intimacy issues or I wouldn't be with my husband (they are different but fit together).

www.posarc.com/partners/sexual-anorexia

I am willing to discuss getting someone specialized in intimacy issues, that's a great idea.

It has been life changing for us, added in attachment therapy for couples and things are GOOD!

[Grey Kitty]

So if you do not feel like having sex with anybody (whether they are your husband or not!), that is the end of it. And the only right thing for them to do is to not have sex with you.

This is a very significant juncture in a monogamous relationship journey. When you close the door on intimacy you are beginning to dismantle the relationship and that is generally a process that can get out of control in ways you might not expect.

At this fork in the road the choice is to rebuild or tear down.

Backtracking a bit... .what is the value behind this boundary and how have you be living up to it?

The original circumstances where I got up on my soapbox about consent was where crumbling felt that the intimacy was already long gone... .and the physical sex without intimacy made left her feeling horrible and used, and she was questioning whether she had a right to set this boundary.

In this circumstance, I'd say that what she is doing is acknowledging and bringing into the open the damage that withholding intimacy has already done to the relationship.

She absolutely does have that right.

Skip, I agree with you that there are consequences that come with using that right and enforcing that boundary. Using that 'right' for capricious or manipulative ends is horrible and toxic. Using it for any reason other than to protect yourself from real (likely emotional) harm is not something I'd ever recommend.

Acknowledging that the right exists is a critical first step for creating safety in any r/s... .I think that feeling safe in this way allows a partner to start working on next steps to improve the r/s and recover.

[MissyM]

I

n this circumstance, I'd say that what she is doing is acknowledging and bringing into the open the damage that withholding intimacy has already done to the relationship.

She absolutely does have that right.

Skip, I agree with you that there are consequences that come with using that right and enforcing that boundary. Using that 'right' for capricious or manipulative ends is horrible and toxic. Using it for any reason other than to protect yourself from real (likely emotional) harm is not something I'd ever recommend.

Acknowledging that the right exists is a critical first step for creating safety in any r/s... .I think that feeling safe in this way allows a partner to start working on next steps to improve the r/s and recover.

Why do we not have a clapping hands emoji!   Perfectly well stated.

[Skip]

She absolutely does have that right.

We have the right to have affairs. We have the right to draw down the bank accounts.  We have the right to file restraining orders. We have the right to become an alcoholic.  We have the right to crash the car.  We have the right to be selfish.

We have lots of rights.  I'm not sggesting that we give up any rights.  My question is, is this matter about rights?

Or is this about making a decision to try and save the relationship or break it down.

Ask any counselor.  Selfishness is the bane of a relationship.

Rather than exercise rights, it may make more sense to exercise heart.  To ask for compassion and to offer it.  To seek a solution together - and these come in many ways - together.

On a side note... .we have to be very careful here not to triangulate (and I'm not point this at anyone in particular - its very general statement) anyones relationship and encourage further polarization in that family.  It's easy to slip down this slope   .  We really want to be mindful to be a centering force in each others relationships on the Staying board.

[MissyM]

Ask any counselor.  Selfishness is the bane of a relationship.

Huh? Confusing self care and selfishness is a core issue with caretakers/codependents.  Not having sex that is emotionally violating would fall under self care.  I am kind of shocked that anyone would call that selfishness.  And I am quite honestly offended by that statement.  I am all for relationships and rebuilding, that is what my dBPDh and I have been able to do.  Part of that was owning my needs and speaking up.

[Rapt Reader]

Ask any counselor.  Selfishness is the bane of a relationship.

Huh? Confusing self care and selfishness is a core issue with caretakers/codependents.  Not having sex that is emotionally violating would fall under self care.

I'm not sure there is a conflict between

   "Selfishness" being "the bane of a relationship", and

   "self-care" being very important;

Is there a reason we can't achieve both?

I am kind of shocked that anyone would call that selfishness.  And I am quite honestly offended by that statement.

I don't see that, myself, in Skip's post, MissyM.

[vortex of confusion]

Skip, I agree with you that there are consequences that come with using that right and enforcing that boundary. Using that 'right' for capricious or manipulative ends is horrible and toxic. Using it for any reason other than to protect yourself from real (likely emotional) harm is not something I'd ever recommend.

I can't speak to Cat's situation but I can speak to my own. Yes, I have withheld but the intent was NOT to further break down the relationship. It took me a long time to get to a point where I was willing to do that. I was really afraid to stop having sex with my husband because I felt that it was my duty as his wife. I stopped so that I could try to change the dynamic. It was for ME to take ownership of my own body. Some things happened between my husband and I that bordered on sexual abuse. I need time to process some of that. If a partner pressures a spouse for sex (or anything related to sex) without regard for emotional well being, it does a lot of damage to the relationship. It required me taking a step back, figuring out what was going on, trying to heal, and then trying to figure out how I could reintroduce certain things into the relationship in a way that honors ME and my wounds.

The byproduct has been that the dynamic between my husband and I has slowly been changing. None of that would have happened if I hadn't gotten to a place where I was more comfortable with myself. Yes, it may have been considered selfish by some but that is what I needed to do in order to move forward and figure out how the heck to STOP the pattern of having sex with my husband because I was in a FOG. Having sex with your spouse due to fear, obligation, and guilt is not healthy and it doesn't feel good at all.

  I am kind of shocked that anyone would call that selfishness.  

Instead of "call it" selfish... .think about how it could be perceived.  Especially by the person being "cut off"... .

Note... .even if they "deserve it"... .they may still perceive it as a selfish act.

Sure, the person that is cut off is going to perceive it as selfish. They may perceive it as punishment or rejection or who knows what else. How many times have people on this site encouraged people to set boundaries even if they are perceived as selfish? When encouraging other to set boundaries in other areas of life, what advice is given when it comes to being worried about how actions will be perceived? Why is it different when talking about sex?

[MissyM]

Instead of "call it" selfish... .think about how it could be perceived.  Especially by the person being "cut off"... .

Note... .even if they "deserve it"... .they may still perceive it as a selfish act.

It is very damaging to the person that has been violated over and over to be told to allow the violation or they are being "selfish". I am greatly offended by this. Of course someone that is extremely entitled is going to feel that their partner is selfish if they do any self care, that is not the standard of self care.  Are we supposed to allow our spouses to emotionally or physically abuse us because if we don't they will feel we are "selfish" or do we encourage members to have boundaries around this?  This issue is no different.  Sadly, most people are greatly uneducated on this issue.  It took my dBPDh and I sixteen years of marriage and therapy to get the right kind of help.  *sigh*  It makes me so sad when I see misinformation being reinforced when I have experienced the amazing changes that intimacy and attachment therapy make about this issue. 

[Skip]

Why is it different when talking about sex?

It's not really any different.   

If we make this topic about relocation or whether to buy a new car, the point is the same.

[vortex of confusion]

It is very damaging to the person that has been violated over and over to be told to allow the violation or they are being "selfish". I am greatly offended by this. Of course someone that is extremely entitled is going to feel that their partner is selfish if they do any self care, that is not the standard of self care.  Are we supposed to allow our spouses to emotionally or physically abuse us because if we don't they will feel we are "selfish" or do we encourage members to have boundaries around this?  This issue is no different.  Sadly, most people are greatly uneducated on this issue.  It took my dBPDh and I sixteen years of marriage and therapy to get the right kind of help.  *sigh*  It makes me so sad when I see misinformation being reinforced when I have experienced the amazing changes that intimacy and attachment therapy make about this issue. 

Thank you MissyM!

I am really boiling at the idea that me withholding sex from my husband in order to heal myself is selfish. It took me a long time to get over the FOG long enough for me to stop having sex with him out of habit and then feeling bad about it. It took a long time for me to get past him doing the "Poor me, I am never going to have sex again. I might as well be celibate" guilt trips. And then, the fear that if I didn't have sex with him he would act out through porn or other women.

[Grey Kitty]

We have lots of rights.  I'm not sggesting that we give up any rights.  My question is, is this matter about rights?

If somebody questions whether they even have this right... .yes, that is a matter about rights.

I'm the kind of guy who will stand somebody up and tell them "Yes, you do have that right."

Or is this about making a decision to try and save the relationship or break it down.

Ask any counselor.  Selfishness is the bane of a relationship.

Selfishness can kill a relationship. Losing your self in your partner is toxic too.

Rather than exercise rights, it may make more sense to exercise heart.  To ask for compassion and to offer it.  To seek a solution together - and these come in many ways - together.

I agree completely, and do all I can to live that way. I know that when my sense who I was got eroded and weak, my capacity to exercise heart was minimal at best. For me, knowing that I had rights like that was a critical step before I could do much of that.

[MissyM]

I am really boiling at the idea that me withholding sex from my husband in order to heal myself is selfish. It took me a long time to get over the FOG long enough for me to stop having sex with him out of habit and then feeling bad about it. It took a long time for me to get past him doing the "Poor me, I am never going to have sex again. I might as well be celibate" guilt trips. And then, the fear that if I didn't have sex with him he would act out through porn or other women.

Me too!  I find ignorance of this issue to be frustrating.  Thankfully, I am surrounded by males and females in recovery IRL, these kind of statements about selfishness do NOT fly.  Actually, even my father gets this issue and he is not in recovery but just a very enlightened male.

[Skip]

Rather than exercise rights, it may make more sense to exercise heart.  To ask for compassion and to offer it.  To seek a solution together - and these come in many ways - together.

I agree completely, and do all I can to live that way. I know that when my sense who I was got eroded and weak, my capacity to exercise heart was minimal at best. For me, knowing that I had rights like that was a critical step before I could do much of that.

No doubt it is hard... .but when we let go of heart, where are we?

Let's look at this using money rather than sex. Let's say one partner is not comfortable with the way the other is spending money so they withdraw all the money from the accounts and give the other no access.

Good idea?

They may feel weak. They have this right.

[Grey Kitty]

No doubt it is hard... .but when we let go of heart, where are we?

Let's look at this using money rather than sex. Let's say one partner is not comfortable with the way the other is spending money so they withdraw all the money from the accounts and give the other no access.

Good idea?

They may feel weak. They have this right.

Rights apply. The comparison doesn't.

Ownership of money in a joint account is shared, and somewhat debatable. Either party has a LEGAL right to do this.

Moral/ethical right to do this? Pretty dubious.

Good idea? Not under most circumstances.

Ownership of a person's body is NEVER shared, and NEVER debatable... .at least under my moral/ethical code, which does not include slavery!

So withholding sex (which involves YOUR OWN BODY) is in a completely different moral/ethical ground.

Completely within your legal rights to do this for any reason.

Completely within your moral/ethical rights to do this for any reason.

Good idea to do this? Well that depends on what reason you picked to do it.

[Mutt]

Just a reminder about the format and guidelines for discussion, including welcoming diversity and not debating others' points of view (forum)

3.0 DISCUSSION FORMAT: bpdfamily/bpdfamily.com is set up as a collegium. We follow a Collegial Discussion format which is characterized as having "authority" vested equally among colleagues/peers. As such, members present their ideas in "collegial harmony" and the credibility of their positions are based solely on the quality of the points they advance in writing. Diversity is to be embraced - there is often much to be learned from others views and perspectives.

Please note that collegial discussion is different than debate. Debate is an argument or a discussion generally ending with a vote or agreement on the best decision. In debate, unity is the objective. Members are discouraged from debating and arguing against others' positions, questioning the wisdom of others, or restating of their position repeatedly.

1.5 Potentially Contentious Content: Discussions on contentious political, religious, moral issues (e.g., euthanasia, abortion), or social advocacy topics (feminism, anti-government, male dominance) are discouraged. There are other places to debate politics, religion, etc. and these debates are better suited for a venue where community camaraderie, trust and credibility are not highly held values. The nature of the discussions at bpdfamily/bpdfamily.com are best held without the undertone of political or religious alignments.

[Skip]

Good idea? Not under most circumstances.

Right.

And why?

Because it is exercising unilateral power over the other person.  

If one partner took all the money and gave it to a trustee or mediator who is to work with the couple to solve the money problems... .

... .better.  Right?

We have to be very careful how we solve problems involving money, sex, and children in a relationship.  These are highly charged areas that can send the relationship into a free fall.

Unilateral actions, and power need to be last resorts and they will likely have repercussions - often a counter unilateral actions or power.

This doesn't suggest for a minute that anyone needs to be violated in any of these areas.

[MissyM]

Here is an example using money to illustrate what it is like living with someone that has intimacy anorexia (sometimes they also use money for control so perfect example).

One partner is taking all of the money and spending it secretly on other things, then hiding the information and keeping total control of the money.  The 2nd partner is only being given a pittance from the 1st partner and only if the 1st partner feels like it and the 2nd partner is told over and over to not do or say anything, that to do so would be selfish.  The 2nd partner should just take the meager pittance their partner offers them and say nothing.

[Grey Kitty]

Because it is exercising unilateral power over the other person. 

If one partner took all the money and gave it to a trustee or mediator who is to work with the couple to solve the money problems... .

... .better.  Right?

Indeed, much better. And applicable with money. But the comparison breaks down for me.

Do you see refusing to have sex with somebody as exercising unilateral power over them?

[vortex of confusion]

Because it is exercising unilateral power over the other person. 

If one partner took all the money and gave it to a trustee or mediator who is to work with the couple to solve the money problems... .

... .better.  Right?

Indeed, much better. And applicable with money. But the comparison breaks down for me.

Do you see refusing to have sex with somebody as exercising unilateral power over them?

Having a mediator is probably the best option. How would one protect the assets until they could get to a mediator to help them better handle the money?

Also, I am struggling with having my body being compared to money. I am trying to understand how my body can be compared to money. I am not trying to argue. I want to understand how a person's body can be compared to money without further objectifying the partner that is already struggling with feeling used.

[MissyM]

And I guess my view is informed by the approach to SA recovery.  Sex is taken off the table anywhere from 90 days to a year, so that things can be reset and a new relationship can be made.  This is not punitive but 1st to help the SA get sober (the 90 days) and to help the couple rebuild a healthy emotional intimacy before they introduce sex.  It seems so basic but healthy emotional intimacy is missing in most relationships with sexual issues.  It is not about punishing or cutting off anyone but in lovingly rebuilding the foundation of the relationship where both partners can own their sexual and intimacy needs.  Nothing ugly or divisive about it.  I definitely recommend a "mediator" or therapist and lots of reading.  I am very grateful to have gotten some very skilled therapists to help us build the emotional intimacy, amazingly the sexual intimacy very easily followed (my dBPDh was shocked by this, happily so but he had no idea that emotional intimacy could bring really great sex).

[Skip]

-- crossed ---

I don't want to make this overly simplistic, but in the case of the money you withdraw it, walk it to the mediator, and hand each party $7,000 to cover until you work out how to approach it together.

Lead with heart.  Not power.

Sex cannot be divided into 100 parts per dollar so its a little more complex and I don't want to draw pictures, but just asking for a break before the first counseling session and making a steak dinner might do it. There is more than one way to work this out together.

Lead with heart.  Not power.

[Hmcbart]

I'm new to all of this and probably late to the party on this discussion but I tend to lean from the perspective of being the husband. My SO not diagnosed, is very controlled when it comes to anything sexual. I'm pretty smart guy but just never caught on to how much control.

Even after MC suggested we try scheduled sex every other week, she actually agreed in the office. She couldn't give up that control. I told her that I didn't feel it was fair for her to be in complete control of our sex life and get to make all the decisions about when it may happen (fyi, once a year is her thought).

In typical controlling black & white fashion I turned out to be the bad guy. I demanded the twice a month thing and she only agreed (in 2 MC sessions) because she felt pressured by me and the MC. Then I was told that I do have a choice. I can accept that it will happen when and if she wants it to happen or I can leave.

We've been married 17 yrs together 19 and have 2 kids. If I leave she moves back to Texas. I can't see my kids if I don't move with them and I can't support them if I move with no job. So the part about with holding sex is unequivocally all about control in some situations... .

I could just be bitter about it as well.

[MissyM]

So the part about with holding sex is unequivocally all about control in some situations... .

With BPD, my understanding is that it is usually about fear.  At last for my dBPDh it was, intimacy anorexia was about withholding because he was afraid of intimacy.  Really tough to deal with.  When we did have sex it was very disconnected and forced, until he got into recovery and got help.  This thread was about the disconnected part of sex and how to deal with it.  Not sure how it got turned into a discussion about withholding, as that wasn't the original topic or intent when dealing with disconnected sex.  Hope you and your wife can get some help on this issue, it is soul crushing to have a spouse that doesn't want to be intimate with you (and I am not talking about perfunctory disconnected sex).  I found an approach that dealt with the intimacy issue and took the focus off of actual sex to solve this problem in my marriage.

[Hmcbart]

I found an approach that dealt with the intimacy issue and took the focus off of actual sex to solve this problem in my marriage.

Please tell me what that approach was.

I know it's probably for a different thread but I've been painted as a sex addict now because of all of this. Not to mention the effect always playing Charlie Brown to her Lucy has on your self esteem. I'm sure it's not just a male thing, being made to feel wrong or broken because of a normal need for intimacy (not just sex) can do major damag mentally, I'm living proof.

[vortex of confusion]

Please tell me what that approach was. I know it's probably for a different thread but I've been painted as a sex addict now because of all of this. Not to mention the effect always playing Charlie Brown to her Lucy has on your self esteem. I'm sure it's not just a male thing, being made to feel wrong or broken because of a normal need for intimacy (not just sex) can do major damag mentally, I'm living proof.

At one point, I was accused of having too high of a libido. I have been told that I am probably a sex addict too. I have taken all sorts of online tests to make sure that I am not an addict. Sure, I have a high libido. I will admit to that but how does it make sense that a sex addict is complaining because his wife wants it too much? Everything surrounding sex in my relationship has one big ball of confusion and none of it has made any sense at all. I have felt very, very broken because of my need to feel connected to my spouse.