How did they do it?

[bAlex]

I've been wondering about something; my ex used to talk about her ex's a lot.

She mentioned that she dated one guy for 10 years. It was the guy prior to her ex when she met me. Only reason they broke up was because she found out he had been cheating for years and then her heart closed up towards him.

I don't encourage cheating, but I suspect that the only reason he did cheat was to try and find a way out. To try and fall in love with someone else instead of leaving her and going through the pain of seeing her move on first. If that makes sense.

She also mentioned that during those 10 years he only took her out about 12 times. I'm not talking about vacations or going away for weekends etc. I mean clubs, bars and restaurants. I suspect he knew it would be bad for the relationship, seeing that she overly enjoys the attention she gets from strangers, and acts in ways that would suggest that she's single. ALL her boyfriends get jealous because of this.

Question is, how the hell did this guy manage to last 10 years with her?

Her longest relationship since was 1.5 years (was recycled about 5 times) and on average they last about 6 months, recycles included. So wat made that different? She didn't get bored sitting at home like she does now. She didn't break up and recycle that relationship once that I know of. She respected him in her own way throughout, and was careful about not to upset him etc. And according to her the guy was extremely shy and introverted, she's the opposite.

I don't get it, it's like a lot of her self destructive patterns were dormant during that time.

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

[hurting300]

I've been wondering about something; my ex used to talk about her ex's a lot.

She mentioned that she dated one guy for 10 years. It was the guy prior to her ex when she met me. Only reason they broke up was because she found out he had been cheating for years and then her heart closed up towards him.

I don't encourage cheating, but I suspect that the only reason he did cheat was to try and find a way out. To try and fall in love with someone else instead of leaving her and going through the pain of seeing her move on first. If that makes sense.

She also mentioned that during those 10 years he only took her out about 12 times. I'm not talking about vacations or going away for weekends etc. I mean clubs, bars and restaurants. I suspect he knew it would be bad for the relationship, seeing that she overly enjoys the attention she gets from strangers, and acts in ways that would suggest that she's single. ALL her boyfriends get jealous because of this.

Question is, how the hell did this guy manage to last 10 years with her?

Her longest relationship since was 1.5 years (was recycled about 5 times) and on average they last about 6 months, recycles included. So wat made that different? She didn't get bored sitting at home like she does now. She didn't break up and recycle that relationship once that I know of. She respected him in her own way throughout, and was careful about not to upset him etc. And according to her the guy was extremely shy and introverted, she's the opposite.

I don't get it, it's like a lot of her self destructive patterns were dormant during that time.

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

Do you know for a FACT it was 10 years? My ex bragged on her ex boyfriend too. He was an angel I could tell him anything! Blah blah it's all I heard. But guess what? She walked away from this "perfect guy" like he was nothing. My point is she probably wasn't being honest with you. It's all mind games with them in my opinion

[fromheeltoheal]

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

We're entirely guessing, of course, but all the behaviors of a borderline are a response to fear of abandonment and/or fear of engulfment, centered on an attachment, so if that attachment was relatively stable, the behaviors could be relatively minimized.  It's impossible to see inside that relationship, but he could have had a personality disorder of his own, or been highly codependent, or there really wasn't a relationship there, it was a facade, with both of them getting their needs met elsewhere.  And the main point of course is what does that mean to you and your detachment Alex?

[sweet tooth]

BPDs lie. I would take anything she said with a grain of salt. It could have been 100% BS.

[hurting300]

BPDs lie. I would take anything she said with a grain of salt. It could have been 100% BS.

Haha yes they do. Was anything real?

[Leonis]

Or be like my ex. The guy that left her was some upstanding citizen while the other 3 she left (including me) apparently all had some serious issues.

She doesn't think it's her when she is the common denominator with 4 very different men.

[Invictus01]

I would agree with the lie theory. And it's not because I am bitter or whatnot. I just seriously have no idea what was the truth and what wasn't. I remember right after the spectacular discard, I was like "Eh, what the blippity blip blop just happened to me? I feel like my last 6 months of my life were some sort of a creepy theatrical performance I was a part of and didn't know about. Was any of that real? And what wasn't? Was it even her parents she introduced me to or just some couple she knows?" I was soo confused.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, we've all got experience with a borderline's lies, and have we considered why a borderline lies?  BPD is a shame-based disorder, and borderlines typically have such a low opinion of themselves that if they were to be completely open and honest, you would agree with their opinion of themselves, and you would leave, abandonment, the worst thing that can happen to a borderline.  And in practice, after a lifetime of practice, lying is just the norm, it's so well integrated into how a borderline makes it through the day that it happens in a heartbeat without remorse, because any remorse is put where the rest of the remorse goes, somewhere where it can't be felt.  And of course anything you practice for a lifetime you're going to get really good at.  One way to send a borderline spinning is to say "I'm not sure I agree with that", just that simple statement, which introduces unacceptable doubt and will be met with one of the 'tools' used to not feel that, which we're all too familiar with.  Of course I didn't know any of that then, but it would have been fun to try from a detached place... .

Sad too though; can you imagine feeling so terrible about yourself that continuous lying seems like the best option available?  No thanks.

[Invictus01]

Yes, we've all got experience with a borderline's lies, and have we considered why a borderline lies?  BPD is a shame-based disorder, and borderlines typically have such a low opinion of themselves that if they were to be completely open and honest, you would agree with their opinion of themselves, and you would leave, abandonment, the worst thing that can happen to a borderline.  And in practice, after a lifetime of practice, lying is just the norm, it's so well integrated into how a borderline makes it through the day that it happens in a heartbeat without remorse, because any remorse is put where the rest of the remorse goes, somewhere where it can't be felt.  And of course anything you practice for a lifetime you're going to get really good at.  One way to send a borderline spinning is to say "I'm not sure I agree with that", just that simple statement, which introduces unacceptable doubt and will be met with one of the 'tools' used to not feel that, which we're all too familiar with.  Of course I didn't know any of that then, but it would have been fun to try from a detached place... .

Sad too though; can you imagine feeling so terrible about yourself that continuous lying seems like the best option available?  No thanks.

Actually, I distinctly remember telling my best friend after a couple of months into it - "Her mom did a number on her self-esteem" I just could sense that a whole lot of what she was saying was to cover it up. A red flag? Sure. A red flag if you don't know what a red flag looks like? Nope.

[bAlex]

I've been wondering about something; my ex used to talk about her ex's a lot.

She mentioned that she dated one guy for 10 years. It was the guy prior to her ex when she met me. Only reason they broke up was because she found out he had been cheating for years and then her heart closed up towards him.

I don't encourage cheating, but I suspect that the only reason he did cheat was to try and find a way out. To try and fall in love with someone else instead of leaving her and going through the pain of seeing her move on first. If that makes sense.

She also mentioned that during those 10 years he only took her out about 12 times. I'm not talking about vacations or going away for weekends etc. I mean clubs, bars and restaurants. I suspect he knew it would be bad for the relationship, seeing that she overly enjoys the attention she gets from strangers, and acts in ways that would suggest that she's single. ALL her boyfriends get jealous because of this.

Question is, how the hell did this guy manage to last 10 years with her?

Her longest relationship since was 1.5 years (was recycled about 5 times) and on average they last about 6 months, recycles included. So wat made that different? She didn't get bored sitting at home like she does now. She didn't break up and recycle that relationship once that I know of. She respected him in her own way throughout, and was careful about not to upset him etc. And according to her the guy was extremely shy and introverted, she's the opposite.

I don't get it, it's like a lot of her self destructive patterns were dormant during that time.

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

Do you know for a FACT it was 10 years? My ex bragged on her ex boyfriend too. He was an angel I could tell him anything! Blah blah it's all I heard. But guess what? She walked away from this "perfect guy" like he was nothing. My point is she probably wasn't being honest with you. It's all mind games with them in my opinion

Yeah man, I'm sure. I know about the lies etc but this was different. She even followed this guyto from the coast where she grew up all the way to the central part of the country when he got a better job opportunity.

Her friends used to tell her she has no taste, cause he wasn't very good looking, but she stuck with him still.

[bAlex]

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

We're entirely guessing, of course, but all the behaviors of a borderline are a response to fear of abandonment and/or fear of engulfment, centered on an attachment, so if that attachment was relatively stable, the behaviors could be relatively minimized.  It's impossible to see inside that relationship, but he could have had a personality disorder of his own, or been highly codependent, or there really wasn't a relationship there, it was a facade, with both of them getting their needs met elsewhere.  And the main point of course is what does that mean to you and your detachment Alex?

Well as for my detachment, I don't know. I'm taking some things apart and I do see a pattern. It's just something I was wondering about. They don't seem like a good match, but they lasted the longest, it's odd. You bring up some good points.

[KarmasReal]

bAlex,

Your post sounds familiar to me and so does some of your thoughts. I'll share some similarities and my own thoughts.

Did my exBPD talk about her exes, yes, all the freaking time, it was weird to me, I never mentioned mine but I took it as whatever but looking back it was strange.

My exBPD's longest relationship was about 5 years. She was married and had a kid with him. They were separating when we met. She told me he cheated constantly, knowing now he was probably looking for someone more stable, because she was doing it to him, or both. She also said he never took her anywhere, knowing now it was because of how she acts in public especially with a SO. I myself was becoming just like him at 1.5 years in.

Besides the 5 year marriage, her other 3 long term relationships all seemed to be right around 1.5-2 years. There was recycles and breakups in all that I know of. Her and her ex husband separated at least twice before this final one. Her college boyfriend didn't date her a year and a half they dated 8 months broke up for 5 or 6 and dated 8 more. I didn't find this last part out til much later.

So is she lying about 10 years probably not, is she leaving out stuff, I would say probably. A BPD can't change then unchange, that 10 years could have been full of fights, cheatings, recycles, or even breakups of months or years. Bpd's like changing history to make it sound how they want. Just like my ex I learned a lot about her past relationships over the time we spent together and it became pretty clear she was just as horrible to them as she was to me.

Her going off without them to party, her making them jealous, her cheating, her drinking, her inappropriate behavior, they don't change! Even her cycles of relationships seem very similar to me, I don't know all the past recycles but they all fall within time frames. Just like my recycles with her did.

College boyfriend 8 months, then breakup, then 8 months then breakup.

Ex husband made it a year they separated another year or so another separation, and this final divorce. These are just the ones I know about too. She always made it sound as if it were his fault, so I'll never know the full story.

And my relationship pattern 3 months of good times, 3 months of worse times and drama, then a 2 month break up, then 3 months of good, 3 months of bad, another separation/break up for around 2 months, then it was only about 2 months of good, a month of bad, and this break up is going on 2 months right now.

Basically they can hide themselves for a few months but they can't forever, will that time go up or a down a little bit depending, I'm sure, but it will basically always be the same. I'm sure you can notice patterns like this in your relationship and your exBPD exes relationship as well. So I highly doubt it was all roses that 10 years.

[bAlex]

Or be like my ex. The guy that left her was some upstanding citizen while the other 3 she left (including me) apparently all had some serious issues.

She doesn't think it's her when she is the common denominator with 4 very different men.

Yeah I know, same with her, it's always the guy's fault. Although she has dated some dodgy characters...

I'm actually seeing a pattern emerge with her. She jumps to a new relationship during any emotional low, that includes the latest breakup~>Then idealise ~>she gets strong and comfortable~> acts out ~>breakup~> recycle~> devalue~> contacts me~>discard~> emotional low ~> meets new guy~> repeat. Every damn time.

I kinda feel sorry for the new guy, he actually seems like

a decent guy. Inexperienced though, which is gonna make this even more painful. He has no idea how this woman is gonna crush his soul... pity.

[bAlex]

bAlex,

Your post sounds familiar to me and so does some of your thoughts. I'll share some similarities and my own thoughts.

Did my exBPD talk about her exes, yes, all the freaking time, it was weird to me, I never mentioned mine but I took it as whatever but looking back it was strange.

My exBPD's longest relationship was about 5 years. She was married and had a kid with him. They were separating when we met. She told me he cheated constantly, knowing now he was probably looking for someone more stable, because she was doing it to him, or both. She also said he never took her anywhere, knowing now it was because of how she acts in public especially with a SO. I myself was becoming just like him at 1.5 years in.

Besides the 5 year marriage, her other 3 long term relationships all seemed to be right around 1.5-2 years. There was recycles and breakups in all that I know of. Her and her ex husband separated at least twice before this final one. Her college boyfriend didn't date her a year and a half they dated 8 months broke up for 5 or 6 and dated 8 more. I didn't find this last part out til much later.

So is she lying about 10 years probably not, is she leaving out stuff, I would say probably. A BPD can't change then unchange, that 10 years could have been full of fights, cheatings, recycles, or even breakups of months or years. Bpd's like changing history to make it sound how they want. Just like my ex I learned a lot about her past relationships over the time we spent together and it became pretty clear she was just as horrible to them as she was to me.

Her going off without them to party, her making them jealous, her cheating, her drinking, her inappropriate behavior, they don't change! Even her cycles of relationships seem very similar to me, I don't know all the past recycles but they all fall within time frames. Just like my recycles with her did.

College boyfriend 8 months, then breakup, then 8 months then breakup.

Ex husband made it a year they separated another year or so another separation, and this final divorce. These are just the ones I know about too. She always made it sound as if it were his fault, so I'll never know the full story.

And my relationship pattern 3 months of good times, 3 months of worse times and drama, then a 2 month break up, then 3 months of good, 3 months of bad, another separation/break up for around 2 months, then it was only about 2 months of good, a month of bad, and this break up is going on 2 months right now.

Basically they can hide themselves for a few months but they can't forever, will that time go up or a down a little bit depending, I'm sure, but it will basically always be the same. I'm sure you can notice patterns like this in your relationship and your exBPD exes relationship as well. So I highly doubt it was all roses that 10 years.

Yeah the similarities are striking.

Thing is I know where I went wrong, what I did to make matters worse and what she did to cause it and why. I guess you're right, maybe it wasn't so good as she claims, I just find it interesting that it lasted that long. I mean 10 years is a big chunk of one's life... I guess a part of me is thinking that maybe they didn't have the same issues as we did, which doesn't make sense.

[leew2110]

i am one who lasted 10 year. and only for the first 6 month was it good. the rest of the time was constant break ups, arguments, etc. it was a roller coaster ride.

why did i last 10 year? coz i couldnt break free and believed it would eventually work out.

but there was a couple of long term splits as well as so many splits of a week or two.

she also told the new partners each time that it was me who was abusive and cheating, when in reality it was her doing this not me but she loves to play the victim to everyone.

shes with someone now and playing the victim once more to him.

he has no idea of what is to come for him and while i envy him the beginning, i pity him for what I know is coming.

[bAlex]

i am one who lasted 10 year. and only for the first 6 month was it good. the rest of the time was constant break ups, arguments, etc. it was a roller coaster ride.

why did i last 10 year? coz i couldnt break free and believed it would eventually work out.

but there was a couple of long term splits as well as so many splits of a week or two.

she also told the new partners each time that it was me who was abusive and cheating, when in reality it was her doing this not me but she loves to play the victim to everyone.

shes with someone now and playing the victim once more to him.

he has no idea of what is to come for him and while i envy him the beginning, i pity him for what I know is coming.

That's what I suspect happened to them as well, probably why he cheated. But according to her it was a "loving relationship for 10 years". I'm almost certain there were no recycles though. Maybe he was just a doormat the entire time, so there was no need for arguments if she always got her way?

[GreenEyedMonster]

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

We're entirely guessing, of course, but all the behaviors of a borderline are a response to fear of abandonment and/or fear of engulfment, centered on an attachment, so if that attachment was relatively stable, the behaviors could be relatively minimized.  It's impossible to see inside that relationship, but he could have had a personality disorder of his own, or been highly codependent, or there really wasn't a relationship there, it was a facade, with both of them getting their needs met elsewhere.  And the main point of course is what does that mean to you and your detachment Alex?

Well as for my detachment, I don't know. I'm taking some things apart and I do see a pattern. It's just something I was wondering about. They don't seem like a good match, but they lasted the longest, it's odd. You bring up some good points.

This is actually not surprising at all.

For whatever reason, this man did not trigger her abandonment fears.  It could have been that he was codependent, or maybe he just had few interests or investments of his own, so that she felt like she was the only thing that mattered in his life.  Maybe he was not a very desirable partner, so she felt secure that he wouldn't cheat.  Maybe she loved him less than she loved other partners, making the anticipated pain of abandonment less than it was with other people.  Somehow, he made the risk to her feel minimal, which is why it lasted. 

I think it's really unfair to assume that she's lying about it because she has BPD, in absence of other evidence.  Lying is a pattern that emerges with some pwBPD, but it isn't a diagnostic criterion for the disorder.  We have to be careful when we assume that all pwBPD are alike.  As an earlier poster said, lying is about fear and shame.  Would she have been afraid or ashamed to tell you something different about this relationship?

[bAlex]

Something was done right in that relationship, I just can't imagine what it was.

We're entirely guessing, of course, but all the behaviors of a borderline are a response to fear of abandonment and/or fear of engulfment, centered on an attachment, so if that attachment was relatively stable, the behaviors could be relatively minimized.  It's impossible to see inside that relationship, but he could have had a personality disorder of his own, or been highly codependent, or there really wasn't a relationship there, it was a facade, with both of them getting their needs met elsewhere.  And the main point of course is what does that mean to you and your detachment Alex?

Well as for my detachment, I don't know. I'm taking some things apart and I do see a pattern. It's just something I was wondering about. They don't seem like a good match, but they lasted the longest, it's odd. You bring up some good points.

This is actually not surprising at all.

For whatever reason, this man did not trigger her abandonment fears.  It could have been that he was codependent, or maybe he just had few interests or investments of his own, so that she felt like she was the only thing that mattered in his life.  Maybe he was not a very desirable partner, so she felt secure that he wouldn't cheat.  Maybe she loved him less than she loved other partners, making the anticipated pain of abandonment less than it was with other people.  Somehow, he made the risk to her feel minimal, which is why it lasted. 

I think it's really unfair to assume that she's lying about it because she has BPD, in absence of other evidence.  Lying is a pattern that emerges with some pwBPD, but it isn't a diagnostic criterion for the disorder.  We have to be careful when we assume that all pwBPD are alike.  As an earlier poster said, lying is about fear and shame.  Would she have been afraid or ashamed to tell you something different about this relationship?

Excellent points! And any one of them seems likely. Thanks for this.

[blackbirdsong]

Also, don't forget one more thing.

For BPD is all about the initial chase. They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak. As long as other person is not fully in r/s, pwBPD will dance idealization dance. At that time, when you are not providing "total and complete" love you are playing the role of distant parent, core trauma they need to heal. And they need this desperatly... .When you provide this, they will realize that it doesn't heal their trauma, of course not on concius level and that is when devaluation starts, from anger and despair.

So, we all here are hurt because we 'submitted', we offered them our love, but at the end they don't trust that love because they didn't experience it from one or both parents... .They want it but they don't have a rolemodel of love, so they cannot trust it and they are afraid... .They need to run... .

I belive those who don't 'submit' can last much longer because the chase is constantly on, BPD wants their love and they are not providning it... .

[bAlex]

Also, don't forget one more thing.

For BPD is all about the initial chase. They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak. As long as other person is not fully in r/s, pwBPD will dance idealization dance. At that time, when you are not providing "total and complete" love you are playing the role of distant parent, core trauma they need to heal. And they need this desperatly... .When you provide this, they will realize that it doesn't heal their trauma, of course not on concius level and that is when devaluation starts, from anger and despair.

So, we all here are hurt because we 'submitted', we offered them our love, but at the end they don't trust that love because they didn't experience it from one or both parents... .They want it but they don't have a rolemodel of love, so they cannot trust it and they are afraid... .They need to run... .

I belive those who don't 'submit' can last much longer because the chase is constantly on, BPD wants their love and they are not providning it... .

I've also thought of this. It's like they lose attraction / interest when you make it too easy. This actually happened to me. And aside from whatever problems we had this was the main reason for her leaving.

I once read somewhere that they don't want to be part of a group that would have them as a member. Because of those feelings of emptiness and self loathing it's important for them to look up to you. You need to be better in her eyes, as soon as that dynamic shifts or she gets the idea that you love her more, you're no longer better and it's game over.

It's funny because for a good long while I thought the only way she's ever gonna be happy is to be with someone who doesn't love her. And I'm sorry to say it, but if that ever happens and she gets older and less desirable to her SO, she's gonna be the one dealing with the discard. I think she's relying on her looks way too much to keep guys around instead of learning to be a good partner. Those looks can't last forever.

Excellent point btw, it's easy to forget this.

[fromheeltoheal]

They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak.

Well, if someone is primarily a borderline, that is the point when fear of engulfment reaches its peak; a borderline's continual focus, unconsciously, is to balance the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment and straddle the fence between them, which is always moving.  Now if someone is primarily narcissistic, it's about chasing narcissistic supply, and once the relationship is established and the borderline/narcissist is no longer considered the most amazing person in the universe by their partner, the narcissistic supply dries up, so off they go in search of new supply.

[bAlex]

They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak.

Well, if someone is primarily a borderline, that is the point when fear of engulfment reaches its peak; a borderline's continual focus, unconsciously, is to balance the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment and straddle the fence between them, which is always moving.  Now if someone is primarily narcissistic, it's about chasing narcissistic supply, and once the relationship is established and the borderline/narcissist is no longer considered the most amazing person in the universe by their partner, the narcissistic supply dries up, so off they go in search of new supply.

Ok so it's safe to say that her actions are deliberate to keep the relationship from becoming either too intimate or too distant? By actions I mean deliberately making you jealous, ignoring your needs, denying things, doing things you specifically asked her not to etc.

In eccence she needs you to love her enough to not leave but also "hate" her just enough to not get too close.

Is that correct?

[fromheeltoheal]

They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak.

Well, if someone is primarily a borderline, that is the point when fear of engulfment reaches its peak; a borderline's continual focus, unconsciously, is to balance the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment and straddle the fence between them, which is always moving.  Now if someone is primarily narcissistic, it's about chasing narcissistic supply, and once the relationship is established and the borderline/narcissist is no longer considered the most amazing person in the universe by their partner, the narcissistic supply dries up, so off they go in search of new supply.

Ok so it's safe to say that her actions are deliberate to keep the relationship from becoming either too intimate or too distant? By actions I mean deliberately making you jealous, ignoring your needs, denying things, doing things you specifically asked her not to etc.

In eccence she needs you to love her enough to not leave but also "hate" her just enough to not get too close.

Is that correct?

Sort of.  A personality disorder develops when something happens in normal development, when order becomes disorder, when someone doesn't go through the 'normal' process of becoming a person with a self of their own.  That happens in the first few years of life, before cognitive thought is possible, so it gets literally hardwired into the personality without question or analysis.

So what it shows up as for a borderline is feelings, strong ones they can't soothe on their own.  There's the feeling that they will be abandoned, terrifying for someone who doesn't have a self of their own and needs to attach to someone to literally exist, and the feeling of engulfment, getting so close to someone that they will literally disappear into them, another reaction to not having a self of their own.

So it's not deliberate, it's a response to strong feelings a borderline can't soothe any other way initially, but of course if anyone practices something for decades they're going to get pretty good at it, so it can seem malicious when a tool that has worked before is used again.  But the genesis of all of that are strong emotions that a borderline has no idea where they came from or what they mean, they just need to be dealt with, soothed.  Sucky way to live, and it's not a borderline's fault they're wired that way.

[bAlex]

They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak.

Well, if someone is primarily a borderline, that is the point when fear of engulfment reaches its peak; a borderline's continual focus, unconsciously, is to balance the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment and straddle the fence between them, which is always moving.  Now if someone is primarily narcissistic, it's about chasing narcissistic supply, and once the relationship is established and the borderline/narcissist is no longer considered the most amazing person in the universe by their partner, the narcissistic supply dries up, so off they go in search of new supply.

Ok so it's safe to say that her actions are deliberate to keep the relationship from becoming either too intimate or too distant? By actions I mean deliberately making you jealous, ignoring your needs, denying things, doing things you specifically asked her not to etc.

In eccence she needs you to love her enough to not leave but also "hate" her just enough to not get too close.

Is that correct?

Sort of.  A personality disorder develops when something happens in normal development, when order becomes disorder, when someone doesn't go through the 'normal' process of becoming a person with a self of their own.  That happens in the first few years of life, before cognitive thought is possible, so it gets literally hardwired into the personality without question or analysis.

So what it shows up as for a borderline is feelings, strong ones they can't soothe on their own.  There's the feeling that they will be abandoned, terrifying for someone who doesn't have a self of their own and needs to attach to someone to literally exist, and the feeling of engulfment, getting so close to someone that they will literally disappear into them, another reaction to not having a self of their own.

So it's not deliberate, it's a response to strong feelings a borderline can't soothe any other way initially, but of course if anyone practices something for decades they're going to get pretty good at it, so it can seem malicious when a tool that has worked before is used again.  But the genesis of all of that are strong emotions that a borderline has no idea where they came from or what they mean, they just need to be dealt with, soothed.  Sucky way to live, and it's not a borderline's fault they're wired that way.

So they have no idea why they do it, or that they are doing it for any specific reason? It's completely unconscious?

[fromheeltoheal]

So they have no idea why they do it, or that they are doing it for any specific reason? It's completely unconscious?

The specific reason is to feel better, to manage strong emotions, but the reasons for those strong emotions are a mystery to a borderline, it's just 'who they are'. 

Speaking standard BPD here, and as we know everyone's different, although when we all notice the same traits, time and time again, on thread after thread on this site, it makes sense to work backwards from the common traits to their source; folks much more qualified than us have done that, which is what I'm sharing here.  Apply as applicable.

[bAlex]

So they have no idea why they do it, or that they are doing it for any specific reason? It's completely unconscious?

The specific reason is to feel better, to manage strong emotions, but the reasons for those strong emotions are a mystery to a borderline, it's just 'who they are'. 

Speaking standard BPD here, and as we know everyone's different, although when we all notice the same traits, time and time again, on thread after thread on this site, it makes sense to work backwards from the common traits to their source; folks much more qualified than us have done that, which is what I'm sharing here.  Apply as applicable.

The irony here is that that type of behaviour which makes them feel better is actually making us feel worse.

Man this stuff's a mess...

[fromheeltoheal]

The irony here is that that type of behaviour which makes them feel better is actually making us feel worse.

Man this stuff's a mess...

Hurt people hurt people.

[FlyFish]

I've also thought of this. It's like they lose attraction / interest when you make it too easy. This actually happened to me. And aside from whatever problems we had this was the main reason for her leaving.

Very true. This hit home for me. during the final discard when I was trying to figure out what the **** was going on my exuBPDgf told me "I was too easy to love"... .AS IF THIS IS A BAD QUALITY! So frustrating. I do not believe my uexBPDgf was ever comfortable in a relaxed state. There had to be chaos. My guess is this is fairly universal for BPDs. It is truly sad. The times we felt comfortable and relaxed with each other (how a normal relationship should be) were few and far between as she felt this was unnatural and quickly distanced and disassociated just to return and try again. She also would instigate fights and try to draw anger out of me which I never succumbed to. She asked me "Why do you never fight with me?"... .Well, my darling, it's because I know no good will come form it. 

[Rayban]

They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak.

Well, if someone is primarily a borderline, that is the point when fear of engulfment reaches its peak; a borderline's continual focus, unconsciously, is to balance the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment and straddle the fence between them, which is always moving.  Now if someone is primarily narcissistic, it's about chasing narcissistic supply, and once the relationship is established and the borderline/narcissist is no longer considered the most amazing person in the universe by their partner, the narcissistic supply dries up, so off they go in search of new supply.

I found this many times after spending the night with my ex. Basically in the evening she would be on her best behavior, even asking several times if I was staying. She could not stand to be alone and needed to be cuddled and held for long moments. This would lead to making love.

In the morning, she would become a different person. Having achieved having someone their to sooth her for the night, she defended against intimacy, by becoming argumentative, sometimes if dismissive of whatever I had to say. She would find faults with me. I didn't hold her long enough, or I fell asleep to quickly after, or I didn't let her get a good nights sleep. All these things would confuse me. Makes sense in terms of fear of abandonment/intimacy.

[GreenEyedMonster]

They will idealize you until you 'submit', when they feel that you are 100% in the relationship - THAT is the point when abandonment fear reaches its peak.

Well, if someone is primarily a borderline, that is the point when fear of engulfment reaches its peak; a borderline's continual focus, unconsciously, is to balance the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment and straddle the fence between them, which is always moving.  Now if someone is primarily narcissistic, it's about chasing narcissistic supply, and once the relationship is established and the borderline/narcissist is no longer considered the most amazing person in the universe by their partner, the narcissistic supply dries up, so off they go in search of new supply.

I found this many times after spending the night with my ex. Basically in the evening she would be on her best behavior, even asking several times if I was staying. She could not stand to be alone and needed to be cuddled and held for long moments. This would lead to making love.

In the morning, she would become a different person. Having achieved having someone their to sooth her for the night, she defended against intimacy, by becoming argumentative, sometimes if dismissive of whatever I had to say. She would find faults with me. I didn't hold her long enough, or I fell asleep to quickly after, or I didn't let her get a good nights sleep. All these things would confuse me. Makes sense in terms of fear of abandonment/intimacy.

I was in a relationship with someone who would get up in the morning after an intimate evening and threaten to terminate the relationship for whatever reason.  I still have almost PTSD-like reactions to having an evening like that with someone, because I associate it with them bailing the next morning.  You'd be surprised how much something like that can haunt a person who has experience that kind of trauma.  It's as if having something good only makes you think of how you're going to lose it.  I am constantly surprised by the things I associated with trauma in past relationships.  Our exBPDs probably have longer lists than we do.